[VS] EMS Sasuke vs. Akatsuki

[Nattana]

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It is obvious that he meant Sharingan Genjutsu. Finger Genjutsu has got nothing to do with it.

 

[Shura]

It is obvious that he meant Sharingan Genjutsu. Finger Genjutsu has got nothing to do with it.

He meant his Genjutsu in general. And you think Finger Genjutsu is gonna be more effective than Sharingan Genjutsu? Sasuke broke his Tsukuyomi which resulted in Zetsu stating that Itachi's Genjutsu is now useless. Finger Genjutsu is worthless here and that was Hebi Sasuke in which point, Itachi's Genjutsu could still affect him.​

 

[Chīkara]

He meant his Genjutsu in general. And you think Finger Genjutsu is gonna be more effective than Sharingan Genjutsu? Sasuke broke his Tsukuyomi which resulted in Zetsu stating that Itachi's Genjutsu is now useless. Finger Genjutsu is worthless here and that was Hebi Sasuke in which point, Itachi's Genjutsu could still affect him.​

Nicely Done.

 

[Nattana]

He meant his Genjutsu in general. And you think Finger Genjutsu is gonna be more effective than Sharingan Genjutsu? Sasuke broke his Tsukuyomi which resulted in Zetsu stating that Itachi's Genjutsu is now useless. Finger Genjutsu is worthless here and that was Hebi Sasuke in which point, Itachi's Genjutsu could still affect him.​

Sharingan Genjutsu used on a Sharingan user is another story. Any non-Dojutsu Genjutsu has nothing to do with Sharingan or resisting it. Unless Sasuke is immune to all Genjutsu (which he isn't), he can be caught in it. And then he has to realize he's under an effect of a Genjutsu AND then break out of it.

Lately I've understood that Finger Genjutsu is really OP and in group scenarios and especially here, where it's a group vs 1, it's even more OP. Assuming that that they are all serious and that they aren't going by NV standards I'd mentioned before, Sasuke loses.

 

[Murasame]

It's more than likely. If they even want Kisame to fire it off, Itachi has to remove Susano'o from him, leaving him defenseless from Amaterasu and Enton Arrows which are faster than the activation of GSB. This is how much time it takes for Sasuke to activate PS and coat Kurama with it. Just activating PS would take less time and Kisame hasn't shown to be able to activate GSB faster than that. Also, Kisame needs a water source so he will need to create one and if he does that, Itachi's Susano'o won't be effective anymore, allowing Sasuke to just kill them off. Itachi will also have to remove Susano'o from Kisame so that Kisame can spit out all of that water, once again allowing Sasuke to just kill off Kisame with an Arrow or Amaterasu.​

Kisame doesn't really need a water source as his zetsu copy was about to perform it here. [

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] You might mention the snow around them but while in water dome they moved away from that area and went to a part of the forest that wasn't covered in snow.
Amaterasu can get extinguished by Itachi as I have previously shown... the distance is 40 meters as you previously have it in OP.. the arrow isn't getting him when Kisame can just do the hand signs while in Susanoo and use it when Itachi leaves an opening in Susanoo. Also as FT has mentioned Sasuke has no intel in the manga of Kisame's GSB so I see no reason why Sasuke would attack when he would most likely think he can tank it.

 

[Shura]

Sharingan Genjutsu used on a Sharingan user is another story. Any non-Dojutsu Genjutsu has nothing to do with Sharingan or resisting it. Unless Sasuke is immune to all Genjutsu (which he isn't), he can be caught in it. And then he has to realize he's under an effect of a Genjutsu AND then break out of it.

Lately I've understood that Finger Genjutsu is really OP and in group scenarios and especially here, where it's a group vs 1, it's even more OP. Assuming that that they are all serious and that they aren't going by NV standards I'd mentioned before, Sasuke loses.

No. It's rather easy to break Finger Genjutsu (Just disturb your Chakra) and it's a visual Genjutsu. Visual Genjutsu doesn't work on Sasuke anymore. Hence why Zetsu said that Itachi's Genjutsu is useless after Sasuke countered it, and he was talking about all of Itachi's Genjutsu.

''He has to realize that he is under a Genjutsu.'' Not a problem, considering he noticed it that he is in a Genjutsu despite the fact that Itachi didn't make it obvious or tell him about it.​

 

[Forbidden Technique]

It's more than likely. If they even want Kisame to fire it off, Itachi has to remove Susano'o from him, leaving him defenseless from Amaterasu and Enton Arrows which are faster than the activation of GSB. This is how much time it takes for Sasuke to activate PS and coat Kurama with it. Just activating PS would take less time and Kisame hasn't shown to be able to activate GSB faster than that. Also, Kisame needs a water source so he will need to create one and if he does that, Itachi's Susano'o won't be effective anymore, allowing Sasuke to just kill them off. Itachi will also have to remove Susano'o from Kisame so that Kisame can spit out all of that water, once again allowing Sasuke to just kill off Kisame with an Arrow or Amaterasu.​

Kisame has shown to create water sources on a much larger scale within a second; but were going to conclude that GSB takes a considerable longer time to use because it wasn't shown to be that fast in a scenario where Kisame was in no sense of urgency.
Again, Kisame regurgitates suiton techniques on a much larger scale; but were going to conclude that Kisame requires a pre-existent water source in order to use a technique on a much smaller scale.

Lol.

A) It needs time to eat Chakra. Something even you can't deny. Sasuke happens to have the Sharingan and as soon as he sees his PS being eaten by it, he counters with a shockwave. Unless he just decides to get rid off the water with a shockwave so he can fight in a normal battlefield.

B) All Susano'os have the same strength which is what PS uses in order to create those shockwaves. Sasuke not being ''Madara'' has nothing to do with it.​

What, a second or two for it to start consuming the susano'os chakra..? And Sasuke can't counter with a shockwave once the GSB makes contact with the susano'o. Notice the extension required [

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] for a shockwave to even occur.[/QUOTE]

 

[Shura]

Kisame doesn't really need a water source as his zetsu copy was about to perform it here. [

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] You might mention the snow around them but while in water dome they moved away from that area and went to a part of the forest that wasn't covered in snow.
Amaterasu can get extinguished by Itachi as I have previously shown... the distance is 40 meters as you previously have it in OP.. the arrow isn't getting him when Kisame can just do the hand signs while in Susanoo and use it when Itachi leaves an opening in Susanoo. Also as FT has mentioned Sasuke has no intel in the manga of Kisame's GSB so I see no reason why Sasuke would attack when he would most likely think he can tank it.

Nope. Not gonna mention the snow. However, if Zetsu really was going to use GSB right there, we have no proof as to how powerful it would be. It definitely wouldn't be on par with the GSB Kisame used against Gai. That GSB needed a water source to be that powerful so if Kisame wants to create a GSB that would actually have some chances against Sasuke, he'll have to create a water source first.

Countered FT. It's also logical to say that after Sasuke sees Kisame creating such large scale Suitons, he'd want to return the battlefield into it's former self and get rid of the water. He'll do that by creating a PS shockwave. After-all, with all that water around, he would be slower and it would be rather annoying. So if he can get rid of it, I don't see why he wouldn't do it. Anyways, even if Itachi can get rid of Amaterasu, by the time he does that, Kisame will be extremely burned and near death if not dead.​

Kisame has shown to create water sources on a much larger scale within a second; but were going to conclude that GSB takes a considerable longer time to use because it wasn't shown to be that fast in a scenario where Kisame was in no sense of urgency.
Again, Kisame regurgitates suiton techniques on a much larger scale; but were going to conclude that Kisame requires a pre-existent water source in order to use a technique on a much smaller scale.

What, a second or two for it to start consuming the susano'os chakra..? And Sasuke can't counter with a shockwave once the GSB makes contact with the susano'o. Notice the extension required [

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] for a shockwave to even occur.

No. You weren't reading. I did not say that Kisame needs a pre-existing water source, I said that he will need to create one first. Anyways, considering how much larger the PS would be than the GSB, it would take quite some time before it consumes all of it (If it even could consume all of it, that is). It would try to eat it's legs first which allows Sasuke just to swing his sword and end of story. GSB is gone.​

 

[Nattana]

No. It's rather easy to break Finger Genjutsu (Just disturb your Chakra) and it's a visual Genjutsu. Visual Genjutsu doesn't work on Sasuke anymore. Hence why Zetsu said that Itachi's Genjutsu is useless after Sasuke countered it, and he was talking about all of Itachi's Genjutsu.

''He has to realize that he is under a Genjutsu.'' Not a problem, considering he noticed it that he is in a Genjutsu despite the fact that Itachi didn't make it obvious or tell him about it.​

Just because Zetsu said something doesn't mean it was correct.
And Finger Genjutsu isn't visual ;o It's similar to Kurenai's Genjutsu in terms of casting - it somehow transfers chakra to the brain without using victims senses, since you don't need to look at the victim to cast it. Itachi himself stated it wasn't a visual Genjutsu.

Moreover, I'm not saying Sasuke wouldn't be able to break out of it. I'm just saying that Itachi can sacrifice his contribution in this fight to simply lock Sasuke in the Finger Genjutsu loop.

 

[Shura]

Just because Zetsu said something doesn't mean it was correct.
And Finger Genjutsu isn't visual ;o It's similar to Kurenai's Genjutsu in terms of casting - it somehow transfers chakra to the brain without using victims senses, since you don't need to look at the victim to cast it. Itachi himself stated it wasn't a visual Genjutsu.

Moreover, I'm not saying Sasuke wouldn't be able to break out of it. I'm just saying that Itachi can sacrifice his contribution in this fight to simply lock Sasuke in the Finger Genjutsu loop.

Finger Genjutsu is not working on Sasuke. Sasuke only needs to bite himself to break such a Genjutsu just like Kurenai broke Itachi's weaker 3T Genjutsu in order to break out of it. Or just disturb his Chakra flow in order to get out. It's that simple.

It can buy them like a second or two since Sasuke would realize that he is in a Genjutsu, immediately.​

 

[Nattana]

Finger Genjutsu is not working on Sasuke. Sasuke only needs to bite himself to break such a Genjutsu just like Kurenai broke Itachi's weaker 3T Genjutsu in order to break out of it. Or just disturb his Chakra flow in order to get out. It's that simple.

It can buy them like a second or two since Sasuke would realize that he is in a Genjutsu, immediately.​

Kurenai broke out of her own Genjutsu, not Itachi's one.
A few seconds here, a few seconds there. You have yet to counter the Finger Genjutsu loop, since I haven't seen you do that.

Moreover, biting himself and letting the blood drops fall on the ground would only create an opening for Hidan and his ritual.

 

[Shura]

Kurenai broke out of her own Genjutsu, not Itachi's one.
A few seconds here, a few seconds there. You have yet to counter the Finger Genjutsu loop, since I haven't seen you do that.

Moreover, biting himself and letting the blood drops fall on the ground would only create an opening for Hidan and his ritual.

No. It was Itachi's Genjutsu. Itachi countered her Genjutsu with his own.

Finger Genjutsu loop? Since when does that exist? And you actually think Sasuke will fall for that more than once despite the fact that Naruto knew how to not fall for that again?​

 

[Forbidden Technique]

No. You weren't reading. I did not say that Kisame needs a pre-existing water source, I said that he will need to create one first. Anyways, considering how much larger the PS would be than the GSB, it would take quite some time before it consumes all of it (If it even could consume all of it, that is). It would try to eat it's legs first which allows Sasuke just to swing his sword and end of story. GSB is gone.​

That is precisely what I meant. You made the claim that GSB requires a pre-existent water source in order to be utilized. In other words, GSB can't be used unless there is a body of water present either made by Kisame or innate to the location. Doesn't make a difference, because that is false and doesn't make any sense to claim in the first place given Kisames prowess with suiton.

And where are you concluding that the GSB is going to take more then maybe 2 or 3 seconds to start consuming any part of the susano'o it makes contact with? Second of all, how is a sword made of chakra going to disperse a technique that absorbs chakra..?

 

[Shura]

That is precisely what I meant. You made the claim that GSB requires a pre-existent water source in order to be utilized. In other words, GSB can't be used unless there is a body of water present either made by Kisame or innate to the location. Doesn't make a difference, because that is false and doesn't make any sense to claim in the first place given Kisames prowess with suiton.

First of all, where are you concluding that the GSB is going to take more then maybe 2 or 3 seconds to start consuming any part of the susano'o it makes contact with? Second of all, how is a sword made of chakra going to disperse a technique that absorbs chakra..?

He needs to spit out the water and create a GSB. Lol

Again, you are not reading. I did not say that it takes more than 2 or 3 seconds to start consuming. I said that it takes time for it to actually consume something like PS. Especially since it's much larger than GSB itself. And again, the sword of Chakra isn't the thing that is going to get rid of GSB. The shockwave created by it's slash will get rid of it.​

 

[Murasame]

Nope. Not gonna mention the snow. However, if Zetsu really was going to use GSB right there, we have no proof as to how powerful it would be. It definitely wouldn't be on par with the GSB Kisame used against Gai. That GSB needed a water source to be that powerful so if Kisame wants to create a GSB that would actually have some chances against Sasuke, he'll have to create a water source first.

Countered FT. It's also logical to say that after Sasuke sees Kisame creating such large scale Suitons, he'd want to return the battlefield into it's former self and get rid of the water. He'll do that by creating a PS shockwave. After-all, with all that water around, he would be slower and it would be rather annoying. So if he can get rid of it, I don't see why he wouldn't do it. Anyways, even if Itachi can get rid of Amaterasu, by the time he does that, Kisame will be extremely burned and near death if not dead.​

While that may be true it doesn't matter because in the end GSB grows stronger and bigger. [

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]

How do you suppose he's going to do that when he's being struck by GSB? His PS will go down... Infact now that I think about it this GSB might as well take Sasuke out too since it's going to grow to be bigger and stronger from absorbing the chakra from PS. Sasuke can try deactivating it but then he'll get hit by GSB so either way it's a lose lose situation.. any of the lesser forms of Susanoo isn't going to cut it either.. it gets destroyed by continuous attacks or Sasuke eventually tires out.
Anyways amaterasu isn't going to instantly kill kisame so he should survive although with burns.

edit: wait I never even said that kisame would turn the battlefield into water ( ._.)

 

[Nattana]

No. It was Itachi's Genjutsu. Itachi countered her Genjutsu with his own.
​

Itachi used Genjutsu reversal. He sent Kurenai's technique right back to her.

Finger Genjutsu loop? Since when does that exist? And you actually think Sasuke will fall for that more than once despite the fact that Naruto knew how to not fall for that again?​

Sasuke doesn't have anything to say here. Itachi transfers his chakra to Sasuke's brain with simply pointing his finger at him. If breaking out of a specific Genjutsu was making one immune to it, Genjutsu itself would be useless.

And about the loop. What is so hard to understand? Sasuke breaks out of one Finger Genjutsu just to get caught in another one. Simple as that.

@Bold.
Wat?

 

[Shura]

While that may be true it doesn't matter because in the end GSB grows stronger and bigger. [

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]

How do you suppose he's going to do that when he's being struck by GSB? His PS will go down... Infact now that I think about it this GSB might as well take Sasuke out too since it's going to grow to be bigger and stronger from absorbing the chakra from PS. Sasuke can try deactivating it but then he'll get hit by GSB so either way it's a lose lose situation.. any of the lesser forms of Susanoo isn't going to cut it either.. it gets destroyed by continuous attacks or Sasuke eventually tires out.
Anyways amaterasu isn't going to instantly kill kisame so he should survive although with burns.

GSB literally has no absorption feats so before it even manages to absorb the PS legs and grow big enough to go to the next part of the PS, Sasuke will swing the sword and create the shockwave. GSB is gone. It's basically which is faster. GSB's absorption or Sasuke's sword swing. We both know which one is faster.​

Itachi used Genjutsu reversal. He sent Kurenai's technique right back to her.



Sasuke doesn't have anything to say here. Itachi transfers his chakra to Sasuke's brain with simply pointing his finger at him. If breaking out of a specific Genjutsu was making one immune to it, Genjutsu itself would be useless.

And about the loop. What is so hard to understand? Sasuke breaks out of one Finger Genjutsu just to get caught in another one. Simple as that.

@Bold.
Wat?

And you think Sasuke is an idiot who will keep on looking at Itachi's finger? It's been stated that Itachi's Genjutsu is ineffective against Sasuke by more than one person so this isn't really debatable.​

 

[Forbidden Technique]

He needs to spit out the water and create a GSB. Lol​

Odd.. according to AkatsukiChurch:

Kisame needs a water source so he will need to create one​

Does this or does this not imply Kisame needs to create his own water source, like so [

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], before using the GSB? My whole point was that this isn't a requirement to use the GSB. He can use it just as Zetsu proceeded to use it against Bee and Ay which only takes a second or two considering how fast he regurgitated the lake and WD.

Again, you are not reading. I did not say that it takes more than 2 or 3 seconds to start consuming. I said that it takes time for it to actually consume something like PS. Especially since it's much larger than GSB itself. And again, the sword of Chakra isn't the thing that is going to get rid of GSB. The shockwave created by it's slash will get rid of it.

Buddy, let's not go around in circles now. And stop telling me I'm not reading because you aren't making things clear.

@ bold...? Because according to AkatsukiChurch:

A) It needs time to eat Chakra. Something even you can't deny..​

Furthermore, Kisame specifically said the stronger the jutsu, the better GSB works.

@ underline, and again, the shockwave requires a large extension and large swing of the sword for it to create a shockwave [

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] It won't have the room to do so when the GSB makes contact with the susano'o

 

[Murasame]

GSB literally has no absorption feats so before it even manages to absorb the PS legs and grow big enough to go to the next part of the PS, Sasuke will swing the sword and create the shockwave. GSB is gone. It's basically which is faster. GSB's absorption or Sasuke's sword swing. We both know which one is faster.​

You might have a point here but Sasuke's current PS isn't the size of Madara's.. you might argue that he made it small enough to fit Naruto's kurama avatar but I'd rather see it first then just give Sasuke it right now when he hasn't canonically shown it.
We may have no absorption feats from GSB but going from what Kisame said in that scan (if Gai's technique was made out of chakra) it should've been absorbed in those few panels so it should be quick. The technique also works better the better the jutsu is so we can say that it can absorb quickly. Sasuke might end up destroying it but what stops kisame from firing another one? He has the most chakra out of the akatsuki (including nagato).. so he's capable of doing it and eventually Sasuke would get worn out.

edit: never mind saw FT's post he might not have room to create a shockwave to take out GSB when its hitting him from the front

 

[Europa]

Kisame could always just spit out a smaller Great Shark Bullet. There's nothing to say he can't do this, nor it has to be a great size. He can hide behind the Yata Mirror or some other defense and simply shoot several of these off at different locations on Susano'o.

And they'll only grow in size with the chakra from Susano'o.