Who can beat Minato?

[sdam]

Current Madara-Hashirama-Juubito-Sage Tailed Beast Naruto- Maybe Sasuke and Itachi...

 

[Oblivionx]

Jubito...!
Current Madara...! EMS loses
Only these two can beat minato and hashirama at best ties with him because even if nothing works for minato then it's a draw with RDS....!

 

[EL GENIO]

(Madara , Obito , Hashirama , Nagato , Naruto & Sasuke) for sure
& maybe (Tobirama , Kabuto , SM Jiraiya & Itachi)

 

[shelke]

That seal disappeared because Obito's body changed after absorbing Juubi,if he can cancel it then why didn't he do that to Tobirama's seal?

If u pay some attention Obito used ninjutsu cancellation after gaining full control over Juubi but the seal disappeared even b4 that.

Don't ask me. I made a thread about it in the discussion section that how laughable the plot-hole is. Apparently, he has to focus it on the Ninjutsu to cancel them.

He had already turned into a Jin by then. It's safe to assume that he either used it himself or it happened automatically as a result or transformation. The manga never explains whether it's the former or latter, though.

 

[RikudouMadara]

Well....my opinion these can defeat him Edo or not.

Madara all versions.(of course not child Madara or Hashirama)
Hashirama all versions.
Obito all except child version.
Tobirama
Itachi

These defeat him close to no difficulty at all imo.



Kakashi
Guy imho in the eight gate easily he wins.
Kisame
Shisui
Bee
Sasuke
Naruto
Ohnoki(maybe)

I feel he's cool but but not nearly as impressive as some of his fans make him out to be. Well...anywho that's my opinion.

 

[Avinash012]

Don't ask me. I made a thread about it in the discussion section that how laughable the plot-hole is. Apparently, he has to focus it on the Ninjutsu to cancel them.

He had already turned into a Jin by then. It's safe to assume that he either used it himself or it happened automatically as a result or transformation. The manga never explains whether it's the former or latter, though.

It is not a plot hole that seal disappeared because of changes happend to Obito's body,alot of physical changes happend to Obito's body after absorbing Juubi i.e. his body transformed into a different shape u can see that here

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Obito's ability to negate ninjutsu has nothing to do with this.

 

[shelke]

^ Come on ... you cannot be serious. It's obvious the seal disappeared -

- He made it disappear, as Minato TOLD him that his tag remains for all times.

 

[Avinash012]

^ Come on ... you cannot be serious. It's obvious the seal disappeared -

- He made it disappear, as Minato TOLD him that his tag remains for all times.

I dont understand what ur trying to prove here.

Obito didn't do anything to get rid of Minato's seal, it is not possible to erase the seal but u can make it disappear by getting rid of ur skin at that area.that is what happend in case of Obito.

 

[shelke]

^ Dude, FTG is ninjustu, including the seal. He cancelled it. Simple. Whether you agree with it or not, is up to you.

 

[miromiro]

Sage mode = Sage Obito = Sage of six paths power

hope you get it ..

Sage Mode is usually Sage Mode, as it sounds. For what you said we have the term Juubito. And that's not the Rikudou Sennin's power, it's the Juubi Jinchuuriki's power, which is slightly different.

 

[Avinash012]

^ Dude, FTG is ninjustu, including the seal. He cancelled it. Simple. Whether you agree with it or not, is up to you.

Ur whole argument is based on ur own assumptions

Seals can be absorbed : Ur own assumption
Obito used ninjutsu cancellation to get rid of seal : Assumption ,infact Obito never used that alility b4 taking control over Juubi.

It won't take a genius to understand that seal disappeared because of the changes made by juubi to Obito's skin and Obito would have get rid of Tobirama's seal if he can cancel it.

 

[wael reda]

i think current kakashi can beat him
i dont think that minato can counter kakashi kamui with its current feats,it was able to warp gedos arm which is bigger than 100 human before the gedo teleported to madara although it was summoned in advance ,imagine how fast will it be if it is used on humans neck(much smaller than gedo arm
)
i dont think he can notice or react to it

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Iam saying that because Kabuto may not be able to withstand that many DNA's with his normal body.

Then you aren't reading the manga right lmao. This statement contradicts the manga.

Look at Sasuke and Anko they suffered alot just because of Orochimaru's power and u think Kabuto can handel that many DNA's with normal body?If it is really possible Orochimaru would have gained that ability ages ago.
Regardless,the Kabuto that u have been talking about does not exists in this manga so it is pointless.

They are suffer because of the side effects OF THE SEAL, did you skip to part 2 series?

1. First you making the same fallacious argument you keep bringing up, which you keep dodging (Post hoc ergo prompter hoc)
2. You can't even distinguish the difference between SM and CS plus their side effects[

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]
3. Then you keep making a contradicting statement without address how its impossible for Kabuto to gain so many modification, contrary to the manga.
4. Ignoring that DNA swamping is normal for Naruto manga.

If u read the mechanics in that link that explains the difference b/w Juugo's ability/CM and SM.

Yup you aren't reading the context then. The whole context is talking about Orochimaru's personal Juinjutsu. At this point I am talking to a brick wall.

 

[Avinash012]

Then you aren't reading the manga right lmao. This statement contradicts the manga.

Since ur reading manga better than I do,plz show me the scans of someone using that many DNA's in a single body.

They are suffer because of the side effects OF THE SEAL, did you skip to part 2 series?

1. First you making the same fallacious argument you keep bringing up, which you keep dodging (Post hoc ergo prompter hoc)
2. You can't even distinguish the difference between SM and CS plus their side effects[

You must be registered for see links

]
3. Then you keep making a contradicting statement without address how its impossible for Kabuto to gain so many modification, contrary to the manga.
4. Ignoring that DNA swamping is normal for Naruto manga.

Never said that it is not possible.If u pay some attention,Hinata said that Orochimaru's DNA was trying to takeover Kabuto's body and Kabuto said that he is resisting it with his own chakra and it same for Sasuke as well as stated by Zetsu during Sasuke's battle with Itachi.If controlling the abilities of Orochimaru alone takes that much effort what exactly makes u think that he can handel all of em with his normal body?

Yup you aren't reading the context then. The whole context is talking about Orochimaru's personal Juinjutsu. At this point I am talking to a brick wall.

Can u plz explain how Orochimaru CM is different from how Kabuto uses that ability.

Even Juugo said that his ability is same as that of Kabuto and CM is a degraded version of his ability

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[Brother Numpsay]

Since ur reading manga better than I do,plz show me the scans of someone using that many DNA's in a single body.

Many? Kabuto. These DNA aren't even hard to control, proved by Kabuto.


While we have those who try to just get use to an inferior DNA harashima[

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].

Back to Kabuto, the only DNA consuming him is Orochimaru. All others aren't even showing no sign of giving him side effects to his body. This is why Sakon's KKG (ability to manipulate cells) was important. You don't need to control a huge chunk of DNA in the first place, which again Kabuto showed.

Never said that it is not possible.If u pay some attention,Hinata said that Orochimaru's DNA was trying to takeover Kabuto's body and Kabuto said that he is resisting it with his own chakra and it same for Sasuke as well as stated by Zetsu during Sasuke's battle with Itachi.If controlling the abilities of Orochimaru alone takes that much effort what exactly makes u think that he can handel all of em with his normal body?

And yet what did the manga portray off screen? He has been consumed all the way[

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] and has mastered the effects[

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].

There is nothing to deny here, Kabuto succeed.

Can u plz explain how Orochimaru CM is different from how Kabuto uses that ability.

Orochimaru studied Juugo's body. What he got from Juugo is that his bloodline gives him the ability to transform and power boost. Orochimaru wanted to know how it was possible. Orochimaru did not care about Juugos clan, stated in viz, nor their transformation and rampage. He finally found the conclusion that it was natural energy that give this power off. Orochimaru did not have the body to maintain the ability to use Sage Mode, which is was trying to learn from the Snakes. This gave him the reason to go back to Juugo to make up seals through his DNA. These Seals are made up to the senjutsu chakra Orochimaru can produce. He use Juugo's DNA as a medium to take effect[

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]. This was Orochimaru's plan to use senjutsu perfectly with a proper body. Once he finds the right body, having his seal, he conclude that he can reach Sage Mode.

Kabuto understood Orochimaru's premise to achieve. But he didn't need a host, he just need's Orochimaru's life force. Kabuto's body cant handle the power to use natural energy only due to not having big chakra reserves. This was another reason to get use to Orochimaru's life force. Kabuto used Oro DNA to deal with Sage Mode while use Juugo's DNA to absorb natural energy.

 

[Avinash012]

Many? Kabuto. These DNA aren't even hard to control, proved by Kabuto.
While we have those who try to just get use to an inferior DNA harashima[

You must be registered for see links

].
Back to Kabuto, the only DNA consuming him is Orochimaru. All others aren't even showing no sign of giving him side effects to his body. This is why Sakon's KKG (ability to manipulate cells) was important. You don't need to control a huge chunk of DNA in the first place, which again Kabuto showed.

Where does it says that it is not hard to control other DNA's? Controlling one or two fodder DNA's is understandable but he need to take care of alot of top level DNA's.

And yet what did the manga portray off screen? He has been consumed all the way[

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] and has mastered the effects[

You must be registered for see links

].

Nothing from those scans suggests that he can use them with normal body,once again Orochimaru would have did it ages ago if it is possible.

Orochimaru studied Juugo's body. What he got from Juugo is that his bloodline gives him the ability to transform and power boost. Orochimaru wanted to know how it was possible. Orochimaru did not care about Juugos clan, stated in viz, nor their transformation and rampage. He finally found the conclusion that it was natural energy that give this power off. Orochimaru did not have the body to maintain the ability to use Sage Mode, which is was trying to learn from the Snakes. This gave him the reason to go back to Juugo to make up seals through his DNA. These Seals are made up to the senjutsu chakra Orochimaru can produce. He use Juugo's DNA as a medium to take effect[

You must be registered for see links

]. This was Orochimaru's plan to use senjutsu perfectly with a proper body. Once he finds the right body, having his seal, he conclude that he can reach Sage Mode.

Kabuto understood Orochimaru's premise to achieve. But he didn't need a host, he just need's Orochimaru's life force. Kabuto's body cant handle the power to use natural energy only due to not having big chakra reserves. This was another reason to get use to Orochimaru's life force. Kabuto used Oro DNA to deal with Sage Mode while use Juugo's DNA to absorb natural energy.

Cute!
Juugo said that his and Kabuto's abilities are same and his degraded version is CM

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That scan of ur's says that Oro used Juugo's DNA along with his seal to make clones of Juugo I don't know where u get that meadium thing and what exactly u mean by meadium.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Where does it says that it is not hard to control other DNA's? Controlling one or two fodder DNA's is understandable but he need to take care of alot of top level DNA's.

Nothing from those scans suggests that he can use them with normal body,once again Orochimaru would have did it ages ago if it is possible.

Cute!
Juugo said that his and Kabuto's abilities are same and his degraded version is CM

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That scan of ur's says that Oro used Juugo's DNA along with his seal to make clones of Juugo I don't know where u get that meadium thing and what exactly u mean by meadium.

-Like who?
-What normal body? Why do you keep bringing this up?
-Please post the full context before you make claims that doesn't follow the manga. The panel before this, Suigetsu ask about Juugo's transformation[

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]

Medium= DNA Juugo for Sage transformation (clones are called curse transformation). The Seals are Orochimar's and his senjutsu chakra.

 

[Avinash012]

-Like who?
-What normal body? Why do you keep bringing this up?
-Please post the full context before you make claims that doesn't follow the manga. The panel before this, Suigetsu ask about Juugo's transformation[

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]

Normal body = no dragon transformation.

Medium= DNA Juugo for Sage transformation (clones are called curse transformation). The Seals are Orochimar's and his senjutsu chakra.

Suigetsu asking him about his abilities dosen't change anything in that scan of mine and I still don't get what ur trying to say with that medium stuff.Here the medium is Orochimaru's seal not Juugo's DNA,his seal enables the victims to gain access to Juugo's ability,Orochimaru infuses abit of his consciousness and Senjutsu chakra with his seal,if u think those victims uses Oro's senjutsu chakra but doesnot absorb the chakra from out side then ur wrong,If Oro infuses only a part of his senjutsu chakra with his seal then the seal should eventually run out of senjutsu chakra after using it for some time but I was never happend in manga.
Let me tell u how I think the seal works,Juugo's DNA only lets u absorb natural evergy but the victims of CM don't know how to combine it with their own chakra to creat senjutsu which is why Orochimaru infused a part of his consciousness in those seals.While using CM Orohcimaru's consciousness inside the seal controls the chakra system of the victim it absorbs natural energy from nature by using Juugo DNA and absorbs victims own chakra and combines it with natural energy to creat senjutsu chakra and gives it to CM user which grants the user a super power boost but it is still inferior to SM as there is no perfect control over natural energy but Kabuto learned to control that energy perfectly,he uses Juugo's DNA to absorb natural energy and unlike CM he controls it with his own will this is the main difference b/w CM and Kabuto's SM nothing else.If Juugo's ability is different from Kabuto then how in blue hell can Kabuto remain as a dragon when the method he is using to absorb natural energy is different from his summoning affinity? Look at Naruto he turns into a frog because his method of absorbing natural energy is same as that of frogs but Kabuto transformed into snake/dragon even though he was using Juugo's ability to absorb natural energy.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Normal body = no dragon transformation.

Except he doesn't have normal body. He modify his body to handle all these modification he added unto himself before learning Sage Mode[

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].

While having Orochimaru's life force support.

Suigetsu asking him about his abilities dosen't change anything in that scan of mine and I still don't get what ur trying to say with that medium stuff.Here the medium is Orochimaru's seal not Juugo's DNA,his seal enables the victims to gain access to Juugo's ability,Orochimaru infuses abit of his consciousness and Senjutsu chakra with his seal,if u think those victims uses Oro's senjutsu chakra but doesnot absorb the chakra from out side then ur wrong,If Oro infuses only a part of his senjutsu chakra with his seal then the seal should eventually run out of senjutsu chakra after using it for some time but I was never happend in manga.
Let me tell u how I think the seal works,Juugo's DNA only lets u absorb natural evergy but the victims of CM don't know how to combine it with their own chakra to creat senjutsu which is why Orochimaru infused a part of his consciousness in those seals.While using CM Orohcimaru's consciousness inside the seal controls the chakra system of the victim it absorbs natural energy from nature by using Juugo DNA and absorbs victims own chakra and combines it with natural energy to creat senjutsu chakra and gives it to CM user which grants the user a super power boost but it is still inferior to SM as there is no perfect control over natural energy but Kabuto learned to control that energy perfectly,he uses Juugo's DNA to absorb natural energy and unlike CM he controls it with his own will this is the main difference b/w CM and Kabuto's SM nothing else.If Juugo's ability is different from Kabuto then how in blue hell can Kabuto remain as a dragon when the method he is using to absorb natural energy is different from his summoning affinity? Look at Naruto he turns into a frog because his method of absorbing natural energy is same as that of frogs but Kabuto transformed into snake/dragon even though he was using Juugo's ability to absorb natural energy.

Lost me at bold. Kabuto learn to use natural energy from Sage Snake herself[

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]. Plus Kabuto keep his snake affinities at the same time. [

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]<--Snakes brille.[

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]<-- Snakes jaw.

Kabuto's ability is completely diff from Juugo because:

1. Kabuto does not have Juugo's bloodline to transform into monster
2. Can control natures power

All Kabuto use from Juugo is to defeat the purpose of standing still to absorb natural energy.

 

[Avinash012]

Except he doesn't have normal body. He modify his body to handle all these modification he added unto himself before learning Sage Mode[

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].While having Orochimaru's life force support.

Look at how much he was suffering while injecting those DNA's u still think he can handel them with ease?

Kabuto's ability is completely diff from Juugo because:

1. Kabuto does not have Juugo's bloodline to transform into monster
2. Can control natures power

All Kabuto use from Juugo is to defeat the purpose of standing still to absorb natural energy.

Juugo has no control over natural energy that's why he turns into a monster otherwise he'll remain as a human.

& For Kabuto's part for what I have been observing What makes SM's different from eachother is the method they use to absorb natural energy nothing else. Kabuto obviously uses Juugo's ability to absorb natural energy which means that he shouldn't be able to remain in his drgon mode as he is using a different method to obsorb natural energy but it didn't happend incase of Kabuto which made me belive that their origin is same.