Madara turning "evil"

[Honest Criminal]

Madara was still kind of an asshole as a kid though. So, I think he'll stay evil tbh.

 

[Aquaglow]

Madara is not evil he is "HOT"!

 

[Six Paths of Logic]

There is one thing I have been wondering about. Obito started out as a nice guy - then he met Madara and got talked into becoming a villain. Nagato started out as a nice guy - then he met Obito and got talked into becoming a villain.

Of course, there were also events that provided the ground for their change (Rin's death, Yahiko's death), but it was ultimately the work of someone brainwashing them to his course.

Now, think about this: Madara started out as a nice guy. Yes, he always quarreled with Hashirama, but in the end, he cofounded Konoha and seemed content even if Hashi became Hokage and not him. He had no ambitions. And then, he suddenly defects from Konoha, becomes a crazed lunatic and wants to fullfill the moon's eye plan.

That rapid change of heart doesn't really fit all his previous life's behaviour. It feels as if he also might have met someone who told him about the plan and talked him into all his, just like he did with Obito and Obito did with Nagato.

So, if Kishi wanted to, where is room to install another villain who is behind this all (someone like the elder son). I'm not saying this is the case, but it could be possible.

Thoughts?

I guess u can call them "villains" and Madara isnt a lunatic

That mystery villain is Kishimoto himself.

Lmfao

Yes, Izuna's death was probably the event (or one of the events) that founded his change, as was Rin's and Yahiko's death to Obito and Nagato, but he didn't become a lunatic after Izuna died. It happened much later, after he had seemingly come to terms with Izuna's death. It's as if someone has told him about the moon's eye plan and then brought Izuna's death up again as a means to corrupt Madara...

Nah, Madara deciphered the Uchiha stone tablet with his EMS, and realized that history (war, deaths, battles, etc.) was repeating itself and wanted to change it

But would someone who is basically contempt with his present situation really become a villain bend on ending the world as we know it just through reading some ancient story on a tablet? It's a bit farfetched.

As Madara mentioned in chapter 646 :

Spoiler

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and

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Madara fell into utter despair.

Your theory creates an infinite chain of evil douche bags.

You're a douche bag

Madara was still kind of an asshole as a kid though. So, I think he'll stay evil tbh.

Lol, he wasnt an *******.

 

[RasenUchihaChaos]

He read the bloody tablet found out the truth went crazy when he found out the world and the lives of humanity was a lie !!!!!!!!!

 

[Bronze]

Your perspective is not correct.

Madara was born in the days of war, where he was forced to fight the enemy at the age of 10. Having to lose 4 brothers, the trust of his best friend, his dear brother Izuna dying, Uchiha clan's trust as leader and the trust of the whole village is what caused Madara to go on rage. Specifically after reading the Uchiha Tablets, discovering history's truth made Madara develop his character into evil war lord.​

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[Zol]

Your perspective is not correct.

Madara was born in the days of war, where he was forced to fight the enemy at the age of 10. Having to lose 4 brothers, the trust of his best friend, his dear brother Izuna dying, Uchiha clan's trust as leader and the trust of the whole village is what caused Madara to go on rage. Specifically after reading the Uchiha Tablets, discovering history's truth made Madara develop his character into evil war lord.​

​

No doubt he suffered many losses and hardships. The thing is, despite all these, he seemed contempt when he founded the village with Hashirama, he didn't seem to have some kind of world-ending-ambition at all. He only wanted to live with Hashi and everyone else in this village at peace. But then, the next moment, he went all "this reality is sh*t" and defected. It seemed so abrupt, Hashirama also didn't get why he suddenly changed.

Nagato also suffered heavily, but he wouldn't have become Pain if it weren't for Obito.

 

[Bronze]

No doubt he suffered many losses and hardships. The thing is, despite all these, he seemed contempt when he founded the village with Hashirama, he didn't seem to have some kind of world-ending-ambition at all. He only wanted to live with Hashi and everyone else in this village at peace. But then, the next moment, he went all "this reality is sh*t" and defected. It seemed so abrupt, Hashirama also didn't get why he suddenly changed.

Nagato also suffered heavily, but he wouldn't have become Pain if it weren't for Obito.

False. He defected from the village, foresaw Tobirama will kill the Uchiha clan.

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He changed because of Tobirama, loss of Uchiha's clan trust as well as reading the Uchiha Tablets. He had no reason to stay and no one will accept him.

 

[Zol]

False. He defected from the village, foresaw Tobirama will kill the Uchiha clan.

He changed because of Tobirama, loss of Uchiha's clan trust as well as reading the Uchiha Tablets. He had no reason to stay and no one will accept him.

Hm, yes, I reread the chapter before he defected, and his change wasn't as sudden as I remembered it to be.

Anyways, I was just thinking about if Kishi could write another villain into this if he wanted to. And if it leads into discussing Madara's personality and motives it's always a win

 

[shelke]

Evil is a highly relative term. Given the sordid politics of the hidden villages, Madara, somehow doesn't fit the term politically evil. He is an antagonist, but far from evil; that would be the Ninja System created by Tobirama, which every village adopted. In the end, Senju didn't hamper war, nor did they hem it in, instead, they created a nexus of never ending conflicts, further escalated by supplying Bijuu, when they simply would have been kept in containers in safe locations within Hidden Leaf- their existence known to few people and no one else.

 

[Zol]

Evil is a highly relative term. Given the sordid politics of the hidden villages, Madara, somehow doesn't fit the term politically evil. He is an antagonist, but far from evil; that would be the Ninja System created by Tobirama, which every village adopted. In the end, Senju didn't hamper war, nor did they hem it in, instead, they created a nexus of never ending conflicts, further escalated by supplying Bijuu, when they simply would have been kept in containers in safe locations within Hidden Leaf- their existence known to few people and no one else.

Of course "evil" is a relative term, especially in a story where important characters often aren't really shown in a cliche black or white manner. That's why I put "evil" in quotes (as it also was in that chapter where Madara defected).

But you are putting to much blame on the Senju there. The Uchiha, or every other clan for that matter, were no less involved in keeping the cycle going.

 

[shelke]

@Zol

Considering that it were the Uchiha who accepted the Senju Clan and not Tobirama, who carried on the cycle of hatred by limiting their political power, putting surveillance on them, when he had no right, shows otherwise. Whatever is happening right now, the Senju Clan should be the sole bearer of this burden. Had Tobirama accepted the Clan and not carried on with this despicable shenanigans, none of this would have transpired the way that it has.

His actions and political policies created people like Hizuren and Danzo that completed his will. They maintained their skewed political agenda, even driving a founder Clan out of the village. Then when they learned of the Coup - Uchiha had to fight back after 50 plus years of discrimination - in lieu of offering them their political rights, they used one of their own jingoistic pawn within the clan and eliminated them - heck, they didn't even spare the children.

 

[Zol]

@Zol

Considering that it were the Uchiha who accepted the Senju Clan and not Tobirama, who carried on the cycle of hatred by limiting their political power, putting surveillance on them, when he had no right, shows otherwise. Whatever is happening right now, the Senju Clan should be the sole bearer of this burden. Had Tobirama accepted the Clan and not carried on with this despicable shenanigans, none of this would have transpired the way that it has.

His actions and political policies created people like Hizuren and Danzo that completed his will. They maintained their skewed political agenda, even driving a founder Clan out of the village. Then when they learned of the Coup - Uchiha had to fight back after 50 plus years of discrimination - in lieu of offering them their political rights, they used one of their own jingoistic pawn within the clan and eliminated them - heck, they didn't even spare the children.

You are making things way too easy. It's not as simple as that. There were always hatred and suspicion through every clan village, nation etc., and there were always people who tried to settle things diplomatically, like Hashirama and Hiruzen.

 

[shelke]

^ Seems quite cut and dry to me. The hatred from the Uchiha was or should I say, they were galvanized into the Coup through the long-term discrimination, where the political system established by Tobirama and kept alive by the Senju Sympathizers never went in the favour of Uchiha Clan - a clan that ousted their on leader for peace and even selected a Senju as the first Hokage.

Hizuren, diplomatically? I would like to see a scan of him working out a diplomatic solution, given how he offered an innocent man's head instead of protecting his own people, he never lifted the surveillance, never tried Danzo for getting the Clan slaughtered so inhumanly, always gave him political immunity given his cruel methods of recruiting Children and then vying them against each other to the death, never lifting the Branch Family's status to anything meaningful ...

Which diplomacy and good-will from Hizuren are we talking about here again? As for Hashirama, then, he was well aware of his brother's stance on the Uchiha Clan and yet, he spat on the face of Diplomacy - a principle on which the Village was built and let him create a Militia system to create a village that amassed scattered clans to create even deadlier conflicts? Let's not even start on his Bijuu Supply ...

 

[Zol]

^ Seems quite cut and dry to me. The hatred from the Uchiha was or should I say, they were galvanized into the Coup through the long-term discrimination, where the political system established by Tobirama and kept alive by the Senju Sympathizers never went in the favour of Uchiha Clan - a clan that ousted their on leader for peace and even selected a Senju as the first Hokage.

Hizuren, diplomatically? I would like to see a scan of him working out a diplomatic solution, given how he offered an innocent man's head instead of protecting his own people, he never lifted the surveillance, never tried Danzo for getting the Clan slaughtered so inhumanly, always gave him political immunity given his cruel methods of recruiting Children and then vying them against each other to the death, never lifting the Branch Family's status to anything meaningful ...

Which diplomacy and good-will from Hizuren are we talking about here again?

He stepped down to achieve peace after he third sjinobi world war. He always tried to negotiate with the other villages, keeping the peace, where Danzo tried to ignite conflict. He didn't kill Danzo even after he tried to assasinate him because it was against his ideals. And he did know very little about the actual extent of Danzo's activities (root, the activities in Amegakure, hidden stone etc, his working with Orochimaru etc)...

 

[shelke]

^ It's kinda far-fetched as Itachi and Shisui were reporting to Danzo and Hizuren, and taking orders from them as well. It's very hard to believe Hizuren knew nothing about Hizuren's Root Practices, when Sasori and people outside the village called him the 'Darkness of the Shinobi' world and every Kage considered the guy evil.

Does it detract from his biased stance, considering his speech to Madara that he would kill anyone who threatened the existence of the village? Wasn't Tobirama doing just that? Staring a conflict whose repercussion would haunt Uchihas for decades? Let's not forget how Hizuren never tried Danzo for Treason - Uchiha Slaughter - and never gave Uchiha their rightful place in the political scenario?