[Theory] Unveiling the Secret Technique Hashirama gave to Sasuke

[Mr Hiru]

Very Interesting + rep, [if it lets me that is]

opens new roads for the story to potentially explore

Thanks a lot. I really appreciate it.

i think that the chakra hashirama gave him is going to do the same thing to madara as what happened with danzo.. as long as it is enough to take control over one cell he can make the mukuton feed uncontrollably, creating alot of mukuton in the process but stopping madara.

heck maybe the "chakra parasite" is already inside him, it could have been transferred trough the sword madara stabbed sasuke with.

as long as madara would notice too late, (the parasite would take chakra from the mukuton in his cells like hashirama does in his sage mode (that is at least what i think happens when he uses sage mode.. he has a yin seal wich he could use to take control of the cells and thus making him able to control a more nourished mukuton) ) it could take over his body.

Another valid possibility. If Hashirama's DNA doesn't 'die' in Madara's body, it could take over. I like it .

...

I'll just bypass all your attempts to attack my persona or diminish the profile of this topic (including terms as fanboys, better than yours, seriously?, and others alike), since these is not the matter of this thread.

First, I would like to tell you that most of you like to consider only what the character that you like say. If you go back to when Hashirama and Madara were fighting, you will see that Hashirama failed on every assumptions he made until Madara got revived. Madara having reunited the two power has surpassed Hashirama. Second, Madara said that the two brother cannot stand anymore. Thus, you have two statement here: (1) hashirama thinking he has the antidote to Madara, and (2) Madara thinking he is far beyond their skills. As you can see, I will give more credits to Madara than to Hashirama by simply checking the outcome so far given.

I think your logic is good until the point where you stopped in point 2. I already know that Hashirama didn't know how to defeat Madara back then... but I bet he knows how to defeat 'himself' (destroying his own cells).

Also, telling that people knows everything about the opponent based only on the outcome of a battle is quite a narrow way of thinking... If you kill me without little talk with me you would never know how old am I, so you wouldn't know everything about me. But I know everything about me (at least more than you). This is the logic I'm applying to create this theory, because the basis of the 'current' Madara is that he is not only him... he has also Hashirama in his body.

So, as you can see, you also failed to analyze the context... because back then in VotE, Madara had only his own DNA, his own abilities... Hashirama wouldn't know anything about Madara. But now Hashirama has far more knowledge about the current Madara, because Hashirama is part of Madara (this means that Madara has properties in common with Hashirama).

Now, concerning your question, it does not make sense because you build up everything from your own opinion. As far as the action goes, Madara was filling something in his chest, and he spitted it out + we saw it. Why would you give another interpretation? Did Madara still felt heavy after ejecting the tools? see, the answer is no.

PS: Those who think the tools will play a role have better prediction than yours.

True and False. I'm creating an hypothesis based on manga facts. The hypothesis is an arbitrary group of statements that are based on historic data, events and experimentation.

Also, I like to think out of the box... so if I like to give it another interpretation, I just do it. Because ejecting the tools of the Sage just because he felt heavy, knowing that even Obito had the tools and didn't feel that sensation, is ilogical. That's a contradiction. I don't know if you realized about it... but I did.

Because it did not work. Because Madara beat Sasuke and Sasuke is dying. because Madara went on and became Juubi's Jinchuriki, a more perfect one. Because Hashirama said Juubito was stronger than him, and we know Madara is stronger than Juubito was.

See, there are two keys: Binding and Resemblance to Izuna. Go and read what Madara said to Sasuke: (1) He gave him ample time to do something, and (2) he does not care about being a brother, a parent, etc. This is the evidence that the Jutsu failed.

You shall remember the moment when Naruto was captured by Pain, and then Naruto turned Pain into stone. Pain, having the legendary Rinnegan, didn't realize about it until the moment he was turned into stone.

So... your evidence doesn't tell anything about the success or failure of Sasuke's attempt. Sasuke attacked Madara some chapters ago, are you counting that time for your reference as well? It doesn't have to be related to Hashirama's Jutsu.

See above. Madara is still up and running. he is even flying, a sign that the binding did not work if it was performed.


Well, look at him on the floor while checking Madara's flight to see the difference. I am wondering if you don't think the Jutsu was a poison with delayed effect. Seriously?

For your information, almost every poison around the world take time to cause damage, there are few examples of those that can cause death in few time. This is common sense.

Also, do you remember that Madara is the Juubi Jinchuuriki right? He could have some resistance. I'm exploring possibilities in here.

Just like all other fanboys, you guys clinging to dead action while the story is evolving. You will certainly complain later because Madara is too much powerful for the like of a binding Jutsus.

Please, bring strong proof to support your statements. Theory breaking doesn't work when you don't bring definite proof to break the main pillars of the theory... You indeed are telling that my interpretation is not good because yours is good... well, that is a fallacy.

Finally, I have an advice. This is a mere hypothesis... it may turn to be true or false... so the possibility to have an accurate outcome is on. So, please, stay humble, as I do.

 

[WoodElementUser]

I've Been Off this Site for so Long ....That i've even made me a Million Bucks in that time i was gone.....but for the habit of iti always check in to see whats what..but this thread is Awesome...Greatest put together theory ever...Its on another level ...You See i Was the Master visual Poster here...And now i retired from it...but i must say....Respect for All this...Its almost..Nostalgic...

Hashirama gave something to Sasuke... and this something is already affecting Madara.

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I knew that the current Madara had almost unlimited chakra, not because he was an edo tensei, but because he got some enhacements. So, what could be the cause of this heavy sensation?

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"Sages tools"? "Who cares?"? I don't think so... there is something that goes beyond these cocky words. The tools of the Sage are powerful weapons, there is no way Madara would toss these tools without a good reason.

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My friends, if you remember well, the Tools of the Sage consumes the user chakra. These treasures are powerful... way too powerful to be wielded by a common shinobi.

So, let's the discussion begin. My bet is that Madara is losing chakra reserves at a high rate, even having the bijuus inside. Moreover, I bet his body is losing his lifeforce.

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We know already about the chakra reserves needed to wield the treasure. Moreover, we know how stamina/chakra is produced... spiritual + physical energy.

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And the most important fact goes hand to hand with this other one... The Physical Energy is held in each cell of the shinobi.

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...this means that less living cells = less chakra.

If you followed me at this point, you should already get the reverse engineering I'm applying to decypher what's happening to Madara.

1) Madara threw the Sage's Tools
2) The Sage's Tools consumes way too much chakra
3) Obito did have the tools as well, but he didn't feel the heavy sensation in his chest

Deduction... Madara is losing chakra capacity... or better said, his physical energy is falling apart.

But... why the physical energy and not his spiritual energy as well?

The answer is: Foreshadow.

a) Sasuke's Dogma speaks about the two sons of the Sage

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It's important to understand that this chapter revealed that the Chakra has a Yin and a Yang as well, being the Yin the Spiritual Energy component, and the Yang the Physical Energy component.

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b) The Failed World gives a link between an Younger son succesor and an Elder son succesor.

Hashirama, the Succesor of the Younger Son, is giving Sasuke a Jutsu and some of his chakra... yes, tremendous source of Physical Energy.

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c) Mind... "To destroy the mind, you must attack the body"

Finally... the fact that Hashirama's Cells are used to maintain control over the Juubi.

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These things can't be discarded as coincidences.

...I'll be more specific about what I think happened after this:

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---

- ...The binding technique that Hashirama gave to Sasuke... I believe he transfered to Sasuke a jutsu to kill Hashirama's DNA wielded by Madara.

- Killing the Hashirama's cells would kill the huge sources of physical energy in Hashirama's cells inside Madara's body.

- This would reduce Madara's chakra capacity.

- Reducing chakra capacity means destroying the capacity to manage senjutsu chakra (there is the binding technique).

And for those who are kind of kinky about the series, you can do your own research: this could mean to destroy the ability to be a Jinchuuriki, since Jinchuuriki NEEDS strong bodies full of lifeforce to supress chakra. Madara would also lose control over the tailed beasts.

Thank for you for reading this theory. I'll be very interested to ask for your thoughts.

 

[Mr Hiru]

I've Been Off this Site for so Long ....That i've even made me a Million Bucks in that time i was gone.....but for the habit of iti always check in to see whats what..but this thread is Awesome...Greatest put together theory ever...Its on another level ...You See i Was the Master visual Poster here...And now i retired from it...but i must say....Respect for All this...Its almost..Nostalgic...

Thank you for your kind words, dear sir. I'm glad you liked this hypothesis.

 

[WoodElementUser]

So I will be the First to Say this to You..NO I .THANK YOU>For Now i have the Encouragement to Continue My Epicness..

Thank you for your kind words, dear sir. I'm glad you liked this hypothesis.

 

[Honord Sage]

Madara has the Uchiha arrogance curs on Him,He just gave Naruto the tool for Him to survive,The Gold and Silver Brother ting and yang from Kurama and chakra from the 8 arm and a way to take all the Tail Beast away from Madara. Thats why the Uchiha are so Dumb in the end their Egos dose them in.

 

[Seventh Sama]

hmm.... seems possible. great theory

 

[Imm0rtal bAstard]

This is a good speculation, but how did Sasuke use the technique on Madara then?
He hasn't gotten the chance - he was stabbed before getting to do so.
Also, if he had a plan in motion, he doesn't act like it. He is on the verge of death.

The weapons do consume huge amounts of chakra, that is why Madara chose to get rid of them. They are useless, because they take up too much chakra and also if they were to work, remember, they had to be used in combination with the other weapons which he does not possess. Currently, Madara is so OP he doesn't need the weapons to win, so he throws them away.

Now, it is a fact that Obito had the weapons inside him but without them he wouldn't be able to have a complete Juubi.
Madara already has the Hachibi and a bigger part of Kyuubi, so he doesn't need that partial chakra to sustain a complete Juubi.
It would make sense that they become undesirable.
Therefore, it has nothing to do with chakra deficiency.

The technique Hashirama has given Sasuke is probably one that binds/blocks senjutsu/destroy senju cells is not out of the question either.
He might have just given Sasuke part of his cells to use though. This would mean that he can be healed with them.
You should also remember that Hashirama wants this to get resolved in a peaceful manner, so we can assume that the technique he has given Sasuke is not one meant to kill Madara.

But I don't think it has been activated yet.

 

[romaine18]

Most nonsense I've heard for today.

 

[NaruSasuRival]

I think your logic is good until the point where you stopped in point 2. I already know that Hashirama didn't know how to defeat Madara back then... but I bet he knows how to defeat 'himself' (destroying his own cells).

Also, telling that people knows everything about the opponent based only on the outcome of a battle is quite a narrow way of thinking... If you kill me without little talk with me you would never know how old am I, so you wouldn't know everything about me. But I know everything about me (at least more than you). This is the logic I'm applying to create this theory, because the basis of the 'current' Madara is that he is not only him... he has also Hashirama in his body.

So, as you can see, you also failed to analyze the context... because back then in VotE, Madara had only his own DNA, his own abilities... Hashirama wouldn't know anything about Madara. But now Hashirama has far more knowledge about the current Madara, because Hashirama is part of Madara (this means that Madara has properties in common with Hashirama).

I think you don't quite understand what you are talking about. See, I am not even talking about VOTE. Rather, I am talking about the fight hashirama and Madara had in this war. Hashirama has not shown a single sign of knowing how to destroy his own cells. This fact exist only for the sake of your theory.

In case you don't know, Madara had Hashirama's cell when he was fighting Hashirama. Yet, Hashirama did not destroy these cells. Besides, Hashirama never talked about destroying any cell. Rather, he spoke of the Senjutsu chakra that Madara took from him. He even said clearly that the Senjutsu chakra will resonate with the chakra he gave to Sasuke, then using the juts he also gave Sasuke, Sasuke will bind Madara. Thus, the tactic is based on chakra, not cells. It is about binding, not destroying Madara or cells. This makes your theory pretty much weak because it is based on non-existent hypotheses.

True and False. I'm creating an hypothesis based on manga facts. The hypothesis is an arbitrary group of statements that are based on historic data, events and experimentation.

Also, I like to think out of the box... so if I like to give it another interpretation, I just do it. Because ejecting the tools of the Sage just because he felt heavy, knowing that even Obito had the tools and didn't feel that sensation, is ilogical. That's a contradiction. I don't know if you realized about it... but I did.

I don't call it thinking out of the box. It looks more like taking your head from a better box and placing it in an imaginary box. You are saying that Madara felt heaviness because of a certain damage going on while actually, he said why. You are disregarding the fact that after throwing the tools, he did not have anymore uneasiness.

Therefore, you are making up your hypotheses. Right now, Madara is healthy. Why would you make him sick if not for your own sake?

You shall remember the moment when Naruto was captured by Pain, and then Naruto turned Pain into stone. Pain, having the legendary Rinnegan, didn't realize about it until the moment he was turned into stone.

What does it have to do with this subject? Are you going to expect some random effect that are not even shown?
Basically, your argument is the same as saying, "you never know?". In this case, the forum can be filled with all type of BS where everyone write whatever they think because we never know what Kishi will do. Thus, we judge a theory based on its contents and the hypotheses.

So... your evidence doesn't tell anything about the success or failure of Sasuke's attempt. Sasuke attacked Madara some chapters ago, are you counting that time for your reference as well? It doesn't have to be related to Hashirama's Jutsu.

I am not counting anything. I am judging the validity of your theory and its hypotheses. I am giving my thoughts based on the facts that were given.

For your information, almost every poison around the world take time to cause damage, there are few examples of those that can cause death in few time. This is common sense.

Also, do you remember that Madara is the Juubi Jinchuuriki right? He could have some resistance. I'm exploring possibilities in here.

Are you trolling? Are you really thinking that a binding jutsu is a poison with delayed effect. Seriously, do you really thing poison can work on SenJuubiDara?

Please, bring strong proof to support your statements. Theory breaking doesn't work when you don't bring definite proof to break the main pillars of the theory... You indeed are telling that my interpretation is not good because yours is good... well, that is a fallacy.

Finally, I have an advice. This is a mere hypothesis... it may turn to be true or false... so the possibility to have an accurate outcome is on. So, please, stay humble, as I do.

My evidence is self-explanatory for people who think out of the box of their fan fictive wishes. It is plain and it say Madara is boss right now, up, and running. He is healthy looking Rikudo Juubidara while Sasuke is dying.

 

[-ahhimane-]

Your theory really makes sense but to say, it makes sense to a point.
Now I also believe that spitting those tools had to have something deep meaning instead of claiming it as Madara's arrogance. During the read my belief towards your theory also getting strengthened But there aren't any proof that the jutsu was used/activated because Madara didn't make any physical contact with Sasuke in order for the jutsu to get activated. Manga only showed Sasuke jump from the hawk but didn't reach the ground and was stabbed in heart in mid air.
Let's wait for Kishi to put some light on it.
=D =D

 

[Mr Hiru]

Madara has the Uchiha arrogance curs on Him,He just gave Naruto the tool for Him to survive,The Gold and Silver Brother ting and yang from Kurama and chakra from the 8 arm and a way to take all the Tail Beast away from Madara. Thats why the Uchiha are so Dumb in the end their Egos dose them in.

I agree to some extent about this. The Uchiha Clan have members with very arrogant personality.

hmm.... seems possible. great theory

Thanks for the supporting.

This is a good speculation, but how did Sasuke use the technique on Madara then?
He hasn't gotten the chance - he was stabbed before getting to do so.
Also, if he had a plan in motion, he doesn't act like it. He is on the verge of death.

The weapons do consume huge amounts of chakra, that is why Madara chose to get rid of them. They are useless, because they take up too much chakra and also if they were to work, remember, they had to be used in combination with the other weapons which he does not possess. Currently, Madara is so OP he doesn't need the weapons to win, so he throws them away.

Now, it is a fact that Obito had the weapons inside him but without them he wouldn't be able to have a complete Juubi.
Madara already has the Hachibi and a bigger part of Kyuubi, so he doesn't need that partial chakra to sustain a complete Juubi.
It would make sense that they become undesirable.
Therefore, it has nothing to do with chakra deficiency.

The technique Hashirama has given Sasuke is probably one that binds/blocks senjutsu/destroy senju cells is not out of the question either.
He might have just given Sasuke part of his cells to use though. This would mean that he can be healed with them.
You should also remember that Hashirama wants this to get resolved in a peaceful manner, so we can assume that the technique he has given Sasuke is not one meant to kill Madara.

But I don't think it has been activated yet.

I understand your point, and also I agree that the technique has not been fully activated. But this theory is not about killing Madara... it is just about killing the Hashirama's cells inside Madara, in order to bind Senjutsu chakra into the dead cells (just like how Sasori creates human marionettes with the original chakra bound to these marionettes).

Most nonsense I've heard for today.

Hmm... that's too bad for you.

I think you don't quite understand what you are talking about. See, I am not even talking about VOTE. Rather, I am talking about the fight hashirama and Madara had in this war. Hashirama has not shown a single sign of knowing how to destroy his own cells. This fact exist only for the sake of your theory.

In case you don't know, Madara had Hashirama's cell when he was fighting Hashirama. Yet, Hashirama did not destroy these cells. Besides, Hashirama never talked about destroying any cell. Rather, he spoke of the Senjutsu chakra that Madara took from him. He even said clearly that the Senjutsu chakra will resonate with the chakra he gave to Sasuke, then using the juts he also gave Sasuke, Sasuke will bind Madara. Thus, the tactic is based on chakra, not cells. It is about binding, not destroying Madara or cells. This makes your theory pretty much weak because it is based on non-existent hypotheses.



I don't call it thinking out of the box. It looks more like taking your head from a better box and placing it in an imaginary box. You are saying that Madara felt heaviness because of a certain damage going on while actually, he said why. You are disregarding the fact that after throwing the tools, he did not have anymore uneasiness.

Therefore, you are making up your hypotheses. Right now, Madara is healthy. Why would you make him sick if not for your own sake?



What does it have to do with this subject? Are you going to expect some random effect that are not even shown?
Basically, your argument is the same as saying, "you never know?". In this case, the forum can be filled with all type of BS where everyone write whatever they think because we never know what Kishi will do. Thus, we judge a theory based on its contents and the hypotheses.


I am not counting anything. I am judging the validity of your theory and its hypotheses. I am giving my thoughts based on the facts that were given.



Are you trolling? Are you really thinking that a binding jutsu is a poison with delayed effect. Seriously, do you really thing poison can work on SenJuubiDara?



My evidence is self-explanatory for people who think out of the box of their fan fictive wishes. It is plain and it say Madara is boss right now, up, and running. He is healthy looking Rikudo Juubidara while Sasuke is dying.

* sighs * You don't have enough solidness in your so called evidence to counter my point of view (that seems to be a bunch of fallacies, counting burden of proof, ad hominem, ad ignorantiam, and others). You don't even know how to validate a theory, since your rebuttal was not based on laws or hard logic (cause and effect, rather than just the effect), but in appearances. You're just conveniently saying that I had an opinion and I'm inventing things from nowhere... well, in that case theories could not exist because everyone makes them using minimal speculation. The only speculation I made was the possibility of Hashirama giving Sasuke a way to kill his DNA, and then I elaborated how could this be related to the binding. Everything else is just plain definition.

So, as you're dense enough and it seems you even enjoy being arrogant and attacking me with your complex of superiority, I'll just agree that we disagree.

Your theory really makes sense but to say, it makes sense to a point.
Now I also believe that spitting those tools had to have something deep meaning instead of claiming it as Madara's arrogance. During the read my belief towards your theory also getting strengthened But there aren't any proof that the jutsu was used/activated because Madara didn't make any physical contact with Sasuke in order for the jutsu to get activated. Manga only showed Sasuke jump from the hawk but didn't reach the ground and was stabbed in heart in mid air.
Let's wait for Kishi to put some light on it.
=D =D

I'm also waiting for revelations. We haven't seen any sign of the activation of the jutsu, but we indeed saw the possible effects when Madara threw the tools... chakra exhaustion is the answer in this theory, something that may be true or false.

But... I think it's dumb to think that Madara would throw these tools just due arrogance or a little heaviness. Even if the Uchiha are arrogant by nature, I don't think Madara would follow that pattern while being in middle of his biggest project... it is not plotwise.

People needs to see through the obvious...

 

[Draxus]

You should remove the spitting out the sage tools thing.

As powerful as the Sage's tools are, they have a very specific purpose... "Sealing things that can speak". What use would Madara have for a specialized sealing tool? So to him, yes, they are useless.

 

[Mr Hiru]

You should remove the spitting out the sage tools thing.

As powerful as the Sage's tools are, they have a very specific purpose... "Sealing things that can speak". What use would Madara have for a specialized sealing tool? So to him, yes, they are useless.

But if they are not in his hands, they could be used against him. No matter if they could do something or not, the fact is that these tools are dangerous, they could harm him.

This aside... if Obito didn't threw the tools, there shouldn't have any reason for Madara to do the same.

I just asked myself "why this difference?".

 

[Draxus]

But if they are not in his hands, they could be used against him. No matter if they could do something or not, the fact is that these tools are dangerous, they could harm him.

This aside... if Obito didn't threw the tools, there shouldn't have any reason for Madara to do the same.

I just asked myself "why this difference?".

Well Madara seems to know what they are, and probably knows not to say the word he says the most if someone has them. So I don't think it's likely they can be used against him directly.

For you 2nd point I would say it's because Obito, or rather the Gezo, was using the bijuu chakra in them, however this was pulled out by Naruto and Co, so is now just taking up space.

 

[Mr Hiru]

Well Madara seems to know what they are, and probably knows not to say the word he says the most if someone has them. So I don't think it's likely they can be used against him directly.

For you 2nd point I would say it's because Obito, or rather the Gezo, was using the bijuu chakra in them, however this was pulled out by Naruto and Co, so is now just taking up space.

I don't know man. Even if the case of Obito pointed towards the fact that there was chakra sealed inside, that doesn't removes the fact that the tools still consumes chakra.

So, Occam's Razor... Madara didn't have more motives than Obito to get rid of these tools. This move didn't make sense if we think just about 'blocked chest'.

 

[Draxus]

I don't know man. Even if the case of Obito pointed towards the fact that there was chakra sealed inside, that doesn't removes the fact that the tools still consumes chakra.

So, Occam's Razor... Madara didn't have more motives than Obito to get rid of these tools. This move didn't make sense if we think just about 'blocked chest'.

He said it was making him slower, so better to be rid of them. And USING the tools consumes energy, I don't see why just holding them would.

 

[Mr Hiru]

He said it was making him slower, so better to be rid of them. And USING the tools consumes energy, I don't see why just holding them would.

Look at Madara's reaction then. As I said, 'weight' is not a plotwise reason to get rid of the tools, that's dumb.