Trends of Sasuke could use tsukyomi

[The Necromancer]

No dude. Enton is not a power that originates or lies within the Mangekyo. A common misconception is that Enton is the ability to control Amaterasu, this isn't true. Enton is an Advanced Nature Release. So far, one technique has been shown within this Nature Release, and that is Kagutsuchi. This is the technique that allows the user to manipulate Amaterasu. Enton is channeled through the eyes to perform Kagutsuchi, just like how Katon is channeled through the eyes to perform Amaterasu.

We know Kagutsuchi is the Mangekyo power and not Enton, since Enton has the suffix "-ton", along with all other Nature Releases, while Kagutsuchi follows the theme of Mangekyo powers having god-like names, as Kagutsuchi is the god of fire in Japanese mythology. Ever notice how there's never been an occasion Sasuke manipulated the flames without saying "Kagutsuchi" along with Enton?

Sasuke's powers with Mangekyo are the same as Itachi's: Tsukiyomi, Amaterasu, Susano'o, and Kagutsuchi. Before you guys say "Oh my God, how can they have four powers!", it was never stated there's a certain number of powers that a Mangekyo can have(Shisui had the same one in both eyes, and Obito's have two variants of one ability), and Itachi displayed Kagutsuchi when he put out the Amaterasu on Sasuke. However, Sasuke and Itachi's skills in Kagutsuchi and Tsukiyomi is reversed, with Itachi being vastly skilled in the Genjutsu, but Sasuke being better in the ninjutsu. I hope this clears it up.

Is.... is that not essentially what I just said but with more words...? :|

If I was unclear, what you said was essentially what I meant.

Enton works basically in the same way as Kisame's Shark Bullets being formed from his own Exploding Water Colliding Wave IMO.

 

[ANiMUS]

..............................

 

[HadouKage]

No MS useer has ever shown the ability of having four different powers at once.Itachi can't manipulate Amaterasu into shapes like Sasuke so he does'nt have Kagutsuchi.

^This.......

 

[Uchicha Macho]

No dude. Enton is not a power that originates or lies within the Mangekyo. A common misconception is that Enton is the ability to control Amaterasu, this isn't true. Enton is an Advanced Nature Release. So far, one technique has been shown within this Nature Release, and that is Kagutsuchi. This is the technique that allows the user to manipulate Amaterasu. Enton is channeled through the eyes to perform Kagutsuchi, just like how Katon is channeled through the eyes to perform Amaterasu.

We know Kagutsuchi is the Mangekyo power and not Enton, since Enton has the suffix "-ton", along with all other Nature Releases, while Kagutsuchi follows the theme of Mangekyo powers having god-like names, as Kagutsuchi is the god of fire in Japanese mythology. Ever notice how there's never been an occasion Sasuke manipulated the flames without saying "Kagutsuchi" along with Enton?

Sasuke's powers with Mangekyo are the same as Itachi's: Tsukiyomi, Amaterasu, Susano'o, and Kagutsuchi. Before you guys say "Oh my God, how can they have four powers!", it was never stated there's a certain number of powers that a Mangekyo can have(Shisui had the same one in both eyes, and Obito's have two variants of one ability), and Itachi displayed Kagutsuchi when he put out the Amaterasu on Sasuke. However, Sasuke and Itachi's skills in Kagutsuchi and Tsukiyomi is reversed, with Itachi being vastly skilled in the Genjutsu, but Sasuke being better in the ninjutsu. I hope this clears it up.

well said,i must agree with u

 

[Punk Hazard]

No MS useer has ever shown the ability of having four different powers at once.Itachi can't manipulate Amaterasu into shapes like Sasuke so he does'nt have Kagutsuchi.

Being able to put out the flames falls into the concept of manipulating them. Like I said, Sasuke is better in manipulating the flames, being able to both put them out and manipulating them into shapes, with Itachi being unable to do the latter. This is just like Itachi can manipulate the victim's perception of time within Tsukiyomi, but Sasuke cannot.

Care to show me a scan saying that there has to be three powers? I've already shown through Shisui's and Obito's eyes that there isn't a set rule for the powers, so what proof do you have to contradict my claim that they can have four powers? Kishi's word dictates to use Susano'o, you need Amaterasu and Tsukiyomi, so we know Sasuke has those three along with Kagutsuchi. Itachi could put out the flames, which fall under Kagutsuchi. That's two examples of having four powers right there.

Is.... is that not essentially what I just said but with more words...? :|

If I was unclear, what you said was essentially what I meant.

Enton works basically in the same way as Kisame's Shark Bullets being formed from his own Exploding Water Colliding Wave IMO.

Oh we're saying the same thing. I feel silly xD

 

[Yanks]

Is.... is that not essentially what I just said but with more words...? :|

If I was unclear, what you said was essentially what I meant.

Enton works basically in the same way as Kisame's Shark Bullets being formed from his own Exploding Water Colliding Wave IMO.

I'm sure he's able to use the Shark bullets with any other water source though. But Kagutsuchi is Sasuke's other MS ability which, along with Amaterasu, grants him susano'o

well said,i must agree with u

Well of course you agree with him, he's arguing the same thing as you

 

[HadouKage]

Being able to put out the flames falls into the concept of manipulating them. Like I said, Sasuke is better in manipulating the flames, being able to both put them out and manipulating them into shapes, with Itachi being unable to do the latter. This is just like Itachi can manipulate the victim's perception of time within Tsukiyomi, but Sasuke cannot.

Care to show me a scan saying that there has to be three powers? I've already shown through Shisui's and Obito's eyes that there isn't a set rule for the powers, so what proof do you have to contradict my claim that they can have four powers? Kishi's word dictates to use Susano'o, you need Amaterasu and Tsukiyomi, so we know Sasuke has those three along with Kagutsuchi. Itachi could put out the flames, which fall under Kagutsuchi. That's two examples of having four powers right there.


Oh we're saying the same thing. I feel silly xD

How is Kagtsuchi the equivalent of putting out the flames? Whenever Sasuke used it, it was always for attacking or defending, not putting it out

 

[Uchicha Macho]

I'm sure he's able to use the Shark bullets with any other water source though. But Kagutsuchi is Sasuke's other MS ability which, along with Amaterasu, grants him susano'o



Well of course you agree with him, he's arguing the same thing as you

you don't know our histories.We usually don't agree on topic,he explain my statement in more detail

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

Being able to put out the flames falls into the concept of manipulating them. Like I said, Sasuke is better in manipulating the flames, being able to both put them out and manipulating them into shapes, with Itachi being unable to do the latter. This is just like Itachi can manipulate the victim's perception of time within Tsukiyomi, but Sasuke cannot.

Care to show me a scan saying that there has to be three powers? I've already shown through Shisui's and Obito's eyes that there isn't a set rule for the powers, so what proof do you have to contradict my claim that they can have four powers? Kishi's word dictates to use Susano'o, you need Amaterasu and Tsukiyomi, so we know Sasuke has those three along with Kagutsuchi. Itachi could put out the flames, which fall under Kagutsuchi. That's two examples of having four powers right there.


Oh we're saying the same thing. I feel silly xD

And Kishi later said in order to awaken Susano you must unlock both MS powers in the eyes.Keyword "both" meaning there are only three abilities among all MS users.if Obito had both his eyes then he would be able to unlock Susanoo since his two versions of Kamui count as two powers.

 

[Yanks]

And Kishi later said in order to awaken Susano you must unlock both MS powers in the eyes.Keyword "both" meaning there are only three abilities among all MS users.if Obito had both his eyes then he would be able to unlock Susanoo since his two versions of Kamui count as two powers.

Why yes, yes they do

 

[Punk Hazard]

How is Kagtsuchi the equivalent of putting out the flames? Whenever Sasuke used it, it was always for attacking or defending, not putting it out

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Sasuke clutches his right eye, the eye that channels Kagutsuchi, after putting out the flames. Putting out the flames fall into the concept of manipulating them. Therefore, Kagutsuchi also allows him to put out the flames.

 

[scorezor]

eventhough there are proof,i still seeing people saying he cannot perform the jutsu .this irritate me alot

they have the most percentage of that right , sasuke can only do tsukuyomi for a few seconds , but he can't keep it at the level of itachi.

 

[Yanks]

they have the most percentage of that right , sasuke can only do tsukuyomi for a few seconds , but he can't keep it at the level of itachi.

Are you referring to the genjutsu that Sasuke placed on Bee? If so then that isn't Tsukuyomi because Itachi said only Uchiha can break it, and the eight tails was the one who took him out of the genjutsu

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Sasuke clutches his right eye, the eye that channels Kagutsuchi, after putting out the flames. Putting out the flames fall into the concept of manipulating them. Therefore, Kagutsuchi also allows him to put out the flames.

Which is an MS ability of its own ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[Punk Hazard]

And Kishi later said in order to awaken Susano you must unlock both MS powers in the eyes.Keyword "both" meaning there are only three abilities among all MS users.if Obito had both his eyes then he would be able to unlock Susanoo since his two versions of Kamui count as two powers.

Actually no, Kishi himself never said that. See, when Kishi said "You need Ama and Tsu for Sus", that was really Kishi telling us.

The whole "You just need two powers" thing was said once by one person, and that was Sasuke. Now, the thing is, Sasuke had the Mangekyo for like, a few weeks, and he hadn't even been near the the stone tablet, much less read it, until after he made that statement. Therefore, Sasuke isn't a credible source, he doesn't know what the **** he's talking about. Kishi on the other hand, I'm sure he knows what he's talking about. Remember, things characters say, even if it is Kishi making them say it, can be wrong. Remember Kisame assuming Hirudora was Ninjutsu, or Kakashi thinking Obito's phasing and teleporting were two powers prior to the war?

BTW, it's still one power, even if there is two variants. They're both the power of teleporting things to the Kamui dimension, though one can do it long range, and the other is short range.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Are you referring to the genjutsu that Sasuke placed on Bee? If so then that isn't Tsukuyomi because Itachi said only Uchiha can break it, and the eight tails was the one who took him out of the genjutsu



Which is an MS ability of its own ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Actually, a Jinchuriki being able to break out of Genjutsu because of their Bijuu isn't common knowledge, so it's unlikely Itachi knew that.

Yeah, it's one of his four MS abilities. That's what I've been saying this whole thread.

 

[scorezor]

Are you referring to the genjutsu that Sasuke placed on Bee? If so then that isn't Tsukuyomi because Itachi said only Uchiha can break it, and the eight tails was the one who took him out of the genjutsu

you don't read the manga , do you? i'm out.

 

[HadouKage]

Actually no, Kishi himself never said that. See, when Kishi said "You need Ama and Tsu for Sus", that was really Kishi telling us.

The whole "You just need two powers" thing was said once by one person, and that was Sasuke. Now, the thing is, Sasuke had the Mangekyo for like, a few weeks, and he hadn't even been near the the stone tablet, much less read it, until after he made that statement. Therefore, Sasuke isn't a credible source, he doesn't know what the **** he's talking about. Kishi on the other hand, I'm sure he knows what he's talking about. Remember, things characters say, even if it is Kishi making them say it, can be wrong. Remember Kisame assuming Hirudora was Ninjutsu, or Kakashi thinking Obito's phasing and teleporting were two powers prior to the war?

BTW, it's still one power, even if there is two variants. They're both the power of teleporting things to the Kamui dimension, though one can do it long range, and the other is short range.

The bold is speculation and doesn't make it true. By this logic, Obito cannot awaken Sussano


OT: I'm not to sure about the subject anyway, I need more proof from the manga

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

Actually no, Kishi himself never said that. See, when Kishi said "You need Ama and Tsu for Sus", that was really Kishi telling us.

The whole "You just need two powers" thing was said once by one person, and that was Sasuke. Now, the thing is, Sasuke had the Mangekyo for like, a few weeks, and he hadn't even been near the the stone tablet, much less read it, until after he made that statement. Therefore, Sasuke isn't a credible source, he doesn't know what the **** he's talking about. Kishi on the other hand, I'm sure he knows what he's talking about. Remember, things characters say, even if it is Kishi making them say it, can be wrong. Remember Kisame assuming Hirudora was Ninjutsu, or Kakashi thinking Obito's phasing and teleporting were two powers prior to the war?

BTW, it's still one power, even if there is two variants. They're both the power of teleporting things to the Kamui dimension, though one can do it long range, and the other is short range.

Kishi's words are the character's words since he writes the dialogue for them.If Tsuki and Ama were needed for Susanoo then every Susanoo user would have Yati and Totsuka as well since they were also included in the databook entry.At this point it's obvious that info was only for Itachi's Susanoo and that each MS user has their own unique powers.

 

[Draphsin]

No dude. Enton is not a power that originates or lies within the Mangekyo.

Yes it is, the names of every jutsu that Itachi & sasuke have used with the mangekyou:

Itachi: "tsukuyomi/Amaterasu/Susanoo"

Sasuke: "Amaterasu/Enton/Susanoo"

The jutsus mentioned are sasuke & itachi's known powers, saying that they have anything else is speculation.

A common misconception is that Enton is the ability to control Amaterasu, this isn't true. Enton is an Advanced Nature Release. So far, one technique has been shown within this Nature Release, and that is Kagutsuchi. This is the technique that allows the user to manipulate Amaterasu. Enton is channeled through the eyes to perform Kagutsuchi, just like how Katon is channeled through the eyes to perform Amaterasu.

"Enton" or "Blaze release" Is not an advanced nature release, If that were true then the black flames would spawn from nothing & using ama would be utterly redundant.

The fact that sasuke needs to first create the flames via amaterasu is proof that enton is simply manipulation of those flames.

Show me an advanced nature release that can't spawn it's nature release from nothing. Enton is simply the name of sasuke's ama manipulation, he can't manipulate black flames with enton if he has no ama in the first place.

We know Kagutsuchi is the Mangekyo power and not Enton, since Enton has the suffix "-ton", along with all other Nature Releases, while Kagutsuchi follows the theme of Mangekyo powers having god-like names, as Kagutsuchi is the god of fire in Japanese.

This doesnt mean anything, enton is what sasuke calls the manipulation of ama, if enton was an advanced nature then using ama to spawn the flames becomes redundant which is clearly not the case.

Enton: kagutsuchi is one of sasuke's jutsus, he can create orbs, swords, & arrows out of enton, according to you each of those jutsus are different MS powers.

Sasuke's powers with Mangekyo are the same as Itachi's: Tsukiyomi, Amaterasu, Susano'o, and Kagutsuchi. Before you guys say "Oh my God, how can they have four powers!", it was never stated there's a certain number of powers that a Mangekyo can have(Shisui had one in each eye, and Obito's have two variants of one ability), and Itachi displayed Kagutsuchi when he put out the Amaterasu on Sasuke. However, Sasuke and Itachi's skills in Kagutsuchi and Tsukiyomi is reversed, with Itachi being vastly skilled in the Genjutsu, but Sasuke being better in the ninjutsu. I hope this clears it up.

First: [

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] Three MS powers is the maximum amount of powers according to the manga.

& Itachi didn't use enton, all he did was put out amaterasu. Your reasoning:

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Sasuke clutches his right eye, the eye that channels Kagutsuchi, after putting out the flames. Putting out the flames fall into the concept of manipulating them. Therefore, Kagutsuchi also allows him to put out the flames.

This is like me saying that when sasuke used genjutsu on cee it was tsukuyomi because of the eye strain. Just because sasuke's right eye hurt afterwards doesnt mean that he used kagutsuchi to extinguish the flames.

Extinguishing ama is a low level form of control, just as sasuke's MS genjutsu is a low level genjutsu [compared to tsukuyomi], neither are tsuku/enton.

 

[itachi uchiha fiance]

we all know that he can use it.