Why do Hiruzen fans use this as a legitimate speed feat?

[Icelerate]

Apparently Hiruzen is as fast as Hashirama and Tobirama's full speed because he arrived at the same time to the battlefield as those two. Then they go on to say that due to the fact that the world was in imminent danger, all four of them obviously used their full speed.

Spoiler

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However, this is a fallacy and if we I use a similar kind of logic, Sakura, Temari and early Shippuden Naruto are just as fast as Kakashi. These

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out to help Sunagakure which was in a dire need since Gaara got captured by the Akatsuki so all four obviously used their full speed to reach Suna.

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.

Now obviously people who travel long distances with each other aren't as fast as each other in battle because speed in battle depends on how fast a ninja can accelerate. However, their max speed at long distances tends to be the same.

 

[Joker]

When a character has little to no feats; their fanboys are bound to start grasping for straws - Preacher of NB

 

[Icelerate]

When a character has little to no feats; their fanboys are bound to start grasping for straws - Preacher of NB

Indeed. I've seen a lot of people making ridiculous speed comparisons and showing how Hiruzen blitzes an obviously faster opponent.

 

[NOemotions]

hmm okay, this is pretty much same as brainless itachi fangirls.. they see itachi spamming shit while EDO TENSEI, and they wil think.. omg itachi can spam as much shit in alive as he could as edo tensei.. FALSE logic.. these fanboy... GIRLS are so god damn blind here..

 

[Rainbow Dash]

The problem with Kakashi and the gang was that they didn't use shunshin. Why would they want to leave their teammates behind?

 

[Untamed]

someone explained that picture pretty well maybe last week I think. I cant remember though.

Minato is the fastest : standing straight up and waiting on the others. (he was already there though) lol
Tobirama ( standing diagonal) closer to standing straight up 2nd fastest
Hashirama ( hunched over , bended knees) 3rd fastest
Hiruzen ( still on the ground) 4th fastest.

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[Icelerate]

The problem with Kakashi and the gang was that they didn't use shunshin. Why would they want to leave their teammates behind?

Since Suna was in danger they would have to hurry to Suna ASAP. Just like how the Hokages had to hurry to the battlefield. You're just grasping at straws and have no argument. Shunshin or whatever you want to call it, it doesn't matter, your argument is flawed from the start. In battle feats against an opponent are the only ones that matter.

 

[Europa]

It is. Hiruzen=< Hashirama in speed.

Manga has dictated such

 

[-Punk-]

When a character has little to no feats; their fanboys are bound to start grasping for straws - Preacher of NB

And the thread has been soloed , thanks Godly.

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[Icelerate]

It is. Hiruzen=< Hashirama in speed.

Manga has dictated such

Since when has the manga actually showed this in action? Travelling long distances means your average speed is the same as another but in battle, what matters is acute blitzing speed, not the capacity to maintain a high average speed.

 

[Rainbow Dash]

Since Suna was in danger they would have to hurry to Suna ASAP. Just like how the Hokages had to hurry to the battlefield. You're just grasping at straws and have no argument. Shunshin or whatever you want to call it, it doesn't matter, your argument is flawed from the start. In battle feats against an opponent are the only ones that matter.

Shunshin/Body Flicker is moving at high speeds. This is the difference between shunshin and non shunshin speeds is this:

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They aren't visible to the eye, to say the least.
You can clearly see in the next page, that Kakashi's group were moving at normal speeds. When they move at non-shunshin speeds, of course everyone is generally at the same pace. Even Pakkun proves so.
Yes, my argument about the whole world being in danger has holes. However, there is a clear difference with both scenarios that Kakashi's group were moving at normal speeds.

 

[Da Best Ever]

i dnt knw about speed but as far as power they are all in there together, obviously hashirama is clearly the strongest, secondly minato, and the 3rd and 2nd hokages can be fitted depending on the biased debater, what i do knw about hiruzen is he faced 2 edo's with unlimited chakra and immortals bodies+oro, and yall can say hashirama and tobirama wasnt at full power but still, unlimted chakra+immortal, if u dnt knw any sealing techs which most shinobi dnt, and some do now only because they had to learn in order to fight against the edo army, if u dnt knw any sealing techs u are finished, hiruzen knew only one sealing tech at the cost of his life, and a 50% hashirama can make a top 20 list+tobirama +oro, most shinobi cant survive as long as he did but he did which means had he been 10yrs younger like the manga said things would have been different

 

[Icelerate]

Shunshin/Body Flicker is moving at high speeds. This is the difference between shunshin and non shunshin speeds is this:

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They aren't visible to the eye, to say the least.
You can clearly see in the next page, that Kakashi's group were moving at normal speeds. When they move at non-shunshin speeds, of course everyone is generally at the same pace. Even Pakkun proves so.
Yes, my argument about the whole world being in danger has holes. However, there is a clear difference with both scenarios that Kakashi's group were moving at normal speeds.

I know the difference between shunshin and non shunshin.

Anyway, going by your logic, Sakura, Naruto, Temari possess the same non shunshin speed as Kakashi which is simply not true. Shunshin is basically utilizing precise chakra control to achieve instantaneous short term acceleration so this would be impractical to use while travelling long distances as one would tire very quickly. Luckily for the four Hokage, they were edos so this mode of travelling may have been pretty efficient. This doesn't mean Hiruzen can spam the same level of shunshin in an alive state.

Most of the time in battle, non shunshin speed is used and shunshins do happen but rarely.

 

[Murasame]

I'm pretty sure you're directing this to Kaaaant right? That thread he made and the people who posted in it who said Hiruzen>Sasuke in speed

 

[Icelerate]

I'm pretty sure you're directing this to Kaaaant right? That thread he made and the people who posted in it who said Hiruzen>Sasuke in speed

Zaru has said that Hiruzen blitzes Tsunade yet Hiruzen doesn't even have any blitzing feats. Just travelling a long distance as an edo.

 

[Murasame]

Zaru has said that Hiruzen blitzes Tsunade yet Hiruzen doesn't even have any blitzing feats. Just travelling a long distance as an edo.

Hiruzen blitzing Tsunade? Nah and if that's the only thing Zaru can use as proof in your OP that isn't going to cut it Lol

 

[Icelerate]

Hiruzen blitzing Tsunade? Nah and if that's the only thing Zaru can use as proof in your OP that isn't going to cut it Lol

This is the first time I'm debating with him so let's see how this goes. If this guy ends up being a stubborn Douche bag, I'll just classify him as a troll and ignore him much like a few others but I'm hoping this guy is sensible.

 

[Murasame]

This is the first time I'm debating with him so let's see how this goes. If this guy ends up being a stubborn Douche bag, I'll just classify him as a troll and ignore him much like a few others but I'm hoping this guy is sensible.

Yeah I hate when that happens.. it's why I usually refrain from posting in the vs. section. Anyways I'm pretty sure you got him with that last post of yours so any reply that still argues against you is most likely not worth your time.

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

Hiruzen has always been about all hype and no feats,so the fanboys will make huge leaps in logic to make him out to be the best.

 

[Rainbow Dash]

I know the difference between shunshin and non shunshin.

Anyway, going by your logic, Sakura, Naruto, Temari possess the same non shunshin speed as Kakashi which is simply not true. Shunshin is basically utilizing precise chakra control to achieve instantaneous short term acceleration so this would be impractical to use while travelling long distances as one would tire very quickly. Luckily for the four Hokage, they were edos so this mode of travelling may have been pretty efficient. This doesn't mean Hiruzen can spam the same level of shunshin in an alive state.

Most of the time in battle, non shunshin speed is used and shunshins do happen but rarely.

Yes your point stands about alive people not being able to spam shunshin. However, I don't see how it disproves Hiruzen's shunshin keeping up with Tobirama. Like you said, they could spam it as much as they want because they are edo tensei. But when they do spam as much as they want, Hiruzen's bursts led him to Tobirama's location at the same time. So I will concede on the part where if they were alive, the amount of times that each person can use differs. But I will still stand on my point that Hiruzen's short term speed is on par with Tobirama.

May I ask where it states or shows that shunshin is chakra/stamina taxing?

Let me ask you something. Who is faster, a non-shunshin Kakashi or Tsunade? Because during early part 2 as you've showcased, they took 3 days to reach Suna.

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According to Shikaku's map

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, the Juubi's location is somewhere within the purple circle. So basically, Hiruzen crossed the same distance that Kakashi took 3 days to cross in less than 1 hour(judging by how the Tenpenchii cloud disappeared by then).