[VS] Itachi VS Nagato
- Thread starter Icelerate
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I dont even remember madara being shown using genjutsu in battle can i get a chapter number so i can reread it. As far as i can remember the only time he is ever shown using genjutsu was to show obito he had implanted his rinnengan in obito giving the boy the ability to use the 6 paths. Correct me if im wrong but just because you have a certain doujutsu doesnt mean you automatically know and can use all the techniques possible with said doujutsu. So if obito never learned genjutsu and since pervy sage was his teacher im guessing he didnt how you expect him to use them? After all he didnt have access to the uchiha stone tablet like itachi, madara, and other uchiha. Plus as an uzumaki he is related to the senju(and retains enough of the sages senju DNA traits) to be able to rinnengan when given madara's eyes(and the uchiha DNA that comes along with them).
When was it stated that only 3 tomoe sharingan can copy? Itachi had a perfect susanoo yet he only had regualr MS not EMS or he wouldnt have been going blind in his fight with sauske before he died. also this
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wouldn't have happened. And your ignoring the fact that Itachi can switch from MS to his normal sharingan and back at will as shown during his encounter with asuma and kakashi. As he starts off with his normal one and uses the MS shortly after to escape the toad belly. And the fact that madara is shown changing his EMS into Rinnengan during his fight with the kages.
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the fact he asks if he did something to his body sugessts he didnt yet know if he had been tampered with,which to me implies the ability to change his EMS into rinnengan at will was something he knew of and could do before he put his eyes in pain. If anything when you level it up the new powers you gain access to are more powerful, for example when you unlock MS and the more powerful moves that come with it such as Tsukuyomi/Amaterasu/Sussanoo/kamui you no longer need to copy other peoples moves but that doesnt mean you can't do it anymore.I'm not saying he knows how to do all the jutsu possible to use with the rinnegan but as he has rinnegan the doujutsu of the sage of six paths which has been stated aloud him to use any technique as well as what allows the uchiha to copy them with their doujutsu, i can't think of a reason why could use genjutsu if had he bothered to learn, after all you dont need sharingan to master/counter genjutsu. Also i dont remember it ever being stated that rinnegan allows one to every technique except genjutsu. As i stated his sensei was pervy sage who himself didnt use genjutsu and had to rely on a ma and pa for the combined genjutsu attack that took down those bodies.
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I skimmed through this and found many errors
1) Transplanting Rinnegan doesn't give you uchiha DNA/blood
Kakashi had Obito's eyes, and both itachi and Kakashi confirmed that he did not have uchiha blood.
(Hence why tsukyomi finished him)
2) you need to have mastered ms to awaken Susanoo, because with this post your implying that Hebi Sasuke has Susanoo.
The power of uchiha is chakra in the brain releasing to the optic nerve, reflecting the sharingan a current levels.
So if you mastered the ms and awaken Susanoo, then get your eyes plucked, you can still use Susanoo.
(Because the chakra is from the brain)
3) Point being, genjustu beat Nagato pein twice, since then there has been no counter to such high level genjustu.
Itachi's genjustu are on another level, so he will lose to tsukyomi with the rinnegan (has no uchiha blood).
Tell me if I'm missing anything else...
Well Kakashi's eye didn't come from a direct relative of itachis so maybe thats what they meant when he said only one with the same blood(parents?)could break it as sauske(being itachi's brither) was able to. Also with zetsu saying it was a matter of skill to break out it could have something to with the fact sauske knew about and got to study the uchiha stone tablet and knew about tsukyomi through personal experience before he was able to escape while kakashi had no prior experience and didnt get to study the stone tablet. Maybe simply having uchiha blood isn't enough.
When and how did I imply Hebi Sasuke has Susanoo? I do remember when i said "when you unlock MS(by ms i mean Mangekyō Sharingan which sauske didnt have when in hebi) and the more powerful moves that come with it such as Tsukuyomi/Amaterasu/Sussanoo/kamui you no longer need to copy other peoples" Susanoo is formed through the materialisation of the user's chakra not based on vision like all other sharingan techniques but does that mean they can use all sharingan techniques or just that one since it was the only one shown to be usable without eyes(by itachi and madara).
I never said tsukyomi wouldnt work on pain just that he can use genjutsu. And like i said earlier yeah tsukyomi owns him since he only has one body in this vs and the uchiha dna from madara's eyes isnt closely related enough to break itachi's tsukyomi.
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slimreaper
Active member
^^
madara using genjutsu
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madara using genjutsu
I know this was unexpected of Nagato but he did get hit with Amaterasu
The only reason he even got back up is because he was edo he already lost an arm an all.
If Nagato coud of absorb the Amaterasu why didn't he? Amaterasu has a very strong chakra stated before
Itachi mid diff
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The only reason he even got back up is because he was edo he already lost an arm an all.
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If Nagato coud of absorb the Amaterasu why didn't he? Amaterasu has a very strong chakra stated before
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Itachi mid diff
So far only one person, sauske, has been shown to be ale to break free of itachi's tsukuyomi, which leads me to believe that when itachi says only someone who shares his bloodline(in my eye this could mean someone who has the same parents since then they would literally have the same bloodline) can break free of it. Plus i never said Nagato could break itachi's tsukuyomi with his rinnegan but that doesnt mean he has no uchiha dna. If he doesnt have uchiha dna how can he use the rinnegan at all? doesnt it require both uchiha and senju dna to use? isnt that the reason madara had hashirama cells implanted into himself? how can you transplant an uchiha eye into someone while not also implanting the uchiha dna that comes along with the eye? after all organs like eye balls have dna in them.
slimreaper
Active member
Well I would counter wit the fact the manga states nagato is from senju lineage
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and he must have got uchiha DNA somewhere as he was ale to manipulate the Gedō Mazō which madara stated could only be done with both the powers(from the dna?) of both Uchiha and senju
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.
slimreaper
Active member
When did it hurt nagato worse than madara? i recall madara being just as emancipated as nagato when he was attached to it. Also i dont remember the statue hurting nargato as much as he hurt himself by using almost all of his chakra and then using the last of it to ring back the people of the leaf. please correct me if im wrong about any of that.
1. No just anyone who is Uchiha, can break Tsukyomi:
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2. Okay, what exactly are you implying
3. Visual genjutsu work on pain too, because nagato is linked to his paths by vision.
Nagato doesn't have any uchiha blood at all, so he can't counter tsukyomi.
As long as your a born blood of the Uchiha clan, Tsukyomi can be resisted
Dude if you read your post, it says that Nagato is of senju lineage.
Also, Kakashi doesn't have uchiha and senju blood, yet he can use kamui correct?
So Nagato having the rinnegan, should be able to use the six path Justus.
Nagato couldn't control the statue properly because he lacked uchiha power/DNA, that's why it permanently damaged his face.
Even Orange mask Obito controlled Gedo mazou when extracting killerbee (later known to be a tentacle), with no problem.
1. Like i said maybe he literally mean of the same blood meaning the same parents/linage/bloodline. Is the a scan of someone besides sauske breaking it? or is that just your opinion that any uchiha can break it?
2.simply that nagato doesnt have full control over his rinnegan as madara who is the only other person besides sauske and minato that have a chance of escaping itachi's gentusu. So the point is nagato cant stop it.
3.Never said genjutsu didnt work on him.
yes I know he is of senju thats i brought it up in the first place and also why madara chose him for implantation of his rinnegan! Naguto didnt develop them himself so im agreeing saying he doesnt have as full control over it as madara the one who did develope them(as shown by madaras ability to free switch back and fourth between his EMS and rinnegan) If he didnt have senju blood how did he use the gedo statue to control the 6 paths for the 15+ years that hanzo has been dead for?
Why would kakashi need senju blood to use kamui? It's simply available because he unlocked his MS(something I never said you needed senju blood for). You only need senju blood if you are an uchiha trying to unlock the rinnegan.
Yeah remeber he used them to kill pervy sage and destoy the leaf village?
That couldnt have anything to do with the fact he was attached to the gedo statue for 15+ after danzos death? after all madara looked just as bad when he was attached to it.
oh right like how pain uses it to control the 6 paths of pain? or how he used it to extract the other 6 tailed beasts? or how he killed hanzo and his men with it? Destroyed the leaf using it?
and lastly I already agreed itachi wins with genjutsu so i dont know what your point is?
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1. No, just uchiha blood it is written there in fine print.
Any Uchiha by blood, doesn't matter which Uchiha they can break it.
2. Typo on the Kakashi part, it was suppose to be that Kakashi has no uchiha blood, yet he can still use kamui.
Example Nagato has no uchiha blood but can still use the rinnegan techniques provided with the eyes.
3. Pain himself didn't extract all 6 beast, it was an akatsuki effort.
Otherwise he would of died...
I have no idea what the six bodies rant is all about.
well by the context I'd say hes talking about showing his MS in the first scan and Tsukuyomi in the second.
Lets look at what happens on the first scan, it starts with Itachi saying "you are not related to the uchida. we are the true masters of the sharingan still.. your body is suitable for the eye.. but it does not contain any of our blood" then he continues "Do you know why the uchida clan is the most powerful and feared clan of all? I will show you the true powers of the Bloodline of the Sharingan masters!" this makes me think he's talking about his MS which is needed to preform Tsukyomi in the first place. And as Kakashi nor anyone else ever mentioned MS and it leads to itcahis most powerful jutsu(Tsukyomi included)that would lead me to believe that hes speaking about his MS which he assumes kakashi not being from the uchiha doesnt know about, and as no non-uchiha besides kakashi has even been shown or mentioned being able to use MS (except danzo who possessed uchiha DNA from all those eyes implanted in his arm as well as having senju inplanted in his body as well as not existing in the naruto universe until shippuden chapter 284 page 17 so im guessing he wasnt even thought of until way after those scans from the original naruto)/ Plus the fact that in the next scan shows Itachi saying "that is true only another sharingan user could challenge me... some resistance could be made to thise mage-sharingan. However this sharingan has a special eye jutsu. My illsusion jutsu "Tsukiyomi" cannot be beaten! Only a sharingan user with the same blood as me can defeat me.." And as kakashi [since danzo wasnt created yet] was the only non-uchiha to ever be shown or even mentioned possesing a sharingan or shown to be hit with Tsukyomi, and makes me think he is also including other uchiha in not being ale to break it since everyone else with it a sharingan is an uchiha. Plus i assume he used it on the uchiha durring his massacre of them and since not a single person has even been shown or stated to counter it except sauske(his 100% blood brother) that's what makes me think it has to be a sibling. Do you get what im saying?
when was it stated he would die if he did it by himself? All I remember them saying was it takes longer with less people
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