Do you believe in God

[Aim64C]

but everything you give me is false, because islam and god is a lie.

why are only the people not believing in allah are "dumb, deaf and blind", but the people not beliving in evolution are smart and knowledgeable? what is the diffrence between them? you can't know for absolute certainty that god exists and you can't know for absolute certainty that evolution is real. but you have no problem deciding that one is completly true and the other one is a lie.

i wanted a "maybe" option because i'm not sure, what baffles me is that you are so sure. how can you be 100% certain about it?

Humans are interesting critters.

On one hand - they are all faith-based.

I can run through the list of evidence that illustrates Evolution to be horribly incomplete, at best. People will still cling to it being a factual no-brainer until they die. Just as there are people who will cling to the idea that there are (or aren't) 'hidden factors' governing Quantum Mechanics.

Similarly - people will cling to their views on origins and the existence of a deity with nearly violent fervor until the day they die.

People need something to believe in - something to 'ground' their life experience around. It's a psychological need that runs even deeper than companionship.

The paradoxical, and highly intriguing point about it is that very, very few people actually have faith - despite being "faith based" (be that faith in a theoretical model, a deity, or just the inter-relation of the two) - many seem to acquire any and every little point they can find that can be perceived to support their 'faith' as evidence of its veracity.

Which undermines the entire concept of faith. Faith is a belief in the absence of conclusive (and sometimes supporting) evidence. It is the belief that a difficult (or impossible) to prove interpretation is the most correct. Faith acknowledges the possibility of a belief being false, yet seeks a determination for one's self.

While I'm not accusing you of it (you seem to be open to exploring concepts and ideas) - it is always very intriguing to watch how people are self-delusional. People who believe they have faith because they have evidence/proof ... is kind of self-conflicting. Likewise are the people who insist they have evidence/proof because they have faith (and the more with that faith, the merrier) are just as entertaining. One camp tends to inhabit organized religion, the other camp tends to inhabit those 'educated in science' without actually being the grunts on the research field (most of them have close encounters of the "WTF" kind enough to understand that we only marginally understand).

Generally speaking - the wisest standpoint to take on any and all issues is that 'there is more to the story than we currently know.' Be that with the debate over origins (and subsequent evolution - abiogenesis is a theory necessarily separate from evolution because evolutionary theory requires a self-replicating system) - or a debate over the merits of various religions and their respective deities.

We should always be ready to accept that our viewpoint will have to adjust to new information that may or may not be convenient for our fragile and meager understanding of the world.

 

[GOD2U]

Yeah I believe in God.

 

[EnDash]

Humans are interesting critters.

On one hand - they are all faith-based.

I can run through the list of evidence that illustrates Evolution to be horribly incomplete, at best. People will still cling to it being a factual no-brainer until they die. Just as there are people who will cling to the idea that there are (or aren't) 'hidden factors' governing Quantum Mechanics.

Similarly - people will cling to their views on origins and the existence of a deity with nearly violent fervor until the day they die.

People need something to believe in - something to 'ground' their life experience around. It's a psychological need that runs even deeper than companionship.

The paradoxical, and highly intriguing point about it is that very, very few people actually have faith - despite being "faith based" (be that faith in a theoretical model, a deity, or just the inter-relation of the two) - many seem to acquire any and every little point they can find that can be perceived to support their 'faith' as evidence of its veracity.

Which undermines the entire concept of faith. Faith is a belief in the absence of conclusive (and sometimes supporting) evidence. It is the belief that a difficult (or impossible) to prove interpretation is the most correct. Faith acknowledges the possibility of a belief being false, yet seeks a determination for one's self.

While I'm not accusing you of it (you seem to be open to exploring concepts and ideas) - it is always very intriguing to watch how people are self-delusional. People who believe they have faith because they have evidence/proof ... is kind of self-conflicting. Likewise are the people who insist they have evidence/proof because they have faith (and the more with that faith, the merrier) are just as entertaining. One camp tends to inhabit organized religion, the other camp tends to inhabit those 'educated in science' without actually being the grunts on the research field (most of them have close encounters of the "WTF" kind enough to understand that we only marginally understand).

Generally speaking - the wisest standpoint to take on any and all issues is that 'there is more to the story than we currently know.' Be that with the debate over origins (and subsequent evolution - abiogenesis is a theory necessarily separate from evolution because evolutionary theory requires a self-replicating system) - or a debate over the merits of various religions and their respective deities.

We should always be ready to accept that our viewpoint will have to adjust to new information that may or may not be convenient for our fragile and meager understanding of the world.

i completly agree with you, which is why i never take anything for granted. questioning preconceptions and asking question that shuld be "obvious" is what brought people to make unbelivable discoveries and understand the world better. but as you said both parties (athiest and thiest) suffer from believing that they understand everything completly, and no longer have to question the basics and core because it's obviously flawless. the most important thing required for us to advance as a society, from a religious or scientific standpoint, is to accept change. otherwise we will just stay exactly the same forever, and no one i think belives we are perfect as we are now.

so i want to hear what she has to say, i want to know how she decided between two completly uncertain beliefs.

 

[Zaphkiel]

Meh, its whatever.... I'm thinking of a more agnostic path

 

[Made in Heaven]

but everything you give me is false, because islam and god is a lie.

why are only the people not believing in allah are "dumb, deaf and blind", but the people not beliving in evolution are smart and knowledgeable? what is the diffrence between them? you can't know for absolute certainty that god exists and you can't know for absolute certainty that evolution is real. but you have no problem deciding that one is completly true and the other one is a lie.

i wanted a "maybe" option because i'm not sure, what baffles me is that you are so sure. how can you be 100% certain about it?

I am 100% sure because its fact that the universe has to have an intelligent designer, whether its allah, Brahman, or the Father. However, with the Quran and its scientific
miracles, I know islam is right.

Btw, not sure if you know this, but evolution is mathematically impossible, at least by random chance

Wish I could write more but its hard to do so on mobile

 

[Made in Heaven]

Humans are interesting critters.

On one hand - they are all faith-based.

I can run through the list of evidence that illustrates Evolution to be horribly incomplete, at best. People will still cling to it being a factual no-brainer until they die. Just as there are people who will cling to the idea that there are (or aren't) 'hidden factors' governing Quantum Mechanics.

Similarly - people will cling to their views on origins and the existence of a deity with nearly violent fervor until the day they die.

People need something to believe in - something to 'ground' their life experience around. It's a psychological need that runs even deeper than companionship.

The paradoxical, and highly intriguing point about it is that very, very few people actually have faith - despite being "faith based" (be that faith in a theoretical model, a deity, or just the inter-relation of the two) - mny seem to acquire any and every little point they can find that can be perceived to support their 'faith' as evidence of its veracity.

Which undermines the entire concept of faith. Faith is a belief in the absence of conclusive (and sometimes supporting) evidence. It is the belief that a difficult (or impossible) to prove interpretation is the most correct. Faith acknowledges the possibility of a belief being false, yet seeks a determination for one's self.

While I'm not accusing you of it (you seem to be open to exploring concepts and ideas) - it is always very intriguing to watch how people are self-delusional. People who believe they have faith because they have evidence/proof ... is kind of self-conflicting. Likewise are the people who insist they have evidence/proof because they have faith (and the more with that faith, the merrier) are just as entertaining. One camp tends to inhabit organized religion, the other camp tends to inhabit those 'educated in science' without actually being the grunts on the research field (most of them have close encounters of the "WTF" kind enough to understand that we only marginally understand).

Generally speaking - the wisest standpoint to take on any and all issues is that 'there is more to the story than we currently know.' Be that with the debate over origins (and subsequent evolution - abiogenesis is a theory necessarily separate from evolution because evolutionary theory requires a self-replicating system) - or a debate over the merits of various religions and their respective deities.

We should always be ready to accept that our viewpoint will have to adjust to new information that may or may not be convenient for our fragile and meager understanding of the world.

Islam doesn't govern itself on faith,it has proof to back it up

 

[Aim64C]

Islam doesn't govern itself on faith,it has proof to back it up

That... kind of exemplifies the point.

I am not saying Islam is wrong.

Though I do believe it is very dangerous to be divisive regarding religious beliefs - particularly pertaining to the afterlife. The promise of heaven and the threat of hell (or other divine retribution) has empowered many men in their mortal quests. In Christianity - it is unfortunately missed that Jesus' mission was not to save us from 'original sin' and other dogmatic nonsense created by the Church (later) to secure its relevance. It was, instead, to save the Jews from an oppressive religious system that enriched the Pharisee, who were corrupt and owned much of Israel's land.

But it is hard to standardize a religion of "Personal Judaism" - so it all became political and one had to accept Jesus as the Messiah or be condemned to Hell. Makes for an awesome recruiting poster.

Anyway - the whole point I was going to get around to is that it has been the goal of men to play parties against each other (even so far as using various religions and interpretations thereof) in order to further their own ambitions. Even within Islam - there are factions. There's some having a blast killing each other in Iraq right now. Just as there were (and probably still are) Catholics and Protestants going at it in and around Ireland (and other parts of Europe).

I've thought long and hard about the issue of mortality and what lay beyond. I've thought about what makes sense, and what does not.

There is a conclusion I've come to. When we die - there are three judgments to be passed upon us. The first is whether or not we choose to be judged. Refusing to come forward to be judged is a self-imposed isolation and relative loneliness amidst a void. The second judgment is "Can you forgive yourself?" When you are stripped bare and the core essence of your soul and deeds have been laid out for all to see - can you accept yourself?

The final judgment is the most critical. Can you forgive others? Will you accept a 'Heaven' where they are present?

This is where the 'Devil' scores his victories. This is where the Church became its own antichrist. By filling people full of expectations about what rewards they will receive, about who will and will not be permitted, etc - a vast number of people can be convinced to not just isolate - but reject God. Give them the arrogance - the hubris to say: "This is not God - I know what God is." Their hearts and minds become closed to anything but the deception.

The second judgment will be my greatest trial. I do not forgive myself easily, and carry a considerable amount of shame regarding my life.

Perhaps it is merely my non-conformist attitude... but the more I analyze most views of the afterlife - the more they appear to be a product of human culture as opposed to truly divine inspiration. Islam mirrors the totalitarian history of the region - Judaism reflects the needs of a nomadic tribe often finding itself in conflict with nearby powers. Christianity has portions of it that echo back to a time when it was illegal to be a Christian - such as Revelations describing the fall of Rome (yet still seen as a prophecy of a time yet to come).

Hinduism reflects the many different empires that have co-existed for centuries while sharing some of the views and influence of Chinese spiritualism.

China was at least honest about it - declaring the Emperor to be something of a deity (or at least worthy of the appreciation of one). Their views tended to center around a sort of mystic science with Taoism providing a framework for both spirituality and the physics of the universe. They also had a highly advanced form of Astrology (interestingly enough - the Three Wise Men told of in Biblical texts were likely Astrologists from India or even as far away as China - they would have seen the astrological signs marking a 'super king' being born in the area of Judea and ventured there, likely pursuing the direct descendants of King David - Jesus was actually born Nobility... his father being a carpenter on the Temple and Jesus taking time to speak to the Rabi and Pharisee in Jerusalem).

Shintoism was largely an ancestral/nature worship that also began to reflect the developing empires, and was well on its way to resembling Hinduism.

Christianity, also, contains a number of artifacts from absorbing other cultures (not just religions). Vernal and Autumnal equinoxes are celebrated, as well as the Winter Solstice (likely the Summer Solstice existed at one time). A number of Christian-oriented dates and holidays are based upon celestial phases.

Religions are a product of man and man's culture. By all means - commune with those around you in celebration of beliefs in the divine - just be careful how much power you give man by association.

 

[EnDash]

I am 100% sure because its fact that the universe has to have an intelligent designer, whether its allah, Brahman, or the Father. However, with the Quran and its scientific
miracles, I know islam is right.

Btw, not sure if you know this, but evolution is mathematically impossible, at least by random chance

Wish I could write more but its hard to do so on mobile

it's ok, you can take your time if you're on mobile. i will answer one post at a time.

how do you know the universe has an intelligent designer? how can you prove it? if indeed it was a fact that a diety created everything intelligently i really don't think we would be having this conversation. you can't prove intelligent design just as much as you can't prove random design.

frankly, i wish god was more direct and simple in transferring his intentions to us. everything we have today are interpretations of interpretations of an old book done by people long dead, with words that have many diffrent meanings and lots of riddles and secrets that we have to discover. you said yourself that 6 days might just as well be 6 eons, so what is it? 6 days or 6 eons? the thing is that you can give two people the exact same quran book, and they will come out with very diffrent interpertations, we can see that all around the world.

and by my interpertation, allah is mathematically impossible. and i could have done a much better job at designing this world. in fact i would only make one simple change, don't create the tree of knowledge. stop with stupid tests and ulterior motives and just get rid of the concept of sin. my final interpertation is that if god, on all of it's diffrent incarnations, is real and existing. then he is not worthy of worship from anyone.

 

[Donald J Trump]

60/40

i am not sure, he could be real, but there is more proof he is not.

 

[OMGitsShakra]

The universe didnt come frome nothing. It was already here. It was ALWAYS here. The universe is energy period. Nothing makes energy and nothing destroys energy.

logically speaking, obviously the universe didn't come from nothing. Nothing has properties, nothing exists...we have created the idea of "nothing" so nothing technically is something even though its describing "nothing". Make sense?

Now as far as God and the world goes, it feels obvious that a higher power of sorts influenced the evolution of life as we know it (I know evolution is debatable, they cannot prove it even could exist without a few dinosaur and plant discoveries) but anyways..so what we know of God is through texts and via our own intuition. We know that God, if he exists, can create, destroy, and influence. What else can do these 3 things? Humans. Animals. Plants. God "knows" morals, ultimate knowledge, he knows chaos and order inside and out. We humans cannot understand chaos and order without one or other, and we obviously will never have the ultimate knowledge because we cannot even comprehend the knowledge that God would know. If humans and animals though can have God like qualities, how is it far to say God couldn't exist? Humans have the same capabilities of God so to speak, but on a smaller scale. We were literally created as smaller not so powerful versions of him..but tell me...can't we create life? So does God..can we not destroy life? So can God, can we love unconditionally and forgive? So can God. Can we be responsible for our own lives and decisions without God's help? Yes, that doesn't mean he doesn't help. The pattern goes, something is created by some means, that something has an existence that effects everything else around it, EVERYTHING no matter how big or small, then at some point that existence "dies" and as we see, gets cycled back into the circle of life. This is repeating pattern that never ceases to exist, is it really impossible just based off this logic that God or a afterlife couldn't exist?

Now as far as evil goes and bad things happening, i personally do not believe in any man made religions. I believe that only you and you alone can have a relationship with God and only you can choose to embrace that relationship or deny it. Only you can choose what you believe. If you do not believe in God and his power, then thats fine. God will reach out to you at some point when the time is right for you to come to understand something as wonderful as God, when you can comprehend that life is much much more complicated that what humans are capable of understanding.

We are made in God's image, but we do not have his knowledge. To say something absolutely doesn't exist or is impossible is no different than a religious person trying to convince you the only way to properly live life is to do it their way religiously. Both points of view are from close minded individuals and are both guilty of the same one street mindset. Now to say you think there is a possibility of God and argue against his existence, that's just ignorant and hypocritical. Just like man made religion tries to argue against science, thats just illogical. Religious peoples should stop underestimating God or categorizing him as having the same selfish pity egotistical intentions as humans. The only difference between us and God is that God can be all loving, all forgiving, and handle all the knowledge without getting upset. Humans are not capable of these feats unless they have reached a certain point in their lives religiously or spiritually, or unless they have managed to achieve a comfort zone in which they are just content with not knowing or are able to accept that either is a possibility.

 

[OMGitsShakra]

it's ok, you can take your time if you're on mobile. i will answer one post at a time.

how do you know the universe has an intelligent designer? how can you prove it? if indeed it was a fact that a diety created everything intelligently i really don't think we would be having this conversation. you can't prove intelligent design just as much as you can't prove random design.

frankly, i wish god was more direct and simple in transferring his intentions to us. everything we have today are interpretations of interpretations of an old book done by people long dead, with words that have many diffrent meanings and lots of riddles and secrets that we have to discover. you said yourself that 6 days might just as well be 6 eons, so what is it? 6 days or 6 eons? the thing is that you can give two people the exact same quran book, and they will come out with very diffrent interpertations, we can see that all around the world.

and by my interpertation, allah is mathematically impossible. and i could have done a much better job at designing this world. in fact i would only make one simple change, don't create the tree of knowledge. stop with stupid tests and ulterior motives and just get rid of the concept of sin. my final interpertation is that if god, on all of it's diffrent incarnations, is real and existing. then he is not worthy of worship from anyone.

Maybe people are looking in the wrong places for answers. I used to go to the bible and believe it was really the one true way and only way of life. Then i traveled...went to school...exposed myself to all different religions (which mind you, being raised as a southern baptist, was like denouncing my Christianity) explored culture and traditions and came into a understanding that is hard to explain...obvious to me and certain individuals.....but at the same time very very difficult to come by. You literally have to be able to critically think about all perspectives and immerse yourself in all possibilities in life before it can even start to make sense, even in things like black holes could possibly not exist, time travel could possibly exist, immortality could exist, science could be wrong etc. The first step to understanding our purpose and this world is by accepting that you may not be right and that the way you have come to believe the world exists could be different. I know that makes me sound bad, like im staying i know im right, but its hard to explain. In my mind with my relationship i have with God, I have no doubt what so ever in my beliefs. What prevents this doubt? Just years and years of contemplating the world around us, human emotions, how the world operates, distinguishing the human traits that run this world and trusting yourself. It took a while, but when you start to learn to trust your own intuition and listen to the world around you (not the cars, music, or chatter of people unfazed by why they are here) but to nature, to patterns in the universe, to animals and to other peoples experiences and listen to them without a biased mind, you can start to see the beauty and complexity of the world..while overlooking all the shittyness in it (and trust me, im very aware that we live in a potentially wonderful, but also awful horrible world)

 

[EnDash]

Maybe people are looking in the wrong places for answers. I used to go to the bible and believe it was really the one true way and only way of life. Then i traveled...went to school...exposed myself to all different religions (which mind you, being raised as a southern baptist, was like denouncing my Christianity) explored culture and traditions and came into a understanding that is hard to explain...obvious to me and certain individuals.....but at the same time very very difficult to come by. You literally have to be able to critically think about all perspectives and immerse yourself in all possibilities in life before it can even start to make sense, even in things like black holes could possibly not exist, time travel could possibly exist, immortality could exist, science could be wrong etc. The first step to understanding our purpose and this world is by accepting that you may not be right and that the way you have come to believe the world exists could be different. I know that makes me sound bad, like im staying i know im right, but its hard to explain. In my mind with my relationship i have with God, I have no doubt what so ever in my beliefs. What prevents this doubt? Just years and years of contemplating the world around us, human emotions, how the world operates, distinguishing the human traits that run this world and trusting yourself. It took a while, but when you start to learn to trust your own intuition and listen to the world around you (not the cars, music, or chatter of people unfazed by why they are here) but to nature, to patterns in the universe, to animals and to other peoples experiences and listen to them without a biased mind, you can start to see the beauty and complexity of the world..while overlooking all the shittyness in it (and trust me, im very aware that we live in a potentially wonderful, but also awful horrible world)

i understand what you are saying, but i simply can't look at all the good in the world without acknowledging the bad side of it. don't get me wrong, i'm grateful for the life i have. by most standards i have a pretty great life. and i can look and point at many great things in this world both in nature and in humans. but that doesn't mean all the bad parts lose their meaning or disappear.

i've also spent years and years contemplating the world around us, and i'm sorry but i came to a conclusion very diffrent from yours. this world is hell and people who are good in their heart will suffer in this world, people who truly believe in god are being used by people who don't believe at all in god, even if they claim so. people who work their entire life gets a harder and harder life the more they continue to work hard and people who work very little get richer and richer and work less and less. not to mention the absurd belief that by reducing this group or that from the world we will get world peace, like getting rid of all jews or getting rid of all muslims is the only solution and the most desired solution. somehow the people who have the most power to change things and help everyone are doing all they can to continue and maintain the way this world works, and it looks like god is backing them up, being able to do the most but doing the most little.

in the bible, god had no problem raining fire from the sky to destroy a city of sinners, or kill all the firstborns of the egyptians, or to flood the entire goddamn world because it got too greedy and sinful. but today he is what? too tried to do something about syria? about north korea? about the palestinians or the pakistani prostitues or indian women being sold to marry rich old men. i have realised that god decided to do nothing, decided to let those things continue and innocent people to suffer. god is everywhere, seeing all those atrocities. god is all powerful, and can stop them easily. god is merciful, but only when he feels like it. being god doesn't give him the right to decide who will get beat up, raped and murdered and why. he doesn't get to judge us considering how disgustingly evil he is, and how disgustingly evil the world he created by design is. i don't know if god is real or not, but if he is real then he should be judged and punished for every atrocity commited by humans, because he allowed it to happen.