[Discussion] without KKG , TOP 10 ninjas

[sgt]

tobirama does not have bloodline limit please follow the manga better and open your eyes. He is master with Water element and does have space time technique that is all.. by those he should actually be even higher than Kisame. Where kisame was more dependant on Samehada for fusing with it and stuff.

 

[Red Slayer]

Orochimaru isn't there. He can summon only Tobirama and Hashirama who were beaten by Hiruzen.

Inaccurate.​

​

;/ dont be butthurt

 

[Orochimagus]

Wrong, Hirudora. Wood Release is a combination of Earth, Water, and a strong Yang affinity. Hence bloodline limit. Tobirama does not hold that ability. Also, just because you have two elements necessary to make a KKG you don't always get it either. Not every Mist ninja gets Ice Release for example. Also, special properties don't equate to KKG. Show me where Karin's KKG is in here:

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Sorry Bantos but the manga has already supported the fact that Sakura is stronger than Tsunade. God of Shinobi said so. Tsunade's student also said so. Surely Tsunade has more experience but even early first arc Sakura without the seal could hold her own against Sasori. Current Sakura is a monster.

As for the sannin thing, Orochimaru without his arms, a weakened body AND outnumbered was able to compete with Tsunade. Now with his arms, a healthy body, Wood Release, and Dragon Sage mode I doubt Tsunade could compete. There is a reason Orochimaru is called the genius of the sannin. A physical type like Tsunade cannot handle a wall like Orochimaru but she'd trump Jiraiya. They're kindas like the rock paper scissors game.

Oro(Wall)>Tsunade(Taijutsu)>Jiraiya(Genjutsu)>Oro>Tsunade>Jiraiya>And so on.

 

[Mr Hiru]

Wrong, Hirudora. Wood Release is a combination of Earth, Water, and a strong Yang affinity. Hence bloodline limit. Tobirama does not hold that ability. Also, just because you have two elements necessary to make a KKG you don't always get it either. Not every Mist ninja gets Ice Release for example. Also, special properties don't equate to KKG. Show me where Karin's KKG is in here:

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Sorry Bantos but the manga has already supported the fact that Sakura is stronger than Tsunade. God of Shinobi said so. Tsunade's student also said so. Surely Tsunade has more experience but even early first arc Sakura without the seal could hold her own against Sasori. Current Sakura is a monster.

As for the sannin thing, Orochimaru without his arms, a weakened body AND outnumbered was able to compete with Tsunade. Now with his arms, a healthy body, Wood Release, and Dragon Sage mode I doubt Tsunade could compete. There is a reason Orochimaru is called the genius of the sannin. A physical type like Tsunade cannot handle a wall like Orochimaru but she'd trump Jiraiya. They're kindas like the rock paper scissors game.

Oro(Wall)>Tsunade(Taijutsu)>Jiraiya(Genjutsu)>Oro>Tsunade>Jiraiya>And so on.

Wrong, Orochimagus. Kekkei Genkai is a rare trait inside the clan, and Kekkei Totta is a rare trait among Kekkei Genkai users. Your rebuttal is playing under the assumption that 'I supposedly said that' every Senju have Wood Release, thing that has not been mentioned by my fingers in this topic.

Where did I say that every Senju awakened the Mokuton? Nowhere. Furthermore, let's re-read my statement:

Senju DNA is KKG indirectly. It's a KKG when the Senju DNA has enough Yang property to manifest the Mokuton Element (wasn't this a KKG? ).

Also, about Karin... as I said, I never stated that every clan member has a KKG, since by definition, it is a rare trait. So... All these things disproves your rebuttal, entirely.

Therefore, I'm just talking about the Senju who holds enough Yang properties in their chakra, or Uzumaki that holds enough strong chakra to be able to supress Bijuu's chakra.

 

[Kayin]

Naruto
Killer bee
Minato
Third raikage
Mike guy
Jiriaya
Oroachmaru
Kiasame
Hiruzen
Garra

 

[Trollasaur]

KKG= kekkei genkai ( bloodline limit)

without KKG , IMO TOP 10 ninjas are :-

1-Surely BSM naruto
2-BM minato
3-3rd Raikage
4-kakashi
5-DSM kabuto
6-Kisame
7-Gaara
8-SM jiraiya
9-Orochimaru
10-Hiruzen

ADDITIONAL 5
11-Ay
12-Killerbee
13-Sasori
14-Zabuza
15-Danzo

NOTE :- Tobirama , Onoki and diedara have KKGs

U_U whats your top 10 ninjas without KKG??

why would u put pepole with kkg up there?

 

[219Hoosier]

Your list is whack. Minato was known as one of the world's strongest. Tobirama does not have a bloodline limit.

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Tailed beast host should not count since it's also an unfair power source outside of their own ability. Also, Kabuto is FULL of Bloodline Limits.

Taking stuff like that off it's something like this:
1.Tobirama
2.Minato
3.Orochimaru
4.Jiraiya
5.Sakura
6.Tsunade
7.Hiruzen
8.3rd Raikage
9.Might Guy
10.Hanzo

Guys like Kakashi (Who even WITH a Sharingan cowered before Orochimaru), Naruto, Oonoki, Ginkaku, Kisame can't count because they all have outside sources of power such as a Sharingan, Tailed Beast (And or the power residue), or legendary weapons that amplify their abilities (Kisame, Ginkaku.).

It ain't fair to let some characters keep their unnatural buffs while depriving others of theirs.

Replace sakura with Lee and shake the order up some and I like this list

 

[Orochimagus]

Replace sakura with Lee and shake the order up some and I like this list

And you think Lee can handle Sakura why? He has never fought an Akatsuki level opponent or been able to match Sakura's strength even with the Gates. Sakura already surpassed Tsunade and managed to take dozens upon dozens of the ten tails clones down by herself.

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[Orochimagus]

Hirudora, you are changing the definition of KKG.

Kekkei genkai (血継限界; Literally meaning "a TECHNICHE limited to inheritance by blood" or "Bloodline Limit") -- A tech, not a trait. Also, a KKG is a two elemental technique while a KKT is a three elemental technique. This is why only one Senju has been able to use Wood Release and Tsunade cannot. It's not something you automatically get from having enough life energy since Tsunade is a monster in that department. You need to have Earth, Water, AND Yang for that one.

The wiki attributes a KKG to the Senju but not the Uzumaki.

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Suppressing Kurama's chakra comes from a combination of high chakra reserves and fuinjutsu. That's no KKG.

It's not a KKG indirectly just because it's part of the formula needed for a KKG.

 

[Mr Hiru]

Hirudora, you are changing the definition of KKG.

Kekkei genkai (血継限界; Literally meaning "a TECHNICHE limited to inheritance by blood" or "Bloodline Limit") -- A tech, not a trait. Also, a KKG is a two elemental technique while a KKT is a three elemental technique. This is why only one Senju has been able to use Wood Release and Tsunade cannot. It's not something you automatically get from having enough life energy since Tsunade is a monster in that department. You need to have Earth, Water, AND Yang for that one.

The wiki attributes a KKG to the Senju but not the Uzumaki.

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Suppressing Kurama's chakra comes from a combination of high chakra reserves and fuinjutsu. That's no KKG.

It's not a KKG indirectly just because it's part of the formula needed for a KKG.

Okay, and under your definition... can you please explain why the Rinnegan is considered Kekkei Genkai, and it is not a tech, but a trait? If your answer is that "you can execute special jutsus with the Rinnegan" then I could say "my point is not that you can or not execute jutsus with the Rinnegan, but the Rinnegan itself is considered a Kekkei Genkai, independent of the fact that you can use or not jutsus with it. The same story with the Sharingan or the Byakugan".

Then again, I said that Kekkei Genkai was a rare trait. Even element affinity is a trait, so having more lifeforce or some element required for a Kekkei Genkai can be interpreted in that manner as well.

A kekkei genkai is the addition of a lot of required traits for that specific kekkei genkai, ergo, a set of rules to be able to manifest certain techniques. But you can't limit the definition to techniques as is, since it as you said it can mean literally 'a TECHNICHE limited to inheritance by blood' OR 'bloodline limit'. You're forgetting the most important part of the definition... it's talking about something that is inherited through the blood. If you can't call it a trait, what do you call it like? I call that a "trait" since there is no other name I could call it like. Everything you inherit by blood is called trait.

Elaborating, Sharingan depends on DNA and higher levels depends on traumatic events/yin energy (the trait) and it can create powerful genjutsus or ninjutsus (the associated techniques), Mokuton is the addition of enough yang energy and water + earth affinity (the traits) manifested through the growth of wood (associated techniques), Hyouton is the addition of enough water + wind affinity (the trait) manifested through the ice based jutsus (the associated techniques)...

...Senju Clan has a common trait with the Uzumaki Clan (Yang power).

But Kushina was an exception that also held Yin Energy (she had a powerful chakra, the trait), which let her supress Kurama's chakra through the use of Fuinjutsu (the associated technique).

So, in the end, Kekkei Genkai is a sequence of cause (trait) and effect (associated techniques). You can't tell Kekkei Genkai is the second one bypassing the importance of the requirement.

Answer this: Why Kushina's (Also Mito's and Naruto's) special and rare trait can't be considered a KKG, if we already know that Rinnegan appeared when Madara got high amounts of both Yin and Yang power (Yin from his bloodline, and Yang from the Senju bloodline)?

PS: I won't accept a "because it has not been mentioned" as answer. Lack of proof as argument is considered a fallacy.

 

[Orochimagus]

All semantics, Hirudora.

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Dōjutsu (瞳術; English TV "Visual JUTSU"; Literally meaning "Eye TECHNIQUES") are genetic ninja ABILITIES that utilise the eyes, granting the wielder ocular ABILITIES.

The name and definition itself shows it's a technique and not a trait. Since they are considered jutsu/techniques/abilities/whatyouwannacallit then we can assume the act of unlocking that technique is what creates the change in the eye visually. Despite how much you want to worry about the semantics various sources contradict your opinion what what you think it should be.

We need to channel chakra (trait or condition) to use a Shadow Clone (technique associated with the chakra flow) so everyone's got a KKG.

The fact is I got definite proof from various sources which is also proof against your possibility. If you can find some proof, do show.

 

[Mr Hiru]

All semantics, Hirudora.

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Dōjutsu (瞳術; English TV "Visual JUTSU"; Literally meaning "Eye TECHNIQUES") are genetic ninja ABILITIES that utilise the eyes, granting the wielder ocular ABILITIES.

The name and definition itself shows it's a technique and not a trait. Since they are considered jutsu/techniques/abilities/whatyouwannacallit then we can assume the act of unlocking that technique is what creates the change in the eye visually. Despite how much you want to worry about the semantics various sources contradict your opinion what what you think it should be.

We need to channel chakra (trait or condition) to use a Shadow Clone (technique associated with the chakra flow) so everyone's got a KKG.

The fact is I got definite proof from various sources which is also proof against your possibility. If you can find some proof, do show.

If you got that proof and you're declaring it, it's in your burden to show it, not mine.

But I'm a gentleman so I'll defend this point putting the 'proof' voluntarely: Look at the list... (I really hate to put Narutowikia as a source, but as you're using it, I'll just do that)

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The Rinnegan is in the list, and there is no technique in Narutoverse called Rinnegan, the Rinnegan is a trait, a physical manifestation of 2 DNA types. If you're so sure about deflecting the definitions of these kekkei genkai being just techniques, please state why the Rinnegan is a technique.

By the way: What I'm saying is that Kekkei Genkai is not necessarily a technique. The definition talks about Bloodline Limit as another valid definition as well.

 

[Xāvî1]

nice list like it

 

[RiaValkyre]

why would u put pepole with kkg up there?

He meant these people IF they had no KKG... got it?

 

[eyesofthekyuubi44]

Your list is whack. Minato was known as one of the world's strongest. Tobirama does not have a bloodline limit.

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Tailed beast host should not count since it's also an unfair power source outside of their own ability. Also, Kabuto is FULL of Bloodline Limits.

Taking stuff like that off it's something like this:
1.Tobirama
2.Minato
3.Orochimaru
4.Jiraiya
5.Sakura
6.Tsunade
7.Hiruzen
8.3rd Raikage
9.Might Guy
10.Hanzo

Guys like Kakashi (Who even WITH a Sharingan cowered before Orochimaru), Naruto, Oonoki, Ginkaku, Kisame can't count because they all have outside sources of power such as a Sharingan, Tailed Beast (And or the power residue), or legendary weapons that amplify their abilities (Kisame, Ginkaku.).

It ain't fair to let some characters keep their unnatural buffs while depriving others of theirs.

But this whole thread is about who would be strongest without KKG.

Who is competing over whose stronger? Nobody. The category is, no KKG and KKT considering it's basically the same thing. If we want to be a little more fair, we could exclude Roshi considering his TB power gives him an elemental fusion just LIKE a KKG.

I think he does. How is he moving sand otherwise?

Shukaku....?

The big ass sand demon inside of him that ALSO controls sand?

AND the fact that he still retains a portion of it's chakra.

Also, Kabuto can only not count because of Shikotsumyaku. There is no confirmation that the Hozuki clan has a KKG or if it's just a hidden ability like the Nara clans Shadow Bind or Yamanaka clans Mind/Transfer, or if's it's just a body adaptation/change like Orochimaru looking like a snake, Kisame looking like a shark, Zetsu looking like a plant, but just more humanoid.

There is NOTHING wrong with not looking into something more than what it really is guys, because on this site, this causes false information to be spread and seen as true when it really isn't.

If it's not stated, it's not KKG.

Tobirama has no KKG. His brother does. That is why everyone is coveting Hashirama's DNA.

Also, Kushina is noted to have special chakra, but the rest of the Uzumaki's are known for vitality, life force and sealing jutsu.

Mito was not noted to have "special" chakra i.e making chakra chains come out of her. Naruto has also not displayed this ability, nor has Nagato or Konan. The healing ability may or may not be considered a KKG.

Also, a lot of you guys are getting upset about this thread because it's including tailed beasts and outside power sources, but the thread isn't here to bash your favorite character with a Kekkai Genkai. The thread just merely asks what characters are top ten without KKG.

If you feel that bad, make a thread about what characters are strong without their tailed beasts... Are we reading this and thinking "Oh, this must be an Uchiha attack thread?"

It's not. Not everything on here has to be an attack on some character.

 

[Your Creepy Stalker]

Tobirama doesn't have a kkg, And if kakashi is on the list, Nagato should be there aswell. Also, i doubt that Kisame is stronger than Jman.

 

[Tera Path]

No KKG but you are allowing Jins?

KillerBee is top 10.

DSM Kabuto shouldn't be aloud on the list because he stole the sound 5's KKG, so he actually does have one. or five.