[Discussion] How strong is Hashirama's Sage mode?

[valandil988]

So far from what Madara has demonstrated the healing abilities of Hashirama's sage mode seem to be...well fast but not Naruto fast.

I somehow doubt he could match the sheer tanking abilities that Naruto & Tsunade have shown in the past. Chidori wound as an example. Madara's Susanoo blades another.

Hashirama's ability seems to be gauged to more of a battle continuation ability, IE the user can keep fighting for far far longer than a conventional ninja. However if enough damage is applied quickly enough I doubt Madara could heal from it at his current levels. So far we have far more Feats for Tsunade's regeneration technique to suggest that it matches Naruto's regeneration under the influence of the Kyuubi.

I mean wounds like the "little" stab Madara got in his arm took a while to heal compared to say Tsunade or Naruto....Also the way Madara reacted to Tsunade's healing suggests it might actually be superior to Hashirama's own sage mode abilities.

The way I look at it is that even without Sage mode Hashirama was such a powerful ninja that with Sage mode what small wounds that Madara managed to inflict upon Hashirama were healed quickly by Sage mode's passive healing. Hence compared to conventional battle where the wounds would slow & hamper and eventually incapacitate the battlers Hashirama could ignore these normal constraints where as Madara could not.

By the end of the VoE battle Madara had suffered no visible wounds apart from chakra exhaustion (though he had lost ALL of his armor), Hashirama "looked" (yet still retained more armor) to have had more trouble but likely had healed from the damage...

My point from this is that Madara and Hashirama were so powerful that it was highly unlikely that Hashirama had suffered ANY wounds comparable to the ones that Tsunade and Naruto have suffered and recovered from in the past.


So I want to know what the opinions of Hashirama's sage mode healing abilities are vs other examples of healing we have seen.

NOTE: this is working with the assumption that Hashirama's sage mode is the source of his sealess healing

 

[realobito1]

Well we have never actually seen hashirama use these abilities himself maybe his level of healing goes beyond his sage mode as madara never said that the two were related. Maybe he has tsunade level healing in addition to sage mode which makes him that much more powerful.

 

[Naruto.]

Keeping aside sage mode, he was renowned to heal himself without weaving hand seals. So, yea he's one of the greatest medic nins ever.

 

[valandil988]

Well we have never actually seen hashirama use these abilities himself maybe his level of healing goes beyond his sage mode as madara never said that the two were related. Maybe he has tsunade level healing in addition to sage mode which makes him that much more powerful.

So you think Madara's stolen sage mode is a pale imitation that doesn't demonstrate Hashirama's true healing abilities. Gd point I agree its possible it is a weakened version.

Keeping aside sage mode, he was renowned to heal himself without weaving hand seals. So, yea he's one of the greatest medic nins ever.

Made a new note about sealess healing. I'm working from the assumption that both are one and the same.

 

[GodaimeRaikage]

I think you are mixing Hashirama's abilities up.Hashirama healing abilities are base hashirama abilities.In or out of Sage mode,Hashi body would heal itself.Sage mode doesn't give it's users abilities, it only enhances the users own abilites.Madara is not hashirama,so of course madara wouldn't heal at the same rate of hashi because madara only has some cells of hashi within him, while hashirama is well, all hashirama.

 

[juzumaki]

does he have a time limit like naruto

 

[valandil988]

I think you are mixing Hashirama's abilities up.Hashirama healing abilities are base hashirama abilities.In or out of Sage mode,Hashi body would heal itself.Sage mode doesn't give it's users abilities, it only enhances the users own abilites.Madara is not hashirama,so of course madara wouldn't heal at the same rate of hashi because madara only has some cells of hashi within him, while hashirama is well, all hashirama.

Good points but I would point out that we have never seen Hashirama use his healing in sage mode or out. We can only assume that his healing is tied to his Sage mode because Madara showed this ability after he stole the sage mode.

Again something about sage mode, Each sage mode we have see grants special abilities such as snake mode toad mode and tentatively slug mode (which I believe is Hashirama's mode). Toad enhances durability and strength etc, Snake Sage mode also enhances the users snake attributes or gives them said attributes. Slug sage mode I'm guessing heals the user. As we can see each mode is unique in what is does for the user.

does he have a time limit like naruto

Probably, sage mode is limited by how much senjutsu you have, so I would guess the "time limit" would depend of the user.

 

[BlacLord™]

Keeping aside sage mode, he was renowned to heal himself without weaving hand seals. So, yea he's one of the greatest medic nins ever.

And to generally be able to heal without hand signs, which Tsunade admitted she was not capable of herself.

 

[valandil988]

And to generally be able to heal without hand signs, which Tsunade admitted she was not capable of herself.

Is that healing others or self healing? Again we are assuming that it was one or the other. Her comment was very general, it could mean that Hashirama could lay hands on people and heal them without seals. Is she saying he could use medical ninjutsu just standing there. If so then why did Madara gain the ability to self heal when he stole sage mode?

 

[BlacLord™]

Is that healing others or self healing? Again we are assuming that it was one or the other. Her comment was very general, it could mean that Hashirama could lay hands on people and heal them without seals. Is she saying he could use medical ninjutsu just standing there. If so then why did Madara gain the ability to self heal when he stole sage mode?

Himself and others, it all equates to the same thing and comes down to the same technique.

Spoiler

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Tsunade admitting this is pretty huge, it means that Hashirama could be the greatest healer in history.

 

[valandil988]

Himself and others, it all equates to the same thing and comes down to the same technique.

Yeah found the same panel. However you didnt address the fact that Madara gained self healing after stealing Hashirama's sage mode.

 

[BlacLord™]

Yeah found the same panel. However you didnt address the fact that Madara gained self healing after stealth Hashirama's sage mode.

Well, it is only a pseudo-Sage Mode.

 

[xcoyote]

Tbh,i dont believe his healing is ninjutsu.
Imo its because his cells,even Obito has showed accelerated healing because of shodai's cells.
I think when Madz got sage mode his healing just got boosted.

 

[Kαmi]

Tbh,i dont believe his healing is ninjutsu.
Imo its because his cells,even Obito has showed accelerated healing because of shodai's cells.
I think when Madz got sage mode his healing just got boosted.

I think you're right actually. It seems as if Hashirama's own body and cells are what makes it possible for his healing, maybe he just puts out more chakra throughout his body in order to heal and that's that. Cause both Madara and Obito were healing without any kind of hand signs or Justus yet healed with ease. With them having Hashirama's cells, I think we can infer that Hashi heals the same way.

 

[Meekz89]

Yeah found the same panel. However you didnt address the fact that Madara gained self healing after stealth Hashirama's sage mode.

We'll that is only Madaras case. Me personally I believe hashirama can use it in and out of sage mode. Sage mode would just increase the rate at which he heals. Which I believe is way faster than Madara has shown.

 

[valandil988]

Tbh,i dont believe his healing is ninjutsu.
Imo its because his cells,even Obito has showed accelerated healing because of shodai's cells.
I think when Madz got sage mode his healing just got boosted.

I think you're right actually. It seems as if Hashirama's own body and cells are what makes it possible for his healing, maybe he just puts out more chakra throughout his body in order to heal and that's that. Cause both Madara and Obito were healing without any kind of hand signs or Justus yet healed with ease. With them having Hashirama's cells, I think we can infer that Hashi heals the same way.

We'll that is only Madaras case. Me personally I believe hashirama can use it in and out of sage mode. Sage mode would just increase the rate at which he heals. Which I believe is way faster than Madara has shown.

Well in the case that any of the three comments are correct my question would be:

What does Hashirama's sage mode grant as a special ability?

Toad mode grants super strength and durability,

Snake mode seems to grant snake like traits.

 

[Kαmi]

Well in the case that any of the three comments are correct my question would be:

What does Hashirama's sage mode grant as a special ability?

Toad mode grants super strength and durability,

Snake mode seems to grant snake like traits.

I imagine it does some of the same things it has done for both Madara and Naruto: Greatly enhanced danger-sensing reflexes, enhanced strength, durability, overall abilities in most aspects, and a boost in his ninjutsu. Spiral Zetsu is using a mini Buddha version compared to the one Hashirama used on Madara but Hashi also used SM to create his Buddha, which is why there is such a huge difference in size between the two Buddhas since Spiral Zetsu does not have SM.

 

[Xāvî1]

Weaker then naruto in his BSM

 

[valandil988]

I imagine it does some of the same things it has done for both Madara and Naruto: Greatly enhanced danger-sensing reflexes, enhanced strength, durability, overall abilities in most aspects, and a boost in his ninjutsu. Spiral Zetsu is using a mini Buddha version compared to the one Hashirama used on Madara but Hashi also used SM to create his Buddha, which is why there is such a huge difference in size between the two Buddhas since Spiral Zetsu does not have SM.

What you have just described is the BASIC attributes sage mode grants a user...thats any sage mode snake toad etc. Toad mode grants frog kata and enhanced durability. Snake mode grants more snake like abilities to the user, such as total resistance to normal genjutsu.

All three mods, grant boosted nin-tai-genjutsu abilities, and all grant enhanced threat perception but each mode has unique abilities that the others don't have.

 

[Kαmi]

What you have just described is the BASIC attributes sage mode grants a user...thats any sage mode snake toad etc. Toad mode grants frog kata and enhanced durability. Snake mode grants more snake like abilities to the user, such as total resistance to normal genjutsu.

All three mods, grant boosted nin-tai-genjutsu abilities, and all grant enhanced threat perception but each mode has unique abilities that the others don't have.

I can't make any inferences on any of Hashi's SM's unique abilities since he hasn't shown any of them nor do we even know what kind of SM he has. So as far as I know, he only gets the basic power ups SM brings.