Zabuza has his chances against Kimimaro

[ShaneEyyy]

I know everyone thinks Kimimaro beats Zabuza, and I used to think that too; however, after watching his battle with Lee and Gaara, I noticed something and changed my mind.


First let me start off by saying Kimimaro beats Zabuza out of character because of his Bone Forest. His Bone Forest can catch Zabuza off guard from the ground just like Kakashi's Ninken did. Zabuza would probably be able to avoid this by standing on his sword balanced on the bones, but Kimi can become one with the bones and catch Zabuza off guard like he did with Gaara and kill him.

In character, Zabuza beats him mid-high diff. Kimimaro's Bone Forest is his fifth and last dance. He uses his other dances first, of course. His first dance is Dance of the Willow. Lee who had a 4/5 for Taijutsu, 3.5/5 for Strength, and 4/5 for Speed according to the data book was able to land a hit on Kimimaro in his first dance:

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Lee may have been using Drunken Fist, but he was still considerably weakened due to not having a full recovery from his surgery, yet he was still able to land a hit.

Zabuza has a 4.5/5 for Taijutsu, plus his Kubikiribochi which is superior to Lee's, has a 4/5 for Strength, which is superior to Lee's, and has a 4/5 for Speed, matching Lee. If Lee was able to land a hit when he was weakened, Zabuza, who has superior skills will be able to keep up if not be more successful than Lee in CQC with Kimimaro. He won't get "stomped" if he comes close like many of you have said in the past regarding this match up.


Even when Kimimaro moved on to his second dance, Dance of the Camellia:

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Lee was still capable of landing multiple hits:

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It wasn't until Kimimaro's third dance, Dance of the Larch that surprise attacks couldn't/can't work on him:

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What I'm getting at here is that until Kimimaro goes into his third dance and further progresses to his fifth dance, Zabuza has a good chance in beating him.


As we all know, Zabuza barely has anything in his arsenal that can beat Kimimaro. Due to Kimimaro's bone membrane, even if Zabuza landed a slash with his sword via Silent Killing, it wouldn't pierce Kimimaro enough to make it fatal. Kimimaro tanked Gaara's sand so Zabuza's large scale Suiton is almost useless in this fight. There is one thing that Zabuza has that can beat Kimimaro, and that is his Water Prison Jutsu.

Kimimaro may be able to tank incredible amount of pressure, but he has shown nothing that suggests he can breathe underwater. Zabuza's only way of beating Kimi is drowning him, and this isn't a difficult task.


How Zabuza can pull it off:

In the mist, Kimimaro is a sitting duck. He has no idea where Zabuza is, thus he can only be on the defense. Zabuza always moves in with Water Clones first for caution, as shown against Kakashi:

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When Zabuza didn't use clones, he used shuriken:

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No matter if he uses clones or shuriken, Kimimaro's Kekkei Genkai will be revealed and Zabuza will know physical attacks won't work on him.

Even though Kimimaro could easily destroy Zabuza's Water Clones, the clones will still be useful because once they disperse, they will surround Kimimaro with water.

With Kimimaro being in his first dance or even second dance due to it only being the start of the fight, if Zabuza happens to appear behind Kimimaro, Kimimaro won't be able to extend his bones from his back body to counter because he can only accomplish the feat of having bones come out from any part of this body in his third dance. Kimimaro will be in his first, maybe second dance at the most.

Zabuza as I said before will find out physical attacks don't work and that's what his Kenjutsu, Silent Killing, and large scale Suiton is all about, so he will know his only resort is to drown Kimimaro.

Zabuza, being safe appearing behind Kimimaro due to Kimi not entering his third dance yet can successfully use the surrounding water from the clones and capture him in his Water Prison, similar to what he did to Kakashi:

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Zabuza using the tactic of using Water Clones to surround the opponent in water to proceed to use another Suiton is very probable. He has actually already shown to use this tactic in the short panel time he had:

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Zabuza noted that he and Haku had the first advantage because he used his Water Clones to surround Team 7 with water, allowing Haku to proceed to use another Suiton:

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Zabuza will use clones to surround Kimi with water then catch him with a Water Prison via Silent Killing. If for some reason CQC won't allow Zabuza to catch Kimi off guard, he can always use Giant Vortex Jutsu:

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and swoop Kimimaro away then catch him in a Water Prison while Kimi is off his feet already in water.

Also, nothing suggests Kimimaro has knowledge on Zabuza so he wouldn't go right to his third dance because he has no idea Zabuza has Water Prison Jutsu, not even Kakashi knew and Zabuza was in his Bingo book



In closure, Kimimaro doesn't start off with his fifth dance, Bone Forest. He does his dances in order from first to last and in the beginning of the fight, Kimi will be in his first dance. It isn't until his third dance where he can extend his bones anywhere from his body, thus Zabuza is safe appearing behind him and capturing him in a Water Prison to drown him, which will defeat him.

Zabuza can beat Kimimaro mid-high diff. It may be hard to believe, but he is capable of it.

Try to consider what I have said, hopefully we can have a good debate here! Also Merry Christmas Eve fellas!

 

[Nattana]

You are aware of the fact that Kimimaro was moving his body with will only, right? He should't have been even able to stand up back then, yet look at what he did to Lee and Gaara.

Healthy Kimimaro would easily defeat Zabuza.

 

[genii96]

Kimimaro wins low diff

 

[paratise]

Okay going on databook regarding to Lee's taijutsu will prove next to nothing. Drunk Lee would beat Zabuza in taijutsu he has no counters to his moveset; Zabuza's attacks are much more linear and predictable. Hand to hand combat is much deeper than that.

Zabuza survived being sunked into sand for how many meters and breaked out/survived it water prison won't cut it against a curse mark user.

...

Though i really don't want to debate this with you.

 

[sharingansennin]

I agree with Shane he's one of my favorite poster's because he does his research and makes logical tactical strategies out of that. Zabuza could drown him, Zabuza is an Elite Jounin no doubt about it, it still surprises me so many consider him fodder because he lost that fight.

 

[SasoriOfTheRedSaand]

You rely way too much on the Databook, Shane.

 

[Prince Charles]

Sorry didnt have to read ot know the obvious, kimi rapes for the most part.

 

[ShaneEyyy]

Okay going on databook regarding to Lee's taijutsu will prove next to nothing. Drunk Lee would beat Zabuza in taijutsu he has no counters to his moveset; Zabuza's attacks are much more linear and predictable. Hand to hand combat is much deeper than that.

Zabuza survived being sunked into sand for how many meters and breaked out/survived it water prison won't cut it against a curse mark user.

...

Though i really don't want to debate this with you.

Zabuza's Water Prison was noted to be stronger than steel. Kimimaro's bones are not stronger than steel, they won't penetrate the prison.

Also, Kimimaro moved Gaara's sand after Gaara stopped controlling it which is why Kimi was able to move it. I can provide scans.

I agree with Shane he's one of my favorite poster's because he does his research and makes logical tactical strategies out of that. Zabuza could drown him, Zabuza is an Elite Jounin no doubt about it, it still surprises me so many consider him fodder because he lost that fight.

They are just stubborn. I have countered everything and showed manga proof. But whatever

 

[paratise]

You rely way too much on the Databook, Shane.

This is another thing...
DB scores say Hinata is more intelligent than Neji, Kiba and Deidara are as fast as Sasuke and Lee on foot(4,5), Gai is physically strong as Tsunade, Gai has a decent ninjutsu (yet people don't bring up basics like bunshin or kawarimi for him in any debate), Iruka(26) is stronger than Lee(22) and Temari(24,5) etc...

Those numbers are not telling who is better than who. For part 1, Lee and Neji shared 3,5 in taijutsu; Lee had 4 in speed and Neji had 3. İt did not stop Lee from getting defeated and made Neji superior in such regard.

 

[Rike Senju]

You overrate zabuza. Kimi wasn't even healthy and tanked sand tsunami and sand burial like a champ. He would stomp zabuza.

 

[genii96]

Zabuza's Water Prison was noted to be stronger than steel. Kimimaro's bones are not stronger than steel, they won't penetrate the prison.

Also, Kimimaro moved Gaara's sand after Gaara stopped controlling it which is why Kimi was able to move it. I can provide scans.



They are just stubborn. I have countered everything and showed manga proof. But whatever

okay lets see:
kimi's bones easily resisted samurai chakra infused blades,cut through metal shurikens,took on sand burials,giant sand burials and being buried at a level where steel gets crushed,and it wasnt scatched. Kimi's bones in base are stronger than steel,going up to cs2 they are something els.

Now you say lee hit him,kimi moved on will poer alone,he wasnt supposed to be able to move at all,yet look how he performed. Also lee hit him when he wasnt really serious,drunken lee was too unpredictable,base bee thrashed 3t sasuke because of this feature,yet sasuke dodged 3tailed bee because his attack was linear. Kimi caught gated lee's punch with his bones without even flinching when he got serious and was about to finish lee if gaara didnt come.

Going by databook stats,kimi has superior taijutsu,this is without his bones.

Zabuza's sword wont breach kimi's bones at all,and kimi will be too unpredictable,zabuza gets beaten quickly if he goes for taijutsu or kenjutsu,especially if kimi uses his spine or bone drill.

Zabuza's suiton would be dodged or tankes,water prison gets broken out of if he actually gets kimi in it. As for Zabuza's mist,kimi would simply use his bone forest to kill zabuza.

In the end kimi wins.

 

[SasoriOfTheRedSaand]

This is another thing...
DB scores say Hinata is more intelligent than Neji, Kiba and Deidara are as fast as Sasuke and Lee on foot(4,5), Gai is physically strong as Tsunade, Gai has a decent ninjutsu (yet people don't bring up basics like bunshin or kawarimi for him in any debate), Iruka(26) is stronger than Lee(22) and Temari(24,5) etc...

Those numbers are not telling who is better than who. For part 1, Lee and Neji shared 3,5 in taijutsu; Lee had 4 in speed and Neji had 3. İt did not stop Lee from getting defeated and made Neji superior in such regard.

#Straight Fax

 

[Europa]

Is this some joke?

Kimimaro beats Zabuza low diff. Mid at best if Zabuza opts to hide in the mist for ages.

 

[Prince Charles]

First off I don't know why your bringing up taijutsu Db scores for lee and zabuza when it's painfully obvious Lee>Zabuza in taijutsu. Especially in his drunken state, zabuza won't be capable of pulling off those same feats as lee did.

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^Db scan in regards to lee's taijutsu, lee is at master status. So while I respect you as a debater because your good please don't pull that databook score nonsense because you and me both know Lee shits on zabuza in a straight taijutsu match when we compare their overall taijutsu feats. So I won't even acknowledge the part of your post in regards to zabuza landing a hit on kimimaro just because Lee did.

Anyways you go straight to water prison jutsu which is zabuza's only way of defeating kimimaro with the combo of using hidden mist no jutsu because we both know zabuza isnt pulling that off without the hidden mist on his side and im sort of confused, once kimimaro finds himself in a bind such as the hidden mist where his vision is impaired and cannot see his opponent wouldnt he use bone forest right off the bat? in all seriousness I see no reason why kimimaro wouldnt go straight to bone forest once the mist starts to come up as long as zabuza is within range of kimimaro which he most likely will be he get's one shotted with bones for the most part.

That being said if the mist goes up kimim should logically resort to bone forest which is pretty much GG in my book, if by some chance he doesnt and zabuza manages to get him in a water prison I suppose it's in zabuza's favor of the match but im skeptical whether or not kimimaro's bones can break the water prison.

But for the most part kimimaro rapes zabuza neg-low diff.

 

[genii96]

This is another thing...
DB scores say Hinata is more intelligent than Neji, Kiba and Deidara are as fast as Sasuke and Lee on foot(4,5), Gai is physically strong as Tsunade, Gai has a decent ninjutsu (yet people don't bring up basics like bunshin or kawarimi for him in any debate), Iruka(26) is stronger than Lee(22) and Temari(24,5) etc...

Those numbers are not telling who is better than who. For part 1, Lee and Neji shared 3,5 in taijutsu; Lee had 4 in speed and Neji had 3. İt did not stop Lee from getting defeated and made Neji superior in such regard.

no,hinata maybe more intelligent,we never had the time to compare them,deidara reacted to sasuke's shushin whille on foot,kiba and akamaru mostly train in speed and heightened senses due to being from the inzuka clan. Highest score is 5,so no matter how strong you are the highest you get is 5,that just means both have great physical strength. Gai used a kuchiyose,so he is adept in ninjutsu.

Overall scores just show how much you score in each department,it just shows how balanced as a shinobi you are,but dosent determine the winner in a fight.

 

[AGoodBoy]

1) Kimimaro was canonically supposed to be paralysed and moved off willpower. He wasn't even at his best

2) Kimimaro's stats beat zabuza's

3) You do realize lee only hit kimimaro because, like kimimaro said, his attacks were too unpredictable. It's the exact same reason bee hit sasuke; Not because bee was faster, or better, but because his attacks were whack as hell. Zabuza's attack patterns are completely predictable, standard attack styles.

4) You realise your strategy is completely circumstantial around the fact that they're near a water sourcee right? Zabuza needs water to do anything.

5) Kimimaro's could probably bust water prison by entering CS-V2 anyway; just like Neji was able to bust a supposedly inescapable prison with force.

EDIT: 6) Kimimaro doesn't need to do the dances in any order. The dances are completely dependant on what form of the cursed mark he's in. Dance 1 to 2 = base; Dance 3 = CS-v1; Dance 4 to 5 = CS-v2. Like sasuke, Kimi can pop into CS-v2 whenever he pleases. He just had no reason to go H.A.M on fodder. Why would he go CS-V2 on guys who couldn't touch him in base? Lmao. That's like kakashi whipping out sharingan on naru-saku-sasuke in ep 3.

Most importantly, Zabuza has nothing to put kimimaro down with apart from a circumstantial water prison. Even in the mist, kakashi was able to react, and kimim's stats are actually above that part 1 kakashi. All kimi needs to do is protrude bones to parry zabuza's attacks.

zabuza will never win this. IF and that's a big IF, zabuza even lands a hit on kimimaro, kimimaro could just heal it up. Kimimaro won't even need his bone armor for this.

 

[ShaneEyyy]

You rely way too much on the Databook, Shane.

SsoriOfTheRedSaand the data bo- wait a second...you're not Sasori of the Red Sand! He died in early Shippuden, plus you even spelled his name wrong! You're an impostor!

But anyways, I only used the data book in my beginning argument. I literally used 14 scans of manga material, thus I relied on the manga more than the data book.

Sorry didnt have to read ot know the obvious, kimi rapes for the most part.

I'll counter you in your next post, just hold on buddy

This is another thing...
DB scores say Hinata is more intelligent than Neji, Kiba and Deidara are as fast as Sasuke and Lee on foot(4,5), Gai is physically strong as Tsunade, Gai has a decent ninjutsu (yet people don't bring up basics like bunshin or kawarimi for him in any debate), Iruka(26) is stronger than Lee(22) and Temari(24,5) etc...

Those numbers are not telling who is better than who. For part 1, Lee and Neji shared 3,5 in taijutsu; Lee had 4 in speed and Neji had 3. İt did not stop Lee from getting defeated and made Neji superior in such regard.

Drop the data book argument. I supplied way more significant arguments in the thread. My data book argument shouldn't even be a main focus. Plus, I didn't use the data book to determine who is overall stronger like how you are interpreting I did, giving examples of how Iruka's overall score is higher than Temari's.

You can use the data book to determine certain areas such as speed, strength, etc. But you can't use the overall score to determine who is the stronger ninja. For example, if I asked you who is faster, Temari or Zabuza, who would you say? You'd say Zabuza because he has the higher data book score for speed, however the data book is outdated so you can only use the data book for past characters, such as Part 1 Lee and Zabuza

You overrate zabuza. Kimi wasn't even healthy and tanked sand tsunami and sand burial like a champ. He would stomp zabuza.

Yeah I know he is a tank, that's why Zabuza needs to drown him.

okay lets see:
kimi's bones easily resisted samurai chakra infused blades,cut through metal shurikens,took on sand burials,giant sand burials and being buried at a level where steel gets crushed,and it wasnt scatched. Kimi's bones in base are stronger than steel,going up to cs2 they are something els.

Now you say lee hit him,kimi moved on will poer alone,he wasnt supposed to be able to move at all,yet look how he performed. Also lee hit him when he wasnt really serious,drunken lee was too unpredictable,base bee thrashed 3t sasuke because of this feature,yet sasuke dodged 3tailed bee because his attack was linear. Kimi caught gated lee's punch with his bones without even flinching when he got serious and was about to finish lee if gaara didnt come.

Going by databook stats,kimi has superior taijutsu,this is without his bones.

Zabuza's sword wont breach kimi's bones at all,and kimi will be too unpredictable,zabuza gets beaten quickly if he goes for taijutsu or kenjutsu,especially if kimi uses his spine or bone drill.

Zabuza's suiton would be dodged or tankes,water prison gets broken out of if he actually gets kimi in it. As for Zabuza's mist,kimi would simply use his bone forest to kill zabuza.

In the end kimi wins.

Can I get a scan of him cutting through metal shurikens? I don't believe that ever happened.

True, his bones are very durable, but as I said the prison is said to be stronger than steel. I doubt Kimi's bones are even as strong as steel. We are talking about steel dude, steel.

I already know Kimi can tank his Suitons, I'm saying his Suitons could be used to get Kimi off his feet in order for the Water Prison to be accomplished.

First off I don't know why your bringing up taijutsu Db scores for lee and zabuza when it's painfully obvious Lee>Zabuza in taijutsu. Especially in his drunken state, zabuza won't be capable of pulling off those same feats as lee did.

Kishi says Zabuza is more skilled at Taijutsu at the time than Lee. This isn't debatable. It's true you can't use the data book to determine who is overall stronger, but you can use it to determine certain areas. Read what I explained to Caterpillar above.

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^Db scan in regards to lee's taijutsu, lee is at master status. So while I respect you as a debater because your good please don't pull that databook score nonsense because you and me both know Lee shits on zabuza in a straight taijutsu match when we compare their overall taijutsu feats. So I won't even acknowledge the part of your post in regards to zabuza landing a hit on kimimaro just because Lee did.

The data book also said Asuma was the best CQC ninja in the leaf, but we know that's untrue. The data book also stated that Kakuzu's Domu can't be penetrated, but we all know that's untrue. If you're telling me not to use stats from the data book, then please don't pull that data book profile nonsense.

Lee had a taijutsu of 4, and that's a fact. Yes his Taijutsu at the time was incredible, for his age. Lee was just a Genin, Zabuza was an Elite Jounin. I don't see what's so hard to believe that Zabuza was more skilled at Taijutsu than Lee at the time. I feel like everybody is thinking of Part 2 Lee.

Are you forgetting Zabuza is a master too at CQC? Zabuza was one of the Legendary Ninja Swordsmen of the Hidden Mist, noted to be in the best generation. His swordsmanship was highly respected by Suigetsu and Chojuro, both skilled users in CQC. Zabuza's CQC shouldn't be taken lightly, especially with his huge Beheader Blade, which can allow him to keep a better distance from Kimimaro than Lee, avoiding more injury.

Lee at the time wasn't more skilled at Taijutsu than Zabuza, which is why Lee had a 4 and Zabuza has a 4.5.

Also you brought up how Lee had more Taijutsu feats than Zabuza.... Lee faced Naruto and Sasuke early in Part 1 who had lacking skill in Taijutsu and faced Gaara who is shit at Taijutsu. He may have landed a few hits on Kimi but that's because Kimi wasn't even in his 3rd dance.

Anyways you go straight to water prison jutsu which is zabuza's only way of defeating kimimaro with the combo of using hidden mist no jutsu because we both know zabuza isnt pulling that off without the hidden mist on his side and im sort of confused, once kimimaro finds himself in a bind such as the hidden mist where his vision is impaired and cannot see his opponent wouldnt he use bone forest right off the bat? in all seriousness I see no reason why kimimaro wouldnt go straight to bone forest once the mist starts to come up as long as zabuza is within range of kimimaro which he most likely will be he get's one shotted with bones for the most part.

Well one nothing suggests Kimimaro has knowledge on Zabuza. He wouldn't think and react that fast as you make it out to be. I see Kimimaro just being calm and waiting in the mist until Zabuza strikes. Kimimaro is very confident with his Taijutsu, as he he mentioned his shock that Lee could even land a hit on him. I'm sure Kimimaro would try out his first and second dance first, as he has shown to go in order.

That being said if the mist goes up kimim should logically resort to bone forest which is pretty much GG in my book, if by some chance he doesnt and zabuza manages to get him in a water prison I suppose it's in zabuza's favor of the match but im skeptical whether or not kimimaro's bones can break the water prison.

Read the title of my thread. It may well be possible that Kimi might just resort to Bone Forest. I said Zabuza has his chances. If Kimi can't break the Water Prison, he will drown. Zabuza can potentially win this.

But for the most part kimimaro rapes zabuza neg-low diff.

Dude you should be more understanding of this thread. You made a thread Yamato vs Tsunade and literally everyone disagreed with you. I'm now in the same situation you are in. Dude you gotta feel me man lol

1) Kimimaro was canonically supposed to be paralysed and moved off willpower. He wasn't even at his best

Ok

2) Kimimaro's stats beat zabuza's

No they both have 30.5

3) You do realize lee only hit kimimaro because, like kimimaro said, his attacks were too unpredictable. It's the exact same reason bee hit sasuke; Not because bee was faster, or better, but because his attacks were whack as hell. Zabuza's attack patterns are completely predictable, standard attack styles.

lol Sasuke had a 3.5/5 for Taijutsu at the time. To the bold, yes it is because Bee is better. Bee is obviously far above Sasuke in CQC, which is why he stomped him. This isn't debatable and I'm not even going to debate this because of the Sasuke fanboys.

4) You realise your strategy is completely circumstantial around the fact that they're near a water sourcee right? Zabuza needs water to do anything.

Nameless, fodder Chuunin during the war arc were shown to use the B rank Suiton Water Wall to hold off Madara's Katon. If fodder Chuunin could make their own Suiton, Zabuza, an elite jounin and great Suiton user can as well. Common sense really.

5) Kimimaro's could probably bust water prison by entering CS-V2 anyway; just like Neji was able to bust a supposedly inescapable prison with force.

Neji's case was completely different because he used his Byakugon to find the prison's weak point, then released chakra from all his chakra points. Don't even try to use that weak argument.

EDIT: 6) Kimimaro doesn't need to do the dances in any order. The dances are completely dependant on what form of the cursed mark he's in. Dance 1 to 2 = base; Dance 3 = CS-v1; Dance 4 to 5 = CS-v2. Like sasuke, Kimi can pop into CS-v2 whenever he pleases. He just had no reason to go H.A.M on fodder. Why would he go CS-V2 on guys who couldn't touch him in base? Lmao. That's like kakashi whipping out sharingan on naru-saku-sasuke in ep 3.

That is true. I'm just saying it's unlikely and that he would more than likely try to use his first dance first because he is confident with his abilities, as I explained above to Prince Charles.

Most importantly, Zabuza has nothing to put kimimaro down with apart from a circumstantial water prison. Even in the mist, kakashi was able to react, and kimim's stats are actually above that part 1 kakashi. All kimi needs to do is protrude bones to parry zabuza's attacks.

The Water Prison is the only way, yes, and with mist and clone feints it is plausible.

Where did you get Kimi's stats are above Kakashi's?? That's bullsh*t. Kimi has a 30.5 and Part 1 Kakashi had a 33 lol

zabuza will never win this. IF and that's a big IF, zabuza even lands a hit on kimimaro, kimimaro could just heal it up. Kimimaro won't even need his bone armor for this.

Zabuza can potentially win

 

[AGoodBoy]

Ok



No they both have 30.5



lol Sasuke had a 3.5/5 for Taijutsu at the time. To the bold, yes it is because Bee is better. Bee is obviously far above Sasuke in CQC, which is why he stomped him. This isn't debatable and I'm not even going to debate this because of the Sasuke fanboys.



Nameless, fodder Chuunin during the war arc were shown to use the B rank Suiton Water Wall to hold off Madara's Katon. If fodder Chuunin could make their own Suiton, Zabuza, an elite jounin and great Suiton user can as well. Common sense really.



Neji's case was completely different because he used his Byakugon to find the prison's weak point, then released chakra from all his chakra points. Don't even try to use that weak argument.



That is true. I'm just saying it's unlikely and that he would more than likely try to use his first dance first because he is confident with his abilities, as I explained above to Prince Charles.




The Water Prison is the only way, yes, and with mist and clone feints it is plausible.

Where did you get Kimi's stats are above Kakashi's?? That's bullsh*t. Kimi has a 30.5 and Part 1 Kakashi had a 33 lol



Zabuza can potentially win

No one's talking overall because that's irrelevant. Genjutsu stats? Ninjutsu stats? What do i care. Kimi beats him in the relevant stats - Taijutsu, speed, stamina. And, if he opens CS, he beats him in strength also.

>Implying I'm a sasuke Fan.
Common sense would tell you that the sharingan compensates for his lack of skill. The sharingan allows him to read movement and predict attacks perfectly. Km1 naruto was faster than him at vote, yet he bested him. That's my point right there. It was due to unpredictability like the manga stated.

Unsupported common sense? Yea, I believe it is. Zabuza's a Swordsman, not a suiton specialist; Nothing suggest he can make his own water seeing as he never did when he could've used it. Common sense really...

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? He just used his kaiten to bust it with chakra.

It's irrelevant which dance he even uses seeing as his healing can easily stand up to any cuts by the great beheader... Considering kimimaro's going up against a swordman, his first tactic would be to pull out a bone weapon. With his speed, agility, and taijutsu which all surpass zabuza, there's nothing suggesting zabuza even gets a hit on. When zabuza uses the mist, only a fool would stand there care-free. Kimi would open is CS-V1 at the very least.

Again with the irrelevant overal stats. Is kimi going to use Genjutsu? Ninjutsu? Does he ever even use handseals? Why do I care about any of this in a taijutsu match up? Irrelevant stats don't help in a CQC battle. I'm not expecting kimimaro to hypnotise zabuza.

 

[Prince Charles]

Kishi says Zabuza is more skilled at Taijutsu at the time than Lee. This isn't debatable. It's true you can't use the data book to determine who is overall stronger, but you can use it to determine certain areas. Read what I explained to Caterpillar above.

Doesnt matter I go off of what the manga has shown us which clearly saids Lee>Zabuza in terms of taijutsu.

The data book also said Asuma was the best CQC ninja in the leaf, but we know that's untrue. The data book also stated that Kakuzu's Domu can't be penetrated, but we all know that's untrue. If you're telling me not to use stats from the data book, then please don't pull that data book profile nonsense.

Regarding asuma that depends on kishi's standards when he said that. He simply said no one is more skilled in close arm combat than asuma in the hidden leaf maybe at the time kishi wrote that there was no on at the leaf at that current point of time that was more skilled in asuma in close arm combat.

He said domu can be penetrated which is true but then goes on to say lightning base techniques can penetrate it.

I am not saying dont use states but when it's clear as day lee's taijutsu>zabuzas taijutsu dont try to argue against it because when it comes to that area lee wins.

Lee did have a 4 for a gennin, zabuza had a 4.5 for a elite jounin, that just goes to show the gap wasnt that great and with the taijutsu feats that have both displayed Lee is superior in taijutsu, a extra .5 doesnt mean much to me specially when lee has demonstrated better taijutsu feats which again goes back to the fact that you cant say zabuza will be able to lands hit on kimimaro the way lee did just because he had a higher taijutsu score.

Are you forgetting Zabuza is a master too at CQC? Zabuza was one of the Legendary Ninja Swordsmen of the Hidden Mist, noted to be in the best generation. His swordsmanship was highly respected by Suigetsu and Chojuro, both skilled users in CQC. Zabuza's CQC shouldn't be taken lightly, especially with his huge Beheader Blade, which can allow him to keep a better distance from Kimimaro than Lee, avoiding more injury.

Zabuza a master at CQC? CQC isnt exactly taijutsu if thats what your trying to say?

Lee at the time wasn't more skilled at Taijutsu than Zabuza, which is why Lee had a 4 and Zabuza has a 4.5.

Feat's suggest other wise friend. Don't over exaggerate that .5 which could had been added due to his swordsmanship possibly.

Also you brought up how Lee had more Taijutsu feats than Zabuza.... Lee faced Naruto and Sasuke early in Part 1 who had lacking skill in Taijutsu and faced Gaara who is shit at Taijutsu. He may have landed a few hits on Kimi but that's because Kimi wasn't even in his 3rd dance.

Who he showed his feats against isnt of much importance but the quality of those feats and the fact that his feats are still greater than zabuza.

Well one nothing suggests Kimimaro has knowledge on Zabuza. He wouldn't think and react that fast as you make it out to be. I see Kimimaro just being calm and waiting in the mist until Zabuza strikes. Kimimaro is very confident with his Taijutsu, as he he mentioned his shock that Lee could even land a hit on him. I'm sure Kimimaro would try out his first and second dance first, as he has shown to go in order.

It's a possibility he may try his other dances before bone forest we do not know, I simply find it more accurate to think he would use bone forest in that type of situation.

Read the title of my thread. It may well be possible that Kimi might just resort to Bone Forest. I said Zabuza has his chances. If Kimi can't break the Water Prison, he will drown. Zabuza can potentially win this.

I read your OP when you saids zabuza has his chances against bone forest which I didnt agree with.

Dude you should be more understanding of this thread. You made a thread Yamato vs Tsunade and literally everyone disagreed with you. I'm now in the same situation you are in. Dude you gotta feel me man lol

Lmao I guess you have a point lol, and well some people agreed yamato can push her to some difficulty meaning he wont be a easy opponent. But regardless I do agree if zabuza can catch kimimaro in a water prison it's basically GG unless his bones can break it which I am a bit iffy on. Also I believe kimimaro's taijutsu and reaction and speed feats are over zabuzas.

But keep doing your thing nigga!

 

[ShaneEyyy]

Doesnt matter I go off of what the manga has shown us which clearly saids Lee>Zabuza in terms of taijutsu.



Regarding asuma that depends on kishi's standards when he said that. He simply said no one is more skilled in close arm combat than asuma in the hidden leaf maybe at the time kishi wrote that there was no on at the leaf at that current point of time that was more skilled in asuma in close arm combat.

He said domu can be penetrated which is true but then goes on to say lightning base techniques can penetrate it.

I am not saying dont use states but when it's clear as day lee's taijutsu>zabuzas taijutsu dont try to argue against it because when it comes to that area lee wins.

Lee did have a 4 for a gennin, zabuza had a 4.5 for a elite jounin, that just goes to show the gap wasnt that great and with the taijutsu feats that have both displayed Lee is superior in taijutsu, a extra .5 doesnt mean much to me specially when lee has demonstrated better taijutsu feats which again goes back to the fact that you cant say zabuza will be able to lands hit on kimimaro the way lee did just because he had a higher taijutsu score.



Zabuza a master at CQC? CQC isnt exactly taijutsu if thats what your trying to say?



Feat's suggest other wise friend. Don't over exaggerate that .5 which could had been added due to his swordsmanship possibly.



Who he showed his feats against isnt of much importance but the quality of those feats and the fact that his feats are still greater than zabuza.



It's a possibility he may try his other dances before bone forest we do not know, I simply find it more accurate to think he would use bone forest in that type of situation.



I read your OP when you saids zabuza has his chances against bone forest which I didnt agree with.



Lmao I guess you have a point lol, and well some people agreed yamato can push her to some difficulty meaning he wont be a easy opponent. But regardless I do agree if zabuza can catch kimimaro in a water prison it's basically GG unless his bones can break it which I am a bit iffy on. Also I believe kimimaro's taijutsu and reaction and speed feats are over zabuzas.

But keep doing your thing nigga!

There isn't much to say now. We clearly both have different opinions on the data book. Kishi put in the data book that Zabuza has a 4.5 and Lee has a 4. I think it's pretty simple that with Zabuza's years of time to hone his skills and being a Legendary Swordsmen, it isn't hard to believe that Zabuza was slightly above Lee in Taijutsu at the time, Lee only being a Genin and Zabuza being an elite jounin.

You ignore the data book and find it insignificant and just focus on what was shown in the manga, which in my opinion isn't the best bet because some characters get more panel time than others, thus have the opportunity to show more feats. I believe that is why Kishi made the stats in the first place, to flat out identify what a character can do and how skilled they are in an area.

But hey we can agree to disagree


To the bolded, that is all I'm saying man lol. I'm just explaining how Zabuza has a chance in winning. The bold is my point