Why do people think the flashy power ups decide who wins a one on one confrontation?
lol, the strongest characters can be taken down. Ever heard of a bad match up? Without full intel on itachi, this is a bad match-up for Minato.
To expect him to activate SM quickly is comical. Didn't do it when he suspected he was fighting madara, he wouldn't do it now.
Really SM didn't do squat to this match up. I never imagined this fight going over a couple of minutes; the victor being decided very quickly. IC Minato and itachi end their fights ASAP... Because of this, the factors of Itachi's stamina never crossed my mind. Now, with Minato's power-up, I don't see SM being a deciding factor. Seeing this fight end relatively fast, I just don't see Minato using it before it's too late
Gonna be difficult to do with no arms though lol, still think it's bad writing if kishi doesn't show us that jutsu. Apart from that, I'm enjoying the new feats Minato is getting, I think this would be a good opportunity to show us what element he uses. He may not need hand signs to do some, if he has wind he may be able to shoot a projectile attack from his mouth without seals. That's just hopeful thinking though. Hopefully his arm regenerates, still the only revived Hokage who hasn't been killed yet
Honestly I think Minatos Spiralling Flash Howl Dance Particpate Formula (whatever it's called -_-) is just Minato and his clone constantly teleporting to the scattered kunai and barraging the opponent with an array of rasengans, causing heavy damage.
Nice analysis of Minato's newfound abilities, but unfortunately, none of it matters. Not in this fight. We have argued about this before Bogard and you should be aware of the arguments I used in the past. To save time, it hasn't changed. My stance on this fight is still based on my understanding of genjutsu and how it works, and with that understanding , how broken and impractical it is face a genjutsu user of Itachi's standards in a one versus one fight.
First of all you're already wrong here, since i've clearly showed in my OP that Minato does have methods to bypass Itachi's Susanoo if it was what you were referring to
Minato can also decide to summon Pa and Ma and finish Itachi with their sound based jutsus
Sasuke made us understand
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because of sound vibration. Well, Pa and Ma have
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(able to paralyse Pain summons). With this jutsu, it would be easy for SM Minato to paralyse Itachi and finish him either with his
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or
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or even something else in his arsenal.
We also know thanks to Kabuto, that
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, so Pa and Ma use this and he is done for:
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Unlike Kabuto's sage mode, toad sage mode increase their strength enormously to the point they can lift large summons as if it was nothing
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With this kind of strength, SM Minato would easily dispatch Itachi's Susanoo
Assuming your argument is that Minato will not make eye contact due to his genius level intelligence(though that in itself can be argued) it's not the only ace that Itachi would have up his sleeve.
No, he doesn't need to fight eyes close to win since like i've said a sensor can detect occular attacks by sensing build ups just like Obito, just like Nagato, just like Zetsu and so on
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It gives a decisive advantage to a sensor ninja to always know when a occular jutsu is about to be cast and in this case avoid it/counter it before the release
Itachi didn't make Naruto aware that he was in a genjutsu UNTIL he attempted to charge forward and resist. Until then, he simulated reality so well that naruto could not discern or tell that he was in one from the beginning.
This is the most important part, and where kishimoto screwed up with Genjutsu on a whole. It doesn't matter what the level of the genjutsu is. If it simulates reality perfectly, there is no way of knowing you are in one, until something out of the ordinary happens(Body dispersing into crows, sky turning red etc), or you have sharingan or another trained eye.
There are numerous ninja in this manga who have fallen to reality simulation genjutsu. Danzo, a trained war veteran, who had the eyes of a Genjutsu prodigy, was still unable to see through Sasuke's simulated genjutsu , until the very end when it was too late.(and might I tell you that Sasuke pales in comparison to what Itachi could do.) There have been more ninjas as well. Deidara and bee both also came close to death due to genjutsu of similar natures. Why do you think Kishimoto doesn't have this sort of genjutsu be used more often? Because's its broken, and no shounen manga writer wishes to see a character easily defeat characters in a few panel with such dull deceit and trickery..
I disagree with how the dusk crow genjutsu worked on Naruto, but whatever it's not really important, so i'll go to the main point.
Your paragraph here would have been an issue if Minato wasn't a sensor. Unfortunately it's not the case. You talked about numerous ninjas who were caught inside genjutsu like Orochimaru, but none of them besides C were sensors. And as for C himself, he already confirmed the only reason he was caught in one is due to distraction
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Himself couldn't believe he got caught in one simply because as a natural sensor, those kind of attacks are things he should have notice
Also, even in case a sensor is put under a genjutsu, unlike others, they aren't easy prey because they can still detect the opponent chakra and act accordingly
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The realistic genjutsu against a sensor is useless because they don't need normal means like eyes, ears, nose, touch, taste to notify a genjutsu. All they need is to notice a chakra disturbance, easy when you're a sensor
Just like C himself noticed the similarity in chakra between Sasuke's genjutsu and the one he used for his Susanoo
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So like you can see, the paragraph concerning the workings of reality genjutsu would have no meaning in this fight
Once minato is placed in this genjutsu, of which level and degree are unknown, considering it was never stated. It's just a matter of utilizing shunshin to close distance and slit his throat. An attack that could be done in less than 4 seconds. While Minato hasn't even realized he's in a genjutsu , and is standing comatose in the same spot.
Like i've mentioned above, it won't work the same way against a sensor because even in case they are put under a genjutsu, they would notice it quickly by noticing a disturbance in their own chakra flow.
Not only that, but they would also always follow the opponent's position due to their chakra as well
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Sensing and Sage mode cannot help Minato, considering he will never be able to tell when his own chakra is being manipulated until it's already being manipulated. It's the same reason shee was caught in genjtusu despite being an expert sensor, The same reason Kabuto hid his eyes despite having sage mode.
C perfectly managed to. He only got caught due to distraction
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He did analyse the chakra however despite being caught to the extent he knew it was exact the same Sasuke used for his Susanoo
As for Kabuto, i don't remember him having sensing ability. He only had perceptual ability [
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] This is basically an ability helping to predict danger. It was greatly increased in Kabuto's case, similar to Naruto's when he turns SM
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So Kabuto never had sensing ability to begin with. Also, Kabuto was more acting with prevention than anything else. With his perceptual ability, he had no reasons to try fighting otherwise
And this is just at the very beginning of the match, when the first lay eyes on each other, as he always does . Itachi is a smart man, Why play stamina games with a man that not only has ftg, but is also avoiding eye contact? It doesn't suit his style and certainely wouldn't happen.
Itachi is a master when it comes to such maneuvers like feints, distractions etc. Funny that all fall for Uchiha Genjutsu despite they have the knowledge.
1- Nagato got hit on purpose. He never wanted to fight for Kabuto especially not against Naruto to begin with
2- And which distraction will he create for that to work? Unlike C, Itachi would be Minato's lone opponent in this case on the contrary of Sasuke who had partners. It's because C was distracted because he made the mistake to concentrate himself for his partners, especially since he was given the task to search for other partners rather than concentrating in the fight
And like i've also mentioned, genjutsu won't be an issue even if Minato were caught in one(besides tsukuyomi of course)
1. Nevertheless, Nagato didn't react at Amaterasu, what would be the case if he sensed it. But he received it without feeling it.
2. Itachi has Kagebunshins, crows, Kunai and Shuriken (which Minato definitely can't sense since that isn't Chakra) and other Ninjutsu. Minato can't react to all that and avoid it with closed eyes and just by sensing. Making distractions is no problem for someone like Itachi, especially when the opponent can't look at him and must close his eyes in order to avoid all kind of Genjutsu, as we know Itachi can cast them on several ways (i.a. his finger, Crows).
3. What will Minato do if he is caught by a 3T Genjutsu or Dusk Crow Genjutsu? Has he feats suggesting he could break the Genjutsu? I recall what Jiraiya said, that, in order to break Genjutsu, you would need to disturb the Chakra in your brain with a stronger force than the Genjutsu has. Other Genjutsu than Tsukuyomi would be Sasuke's 3T Genjutsu, which completely paralyzed Shee and let him collapse within 2-3 seconds. Let alone what powerful Genjutsu the Mangekyo Sharingan possesses.
Amaterasu is instant:
Nagato didn't feel it before he received it
Nagato didn't sense Itachi's Susanoo which cut off his arm despite having sensor abilities
Shortly after Madara was revived, he suddenly received an Amaterasu from Sasuke
Kabuto, when being in Sage Mode (we know its benefits regarding sensing) couldn't react at Amaterasu, it was cast right before his feet
Furthermore, you can't sense what doesn't consist of Chakra or is used with, for example Shuriken and Kunai, latter even with bombs stick to it. Or sending an explosive clone in close combat with Minato, as latter can't see through clones, let alone sense with closed eyes it is one and explodes. Totsuka is a spiritual weapon, no Chakra, so its lightning fast strike can't be sensed as well - therefore Nagato fell for it, the smoke screen was a perfect counter to Nagato's vision, and here, Minato can't see as well. It's not like the sensor can sense every move of his opponent; he can only track his position, hence Jiraiya said that not even sensors could dodge effectively without seeing an attack.
Itachi is the winner here. Why? Because the idea of Minato fighting with closed eyes, tracking while fighting actively and avoiding all of Itachi's techniques and feints no matter whether Chakra based or not, is totally absurd.
Of course, neither of them stomps the other, they are around equal, that must be realized.
Itachi's Shuriken distractions are no problems at all. Minato can deploy a clone to back him up from a distance. Minato was able to deflect 20 Shuriken from 20 different directions with one toss of his own.
A clone can't do shit against Itachi. When Itachi proved his analytical battle skills, he won't stay near of a Kunai to which Minato can teleport himself. Kunai which are thrown at him can also be countered with a Kunai throwed at their path. Let a clone come near him and Susanoo smashes him. Or Itachi summons a bunch of crows which fly towards Minato to distract him. Let him open an eye and the Genjutsu is cast by the crow.
You make it sound too easy for Minato, Itachi is as well a genius.
Apart from maybe Tsunade, Itachi cannot "rape" any Hokage. He may beat a couple but they'd all give him a good fight, to think Itachi can low/mid diff Hashirama, Tobirama, Hiruzen or Minato is crazy.
In fact even Tsunade would be trouble, she showed against Madara what she's capable of against MS and Susanoo users.
Apart from maybe Tsunade, Itachi cannot "rape" any Hokage. He may beat a couple but they'd all give him a good fight, to think Itachi can low/mid diff Hashirama, Tobirama, Hiruzen or Minato is crazy.
In fact even Tsunade would be trouble, she showed against Madara what she's capable of against MS and Susanoo users.
I exaggerated at least. And if you honestly think Madara was even by slightest taking Tsunade serious, then you need to reread the fight. And she only did that with the help of Kages.
First of all you're already wrong here, since i've clearly showed in my OP that Minato does have methods to bypass Itachi's Susanoo if it was what you were referring to
Minato can also decide to summon Pa and Ma and finish Itachi with their sound based jutsus
Sasuke made us understand
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because of sound vibration. Well, Pa and Ma have
You must be registered for see links
(able to paralyse Pain summons). With this jutsu, it would be easy for SM Minato to paralyse Itachi and finish him either with his
You must be registered for see links
or
You must be registered for see links
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or even something else in his arsenal.
We also know thanks to Kabuto, that
You must be registered for see links
, so Pa and Ma use this and he is done for:
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
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Unlike Kabuto's sage mode, toad sage mode increase their strength enormously to the point they can lift large summons as if it was nothing
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With this kind of strength, SM Minato would easily dispatch Itachi's Susanoo
No, he doesn't need to fight eyes close to win since like i've said a sensor can detect occular attacks by sensing build ups just like Obito, just like Nagato, just like Zetsu and so on
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It gives a decisive advantage to a sensor ninja to always know when a occular jutsu is about to be cast and in this case avoid it/counter it before the release
I disagree with how the dusk crow genjutsu worked on Naruto, but whatever it's not really important, so i'll go to the main point.
Your paragraph here would have been an issue if Minato wasn't a sensor. Unfortunately it's not the case. You talked about numerous ninjas who were caught inside genjutsu like Orochimaru, but none of them besides C were sensors. And as for C himself, he already confirmed the only reason he was caught in one is due to distraction
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Himself couldn't believe he got caught in one simply because as a natural sensor, those kind of attacks are things he should have notice
Also, even in case a sensor is put under a genjutsu, unlike others, they aren't easy prey because they can still detect the opponent chakra and act accordingly
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The realistic genjutsu against a sensor is useless because they don't need normal means like eyes, ears, nose, touch, taste to notify a genjutsu. All they need is to notice a chakra disturbance, easy when you're a sensor
Just like C himself noticed the similarity in chakra between Sasuke's genjutsu and the one he used for his Susanoo
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So like you can see, the paragraph concerning the workings of reality genjutsu would have no meaning in this fight
Like i've mentioned above, it won't work the same way against a sensor because even in case they are put under a genjutsu, they would notice it quickly by noticing a disturbance in their own chakra flow.
Not only that, but they would also always follow the opponent's position due to their chakra as well
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C perfectly managed to. He only got caught due to distraction
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He did analyse the chakra however despite being caught to the extent he knew it was exact the same Sasuke used for his Susanoo
As for Kabuto, i don't remember him having sensing ability. He only had perceptual ability [
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] This is basically an ability helping to predict danger. It was greatly increased in Kabuto's case, similar to Naruto's when he turns SM
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So Kabuto never had sensing ability to begin with. Also, Kabuto was more acting with prevention than anything else. With his perceptual ability, he had no reasons to try fighting otherwise
As explained above, he doesn't need to. A sensor will always notice the build up, eyes close or not
I'll also once again show you this picture
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SM Naruto could see battlefields away with sensing alone. So the moment Minato enters SM, the eyes become total obsolete
So your argument is that Minato is somehow getting into sm at the start of the fight before Itachi can put him in that genjutsu?
That's not happening. You're also forgetting Minato has to thread chakra and first focus to utilize his sensing mode to begin with, and we know he doesn't always do that unless he has a reason to. And all of this goes right back to my original point, about Minato not even knowing he's in one from the beginning. This is still the start of the match we're talking here, When Minato is deciding to throw his kunai's . Shee was an observer in the fight, he was saying he was only caught because he was distracted, i.e He was was watching Sasuke's chakra state and should have seen when he casted the genjutsu, had juugo not been there. This isn't the case with Minato. He isn't sitting on some sidelines and watching itachi's every move, he's in the battle, just as he was against BlackZetsuObito. He will be distracted, even if it's just by itachi throwing some kunai at him. SM isn't going to help him
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Once he's in it, two seconds tops and Itachi can bring a kunai to his neck, just as he cut orochimaru's hand off. Minato will not realize in time. Even if he could sense it it when in it , he still has to start checking his chakra then try to break it , all of that isn't happening before Itachi can have his way.
I'm not arguing everything else, Such as amaterasu , because I don't need to. This is all that he needs to win the fight.
If you really want a "distraction" Itachi would need only summon susanno and leave its premise and have it fight Minato by itself, while Itachi throws shruiken from the back. He's already shown he doesn't need to fight inside Susanno
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More than enough to not give him a chance to sense, considering black zetsu obito had both kakashi and minato on the ropes without any such ability
A clone can't do shit against Itachi. When Itachi proved his analytical battle skills, he won't stay near of a Kunai to which Minato can teleport himself. Kunai which are thrown at him can also be countered with a Kunai throwed at their path. Let a clone come near him and Susanoo smashes him. Or Itachi summons a bunch of crows which fly towards Minato to distract him. Let him open an eye and the Genjutsu is cast by the crow.
You make it sound too easy for Minato, Itachi is as well a genius.
Lol bro, what has that got to do with anything I said. I merely said Minato's clone can cover him from blindspot Kunai strikes. I said nothing of hiraishin or outsmarting. On the defensive are we? Lol anyway i made my verdict -- no knowledge: itachi wins but minato wins full knowledge Imo. This match up has no end. They're more or less equal.
I exaggerated at least. And if you honestly think Madara was even by slightest taking Tsunade serious, then you need to reread the fight. And she only did that with the help of Kages.
At first, but Madara soon acknowledged her after she showed that she could heal without hand seals. Tsunade showed her physical strength against his Susanoo's, she can even crack them if she puts enough effort into it, she can tank a lot and continuosly regenerate.
She'd lose to Itachi of course but Madara is a lot stronger than Itachi, it wouldn't be a cake walk for Itachi.
And why is that? It doesn't even take him time at all to enter sage mode. He was in base here:
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Yet 2pages later, he was already in SM:
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Itachi's genjutsu is useless against someone whose speed is so fast for his eyes to track [
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], who can basically see everything with SM sensing [
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], who can sense any genjutsu release [
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], who can make clones [
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], who has toad partners [
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] [
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]
That's not happening. You're also forgetting Minato has to thread chakra and first focus to utilize his sensing mode to begin with, and we know he doesn't always do that unless he has a reason to.
There is no need for focus. As long as he kneed chakra, he senses. Not because he doesn't say anything while fighting that he doesn't sense chakra. Latest chapter confirms that during his battle against Jubito, he was able to measure his hermit chakra
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Comparing that to Madara's
And all of this goes right back to my original point, about Minato not even knowing he's in one from the beginning.
Why do you keep saying this? I already proved you how futile it is against a sensor. Minato is never caught in one
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It's useless even if it happened [
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]
On the contrary start of battle, a Itachi not using Susanoo could be casually blitzed [
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] [
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]
This is still the start of the match we're talking here, When Minato is deciding to throw his kunai's. Shee was an observer in the fight, he was saying he was only caught because he was distracted, i.e He was was watching Sasuke's chakra state and should have seen when he casted the genjutsu, had juugo not been there. This isn't the case with Minato. He isn't sitting on some sidelines and watching itachi's every move, he's in the battle, just as he was against BlackZetsuObito. He will be distracted, even if it's just by itachi throwing some kunai at him. SM isn't going to help him
Start of battle, Minato can also decide to summon partners, to use clones, to sense with instant SM sensing. Itachi has nothing on Minato on the genjutsu part
Once he's in it, two seconds tops and Itachi can bring a kunai to his neck, just as he cut orochimaru's hand off. Minato will not realize in time.
More like you know they are useless. To be honest i think you're grasping at straws here because your sole argument consist in the fact of Minato getting in a genjutsu start of battle. That already shows me you know you are losing in arguments here since Minato has much more to offer
You keep linking a scan regarding optical nerves and chakra. Noone ever stated the genjutsu was ocular. And you've yet to counter it, you keep clinging to the sensing argument, which isn't happening. Minato has to focus to sense, I don't know how hard it is to understand. Both kyuubi and him literally were so engrossed in battle, that he didn't notice his own son's kyuubi changing placing
A human has Chakra in his brain. Tobirama explains that Uchiha have a special Chakra in their brain which affects their eyes.
You can't compare Madara's level of sensing with Minato's. Does the eye consist of Chakra? Actually not, but Madara felt the type of the MS which Sasuke possess.
You can't compare Minato's sensing with that of Juubi's Jin, latter can't even be judged by human standards.
I love how you take the high calibre sensors as an example to show how Minato, while fighting actively, can sense the Chakra built up in the Uchiha's eye as he is going to use an instant technique.
Minato never displayed such a level of sensing skills; I can give you various examples of sensors who failed at this point.
