[Question] How much of a challenge is Smoker to Luffy, from 1-10?

[Olorin]

many parallel Smoker to Garp but I just don't see smoker ever being as strong as Garp with the smoke smoke fruit

 

[Anduril]

Dude be subtle. You're spoiling it for TheCCV.
When fighting someone when everything comes as a surprise to you and you have no idea what to do, of course you're going to lose. ___ had knowledge of Smokers ability, Smoker only knew about what a Room is, due to the diversity of his powers, ___ had the upperhand and Smoker knew less about ___ than ___ knew about Smoker.

Most fights in One Piece between bigshots have all participants posessing plenty of information on their opponents.

Smoker was all over ___, ___ was simply lucky to get the better of Smoker for the first and only time during the fight before he _________


He was winning at first...


Smoker was completely out of shape when fighting ____, the fight was off panel so we don't actually know how long the fight was. Nor how much of a fight Smoker put up against ____.

I still think smoker is incredibly weak compared to luffy as of now lol

Just one other point... look at this

You must be registered for see images

and now imagine all those hits with armament haki. Smoker looses.

 

[Avinash012]

IMO 7 or 8.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

many parallel Smoker to Garp but I just don't see smoker ever being as strong as Garp with the smoke smoke fruit

He'll have top tier Haki as well. Plus Smoke technically has a gargantuan temperature range as to when it can occur. Smoker may eventually be able to use it to intoxicate foes or freeze and burn his enemies. All within one Devil Fruit. He might use Smiley and what happened on Punk Hazard as inspiration to accomplish this after possibly realizing his fruits full potential.

I still think smoker is incredibly weak compared to luffy as of now lol

Just one other point... look at this

You must be registered for see images

and now imagine all those hits with armament haki. Smoker looses.

He loses. But puts up an excellent fight. How do you know Smoker was deliberately not dispersing his Smoke because he knew Luffy couldn't hit him?

 

[TheHokage]

many parallel Smoker to Garp but I just don't see smoker ever being as strong as Garp with the smoke smoke fruit

Spoiler

Well I doubt Garp was top tier immediately I mean he even stated that he had to train to be able to defeat Chinjao. Also Smoker has Haki now as well not to mention we haven't seen a fraction of what his DF can actually do.

Half the time in OP you end up fighting people whose abilities you are unaware of. You have to improvise. As a marine vice-admiral he should be used to such situations.
Also when you consider law's fruit there is no inherent advantage when you are fighting against a smoke man. But law was able to keep up with smoker physically.

Spoiler

Actually considering Law has Haki he did have an advantage over Smoker when it comes to Law's hax fruit. Not to mention when Smoker and Law where fighting physically Smoker was forcing Law to retreat and come up with strategies. Not to mention when Law and Vergo fought physically Law got his ass handed to him.

I still think smoker is incredibly weak compared to luffy as of now lol

Actually I just think your incredibly bias towards Smoker for some reason, considering Smoker is going to be the one that's constantly chasing Luffy even in the New World it makes no sense for him to be miles weaker than Luffy.

 

[Anduril]

How do you know Smoker was deliberately not dispersing his Smoke because he knew Luffy couldn't hit him?

Because that's his technique called white blower or something in which he converts his lower body into smoke and uses it as a propeller to fly.

Spoiler

Actually considering Law has Haki he did have an advantage over Smoker when it comes to Law's hax fruit.

Tell me how?

Actually I just think your incredibly bias towards Smoker for some reason, considering Smoker is going to be the one that's constantly chasing Luffy even in the New World it makes no sense for him to be miles weaker than Luffy.

This is a very weird argument. By this logic, Luffy is going to be the PK it does not make much sense for him to be a lot weaker than a yonkou.

 

[Red Swag]

about 2.

luffy low diffs

 

[TheHokage]

This is a very weird argument. By this logic, Luffy is going to be the PK it does not make much sense for him to be a lot weaker than a yonkou.

Yes but considering how weak you think Smoker is it would be an asspull for Smoker to gain that sort of power up. (He's not Coby who relies on asspull power ups and off panel training) Oda has made it so Smoker and Luffy are always going to be either on equal footing or one being slightly stronger than the other (Like Garp and Roger) Also a Yonkou is completely different in this situation Smoker is a Vice Admiral he's going to be around Luffy's strength since we know Luffy ain't going to be as strong as an Admiral (yet) but he's in-between the two.

Not to mention when Luffy actually does fight a Yonkou 1 on 1 it won't be for awhile especially considering he's only just going up against Doflamingo who is in fact weaker than a Yonkou. You have to try use common sense Oda ain't going to have someone like Smoker who is Luffy's marine rival on the Grandline that much weaker is he it would make no sense character and story wise.

Tell me how?

Well if Law combines his DF power with his Haki it doesn't matter if his opponent is a logia since it will still hit them as normal. So basically Smoker's DF did not help him escape Law's DF powers at all in fact Smoker might as well have been fighting without them when it came to close quarter fighting.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

Because that's his technique called white blower or something in which he converts his lower body into smoke and uses it as a propeller to fly.

This proves nothing. Try again.

about 2.

luffy low diffs

People like you are the reason why Shampoo bottles need instructions.

 

[Anduril]

Yes but considering how weak you think Smoker is it would be an asspull for Smoker to gain that sort of power up. (He's not Coby who relies on asspull power ups and off panel training) Oda has made it so Smoker and Luffy are always going to be either on equal footing or one being slightly stronger than the other (Like Garp and Roger)

Dude Luffy has been running from smoker the entire first part of the grandline. Luffy could not land a punch on smoker. Is this oda's sense of equality??
Let me sum up the Smoker-Luffy relationship in the first half of the grandline.
Loguetown - Luffy saved by dragon.
Alabasta - Luffy saved by Ace.
Marineford - Luffy saved by Boa Hankcock.
And you are talking about slightly stronger.....my ass. Smoker could have dragged luffy all the way to impel down in the first half of the grandline. It is now smokers turn to play the role of luffy's *****.

Well if Law combines his DF power with his Haki it doesn't matter if his opponent is a logia since it will still hit them as normal. So basically Smoker's DF did not help him escape Law's DF powers at all in fact Smoker might as well have been fighting without them when it came to close quarter fighting.

What is Law supposed to do? spread haki through his room like some gas??

This proves nothing. Try again.

It does. Without the momentum of the smoke in that particular direction he won't be moving that fast.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

It does. Without the momentum of the smoke in that particular direction he won't be moving that fast.

To calculate momentum you need a weight. And since Smoke isn't very dense the momentum is not high as the weight of the Smoke is low, I don't see what momentum has to do with this.

 

[Hijey]

Spoiler

many parallel Smoker to Garp but I just don't see smoker ever being as strong as Garp with the smoke smoke fruit

Spoiler

He'll probably surpass him like Luffy is going to surpass Roger and Zoro surpassing Rayleigh etc. I just can't see the top of Luffy's generation being weaker than Roger's, they'll either be as strong or stronger. A smoke fruit is still pretty good because it's a logia type and we've seen how difficult it is to get past an Admirals intangibility, not to mention Oda will probably make the fruit better like rinne said.

Spoiler

I still think smoker is incredibly weak compared to luffy as of now lol

Just one other point... look at this

You must be registered for see images

and now imagine all those hits with armament haki. Smoker looses.

Spoiler

Then you must also think Law is extremely weak compared to Luffy because the fight between him and Smoker were evenly matched until the end. Smoker is now more used to the hax of law meaning it's uncertain wether Law can beat him again given how close their fight was.

That never happened in the manga and does he even have such a move btw? Smoker is not dumb enough to use a disadvantage move like that against Luffy unless during a time when Luffy is not fast enough to counter attack such a move.

 

[Hexuze]

people like you are the reason why shampoo bottles need instructions.

lmao irl xd :')

 

[Anduril]

To calculate momentum you need a weight. And since Smoke isn't very dense the momentum is not high as the weight of the Smoke is low, I don't see what momentum has to do with this.

God!
Ever seen how a missile or a rocket works?
Its the exact same principle he is using.

"Weight of smoke is low" aww my head its about to burst lol

Spoiler

He'll probably surpass him like Luffy is going to surpass Roger and Zoro surpassing Rayleigh etc. I just can't see the top of Luffy's generation being weaker than Roger's, they'll either be as strong or stronger. A smoke fruit is still pretty good because it's a logia type and we've seen how difficult it is to get past an Admirals intangibility, not to mention Oda will probably make the fruit better like rinne said.

Spoiler

Then you must also think Law is extremely weak compared to Luffy because the fight between him and Smoker were evenly matched until the end. Smoker is now more used to the hax of law meaning it's uncertain wether Law can beat him again given how close their fight was.

That never happened in the manga and does he even have such a move btw? Smoker is not dumb enough to use a disadvantage move like that against Luffy unless during a time when Luffy is not fast enough to counter attack such a move.

Don't bother.

 

[Hijey]

Why not? Feel free to correct me if I've been reading the manga incorrectly. From what I've seen, Smoker is probably weaker than Luffy but far weaker? Nothing supports that atrocious notion.

 

[System001]

Spoiler

He'll probably surpass him like Luffy is going to surpass Roger and Zoro surpassing Rayleigh etc. I just can't see the top of Luffy's generation being weaker than Roger's, they'll either be as strong or stronger. A smoke fruit is still pretty good because it's a logia type and we've seen how difficult it is to get past an Admirals intangibility, not to mention Oda will probably make the fruit better like rinne said.

Spoiler

Then you must also think Law is extremely weak compared to Luffy because the fight between him and Smoker were evenly matched until the end. Smoker is now more used to the hax of law meaning it's uncertain wether Law can beat him again given how close their fight was.

That never happened in the manga and does he even have such a move btw? Smoker is not dumb enough to use a disadvantage move like that against Luffy unless during a time when Luffy is not fast enough to counter attack such a move.

Why not? Feel free to correct me if I've been reading the manga incorrectly. From what I've seen, Smoker is probably weaker than Luffy but far weaker? Nothing supports that atrocious notion.

Spoiler

If Law Vs Smoker was an even fight, with Law just coming out on top at the end, then yes, Luffy and Smoker are evenly matched, with Luffy coming out on top. 10/10 is like Luffy Vs Lucci, to hell and back, just barely winning before your body gives out. In which case Smoker comes below 5. Law came out of Law Vs Smoker unscathed, just because he didn't paint Smoker bloody doesn't mean that the fight was even. It simply means that he finished it neatly.

Luffy put down a Pacifista with minimal effort, whereas 2 years ago it took his entire crew noticeable effort to take one down. And, you don't even need Haki to take out a Pacifista, so that feat makes it clear that his physical abilities have improved, as it wasn't just by Haki that he won. Luffy is now capable of combining Gear 2 and 3, and can do so with far less backlash than before. Topped with Haki would mean that he could simply send a barrage of Gear 2, 3, or even a mixture of attacks towards Smoker, who wouldn't be able to avoid them all. Luffy's Colour of Observation is clearly doing quite well, whereas Smokers seemed to be lacking. As, had it not been he should have managed to detect and avoid Law's heart snatching, unless the attack connecting was completely down to a lack of physical ability.

Secondly, while Smoker can travel fast, it doesn't necessarily mean that he's more agile than Luffy. So should he rely on agility, chances are he'll be trumped, while his fluidity of movement might give him a slight edge, in terms of acceleration and speed control Luffy will likely be far better off.

In terms of physical combat, Luffy would completely destroy him if it weren't for his Kairoseki Jitte. Luffy's a physical fighter, that's what he relies on, while Smoker seemingly relies on his DF and Jitte. Using his DF to surround, confuse and close in on enemies, before pinning them down with his Jitte. That would probably be Smokers best tactic to try and take down Luffy, except it wouldn't work. Why? Because: Haki? Check. Physicality? Check. Reactions? Check.

In a Mid Ranged fight, Luffy can rely on his extension abilities, whereas Smoker can continuously circle him. This may be the range at which Smoker manages to be his best at against Luffy, attempting to circle him at differing altitudes to avoid his attacks, while looking for a opening so as to close in. But then Gear 3 comes into the mix, with it Luffy could attack a wider area so as to put Smoker out of action.

Long Range would simply be a game of tag, in which case Luffy could just wait it out until Smoker comes in a bit closer.


Anyway, I don't get what the big deal is if Luffy has managed to shoot past Smoker. Give Smoker the ability to range his temperature, utilize his smoke for intoxication, create constructs and stuff from Smoke, (Like Ace and Kizaru, which combined with a temperature change could be incredibly OP), and then make him much better at colour of obs so that he can avoid Haki attacks more effectively, and you once gain have an OPed Smoker.

 

[Hijey]

Spoiler

If Law Vs Smoker was an even fight, with Law just coming out on top at the end, then yes, Luffy and Smoker are evenly matched, with Luffy coming out on top. 10/10 is like Luffy Vs Lucci, to hell and back, just barely winning before your body gives out. In which case Smoker comes below 5. Law came out of Law Vs Smoker unscathed, just because he didn't paint Smoker bloody doesn't mean that the fight was even. It simply means that he finished it neatly.

Luffy put down a Pacifista with minimal effort, whereas 2 years ago it took his entire crew noticeable effort to take one down. And, you don't even need Haki to take out a Pacifista, so that feat makes it clear that his physical abilities have improved, as it wasn't just by Haki that he won. Luffy is now capable of combining Gear 2 and 3, and can do so with far less backlash than before. Topped with Haki would mean that he could simply send a barrage of Gear 2, 3, or even a mixture of attacks towards Smoker, who wouldn't be able to avoid them all. Luffy's Colour of Observation is clearly doing quite well, whereas Smokers seemed to be lacking. As, had it not been he should have managed to detect and avoid Law's heart snatching, unless the attack connecting was completely down to a lack of physical ability.

Secondly, while Smoker can travel fast, it doesn't necessarily mean that he's more agile than Luffy. So should he rely on agility, chances are he'll be trumped, while his fluidity of movement might give him a slight edge, in terms of acceleration and speed control Luffy will likely be far better off.

In terms of physical combat, Luffy would completely destroy him if it weren't for his Kairoseki Jitte. Luffy's a physical fighter, that's what he relies on, while Smoker seemingly relies on his DF and Jitte. Using his DF to surround, confuse and close in on enemies, before pinning them down with his Jitte. That would probably be Smokers best tactic to try and take down Luffy, except it wouldn't work. Why? Because: Haki? Check. Physicality? Check. Reactions? Check.

In a Mid Ranged fight, Luffy can rely on his extension abilities, whereas Smoker can continuously circle him. This may be the range at which Smoker manages to be his best at against Luffy, attempting to circle him at differing altitudes to avoid his attacks, while looking for a opening so as to close in. But then Gear 3 comes into the mix, with it Luffy could attack a wider area so as to put Smoker out of action.

Long Range would simply be a game of tag, in which case Luffy could just wait it out until Smoker comes in a bit closer.


Anyway, I don't get what the big deal is if Luffy has managed to shoot past Smoker. Give Smoker the ability to range his temperature, utilize his smoke for intoxication, create constructs and stuff from Smoke, (Like Ace and Kizaru, which combined with a temperature change could be incredibly OP), and then make him much better at colour of obs so that he can avoid Haki attacks more effectively, and you once gain have an OPed Smoker.

Spoiler

I don't understand how you came to the conclusion Smoker is a 5 comapred to Luffy's 10 if he was evenly matched against Law. Typo? I never said current Smoker is 10 if Luffy is 10, he obviously is below that since it seems Luffy is stronger now. However, it seemed like they would both have been a 10 pre timeskip(except for when Luffy got gears which I think put him slightly above Smoker, otherwise it doesn't make sence because Luffy uses a power up that screw his health, he should be stronger than anyone at his level). No, Law definitely did not finish his fight against Smoker neatly. It was clear that Law put in a lot of effort and his devil fruit abilities does not make people bloody. He gets in one good hit and you are done for, period. It's the same with Smoker against devil fruit users. If his seastone gets in a good hit, he wins. That is why Law was a second from losing that fight against Smoker. If Smoker is at Law's level which he is, then he is at Luffy's level too but that doesn't mean he is as strong as Luffy. Akainu is stronger than Aokiji, but they are at the same level.

Smoker can put down a pacifista with minimal effort, like Zoro and Sanji and anyone at their level. What makes you think Luffy didn't use haki? I thought the whole scene was to show Luffy using CoO and CoA hence Sentomaru saying that he used haki. Smoker does have CoO since he is a Vice Admiral, but he is most likely more proficient in CoA than CoO. I think Smoker did not notice Law using an attack in time because of the boulder that was between the two.

Smoker is more mobile than Luffy, he can disperse himself and Luffy is faster but neither is far better than the other one at those areas. Thriller Bark Kuma can for example move much faster than Zoro, but it's not given he can beat current Zoro since they are in the same ballpark.

You know, that weapon is part of his weapon. I agree Luffy is probably physically stronger but what makes you think Luffy would completely destroy him in that department? Smoker is no Enel who only relies on his devil fruit. Ace seemed like he relied on his devil fruit as much as Smoker if not more, but one of Blackbeards crewmembers still noted how he is physically strong if I'm not mistaken.

I don't think it's a good idea for Luffy to use G3 against people that are at his level. If I'm not mistaken, it takes time for activate it but people at his level are fast enough to interrupt him at that moment. Now I'm sleepy, but iirc Luffy only brings out G3 when there's a fair distance between him and the opponent and at the end of fights against people at his level.

Luffy seemed to have surpassed yet ever since he got gears, it's been slightly increasing for the past two years but not to the point Luffy would wreck Smoker, he would need to put in a lot of effort to put him down.

 

[System001]

Spoiler

I don't understand how you came to the conclusion Smoker is a 5 comapred to Luffy's 10 if he was evenly matched against Law. Typo? I never said current Smoker is 10 if Luffy is 10, he obviously is below that since it seems Luffy is stronger now. However, it seemed like they would both have been a 10 pre timeskip(except for when Luffy got gears which I think put him slightly above Smoker, otherwise it doesn't make sence because Luffy uses a power up that screw his health, he should be stronger than anyone at his level). No, Law definitely did not finish his fight against Smoker neatly. It was clear that Law put in a lot of effort and his devil fruit abilities does not make people bloody. He gets in one good hit and you are done for, period. It's the same with Smoker against devil fruit users. If his seastone gets in a good hit, he wins. That is why Law was a second from losing that fight against Smoker. If Smoker is at Law's level which he is, then he is at Luffy's level too but that doesn't mean he is as strong as Luffy. Akainu is stronger than Aokiji, but they are at the same level.

Smoker can put down a pacifista with minimal effort, like Zoro and Sanji and anyone at their level. What makes you think Luffy didn't use haki? I thought the whole scene was to show Luffy using CoO and CoA hence Sentomaru saying that he used haki. Smoker does have CoO since he is a Vice Admiral, but he is most likely more proficient in CoA than CoO. I think Smoker did not notice Law using an attack in time because of the boulder that was between the two.

Smoker is more mobile than Luffy, he can disperse himself and Luffy is faster but neither is far better than the other one at those areas. Thriller Bark Kuma can for example move much faster than Zoro, but it's not given he can beat current Zoro since they are in the same ballpark.

You know, that weapon is part of his weapon. I agree Luffy is probably physically stronger but what makes you think Luffy would completely destroy him in that department? Smoker is no Enel who only relies on his devil fruit. Ace seemed like he relied on his devil fruit as much as Smoker if not more, but one of Blackbeards crewmembers still noted how he is physically strong if I'm not mistaken.

I don't think it's a good idea for Luffy to use G3 against people that are at his level. If I'm not mistaken, it takes time for activate it but people at his level are fast enough to interrupt him at that moment. Now I'm sleepy, but iirc Luffy only brings out G3 when there's a fair distance between him and the opponent and at the end of fights against people at his level.

Luffy seemed to have surpassed yet ever since he got gears, it's been slightly increasing for the past two years but not to the point Luffy would wreck Smoker, he would need to put in a lot of effort to put him down.

The first part of the first paragraph of your reply completely destroyed any credibility that your argument may have had.

 

[Hijey]

The first part of the first paragraph of your reply completely destroyed any credibility that your argument may have had.

Spoiler

No, it didn't. You know, coming out unscatched in a fight because of having an ability that can end people at any given time if it hits does not mean you didn't put in a lot of effort and that you are a lot stronger than your opponent. Aokiji, despite having an ability that can bypass durability like Law, had to evenly fight Jozu several chapters. Now replace Garp with Aokiji, someone that doesn't have the luxary of ending fights in one hit and you'll see it'll take much longer and he's not going to look as fresh as Aokiji. By that logic, Luffy is far weaker than Law.

 

[System001]

Spoiler

No, it didn't. You know, coming out unscatched in a fight because of having an ability that can end people at any given time if it hits does not mean you didn't put in a lot of effort and that you are a lot stronger than your opponent. Aokiji, despite having an ability that can bypass durability like Law, had to evenly fight Jozu several chapters. Now replace Garp with Aokiji, someone that doesn't have the luxary of ending fights in one hit and you'll see it'll take much longer and he's not going to look as fresh as Aokiji. By that logic, Luffy is far weaker than Law.

Spoiler

If Law were to have, at the last moment when he was sent flying next to the Colosseum, managed to take out Doflamingo via a surprise attack, it would have been a 10. If you get blitzed, you get blitzed, simple as. Anything can be a one hit kill, if you punch someone in the throat hard enough, they'll be incapacitated, or possibly even die. So your argument 'that the difficulty of the fight isn't apparent because Law has a one hit kill ability' is silly. But I do understand where you're come from. It's like a man with a knife vs a Lion, the lion can slash, prowl and attempt to charge, but as long as the man thrusts the knife into its chest when it leaps he's won, and he might just come out of it unscathed. But that doesn't change the fact that had the Lion be smarter, faster, more resilient or resourceful it would've won.
But regardless, how is your accused to be underestimated Smoker going to give Luffy a run for his money? How?