[Discussion] I call BS

Kαmi

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While I agree with you overall but the part in bold I am at a disagreement. Just because the end is apporaching is not a legit and viable reason to get sloppy with things you've already established early on in the rest of the story. It is consider bad writting by most authors. But i digress.

These fallacies notwithstanding, The rest of the Manga is okay and as so many of you said we just have to take it for what it is. Still that doesn't mean fans should just stay quiet. If we the fans don't express what it is we disliked or didn't understand how is the author suppose to know what to fix in their next book, manga, movie videogame, etc.
Oh don't get me twisted now Umari. I'm no more of a fan of Kishi's somewhat sloppy writing than you are. I'm not one of those people who think it's wrong to complain as it is in the form of criticism and not in the form of bashing. I agree with what you're saying man, trust me I really do :yay:

mangekyou is activated by witnessing a traumatic event through the eyes.. that's how susanoo got activated too.. but it's a process in the brain (which is mentioned in the manga), but the witnessing comes in through the eyes. and susanoo isn't cast from the eyes like amaterasu or tsukuyomi.

"and either way, at least Itachi had eyes in his head"

Like Obito didn't have his eye in his eyesocket when he saw rin die right before he awakened MS..
The remote eye usage is a possibility, but not my explanation for this.. i do use it though in my explanation how i think madara escaped dead by using izanagi with one of his own original eyes in his fight with hashirama..
It still seems like a jutsu that depends on the eyes. It is a move that could have never been awakened had it not been for the unlocking of the previous doujutsus before it so to me, it makes more sense for the user to have their eyes than for it not to me. And Obito was near his eye when that happened. Both eyes were also active at the time and both in use when it happened. Just like how Kakashi was able to see Naruto and Sasuke while in Kamui. Obito and Kakashi's eye situation makes much more sense to me than Madara's wireless Susano'o.
 

SixPathsOfTobi

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The part in bold....There is just one flaw in this theory though....If Madara used Izanagi to escape death during his fight with Hashirama, then wouldn't Nagato have had only 1 rinnegan eye? Both of Nagato's eyes were Madara's. The only way I could see this being plausible is if, Like Obito, Madara had spare Sharingans and implanted the blind eye then awakened the Rinnegan. But wouldn't that still not work as one eye would be EMS and the other eye would need to 1st be MS then he would need to obtain EMS for the new eye...unless the original eye's abilities transfer over to the new eye....

...See, there are too many inconsistancies with this that in itself. But mabe Kishi can come up with a better explanation though I guess it is a little too late to get into that anymore.
click on the link and read the post.. cause i don't mention the remote eye usage for nothing.. in the fight he has izuna's eyes, his ems in his eye sockets the ones he gives to nagato later.. but when he meets obito he just has one spare eye.. and the theory is that that spare eye is his original eye (where he was born with) and he only has one cause he used the other eye for izanagi remotely.. but read the post to get a clearer view of what i mean.

It still seems like a jutsu that depends on the eyes. It is a move that could have never been awakened had it not been for the unlocking of the previous doujutsus before it so to me, it makes more sense for the user to have their eyes than for it not to me. And Obito was near his eye when that happened. Both eyes were also active at the time and both in use when it happened. Just like how Kakashi was able to see Naruto and Sasuke while in Kamui. Obito and Kakashi's eye situation makes much more sense to me than Madara's wireless Susano'o.
like i said.. i don't use remote eye usage as an explanation for that.. the eyes are there for witnessing the trauma.. the process happens in the brain like has been mentioned in the manga..

susanoo doesn't require eyes to be cast, cause it doesn't come from the eyeballs..

You cannot implant susanoo by implanting two ms eyes..
 

rollin

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The other answers will probably be explained in the manga later on
But for 3
Tobirama said hatred makes a special chakra sprout in the uchihas brain the more hatred sasuke got the bigger susano'o got
Susano is that special chakra
Sasuke used it to much with his ms that it made him blind the same with itachi madara has that chakra still its what makes him uchiha

5 maybe minato doesn't have kcm, that appearance is probably not because of kuramas yin chakra
 

Whiteknight

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So count all the instances were Kishi broke an absolute rule he set previously a.k.a. BS

Lets see how many we can remember(working my was backwards).

1. Spiral Zetsu using (lesser) 1000 Hand Buddha: he may be different to the other 10 000 zetsus but he is still a zetsu, neither is able to use any nature release jutsu. And if Spiral Zetsu was there all along then why didn't obito use him?
1) A ninja of high level can use more than one element. We've seen Sasuke use Fire and Lightning. We've seen Kakashi use water, earth and lightning. We've seen Hiruzen use all five. All it takes is training and ability to control chakra, and Spiral zetsu has had plenty of time to train.
2) Zetsu is a clone of Hashirama. Hashirama naturally had Earth and Water affinities (hence, wood). Zetsu may also have received some of Madara's "will", which would have fire affinity. After that, he only needs to learn two more.
3) Madara's body is part Hashirama/Zetsu. Zetsu can communicate telepathically through the ground. Therefore, Madara can communicate (and possibly pass chakra) to other Zetsus. Madara has Rinnegan, therefore any Zetsu borrowing his chakra can use it too
4) We know that the dragon- and Buddha-themed techniques in Hashirama's arsenal had the ability to absorb chakra. Spiral Zetsu is fighting shinobi of every nation, and therefore had opportunity to absorb chakra of all types

These are just four possible explanations for how he used those elements, I'm sure we could imagine more if we tried

2. Madara's Plug-n-Play eye: we saw Kakashi needed a medical nin to help with removing and implanting it, Sasuke was out for some days and had a blindfold, can't say anything about Obito's rinnegan.
And Madara has an enhanced body with Hashirama's cells and he has stolen much of Hashirama's chakra including senjutsu chakra. Hashirama has the ability to heal without using signs. In fact, we've already seen Madara heal his arm with that power. It's trivial to think he could heal his eye socket.

3. Madara's Susano'o: It is a dojutsu, it requires not one but two MS eyes, neither kakashi nor Obito have, both itachi's and sasuke's susano's vanished when they lost sight.
Tobirama explained that Sharingan had two parts: The sharingan itself and the changes that happen in the optic nerve and brain to activate the new power. Remember all that stuff about the older son of the great sage inheriting the sage's eyes and mind? Plus, Madara's eyes still existed and still worked, they just weren't attached to his head.

Admittedly, Madara using Susanoo without his eyes is a little bit of a hack, but it's not completely unreasonable.

4. Sasuke having PS: after getting EMS he spontaneously manifests Complete Susano'o... and then minutes later manifests PS after only hearing about it.
Sasuke hasn't used Perfect Susanoo yet.

5. Minato having KCM: died a minute after sealing Kurama and was running 10min(assuming) after getting revived so had no time to train plus the time he was sealed doesn't count since neither Hashi nor Tobi knew who he was yet they were sealed together
The Yin Kyuubi was sealed inside minato. Minato was sealed inside the belly of the shinigami for several decades. Minato has had plenty of time to train. ALSO, Minato was an expert at seals and knew many details about the Kyuubi and Bijuu that Naruto never knew. It's not impossible to think that he could pull this off.
 
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