[VS] Kakashi Hatake vs Tobirama Senju

[Bronze]

Minato counter that with FTG = manga canon. End of the story.

How does he teleport if he doesn't know when the Jutsu is casted?

 

[Optimistic]

Minato counter that with FTG = manga canon. End of the story.

ahahahahahahahaha

Except Tobirama/Minato aren't giant statues which are easy targets. Also the fact that the Mazo was extracted first and then summoned to Madara. Kakashi landed a Kamui on the Mazo before it was summoned to Madara. So you can see this wasn't instant whereas Hiraishin is.

The bigger the target the longer it takes to Kamui, Tobirama/Mianto are smaller targets Kakashi has no problem warping small objects. The mazo was summoned Kakashi used kamui then the mazo instantly warped away but still lost an arm.

Fight starts, Kakashi uses Kamui. Fight ends there and then. A bloodlusted Kakashi beats Tobirama.

 

[Ababeel]

How does he teleport if he doesn't know when the Jutsu is casted?

Like how he did in the manga.

 

[Bronze]

Like how he did in the manga.

Except that was from 14 year old Obito whos Kamui is slower than Kakashi's. Try again.

 

[Touken]

The bigger the target the longer it takes to Kamui, Tobirama/Mianto are smaller targets Kakashi has no problem warping small objects. The mazo was summoned Kakashi used kamui then the mazo instantly warped away but still lost an arm.

Fight starts, Kakashi uses Kamui. Fight ends there and then. A bloodlusted Kakashi beats Tobirama.

Except Kakashi didn't need to build-up chakra to Kamui the Mazo because he was only aiming for it's head. The time it took to Kamui the Mazo's is exactly the time it takes to Kamui Minato/Tobirama. There was a time-frame between the Mazo being extracted and summoned to Madara. Hiraishin doesn't have any such time-frame.

Tobirama senses the build-up of chakra and blocks his LoS with Suiton or throws a kunai elsewhere and teleports to it. Kamui has a time-frame; the building up of chakra and when it's executed it isn't instant giving Minato/Tobirama ample time to throw a kunai and teleport to it.

 

[Ababeel]

Except that was from 14 year old Obito whos Kamui is slower than Kakashi's. Try again.

Good. so
1- Even though both of them are Kamui there is slower and there is faster.
Thus
2- just because FTG has the same name, there is also slower and faster.
therefore,
just because FTG, summoning, Kamui are ALL S/T jutsus that does not mean they are all at the same speed.
In conclusion
just because kakashi did it against a summoning jutsu, that does not mean he can do it against FTG
or else
just because Minato did it against obito that mans he can do it against kakashi
because according to you
all S/T ninjutsu are on the same speed.

 

[Avinash012]

Except that was from 14 year old Obito whos Kamui is slower than Kakashi's. Try again.

How can Obito being 14y old change anything here?

Kamui is not faster than FTG :manga fact

No Kakashi's Kamui is not faster than Obito's,where did u get that from?

 

[Bronze]

Good. so
1- Even though both of them are Kamui there is slower and there is faster.
Thus
2- just because FTG has the same name, there is also slower and faster.
therefore,
just because FTG, summoning, Kamui are ALL S/T jutsus that does not mean they are all at the same speed.
In conclusion
just because kakashi did it against a summoning jutsu, that does not mean he can do it against FTG
or else
just because Minato did it against obito that mans he can do it against kakashi
because according to you
all S/T ninjutsu are on the same speed.

What you said doesn't matter and doesn't coincide with my post at all. Minato needed FTG V2 to finish 14 year old Obito. 30 year old Obito couldn't keep up with Kakashi's Kamui. Not to also mention Kakashi Kamui Gedo Mazo literally the moment it got summoned which impressed Madara.

Kakashi one shots FTG as he one shots Minato and Tobirama:kakashi:

 

[Gold Lightning]

Just to make a case for the speed of Kakashi's kamui, he engulfed the entire body of Bijuu Mode Narutos shadow clone so fast that Obito with both a sharingan and Rinnegan could not see it.

Even if Tobirama can manage to escape it the first time, I doubt it will be without losing a limb or two.

 

[Ababeel]

What you said doesn't matter and doesn't coincide with my post at all. Minato needed FTG V2 to finish 14 year old Obito. 30 year old Obito couldn't keep up with Kakashi's Kamui. Not to also mention Kakashi Kamui Gedo Mazo literally the moment it got summoned which impressed Madara.

Kakashi one shots FTG as he one shots Minato and Tobirama:kakashi:

Lol
KAkashi's Kamui was counted by Obito's Kamui the same Kamui that Minato stomped.

No, kakashi one shots madara. U_U

 

[China IL]

Tobirama can ftg two fully grown Kuramas with ease. He has shown better chakra reserve/control feats than Kakashi has. The fact that he can fight Juubito without losing half of his chakra reserves is a feat itself.

Btw,

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[Bogard]

Honestly by feats, Kakashi's kamui should be capable to one shot everyone bar Obito. The only thing saving Madara right now is plot. Kishi made this jutsu too hax

 

[Bronze]

Lol
KAkashi's Kamui was counted by Obito's Kamui the same Kamui that Minato stomped.

No, kakashi one shots madara. U_U

Really? [

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].

The fact you spammed off topic mentioning Madara just shows how mad you are from the truth. How pity.

 

[Ababeel]

Really? [

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].

The fact you spammed off topic mentioning Madara just shows how mad you are from the truth. How pity.

so? What I said is
" Kakashi's Kamui was counted by Obito's Kamui the same Kamui that Minato stomped. "
obito did not use Kamui in that scan.

The fact you spammed off topic mentioning Minato just shows how mad you are from the truth. How pity.

Or you can admit that madara has nothing against Kamui, so kakashi one shots him. U_U

 

[Bronze]

so? What I said is
" Kakashi's Kamui was counted by Obito's Kamui the same Kamui that Minato stomped. "
obito did not use Kamui in that scan.

The fact you spammed off topic mentioning Minato just shows how mad you are from the truth. How pity.

Doesn't change the fact he couldn't keep up and got fooled meaning he wont activate Kamui.

Not really, because you first mentioned Minato saying this ''Minato counter that with FTG = manga canon. End of the story.''.

Hypocrites these days smh. Once again, pity and sad for spamming off topic and lying.

 

[End of Days]

^@ End Of Days. Kakashi's Kamui was easily spotted by Obito numerous times in the manga, it's not difficult to spot.

Rasengan, narutos clone were swallowed by kamui in front of his own eyes, obito had no idea lol

Do the math? What use is that going to do, aside from waste what little chakra he has? If he does that, where will Tobirama go? The aim's to kill him, not to Kamui him to the other dimension. Kakashi would have to follow.

getting sucked by kamui is gg and you know it, alternatively kakashi can only absorb head or a vital part of chest to kill

Well obviously if Tobirama was going to teleport behind Obito it would've been to attack him in some form - which his normal speed is used for. If he teleported, then teleported again, it would be a small frame in which he'd be there.

tobirama wasn't going to attack, Naruto was gonna attack, they had found the senjutsu weakness by this time
obviously he will have to stay at a mark for a time to see kakashi or sense kakashi, slight delay is all kakashi needs

And, lol, Kage Bushin are made of chakra, it's not something you can argue against. At any rate, the Kage Bushin can re-call the original. [

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]

I knew you were gonna post this, the clone had a kunai in his hand and that was the destination
Once again chakra acts only as medium, to teleport to someplace you need a mark, said and shown so many times

 

[Sendai Aka No Ou]

Rasengan, narutos clone were swallowed by kamui in front of his own eyes, obito had no idea lol

Obito misinterpreted what Kakashi was doing. He looked at the Rasengan and thought that was what was being absorbed, but Kakashi intended to do it to the clone.

getting sucked by kamui is gg and you know it, alternatively kakashi can only absorb head or a vital part of chest to kill

No, getting absorbed to the next dimension is not GG. Look at the stipulations, the intent is to kill.

The person being absorbed it able to feel what is happening, meaning Tobirama can react to it and evade.

tobirama wasn't going to attack, Naruto was gonna attack, they had found the senjutsu weakness by this time
obviously he will have to stay at a mark for a time to see kakashi or sense kakashi, slight delay is all kakashi needs

That's a different situation entirely. When a Hirashin user teleports there is nothing stopping them teleporting when they reappear.

I knew you were gonna post this, the clone had a kunai in his hand and that was the destination
Once again chakra acts only as medium, to teleport to someplace you need a mark, said and shown so many times

Really? That's not what happened and you know it. Minato's clone clearly says "I'll bring the original here", not that Minato himself will decide to teleport. And the whole "acting as a medium, not a destination" argument doesn't do you any credit, it's essentially the same thing. The Hirashin tags frequently act as both. This is such a petty argument, even if I were wrong a clone can simply mark itself, not that it's necessary.

 

[KidGamer65]

Kamui is too OP now.

-Gedo Mazo was targeted before teleporting and even though it warped away, it lost an arm in the process.

-Hiraishin has the same basic function as the summoning jutsu.

If he's targeted with Kamui it doesn't matter if he has instantaneous teleportation, cause he'll still get hit, and that assumes he can even react to Kamui in time to evade. Denying this is pretty much denying what happened with the Mazo. The only way to not lose to Kamui (Obito or Kakashi's versions) is to be too fast to ever get targeted by it, and that isn't happening when Tobirama has no intel and Kakashi is bloodlust.

The person being absorbed it able to feel what is happening, meaning Tobirama can react to it and evade.

If he waits till the barrier has been formed on him and the warp process begins, one of two things happens.

1. He can't react to the warp speed in time to use Hiraishin and he gets sucked in or loses a vital as End of Days said.

2. He still loses a vital, but doesn't get sucked in, as seen where the Gedo Mazo was targeted, then it warped away and still lost its arm. What you are suggesting Tobirama will do is the exact same thing.

Except Kakashi didn't need to build-up chakra to Kamui the Mazo because he was only aiming for it's head. The time it took to Kamui the Mazo's is exactly the time it takes to Kamui Minato/Tobirama. There was a time-frame between the Mazo being extracted and summoned to Madara. Hiraishin doesn't have any such time-frame.

lol? The Mazo's head is bigger than Tobirama's whole body, so that doesn't help your case. The build up of chakra is pretty much nonexistent due to how quick it goes by, especially for smaller targets.

So? That time frame doesn't change the fact that if Tobirama waits till he's been targeted with Kamui to escape, its already too late. Your method of predicting it won't work due to the extremely quick and practically nonexistent build up and the fact he has zero intel on it.

Tobirama senses the build-up of chakra and blocks his LoS with Suiton or throws a kunai elsewhere and teleports to it. Kamui has a time-frame; the building up of chakra and when it's executed it isn't instant giving Minato/Tobirama ample time to throw a kunai and teleport to it.

The build up of chakra phase is pretty much nonexistent at this point, considering he was able to use Kamui in time to rip the Mazo's arm off (Which is much bigger than any human) mid teleport.

Not to mention he has zero intel on the jutsu, so blocking LoS or preparing to evade it isn't going to work.

 

[Touken]

lol? The Mazo's head is bigger than Tobirama's whole body, so that doesn't help your case. The build up of chakra is pretty much nonexistent due to how quick it goes by, especially for smaller targets.

Kakashi had time to prep his Kamui. He started prepping it

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because he knew what was going to come and he knew that he has to

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Extracting something isn't instant and it's obvious that he had at least a 4 second time-frame because extracting the Mazo isn't instant and there was still a gap between it being fully extracted and being summoned to Madara. He hasn't got that time-frame in this battle and to use any MS technique bar Susanoo you need to build-up chakra in your eyes.

So? That time frame doesn't change the fact that if Tobirama waits till he's been targeted with Kamui to escape, its already too late. Your method of predicting it won't work due to the extremely quick and practically nonexistent build up and the fact he has zero intel on it.

Too late? The fact that Kakashi completely missed it's head and got it's arm instead shows he still has time to FTG out. The Mazo's massive as well and

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If you're saying it's as quick as it is then Kamui would have taken the Mazo out. Tobirama FTGs out of this situation and he loses no limbs, especially since the gap between the Mazo's head and arm is bigger than the gap between Tobirama's head and any of his other limbs.

The build up of chakra phase is pretty much nonexistent at this point, considering he was able to use Kamui in time to rip the Mazo's arm off (Which is much bigger than any human) mid teleport.

Not to mention he has zero intel on the jutsu, so blocking LoS or preparing to evade it isn't going to work.

He started building up the chakra while the Mazo was being extracted and as I said in my last point, he was aiming for the Mazo's head and instead got it's arm even though it's a way bigger target than Tobirama.

He has intel on MS techniques,

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and considering all MS techs are one-shots, I'm pretty sure he'll be prepared.

As soon as the battle starts, Kakashi will prep his Kamui and Tobirama will throw his kunai at him. If Kakashi tries to land a Kamui on him, he teleports while losing no limbs because he isn't as big as a target as the Mazo.

 

[EZQ]

Except Kakashi didn't need to build-up chakra to Kamui the Mazo because he was only aiming for it's head. The time it took to Kamui the Mazo's is exactly the time it takes to Kamui Minato/Tobirama. There was a time-frame between the Mazo being extracted and summoned to Madara. Hiraishin doesn't have any such time-frame.

Tobirama senses the build-up of chakra and blocks his LoS with Suiton or throws a kunai elsewhere and teleports to it. Kamui has a time-frame; the building up of chakra and when it's executed it isn't instant giving Minato/Tobirama ample time to throw a kunai and teleport to it.

Senses the build-up chakra? Please tell me you're joking, the build-up lasts like a half of a second coming to Kakashi's Kamui, even if Tobirama senses it there's no way he will be on time of blocking the line of sight... Please, this is a lame argument.

Kakashi has a time frame? That tame frame is smaller than the time frame it takes Tobirama to take a kunai and throw it definitely. (cough susano arrow cough.)

Also... Your argument is based on Tobirama having knowledge of Kamui, because if he "senses" the chakra build-up (no way, too fast and too short), how would he react to it if he doesn't even know what the jutsu is about, also we are assuming that Tobirama starts the battle with a kunai in his hand and a marking on it, so it would be prep...

Tobirama needs PREP and KNOWLEDGE of kamui to win this, your argument was butraped, bye bye.

^^^^
Just read your post above... Kakashi didn't prep. the Kamui when the Mazou got out of Obito's body, he activated MS just when Minato asked him to do something, that's a half of second.