Hiruzen vs Ay

[Rike Senju]

A wins. Hiruzen has 0 reflex speed feats that can put him on A's level.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

He is explaining how he dodged the susano arrow, his natural perfection got increased "so much", because of Juugo's DNA.

The perceptual abilitie is increased by the force of nature.

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Okay there's the proof, Juugo's reflexes > Hiruzen's. So hiruzen looses all scenarios

Wtf did I just read.

 

[Curse Mark]

Wtf did I just read.

Whats wrong with it?

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Whats wrong with it?

He only use Juugo DNA to passively absorb natural energy.

Juugo does NOT have Sage Mode feats to do such thing.

 

[Curse Mark]

He only use Juugo DNA to passively absorb natural energy.

Juugo does NOT have Sage Mode feats to do such thing.

The scans he provided proved what he was saying.

 

[Avinash012]

Ay wins all.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

The scans he provided proved what he was saying.

Lol no. Juugo's clan has the ability to absorb natural energy. Since their bloodline can't control what they are gathering they transform into this mystical creature breed, results in increased physical abilities and to perform various shape-shifting feats. Thats all.

They cannot balance thenatural energy and harness what Sage Mode users can do.

In the context of Kabuto's words, Orochimaru did not focus on what Juugo can do but the source of enabling Juugo to do this in the first place via natural energy. What Kabuto made useful for Juugo's ability was solely to absorb natural energy passively, to avoid the weakness of standing still to enter Sage Mode.

 

[Curse Mark]

He is explaining how he dodged the susano arrow, his natural perfection got increased "so much", because of Juugo's DNA.

The perceptual abilitie is increased by the force of nature.

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Okay there's the proof, Juugo's reflexes > Hiruzen's. So hiruzen looses all scenarios

Kabuto is explaining how he dodged the arrow and specifically says "I always have the force of Nature to help me."
And then he mentions again that Jugo can absorb "the force of nature."
I'm saying it helped Kabuto, not necessarily Jugo though.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Kabuto is explaining how he dodged the arrow and specifically says "I always have the force of Nature to help me."
And then he mentions again that Jugo can absorb "the force of nature."
I'm saying it helped Kabuto, not necessarily Jugo though.

Right so here is what ezequielosses got out from it:

Okay there's the proof, Juugo's reflexes > Hiruzen's.

 

[EZQ]

Right so here is what ezequielosses got out from it:

The force of nature increases the perception. And Juugo can absorve that.

"They cannot balance thenatural energy and harness what Sage Mode users can do"

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Its a fact that only Senjutsu works on Juubito, that's why Juugo used his curse mark.

Juugo is a Sage Mode user, When he uses his CM he's going into Sage Mode, absorbing natural energy does increases his natural perceptions/reflexes just like Kabuto explained.

There you have proof and evidence, Juugo's CM is sage mode, and when he absorbes the natural energy this increases his reflexes.
Juugo's reflexes > Hiruzen

Hiruzen looses all scenarios.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

The force of nature increases the perception. And Juugo can absorve that.

"They cannot balance thenatural energy and harness what Sage Mode users can do"

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Its a fact that only Senjutsu works on Juubito, that's why Juugo used his curse mark.

Juugo is a Sage Mode user, When he uses his CM he's going into Sage Mode, absorbing natural energy does increases his natural perceptions/reflexes just like Kabuto explained.

There you have proof and evidence, Juugo's CM is sage mode, and when he absorbes the natural energy this increases his reflexes.
Juugo's reflexes > Hiruzen

Hiruzen looses all scenarios.

Able to use Curse Transformation does not mean Sage Mode.

You keep taking these scans out of context.
-Call me when Juugo or any CM users can boost their ninjutsu power.
-Call me when Juugo can see nature the way Naruto[

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] can via all train Sage Mode users like Hashirama and Kabuto
-Call me when Juugo can balance his physical, spiritual, and natural energy perfectly to harness its true potential.

Read up on the difference between Curse Mode power through natural energy and Sage Mode power through natural energy.

 

[EZQ]

Able to use Curse Transformation does not mean Sage Mode.

You keep taking these scans out of context.
-Call me when Juugo or any CM users can boost their ninjutsu power.
-Call me when Juugo can see nature the way Naruto[

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] can via all train Sage Mode users like Hashirama and Kabuto
-Call me when Juugo can balance his physical, spiritual, and natural energy perfectly to harness its true potential.

Read up on the difference between Curse Mode power through natural energy and Sage Mode power through natural energy.

Hmm okay keep ignoring manga facts bro. You have the scans right there and you don't even see them.

Juugo's curse mark is senjutsu, you lke it or not, there's the proof. Not reading more of your BS, of course Juugos SM < Kabuto's , but that doesn't change the fact that SM is SM and absorbing natural energy increases reflexes as Kabuto stated.

Curse mark is sage mode, READ THE MANGA

 

[MickNerks]

This *****... that¡s why you have the honor to be in my sig

Im glad to be thought of so highly that you would take the time to publish my words as your sig.

Now could you please explain how I would be wrong?
We all know raikage is now a tactician, he is a bulldozer that attempts to run everything over.

 

[EZQ]

Im glad to be thought of so highly that you would take the time to publish my words as your sig.

Now could you please explain how I would be wrong?
We all know raikage is now a tactician, he is a bulldozer that attempts to run everything over.

The gifht would go like this: Ay atacks, Hiruzen doesn't have time to do shit exept to block the punch with enma (Hiruzen's reflexes are way slower than you think they are, he has absolutely no feats that show that he can make 4 clones before Ay strikes) , When Hiruzen blocks the punch then elbow to the face just like Ay did with juugo.

Hiruzen's reflexes are poor, he could think a good strategy to take Ay down, but he wouldn't be on time to perform it.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Hmm okay keep ignoring manga facts bro. You have the scans right there and you don't even see them.

Juugo's curse mark is senjutsu, you lke it or not, there's the proof. Not reading more of your BS, of course Juugos SM < Kabuto's , but that doesn't change the fact that SM is SM and absorbing natural energy increases reflexes as Kabuto stated.

Curse mark is sage mode, READ THE MANGA

Lol manga fact? All you did was post a scan trying to take the context out, by stating all users who can use natural energy, have the same feat.


That statement is laughable at best.

 

[Penguin]

That bijuu sized Fuuton would **** shit up.

 

[BlacLord™]

He loses every single scenario.

Size doesn't matter, it's the quality and potency of the jutsu that matters.

Even Chidori failed to fully penetrate LRA, a few primitive forms of nature-based ninjutsu won't cut it.

Ay blitzes him.

 

[EZQ]

He loses every single scenario.

Size doesn't matter, it's the quality and potency of the jutsu that matters.

Even Chidori failed to fully penetrate LRA, a few primitive forms of nature-based ninjutsu won't cut it.

Ay blitzes him.

Also, Ay can perfectly dodge the atack, he can react to amaterasu.

Lol manga fact? All you did was post a scan trying to take the context out, by stating all users who can use natural energy, have the same feat.


That statement is laughable at best.

Natural energy increases reflexes, its the abilitie of the Jyuugo clan, and i also prooved that Juugo can go Sage Mode, as stated by Orochimaru. Only senjutsu works on Juubito, so Juugo's CM is senjutsu.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Natural energy increases reflexes,

To those who have master becoming one with nature. Juugo can not. To destroy this premise once and for all lets look at Jiraya with Sage Mode:

-Nope[

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] he can't[

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].<--And this is someone who has train to balance it, unlike Juugo can't control it to begin with.

-And the fact that Orochimaru try to gain Sage Mode ability when he knows how to make senjutsu chakra[

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]. Does not have such feat.

its the abilitie of the Jyuugo clan,

Stated no where.
1.All that was stated is that he has the ability to passively absorb natural energy.
2. Stated that his blood line goes berserk and transform without turning to full stone as a side effects.
3. Physical prowess and chakra level is boost only.

and i also prooved that Juugo can go Sage Mode, as stated by Orochimaru.

Nope Orochimaru said nothing about Sage Mode, your getting that statement from no where in that manga. Once again you are still confuse on how Senjutsu chakra works

Only senjutsu works on Juubito, so Juugo's CM is senjutsu.

Again Senjutsu does not = Sage Mode.

 

[EZQ]

To those who have master becoming one with nature. Juugo can not. To destroy this premise once and for all lets look at Jiraya with Sage Mode:

-Nope[

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] he can't[

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].<--And this is someone who has train to balance it, unlike Juugo can't control it to begin with.

-And the fact that Orochimaru try to gain Sage Mode ability when he knows how to make senjutsu chakra[

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]. Does not have such feat.



Stated no where.
1.All that was stated is that he has the ability to passively absorb natural energy.
2. Stated that his blood line goes berserk and transform without turning to full stone as a side effects.
3. Physical prowess and chakra level is boost only.



Nope Orochimaru said nothing about Sage Mode, your getting that statement from no where in that manga. Once again you are still confuse on how Senjutsu chakra works



Again Senjutsu does not = Sage Mode.

You fail to see that i am not stating that Juugo's reflexes > SM Naruto's or Jiraiya's. I'm stating that Juugo's reflexes are above avergage, since absorbing the force of nature increases reflexes on those who can master it, Juugo can master CS mark so he can master senjutsu, wich absorbing force of nature increases reflexes as Kabuto stated, if you want to ignore that fact then lets drop this debate.

Anyways i was prooving why Juugo's reflexes > Hiruzen's , wich I already prooved right, but even if you ignore that fact there's no way Hiruzen beats Ay.

PD: Forgot, Senjutsu = Sage mode.