[Theory] Unveiling the Secret Technique Hashirama gave to Sasuke

[Mr Hiru]

Hashirama gave something to Sasuke... and this something is already affecting Madara.

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I knew that the current Madara had almost unlimited chakra, not because he was an edo tensei, but because he got some enhacements. So, what could be the cause of this heavy sensation?

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"Sages tools"? "Who cares?"? I don't think so... there is something that goes beyond these cocky words. The tools of the Sage are powerful weapons, there is no way Madara would toss these tools without a good reason.

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My friends, if you remember well, the Tools of the Sage consumes the user chakra. These treasures are powerful... way too powerful to be wielded by a common shinobi.

So, let's the discussion begin. My bet is that Madara is losing chakra reserves at a high rate, even having the bijuus inside. Moreover, I bet his body is losing his lifeforce.

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We know already about the chakra reserves needed to wield the treasure. Moreover, we know how stamina/chakra is produced... spiritual + physical energy.

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And the most important fact goes hand to hand with this other one... The Physical Energy is held in each cell of the shinobi.

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...this means that less living cells = less chakra.

If you followed me at this point, you should already get the reverse engineering I'm applying to decypher what's happening to Madara.

1) Madara threw the Sage's Tools
2) The Sage's Tools consumes way too much chakra
3) Obito did have the tools as well, but he didn't feel the heavy sensation in his chest

Deduction... Madara is losing chakra capacity... or better said, his physical energy is falling apart.

But... why the physical energy and not his spiritual energy as well?

The answer is: Foreshadow.

a) Sasuke's Dogma speaks about the two sons of the Sage

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It's important to understand that this chapter revealed that the Chakra has a Yin and a Yang as well, being the Yin the Spiritual Energy component, and the Yang the Physical Energy component.

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b) The Failed World gives a link between an Younger son succesor and an Elder son succesor.

Hashirama, the Succesor of the Younger Son, is giving Sasuke a Jutsu and some of his chakra... yes, tremendous source of Physical Energy.

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c) Mind... "To destroy the mind, you must attack the body"

Finally... the fact that Hashirama's Cells are used to maintain control over the Juubi.

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These things can't be discarded as coincidences.

...I'll be more specific about what I think happened after this:

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---

- ...The binding technique that Hashirama gave to Sasuke... I believe he transfered to Sasuke a jutsu to kill Hashirama's DNA wielded by Madara.

- Killing the Hashirama's cells would kill the huge sources of physical energy in Hashirama's cells inside Madara's body.

- This would reduce Madara's chakra capacity.

- Reducing chakra capacity means destroying the capacity to manage senjutsu chakra (there is the binding technique).

And for those who are kind of kinky about the series, you can do your own research: this could mean to destroy the ability to be a Jinchuuriki, since Jinchuuriki NEEDS strong bodies full of lifeforce to supress chakra. Madara would also lose control over the tailed beasts.

Thank for you for reading this theory. I'll be very interested to ask for your thoughts.

 

[Gerkak]

Interesting theory. Nice one

 

[nandachikara]

Nice theory man,but killing hashi's dna in madara wont make any difference at this point in time,what we need is a one shotting jutsu.

 

[Shalev]

Did i read this?

 

[Mr Hiru]

Interesting theory. Nice one

Thanks man, this is just a wild idea that came into my mind.

Nice theory man,but killing hashi's dna in madara wont make any difference at this point in time,what we need is a one shotting jutsu.

Thanks for the appreciation.

As for your comment: It depends. If the Jinchuuriki doesn't have a body to supress the beasts, the host loses control.

- The Jinchuuriki of the Kyuubi had to be an Uzumaki (the village of longetivity, full of lifeforce).
- The Jinchuuriki of the Hachibi were persons with strong bodies as well (Ask Fukai about this).
- The Jinchuuriki of the Ichibi was born premature, was the first of three brothers to meet a special prerequisite to become Jinchuuriki.
- Hashirama Senju used his own chakra to supress the tailed beasts chakra.

The common vertex connecting these hints: Yang. No Yang = No supression.

So, if Madara doesn't have the Yang of his body (Hashirama Senju DNA), the consequences would be very disasterous for him. He wouldn't be able to fight anyone, he even wouldn't be able to use his Rinnegan because the last one uses Senju DNA.

Did i read this?

I don't know man, I'm not in your mind Lol

 

[flyboyissac]

agree but even if this don't happen with madara madara charka is still being absord just like naruto in KCM I don't even think madara nor obito is in bjiuu mode,and I don't think the juubi would get absord so easy without a issuse behind it. madara basicly made the juubi look super weak

 

[Transcendence]

Not bad Hirudora. Very good recollection of manga evidence to support your claims. This makes sense as well, as Hashirama also said it would be in response to the Senjutsu that Madara took from Hashirama chapters ago.​

 

[Hipster Madara]

Might have something to do with his dna.

 

[WolfHaley]

But the gold and silver bros were able to wield all five at once, and their reserves are hardly comparable to Madara's.

 

[Mr Hiru]

Might have something to do with his dna.

That's what I hope

But the gold and silver bros were able to wield all five at once, and their reserves are hardly comparable to Madara's.

Madara had a common body. Without the help of Hashirama Senju's DNA, he wouldn't be able to become Jinchuuriki in first place, because he lacked the Lifeforce for this purpose.

Look, this is the proof:

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These cells are used to supress the Bijuu and have more control, physically.

Also, I already explained that the current Madara's Chakra is generated thanks to his Spiritual Energy and Hashirama's Senju Physical Energy. Without Hashirama Senju's Physical Energy, his chakra reserves would just drop to the levels he had in VotE.

In the other hand, the Ginkaku/Kinkaku brothers had the potential to become Jinchuuriki, and they were fed from Kurama's flesh, so obviously they had the Kyuubi's Chakra to control the tools, and a body able to control the tools, since they were supposed to be related to the Sage of Six Paths.

Summing it up: Under this theory, Senju DNA will be the weapon to defeat Madara.

 

[NaruSasuRival]

While you tried to make sense of everything you showed, I am sorry to tell you it does not make any sense at all. From physical energy, body cells, younger son, to Hashirama's cells within Madara, you don't make any sense. Hashirama explained clearly that he want Sasuke to bind Madara using a certain jutsus. unfortunately, Sasuke was the one to be bind by Madara, though most people like to ignore that fight. Clearly the meaning of the verb bind is as follows:

Spoiler

bind
bīnd/Submit
verb
1.
tie or fasten (something) tightly.
"floating bundles of logs bound together with ropes"
synonyms: tie (up), fasten (together), hold together, secure, make fast, attach; More
antonyms: untie, release
restrain (someone) by the tying up of hands and feet.
"the raider then bound and gagged Mr. Glenn"
wrap (something) tightly.
"her hair was bound up in a towel"
bandage (a wound).
"he cleaned the wound and bound it up with a clean dressing"
(of an object) be encircled by something, typically metal bands, in order to strengthen it.
"an ancient oak chest, bound with brass braces"
LINGUISTICS
(of a rule or set of grammatical conditions) determine the relationship between (coreferential noun phrases).
2.
cohere or cause to cohere in a single mass.
"mix the flour with the coconut and enough egg white to bind them"
cause (painting pigments) to form a smooth medium by mixing them with oil.
"use a white that is bound in linseed oil"
hold by chemical bonding.
"a protein in a form that can bind DNA"
combine with (a substance) through chemical bonding.
"these proteins have been reported to bind to calmodulin"
3.
cause (people) to feel united.
"the comradeship that had bound such a disparate bunch of young men together"
synonyms: unite, join, bond, knit together, draw together, yoke together More
antonyms: separate
cause someone to feel strongly attached to (a person or place).
"loosened the ties that had bound him to the university"
4.
formal
impose a legal or contractual obligation on.
"a party who signs a document will normally be bound by its terms"
indenture (someone) as an apprentice.
"he was bound apprentice at the age of sixteen"
formal
make a contractual or enforceable undertaking.
"the government cannot bind itself as to the form of subsequent legislation"
secure (a contract), typically with a sum of money.
be hampered or constrained by.
"Sarah did not want to be bound by a rigid timetable"
synonyms: constrain, restrict, restrain, trammel, tie hand and foot, tie down, fetter, shackle, hog-tie; More
5.
fix together and enclose (the pages of a book) in a cover.
"a small, fat volume, bound in red morocco"
6.
trim (the edge of a piece of material) with a decorative strip.
"a ruffle with the edges bound in a contrasting color"
synonyms: trim, hem, edge, border, fringe; More
7.
LOGIC
(of a quantifier) be applied to (a given variable) so that the variable falls within its scope.
noun
noun: bind; plural noun: binds
1.
a problematical situation.
"he is in a political bind over the welfare issue"
synonyms: predicament, awkward situation, difficult situation, quandary, dilemma, plight, spot, tight spot; More
2.
formal
a statutory constraint.
"the moral bind of the law"

See, there is no other meaning to bind. Moreover, scanning what Hashirama said make the understanding very simple for two reason:

(a) he fought Sasuke will stop Madara without using force
(b) He sought to use Sasuke's resemblance to Izuna to revive Madara's kindness since he believe Madara has some good in him.

Thus, your investigation is out of context. Moreover, there is something all the fanboys need to understand:

In Madara's current state, none of hashirama's jutsus can work. Madara has transcended their rivalry, and has reunited the two bloodline. Therefore, thinking that some mere binding Jutsus can stop Madara is cheer ignorance. In order to beat Madara, there will need to come up with something new that Madara does not know.

 

[Mr Hiru]

While you tried to make sense of everything you showed, I am sorry to tell you it does not make any sense at all. From physical energy, body cells, younger son, to Hashirama's cells within Madara, you don't make any sense. Hashirama explained clearly that he want Sasuke to bind Madara using a certain jutsus. unfortunately, Sasuke was the one to be bind by Madara, though most people like to ignore that fight. Clearly the meaning of the verb bind is as follows:

Spoiler

bind
bīnd/Submit
verb
1.
tie or fasten (something) tightly.
"floating bundles of logs bound together with ropes"
synonyms: tie (up), fasten (together), hold together, secure, make fast, attach; More
antonyms: untie, release
restrain (someone) by the tying up of hands and feet.
"the raider then bound and gagged Mr. Glenn"
wrap (something) tightly.
"her hair was bound up in a towel"
bandage (a wound).
"he cleaned the wound and bound it up with a clean dressing"
(of an object) be encircled by something, typically metal bands, in order to strengthen it.
"an ancient oak chest, bound with brass braces"
LINGUISTICS
(of a rule or set of grammatical conditions) determine the relationship between (coreferential noun phrases).
2.
cohere or cause to cohere in a single mass.
"mix the flour with the coconut and enough egg white to bind them"
cause (painting pigments) to form a smooth medium by mixing them with oil.
"use a white that is bound in linseed oil"
hold by chemical bonding.
"a protein in a form that can bind DNA"
combine with (a substance) through chemical bonding.
"these proteins have been reported to bind to calmodulin"
3.
cause (people) to feel united.
"the comradeship that had bound such a disparate bunch of young men together"
synonyms: unite, join, bond, knit together, draw together, yoke together More
antonyms: separate
cause someone to feel strongly attached to (a person or place).
"loosened the ties that had bound him to the university"
4.
formal
impose a legal or contractual obligation on.
"a party who signs a document will normally be bound by its terms"
indenture (someone) as an apprentice.
"he was bound apprentice at the age of sixteen"
formal
make a contractual or enforceable undertaking.
"the government cannot bind itself as to the form of subsequent legislation"
secure (a contract), typically with a sum of money.
be hampered or constrained by.
"Sarah did not want to be bound by a rigid timetable"
synonyms: constrain, restrict, restrain, trammel, tie hand and foot, tie down, fetter, shackle, hog-tie; More
5.
fix together and enclose (the pages of a book) in a cover.
"a small, fat volume, bound in red morocco"
6.
trim (the edge of a piece of material) with a decorative strip.
"a ruffle with the edges bound in a contrasting color"
synonyms: trim, hem, edge, border, fringe; More
7.
LOGIC
(of a quantifier) be applied to (a given variable) so that the variable falls within its scope.
noun
noun: bind; plural noun: binds
1.
a problematical situation.
"he is in a political bind over the welfare issue"
synonyms: predicament, awkward situation, difficult situation, quandary, dilemma, plight, spot, tight spot; More
2.
formal
a statutory constraint.
"the moral bind of the law"

See, there is no other meaning to bind. Moreover, scanning what Hashirama said make the understanding very simple for two reason:

(a) he fought Sasuke will stop Madara without using force
(b) He sought to use Sasuke's resemblance to Izuna to revive Madara's kindness since he believe Madara has some good in him.

Thus, your investigation is out of context. Moreover, there is something all the fanboys need to understand:

In Madara's current state, none of hashirama's jutsus can work. Madara has transcended their rivalry, and has reunited the two bloodline. Therefore, thinking that some mere binding Jutsus can stop Madara is cheer ignorance. In order to beat Madara, there will need to come up with something new that Madara does not know.

Although I don't consider myself as a fanboy (but a proof guy), and the need for understanding that every person that has answered me in this thread has concluded that this theory makes sense to some extent (and in consequence, I can't get your "your investigation if out of context"), I have to concur that in order to defeat Madara, somebody has to do something new that Madara don't know.

The question that is generated, consequence of your last statement (which makes sense for me) is... "Why destroying Madara from inside can't be out of Madara's knowledge"?

And the second question... "Where is your proof that Hashirama's jutsus won't work if they were performed by someone else?"

The third optional question... "Where is your proof that Hashirama's jutsu didn't have any effect"?

My counter-argument of course to this last question... is that as there is no proof that Sasuke didn't do anything offpanel before attacking Madara, we can't say he didn't do anything. So, the possibility is opened.

...Oh yes, and I considered the definition of "binding" for the theory. The Senjutsu Chakra would be bound to the dead cells of Hashirama. I thought you would understand that, since Sasori could use the Chakra bound to Human Marionettes...

Thank for your your rebuttal. It will open this thread for new perspectives.

 

[ANiMUS]

Not, bad I was thinking a technique for Madara to lose control of Hashi's cells as well, but I was thinking more on the lines of a curse mark.

 

[adeshina365]

Interesting theory, fairly plausible.

 

[Byron123]

I liked it and what I mostly liked was that you gave a deeper meaning behind Madara's spitting the tools. Till that moment it just seemed a cheap method to defeat Madara.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Well that would be a logical explanation for him to throw those things away without invoking Deus ex Machina

 

[Mr Hiru]

Not, bad I was thinking a technique for Madara to lose control of Hashi's cells as well, but I was thinking more on the lines of a curse mark.

Thanks for the appreciation. About your line: That would be a powerup, yes? I'd be kind against the possibility of a new powerup at this point of the manga. The difference of power between main characters and secondary characters is already way too big.

Interesting theory, fairly plausible.

Thanks a lot!

I liked it and what I mostly liked was that you gave a deeper meaning behind Madara's spitting the tools. Till that moment it just seemed a cheap method to defeat Madara.

Thanks for the appreciation. Actually, I found myself with pokerface when I saw that comedy scene in the last chapter... Kishimoto doesn't do things without purpose.

Well that would be a logical explanation for him to throw those things away without invoking Deus ex Machina

Exactly my thoughts. I don't want to see the Sage of Six paths nor a new powerup related to him to defeat Madara, that would ruin the purpose of Hagoromo giving his will to his younger son. There are motives to not keep giving freebies, even if the main stars are in the verge of death, if they aren't dead already.

 

[Uchiha Samater]

Very Interesting + rep, [if it lets me that is]

opens new roads for the story to potentially explore

 

[osba]

i think that the chakra hashirama gave him is going to do the same thing to madara as what happened with danzo.. as long as it is enough to take control over one cell he can make the mukuton feed uncontrollably, creating alot of mukuton in the process but stopping madara.

heck maybe the "chakra parasite" is already inside him, it could have been transferred trough the sword madara stabbed sasuke with.

as long as madara would notice too late, (the parasite would take chakra from the mukuton in his cells like hashirama does in his sage mode (that is at least what i think happens when he uses sage mode.. he has a yin seal wich he could use to take control of the cells and thus making him able to control a more nourished mukuton) ) it could take over his body.

 

[NaruSasuRival]

The question that is generated, consequence of your last statement (which makes sense for me) is... "Why destroying Madara from inside can't be out of Madara's knowledge"?

First, I would like to tell you that most of you like to consider only what the character that you like say. If you go back to when Hashirama and Madara were fighting, you will see that Hashirama failed on every assumptions he made until Madara got revived. Madara having reunited the two power has surpassed Hashirama. Second, Madara said that the two brother cannot stand anymore. Thus, you have two statement here: (1) hashirama thinking he has the antidote to Madara, and (2) Madara thinking he is far beyond their skills. As you can see, I will give more credits to Madara than to Hashirama by simply checking the outcome so far given.

Now, concerning your question, it does not make sense because you build up everything from your own opinion. As far as the action goes, Madara was filling something in his chest, and he spitted it out + we saw it. Why would you give another interpretation? Did Madara still felt heavy after ejecting the tools? see, the answer is no.

PS: Those who think the tools will play a role have better prediction than yours.

And the second question... "Where is your proof that Hashirama's jutsus won't work if they were performed by someone else?"

Because it did not work. Because Madara beat Sasuke and Sasuke is dying. because Madara went on and became Juubi's Jinchuriki, a more perfect one. Because Hashirama said Juubito was stronger than him, and we know Madara is stronger than Juubito was.

See, there are two keys: Binding and Resemblance to Izuna. Go and read what Madara said to Sasuke: (1) He gave him ample time to do something, and (2) he does not care about being a brother, a parent, etc. This is the evidence that the Jutsu failed.

The third optional question... "Where is your proof that Hashirama's jutsu didn't have any effect"?

See above. Madara is still up and running. he is even flying, a sign that the binding did not work if it was performed.

My counter-argument of course to this last question... is that as there is no proof that Sasuke didn't do anything offpanel before attacking Madara, we can't say he didn't do anything. So, the possibility is opened.

Well, look at him on the floor while checking Madara's flight to see the difference. I am wondering if you don't think the Jutsu was a poison with delayed effect. Seriously?

...Oh yes, and I considered the definition of "binding" for the theory. The Senjutsu Chakra would be bound to the dead cells of Hashirama. I thought you would understand that, since Sasori could use the Chakra bound to Human Marionettes...

Thank for your your rebuttal. It will open this thread for new perspectives.

Just like all other fanboys, you guys clinging to dead action while the story is evolving. You will certainly complain later because Madara is too much powerful for the like of a binding Jutsus.