Zabuza has his chances against Kimimaro

[Izuna Kakashi Senju]

Kimimaro wins low diff.

 

[Draegod]

Oh you're going to be nice? Oh good because I thought you were going to be really mean to me and ruin my Christmas.







Guy punched from the outside and Kisame was maintaining the prison from the inside... This isn't a good example, too many factors are different that can play a significant role.



Well for one the prison wasn't even being grasped by another ninja, this potentially weakening the control and strength of it, allowing those ninja to move around. When Kisame used his Water Prison Jutsu on Lee, Neji, and Tenten, they couldn't move at all, which proves my point that the prison was weakened due to a user not controlling it.



This is already countered because I explained factors that made the prison weaker. Also Neji breaking out of the prison doesn't suggest Kimi can. Neji, as you should already know released chakra from all of his tenketsu points to disperse the prison. Kimi doesn't know the Gentle Fist.



I thought you were going to be nice? Ah, kids say the darndest things



I didn't say Kimimaro was incapable of jumping to other dances, I said it was unlikely.

Kimimaro used his third dance because he was outnumbered, thus can be attacked from all directions. Against Zabuza, he doesn't need to do this. He didn't even jump to his 3rd dance facing Lee, a master Taijutsu user. If he didn't jump to his 3rd dance against Lee, who you claim is more skilled than Zabuza in Taijutsu, then he wouldn't skip his first two dances and jump to the third against Zabuza.



Lee noted before he used the Initial Lotus that he was already significantly weakened, so I don't find that very impressive.










Look at this later scan of Zabuza's distance from Kakashi in the Water Prison:

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As you can see, when Zabuza was attacked, he furthered his distance. Notice the distance between Kakashi's shoulders and Zabuza's hand, that distance is longer than the bones Kimi has on his back and chest area in your scan.

Also, as long as Zabuza keeps one hand in the prison, he can still hold it. Zabuza, as shown against Naruto jumped in the air and moved his hand up to avoid the Fuma Shuriken. If Kimi uses his bones to try to penetrate the prison, Zabuza can simply move his sand down or up or even to the sides of the prison. Even in your scan, there are spaces between Kimi's bones where Zabuza can place his arm.




Zabuza's Prison is twice the size of Kakashi, Kimimaro will fit and I can't see why Zabuza wouldn't be able to adjust the prison and make it bigger. He has shown huge Suiton, he has the chakra to do so.

You're forgetting Kimimaro took the full impact of Gaara's sand. Kimimaro wasn't strong enough to push it away when Gaara compressed it. He only pushed off the sand when Gaara let his control of the sand go, which is why when Kimi pushed it off, the sand simply fell to the ground and was no longer in Gaara's grasp. I can provide scans.



Kimimaro used his Bone Forest on the same page he got buried. It's more than likely he used his tech before he was buried down too deep to move a finger.



I'm not saying it isn't possible that Kimi can break the prison, I'm saying IMO I think it's unlikely because it's stronger than steel, which is stronger than Gaara's sand.



Can't you debate with respect? You sound like a total douche

1. Prove that since kisame was inside it was that eff. Link please? As far as i Know there is only 1 water prison! And Guy with a Blunt Force was able to penetrate Kisames with ease. Lets not make anything up from now on and except manga facts unless you can post a link stating why Guy was able to penetrate from databook or manga! lol

2. Neji broke out of it easily, it was plot that he didnt break out of it sooner (nothing suggest he couldnt do it in the beginning). Again, you cannot prove tha it is a weaker version. It is clearly called Water prison! And post a link of it being harder then steal please!

3. Link showing/stating it was weaker.

4. Kimmi used his bones because he was serious and they all had swords (which you then seen his bone and there swords clash), Do Zabuza hold a huge sword? Dont be foolish now, it was Not because he was out numbered. When he faced Lee and Naruto he was playing around and letting do what ever they wanted to do. Fact of the manga suggest he can do what ever he wants "In character" This literally debunked your intire thread since you seemed to think he does things in steps. Which was retared btw. Kimmi does what ever the Situation Tells him to do. Seeing a Ninja with a sword (huge one) lik ethe Samurais would tell him he better do the Bone armor to fight correct?

5. Lee was blurred fasted, and normaly that kick sends em flying.

6. Kimmi easily breaks out of it extending his bones or transforming. If you think Zabuza still makes it bigger (which he doesnt) then Im done.

Ask the base What they think after my facts about Kimmi, and your fan made out comes that benefit Zabuza. Which one will win?

I can debate with respect, but your a Fanboi and are stubburn. You think Zabuza is better then he is, let it go Kid. Its not that serious.

Merry Christmas btw.

 

[Totsuka gg Amaterasu gg]

You are aware of the fact that Kimimaro was moving his body with will only, right? He should't have been even able to stand up back then, yet look at what he did to Lee and Gaara.

Healthy Kimimaro would easily defeat Zabuza.

healthy kimi is a fanfiction.. *cgh* according to the leader of the Tsunade fanboys

 

[ShaneEyyy]

1. Prove that since kisame was inside it was that eff. Link please? As far as i Know there is only 1 water prison! And Guy with a Blunt Force was able to penetrate Kisames with ease. Lets not make anything up from now on and except manga facts unless you can post a link stating why Guy was able to penetrate from databook or manga! lol

Manga facts has it that Kakashi and Rock Lee, both strong opponenets, couldn't move a muscle in the Water Prison from the inside while an opponent held the prison from the outside. Manga has it that you can penetrate the prison from the outside, but not that far.

You can't deny that. What I have stated was exactly what was shown and nothing suggests otherwise it would be wrong.

2. Neji broke out of it easily, it was plot that he didnt break out of it sooner (nothing suggest he couldnt do it in the beginning). Again, you cannot prove tha it is a weaker version. It is clearly called Water prison!

I'll say it one more time, Neji broke out of the prison easily because he knows the Gentle Fist and released chakra from all of his Tenketsu points. Kimimaro doesn't know the Gentle Fist, thus bringing up Neji isn't even a factor. Great ninja like Kakashi and Lee couldn't even escape.

3. Link showing/stating it was weaker.

I don't need a link. Fact remains that a opponent stuck inside the prison while an opponent grips the prison with 1 hand (Zabuza with Kakashi, Kisame with Lee and Tenten), couldn't move at all in the prison. Manga fact right there.

4. Kimmi used his bones because he was serious and they all had swords (which you then seen his bone and there swords clash), Do Zabuza hold a huge sword? Dont be foolish now, it was Not because he was out numbered. When he faced Lee and Naruto he was playing around and letting do what ever they wanted to do. Fact of the manga suggest he can do what ever he wants "In character" This literally debunked your intire thread since you seemed to think he does things in steps. Which was retared btw. Kimmi does what ever the Situation Tells him to do. Seeing a Ninja with a sword (huge one) lik ethe Samurais would tell him he better do the Bone armor to fight correct?

Kimimaro viewed Naruto as a brat, which is why when he was outnumbered by his clones, Kimi didn't even feel the need to go to his 3rd+ dances. It was only when we has outnumbered by skill Taijutsu users that he jumped to his 3rd dance. When he faced Lee, a very skilled user, he went from 1st dance to second dance to third dance. If Lee as you said is a stronger Taijutsu user than Zabuza, I don't see why Kimi will feel more threatened and jump to his 3rd dance.

5. Lee was blurred fasted, and normaly that kick sends em flying.

Yeah but as I said, Lee was weakened and had already used a lot of his strength.

6. Kimmi easily breaks out of it extending his bones or transforming. If you think Zabuza still makes it bigger (which he doesnt) then Im done.

Well for one I don't believe Zabuza needs to make it bigger, but nothing tells me that he couldn't. He has shown large scale Suiton, I don't see why he couldn't simply use more chakra and make the prison more suitable. But again, I don't think that is needed.

Ask the base What they think after my facts about Kimmi, and your fan made out comes that benefit Zabuza. Which one will win?

Most of the base thinks Kimi wins and I understand why. I personally think Kimi has the edge. This thread is basically just saying Zabuza can pull it off.

I can debate with respect, but your a Fanboi and are stubburn. You think Zabuza is better then he is, let it go Kid. Its not that serious.

Why are you calling me a kid? Are you trying to sound superior to me or something? I'm 17 years old. Call me ShaneEyyy or something.

Merry Christmas btw.

Merry Christmas to you too buddy, hope it's a good one.


Also, I'm about to hit 7 rep bars, a fan boy can't do that lol

 

[AGoodBoy]

Just give the hell up. Your arguments are weak as shit.
Your only argument is water prison and you're relying on some nonsense that "neji saw the weak point" which is unsupported by this manga.
Kimi is a tier over zabuza. No one cares if you don't want to believe that; orochimaru called him invincible; Lee called him a taijutsu master; but all you're clinching on is "zabuza is elite jounin" like that counts for anything.

You're clearly one of those that think kimimaro is a chunnin. That's your business.

 

[ShaneEyyy]

Just give the hell up. Your arguments are weak as shit.
Your only argument is water prison and you're relying on some nonsense that "neji saw the weak point" which is unsupported by this manga.
Kimi is a tier over zabuza. No one cares if you don't want to believe that; orochimaru called him invincible; Lee called him a taijutsu master; but all you're clinching on is "zabuza is elite jounin" like that counts for anything.

You're clearly one of those that think kimimaro is a chunnin. That's your business.

That was a dumb post

Neji broke out of the prison because he knows Gentle Fist and released chakra from all of his Tenketsu points, releasing the prison. How about you give the hell up on that idiotic argument because 1. Kimi doesn't have Neji's Kekkei Genkai and 2. Neji didn't use anything to "penetrate" or "break out" of the prison. He released chakra through every tenketsu point in his body and he is the only one in the series that has shown such a feat. You say my arguments are weak yet you try to pull this bullshit.

Kimi and Zabuza are definitely in the same tier and I can show you multiple threads of people agreeing and or placing them in the same tier as a way to show I'm not just fanboying here.

Orochimaru never called him invincible, unless you can provide a scan and prove me wrong? Plus, Zabuza said no one could match Haku in speed, yet Sasuke beat him at the aspect. Tenten said Neji has the ultimate defense that is stronger than Gaara's and we all know that's BS. Characters hype up other characters all the time. It's nothing to focus on in a debate.

If you're going off what people have said, Suigetsu said Zabuza was a master Kenjutsu user, wielding his Great Beheader sword. Chojuro said he was so powerful that he couldn't believe Sasuke beat him and doubted himself in beating Sasuke. Kakashi said it was a miracle his team made it out unharmed because he was such a powerful opponent. I can play your little game too.

I think Kimi is elite jounin-low kage

Now why don't you make like a good boy and be quite, alright buddy?

 

[AGoodBoy]

That was a dumb post

Neji broke out of the prison because he knows Gentle Fist and released chakra from all of his Tenketsu points, releasing the prison. How about you give the hell up on that idiotic argument because 1. Kimi doesn't have Neji's Kekkei Genkai and 2. Neji didn't use anything to "penetrate" or "break out" of the prison. He released chakra through every tenketsu point in his body and he is the only one in the series that has shown such a feat. You say my arguments are weak yet you try to pull this bullshit.

Kimi and Zabuza are definitely in the same tier and I can show you multiple threads of people agreeing and or placing them in the same tier as a way to show I'm not just fanboying here.

Orochimaru never called him invincible, unless you can provide a scan and prove me wrong? Plus, Zabuza said no one could match Haku in speed, yet Sasuke beat him at the aspect. Tenten said Neji has the ultimate defense that is stronger than Gaara's and we all know that's BS. Characters hype up other characters all the time. It's nothing to focus on in a debate.

If you're going off what people have said, Suigetsu said Zabuza was a master Kenjutsu user, wielding his Great Beheader sword. Chojuro said he was so powerful that he couldn't believe Sasuke beat him and doubted himself in beating Sasuke. Kakashi said it was a miracle his team made it out unharmed because he was such a powerful opponent. I can play your little game too.

I think Kimi is elite jounin-low kage

Now why won't you make like a good boy and be quite, alright buddy?

Lmao, multiple people think he's a chunnin. Multiple people also think mei is jounin. What multiple people think is irrelevant because they didn't write this manga.
Zabuza is on the same tier as kimi because he has one circumstantial jutsu you assume will work?
Just put muu and onoki on hashiramas level because if they hit they can get the kill even though they're canonically inferior I'm everything else, like zabuza, right?

You can write all you want, zabuza doesn't stand a ghost of a chance against oros most prized vessel.

 

[Masked man]

Kimimaro wins against this fodder with extremly low difficulty.

 

[Penguin]

Manga facts has it that Kakashi and Rock Lee, both strong opponenets, couldn't move a muscle in the Water Prison from the inside while an opponent held the prison from the outside. Manga has it that you can penetrate the prison from the outside, but not that far.

You can't deny that. What I have stated was exactly what was shown and nothing suggests otherwise it would be wrong.



I'll say it one more time, Neji broke out of the prison easily because he knows the Gentle Fist and released chakra from all of his Tenketsu points. Kimimaro doesn't know the Gentle Fist, thus bringing up Neji isn't even a factor. Great ninja like Kakashi and Lee couldn't even escape.




I don't need a link. Fact remains that a opponent stuck inside the prison while an opponent grips the prison with 1 hand (Zabuza with Kakashi, Kisame with Lee and Tenten), couldn't move at all in the prison. Manga fact right there.



Kimimaro viewed Naruto as a brat, which is why when he was outnumbered by his clones, Kimi didn't even feel the need to go to his 3rd+ dances. It was only when we has outnumbered by skill Taijutsu users that he jumped to his 3rd dance. When he faced Lee, a very skilled user, he went from 1st dance to second dance to third dance. If Lee as you said is a stronger Taijutsu user than Zabuza, I don't see why Kimi will feel more threatened and jump to his 3rd dance.



Yeah but as I said, Lee was weakened and had already used a lot of his strength.



Well for one I don't believe Zabuza needs to make it bigger, but nothing tells me that he couldn't. He has shown large scale Suiton, I don't see why he couldn't simply use more chakra and make the prison more suitable. But again, I don't think that is needed.



Most of the base thinks Kimi wins and I understand why. I personally think Kimi has the edge. This thread is basically just saying Zabuza can pull it off.



Why are you calling me a kid? Are you trying to sound superior to me or something? I'm 17 years old. Call me ShaneEyyy or something.



Merry Christmas to you too buddy, hope it's a good one.


Also, I'm about to hit 7 rep bars, a fan boy can't do that lol

>I am a fanboy
>Has 11 rep bars
>Who even cares about rep?

 

[ShaneEyyy]

>I am a fanboy
>Has 11 rep bars
>Who even cares about rep?

As I said before, you are one of the most immature members on this site.

This was just an instigating post. All you did was attempt to insult me by calling me a fanboy, then you proceed to brag about how you have more rep bars than me. Then here, after you brag about you rep bars, you then say "who even cares about rep? Clearly you do if you're just posting to point out you have more rep.

I don't even know why you even bother to post. Clearly we never agree on anything, yet you keep constantly and constantly posting instigating comments on my threads that will of course not help persuade me to your opinion.

Get out of here dude, I no longer want to even try to debate with you.

Kimimaro wins against this fodder with extremly low difficulty.

You always call Zabuza fodder and say he loses every match. Even when it was Darui vs Zabuza, which majority of the people voted Zabuza as Zabuza obviously has the edge, you said Darui wins extremely low diff. Just like that Penguin guy, you love to instigate too.

I don't understand people like you. Even on Christmas you would think, "Maybe I shouldn't be a douche today and admire ShaneEyyy's good looks" but no, you don't care.

Lmao, multiple people think he's a chunnin. Multiple people also think mei is jounin. What multiple people think is irrelevant because they didn't write this manga.
Zabuza is on the same tier as kimi because he has one circumstantial jutsu you assume will work?
Just put muu and onoki on hashiramas level because if they hit they can get the kill even though they're canonically inferior I'm everything else, like zabuza, right?

You can write all you want, zabuza doesn't stand a ghost of a chance against oros most prized vessel.

You think because Zabuza has 1 jutsu that can potentially beat Kimimaro decides what tier their in? Ignorant. Tiers are determined by a characters overall strength, not who loses to who, it doesn't work that way.

Orochimaru's prized vessel was actually Sasuke, and Oro said that Kimimaro is useless to him and simply a pawn. Gaara called him a pawn as well. Nice try lol

 

[Draegod]

As I said before, you are one of the most immature members on this site.

This was just an instigating post. All you did was attempt to insult me by calling me a fanboy, then you proceed to brag about how you have more rep bars than me. Then here, after you brag about you rep bars, you then say "who even cares about rep? Clearly you do if you're just posting to point out you have more rep.

I don't even know why you even bother to post. Clearly we never agree on anything, yet you keep constantly and constantly posting instigating comments on my threads that will of course not help persuade me to your opinion.

Get out of here dude, I no longer want to even try to debate with you.



You always call Zabuza fodder and say he loses every match. Even when it was Darui vs Zabuza, which majority of the people voted Zabuza as Zabuza obviously has the edge, you said Darui wins extremely low diff. Just like that Penguin guy, you love to instigate too.

I don't understand people like you. Even on Christmas you would think, "Maybe I shouldn't be a douche today and admire ShaneEyyy's good looks" but no, you don't care.



You think because Zabuza has 1 jutsu that can potentially beat Kimimaro decides what tier their in? Ignorant. Tiers are determined by a characters overall strength, not who loses to who, it doesn't work that way.

Orochimaru's prized vessel was actually Sasuke, and Oro said that Kimimaro is useless to him and simply a pawn. Gaara called him a pawn as well. Nice try lol

No. The body oru really wanted even more so then sasuke was kimmi. He states kimmi has the perfect body. I'm at work but I'll link you later when not on my phone. ??????

 

[ShaneEyyy]

No. The body oru really wanted even more so then sasuke was kimmi. He states kimmi has the perfect body. I'm at work but I'll link you later when not on my phone. ������

Yeah I already know that. I'm saying later on when kid Sasuke who was weaker than Kimi was going to Oro, he simply tossed Kimi aside like a pawn. But this is all insignificant to the topic really

 

[Saiken stomps]

I know everyone thinks Kimimaro beats Zabuza, and I used to think that too; however, after watching his battle with Lee and Gaara, I noticed something and changed my mind.


First let me start off by saying Kimimaro beats Zabuza out of character because of his Bone Forest. His Bone Forest can catch Zabuza off guard from the ground just like Kakashi's Ninken did. Zabuza would probably be able to avoid this by standing on his sword balanced on the bones, but Kimi can become one with the bones and catch Zabuza off guard like he did with Gaara and kill him.

In character, Zabuza beats him mid-high diff. Kimimaro's Bone Forest is his fifth and last dance. He uses his other dances first, of course. His first dance is Dance of the Willow. Lee who had a 4/5 for Taijutsu, 3.5/5 for Strength, and 4/5 for Speed according to the data book was able to land a hit on Kimimaro in his first dance:

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Lee may have been using Drunken Fist, but he was still considerably weakened due to not having a full recovery from his surgery, yet he was still able to land a hit.

Zabuza has a 4.5/5 for Taijutsu, plus his Kubikiribochi which is superior to Lee's, has a 4/5 for Strength, which is superior to Lee's, and has a 4/5 for Speed, matching Lee. If Lee was able to land a hit when he was weakened, Zabuza, who has superior skills will be able to keep up if not be more successful than Lee in CQC with Kimimaro. He won't get "stomped" if he comes close like many of you have said in the past regarding this match up.


Even when Kimimaro moved on to his second dance, Dance of the Camellia:

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Lee was still capable of landing multiple hits:

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It wasn't until Kimimaro's third dance, Dance of the Larch that surprise attacks couldn't/can't work on him:

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What I'm getting at here is that until Kimimaro goes into his third dance and further progresses to his fifth dance, Zabuza has a good chance in beating him.


As we all know, Zabuza barely has anything in his arsenal that can beat Kimimaro. Due to Kimimaro's bone membrane, even if Zabuza landed a slash with his sword via Silent Killing, it wouldn't pierce Kimimaro enough to make it fatal. Kimimaro tanked Gaara's sand so Zabuza's large scale Suiton is almost useless in this fight. There is one thing that Zabuza has that can beat Kimimaro, and that is his Water Prison Jutsu.

Kimimaro may be able to tank incredible amount of pressure, but he has shown nothing that suggests he can breathe underwater. Zabuza's only way of beating Kimi is drowning him, and this isn't a difficult task.


How Zabuza can pull it off:

In the mist, Kimimaro is a sitting duck. He has no idea where Zabuza is, thus he can only be on the defense. Zabuza always moves in with Water Clones first for caution, as shown against Kakashi:

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When Zabuza didn't use clones, he used shuriken:

Spoiler

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No matter if he uses clones or shuriken, Kimimaro's Kekkei Genkai will be revealed and Zabuza will know physical attacks won't work on him.

Even though Kimimaro could easily destroy Zabuza's Water Clones, the clones will still be useful because once they disperse, they will surround Kimimaro with water.

With Kimimaro being in his first dance or even second dance due to it only being the start of the fight, if Zabuza happens to appear behind Kimimaro, Kimimaro won't be able to extend his bones from his back body to counter because he can only accomplish the feat of having bones come out from any part of this body in his third dance. Kimimaro will be in his first, maybe second dance at the most.

Zabuza as I said before will find out physical attacks don't work and that's what his Kenjutsu, Silent Killing, and large scale Suiton is all about, so he will know his only resort is to drown Kimimaro.

Zabuza, being safe appearing behind Kimimaro due to Kimi not entering his third dance yet can successfully use the surrounding water from the clones and capture him in his Water Prison, similar to what he did to Kakashi:

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Zabuza using the tactic of using Water Clones to surround the opponent in water to proceed to use another Suiton is very probable. He has actually already shown to use this tactic in the short panel time he had:

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Zabuza noted that he and Haku had the first advantage because he used his Water Clones to surround Team 7 with water, allowing Haku to proceed to use another Suiton:

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Zabuza will use clones to surround Kimi with water then catch him with a Water Prison via Silent Killing. If for some reason CQC won't allow Zabuza to catch Kimi off guard, he can always use Giant Vortex Jutsu:

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and swoop Kimimaro away then catch him in a Water Prison while Kimi is off his feet already in water.

Also, nothing suggests Kimimaro has knowledge on Zabuza so he wouldn't go right to his third dance because he has no idea Zabuza has Water Prison Jutsu, not even Kakashi knew and Zabuza was in his Bingo book



In closure, Kimimaro doesn't start off with his fifth dance, Bone Forest. He does his dances in order from first to last and in the beginning of the fight, Kimi will be in his first dance. It isn't until his third dance where he can extend his bones anywhere from his body, thus Zabuza is safe appearing behind him and capturing him in a Water Prison to drown him, which will defeat him.

Zabuza can beat Kimimaro mid-high diff. It may be hard to believe, but he is capable of it.

Try to consider what I have said, hopefully we can have a good debate here! Also Merry Christmas Eve fellas!

*bows down* ShaneEyyy is now Naruto Base's solo king, if anyone questions your authority, show them your Saiken stomps seal of aproval

 

[-Sky-]

Just keep pushing on Shane . No one has the guts to admit that they're wrong so instead they post ignorant comments .

OT: Both have good chances at winning .

 

[Draegod]

Yeah I already know that. I'm saying later on when kid Sasuke who was weaker than Kimi was going to Oro, he simply tossed Kimi aside like a pawn. But this is all insignificant to the topic really

Kimmi was sick, that is the reason Oru didnt want him or couldnt have him anymore. It wasnt because of sasuke. Regardless if he got kimmi or not he wanted sasuke for his eyes and kimmi for his body.

 

[ShaneEyyy]

Just keep pushing on Shane . No one has the guts to admit that they're wrong so instead they post ignorant comments .

OT: Both have good chances at winning .

Exactly, they keep posting very insignificant arguments. I agree both have good chances.

Kimmi was sick, that is the reason Oru didnt want him or couldnt have him anymore. It wasnt because of sasuke. Regardless if he got kimmi or not he wanted sasuke for his eyes and kimmi for his body.

That really doesn't matter or have to do with anything

 

[miromiro]

Low chances. Kimmimaro wins it 9 out of 10 times.

 

[TheCCV]

I disagree.
If push comes to shove, Kimimaro just uses his Curse Mark to make that graveyard thing with all the bones, and Zabuza has no counter to that.

 

[ShaneEyyy]

I disagree.
If push comes to shove, Kimimaro just uses his Curse Mark to make that graveyard thing with all the bones, and Zabuza has no counter to that.

I'm saying that if Zabuza uses his clones in time and keeps Kimi on his feet he can pull it off.

I mean I admit Kimi has the edge but you gotta bear with me here, Zabuza does have a chance

 

[Icelerate]

I love how Shaneyyy managed to out debate against quite a few users in a thread where Zabuza is clearly outclassed. My respect for his debating skill went up considerably.