Tobirama's strength as an Edo

[Tobby17]

Some people seem to think Tobirama is almost at full strength as an Edo because of this statement

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but it's obvious Kishi has retconned it,

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Madara said things like, ''Once hailed as the fastest, just look at your pathetic self NOW'', ''you can't bring out your true strength''

Now people wanna deny it and claim that the edo Hokages including Tobirama are almost at full power, but NO there's obviously been a retcon, remember Madara was supposed to be 'beyond his prime'.

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but then:

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Here is Madara implying again that he wasn't at full strength as an edo, although he was stated to be beyond his prime as an Edo. So obviously the edos are nowhere near their full strength, according to Kishi now. It's obviously a retcon to the previous opinion that they were near their full strength or beyond their previous full strength.


So I hope this clears up all this bs about the Edo Hokages being close to their full power, there's being a retcon guys, apart from maybe Minato who got a power up instead :yeah:

 

[Optimistic]

Seems kind of fishy, that means Healthy Itachi > Edo Itachi. Well if Kishi says so then its ok i guess.

 

[l3m0npl3dg3]

madaras statement has already made it clear that an edo body is weaker than a human body also the translations you use are different from two versions I saw

 

[Vandenreich]

Seems kind of fishy, that means Healthy Itachi > Edo Itachi. Well if Kishi says so then its ok i guess.

Was Itachi ever even healthy?

 

[KingHashirama]

Beyond his prime is a reference to being EMS + other KKG, which he was.

 

[Ver55e]

But edo itachi > itachi . Because if itachi used his MS he might go blind but I know that's not a reason . What your saying is if the kages where alive they would actually get a scratch on Madara , hell even defeat him. just saying

 

[Optimistic]

Was Itachi ever even healthy?

Yes he was, the moment he gained MS and the weapons he was healthy and Part 1 Itachi is defiantly more healthy than the Itachi that fought Sasuke(who relied on pills due to his illness kicking in).

 

[Kaneki Kun]

So for all you Lord Madara haters, I told you so

 

[RikudouMadara]

I disagree...nothing against you....but I see it as Madara saying there is a reason you brothers can't bring out your true strength because they lack the resolve to be as ruthless as he. May not be that, but I feel it has nothing to do with Tobirama being an Edo. I also believe Madara was saying your pathetic self nao.. considering Tobirama was utterly defeated. Not because he is an Edo nao and wasn't in the past.

Madara says that in reference to skill. Skill is not power....I believe their skills are the same when they were alive. Virtually full strength means so close it is barely noticeable, in my guess. I disagree...though in Madaras case I believe due to the fake Rinnegan he couldn't use it to its full potential. This is how I interpret these scans...you of course have your own opinion. I'm just saying I see differently is all.

 

[Waltz]

There's no retcon...

The Kage's were brought back at virtually full strength and it is easily seen contrasting what Tobirama and Hashirama were capable whiled being pitted against Hiruzen as opposed to currently. Madara always thought of Tobirama being pathetic and as he was once hailed as the fasted Shinobi he's currently being degraded. They cannot bring out their true potential because of the gulf between Madara current skill as opposed to what they have to offer; interpreting that he is now elevated to the point that he could finish them off before they are even able to do so. Edo Madara is beyond his prime being that:

-> He is able to produce Hashirama's Jutsu at will
-> Kabuto decided to portray Hashirama's unfathomable power through Edo Madara
-> Edo Madara had the Rin'neganl.
-> Edo Madara is technically a perfect reflection of the Rikudo being Uchiha and Senju in one body as well as wielding his eyes.

This is Madara in his prime: [

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]

Even though Kabuto's version of the Edo Tensei superseded Orochimaru's it still wasn't perfect which naturally would put power restrictions on all jutsu. Secondly, without being an Edo Tensei Madara would no longer have an excuse for holding back in terms of power as while zombified he could afford to die and willfully take damage which he could have negated given the reserved potential within his arsenal [Rin'negan techs, EMS techs, Mokuton Techs]. Thirdly, being a living being would allow him to experience the Adrenaline rush or canonically worded as 'blood rushing through his veins' which biologically would enhance his battle ability. Madara's motive was never a showing of Jutsu.
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[xxSAGExx]

Yes he was, the moment he gained MS and the weapons he was healthy and Part 1 Itachi is defiantly more healthy than the Itachi that fought Sasuke(who relied on pills due to his illness kicking in).

Itachi gain the weapons years after getting his MS (13) and he died at 21, in that gap he got the weapons. We don't know if he had it in part one since he never showed it or hinted it, for all we know he got it off panel in Shippudenn. Itachi was sick the moment we saw him, that's way it said he used Medicine to prolong his life until Sasuke was strong enough so his illness developed around the time he joined Akatsuki or slightly after. Obito wouldn't know about the disease if it wasn't before because he trained Itachi before hand (Itachi called him teacher) so would have noticed something around that time.

Seems kind of fishy, that means Healthy Itachi > Edo Itachi. Well if Kishi says so then its ok i guess.

Well edo Itachi doesn't have to worry about dying if he wants to push himself which is what his disease would do to alive Itachi. He doesn't have to worry about the side effects of the MS jutsus and Susanoo was the worst pain of the 3 MS jutsus since it aches all the cells in your body as stated by Sasuke and Itachi felt it worst due to his illness as Sasuke wondered what Itachi must have felt. He doesn't have to worry about becoming exhausted from his low stamina as well. Plus Healthy Itachi is when he was 13 with a new MS and no Totsuka blade and no yata mirror since he shown to have no disease at that time. Obito said Itachi used medicine to stay alive until Sasuke was strong enough so he can be defeated by his hands and Sasuke wasn't strong in part 1.

But edo itachi > itachi . Because if itachi used his MS he might go blind but I know that's not a reason . What your saying is if the kages where alive they would actually get a scratch on Madara , hell even defeat him. just saying

Itachi doesn't have to worry about his Illness, MS jutsus side effects, or his low stamina as an Edo ^.^

 

[ninjastormgenaration33]

Was Itachi ever even healthy?

Yes in part 1 and he got sick around the Kakuzu fight

 

[Bogard]

Kabuto stated he surpassed Orochimaru in the use of edo tensei [

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] and it makes sense when you know Orochimaru's edo tensei bring back people at close to their original strength [

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] when Kabuto's edo tensei bring them back at full strength(according to Onoki, Muu's power is the same) [

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] and with modifications, he can even bring them back beyond their prime [

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]

Yes Edo Madara was in a state beyond his prime simply because prime Madara was this one [

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], not the old one with Rinnengan and Kabuto managed to bring him back like in his prime with the additions he got when he was old. Problem is that despite this, it seems that his state as an edo restricted his possible Rinnengan moves due to having fake eyes, like the gedo mazo summoning [

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] and possibly the Ringo hengoku as well

So while Edo Madara was indeed stronger than his prime self, he couldn't use the full potential of his eyes due to having fake Rinnengan eyes

 

[Bronze]

I think you're interpreting the the scans incorrectly here.

Your first scan of Madara and Tobirama's conversation, he only said the difference in gap between their ''SKILLS''. Skills does not equal to power. Its just the fact Madara is too strong that he is rendering his opponents skills looking too pathetic. Their strength is not brought out due to Madara's new power ups.

Now for your other scan of Madara's Rinne Tensie, that was a mistranslated. VIZ clarified that Madara actually said ''now he can fight for real'' implying Madara in his Edo state cannot feel the excitement which makes him holding back his strength.

Edo Tobirama is at almost as strong as his alive state. There is no retcon.

@T Bogard: There is no evidence Edo Tensie was restricting some of his Rinnegan techniques. Bijuu were merely speculating.

 

[KingHashirama]

I think you're interpreting the the scans incorrectly here.

Your first scan of Madara and Tobirama's conversation, he only said the difference in gap between their ''SKILLS''. Skills does not equal to power. Its just the fact Madara is too strong that he is rendering his opponents skills looking too pathetic. Their strength is not brought out due to Madara's new power ups.

Now for your other scan of Madara's Rinne Tensie, that was a mistranslated. VIZ clarified that Madara actually said ''now he can fight for real'' implying Madara in his Edo state cannot feel the excitement which makes him holding back his strength.

Edo Tobirama is at almost as strong as his alive state. There is no retcon.

@T Bogard: There is no evidence Edo Tensie was restricting some of his Rinnegan techniques. Bijuu were merely speculating.

You just interepreted the whole thing wrong..


He talks about it being a coincidence of some sort that the Senju cannot bring out their true powers (otherwise he would be stopped).

 

[Bronze]

You just interepreted the whole thing wrong..


He talks about it being a coincidence of some sort that the Senju cannot bring out their true powers (otherwise he would be stopped).

You are the last person to comment on false interpretation. No offence.

He says that because Madara is too strong that makes it impossible for them to bring out their true powers. He supports it by saying ''There is a gulf between our SKILLS NOW''. It implies Madara has gotten stronger to the point where they cannot keep up with him.

Tobirama said it that they are virtually at full strength. Now, who knows about Tobirama's full power? Tobirama himself or Madara a separate entity.

 

[Mattek2008]

I disagree...nothing against you....but I see it as Madara saying there is a reason you brothers can't bring out your true strength because they lack the resolve to be as ruthless as he. May not be that, but I feel it has nothing to do with Tobirama being an Edo. I also believe Madara was saying your pathetic self nao.. considering Tobirama was utterly defeated. Not because he is an Edo nao and wasn't in the past.

Madara says that in reference to skill. Skill is not power....I believe their skills are the same when they were alive. Virtually full strength means so close it is barely noticeable, in my guess. I disagree...though in Madaras case I believe due to the fake Rinnegan he couldn't use it to its full potential. This is how I interpret these scans...you of course have your own opinion. I'm just saying I see differently is all.

I agree with you on every topic except itachi.......^^

 

[RikudouMadara]

I agree with you on every topic except itachi.......^^

Haha thanks....I'm glad we agree majority of the time. As you said great minds think alike. >_O Hopefully were not two bumbling idiots thinking we have great minds. XD Lets just believe in the first one! XD Thanks again!

 

[KingHashirama]

You are the last person to comment on false interpretation. No offence.

He says that because Madara is too strong that makes it impossible for them to bring out their true powers. He supports it by saying ''There is a gulf between our SKILLS NOW''. It implies Madara has gotten stronger to the point where they cannot keep up with him.

Tobirama said it that they are virtually at full strength. Now, who knows about Tobirama's full power? Tobirama himself or Madara a separate entity.

Well i'm not the one who relies on hype for his favorite character, but then demands feats for everyone else =].

Madara says, that he is too strong so they can't bring out their true powers? i see.. But how could that be a coincidence? Yes He does say there is a vast gap between out skills now.. Madara has gotten stronger, and the Senju bros can't bring out their true power.. having a vast gap between skills is bound to happen with that.

Yes Tobirama acknowledged it. But what is virtually (nearly; almost.) close? the ratio depends. Edo Madara > Eye less non-SM Madara.. if you wanna talk about power.. but he himself acknowledged that now he can be his true self.

 

[Ovan]

Well true.. They came back with only a fraction of their power. That's why Madara was so eager to come back to life even though he had a never ending edo body.