Why do you hate motives?

[chaos control]

Everyone always complains about talk no jutsu. To me, that complaining is just illogical nagging! Talk no jutsu usually does not affect the battle and its outcome! At most it only prolongs the battle by interrupting it. However, the only instances where talk no jutsu has ever actually affected anything were the battle with Zabuza/Haku (because Haku just gave up after seeing Naruto's resolve and Zabuza just started crying and turned on Gato) and the battle with Pain (because Nagato ended up reviving everyone and dying). People complain about Obito being talk no jutsu'd, but that actually had no real effect on the battle. In the end Obito still got legitimately defeated and stripped of the bijuus! You can argue that Obito was nerfed, but that is a different issue that has nothing to do with him having a painful back story or being talk no jutsu'd (which is what I am talking about). Since Obito got talk no jutsu'd at the very end, it didn't really affect the fight (which is all that matters). Obito did not lose on purpose nor did he revive everyone. I know that he was about to revive everyone, but he was stopped (and that is all that matters on that issue). As long as a villain doesn't quit the battle, lose on purpose, go easy on the hero on purpose, revive everyone that he has killed, or undo all the damage that he has done, you should not care if the villain gets tnj'd! The battle just needs to be great! That is all that matters! If all of these criteria are met, then tnj doesn't affect anything (thus rendering your complaining pointless).

Furthermore, I don't know why you guys hate it when a villain has a motive! You guys do know that this series is not like DBZ where people just want to blow up planets and turn people to candy for no apparent reason. Unlike DBZ, none of the Naruto villains actually consider themselves evil in the first place! You guys don't seem to get that. You complain that you want a villain to be pure evil, but you forget that every major villain in this series had some kind of painful back story! They never considered themselves to be evil in the first place! They saw their own actions as justified! You guys are expecting them to be something that they never considered themselves to be in the first place! Even your beloved Orochimaru has a motive. Don't forget about his parents' deaths. Face it: We are not going to get some Freiza like villain that says "I'm evil and I just want to rule the world! I have no reason for this. I just randomly decided to do this one day while eating a bowl of soup."! Talk no jutsu and the motives do not matter as long as they don't hinder the battle or the progress of the plan!

Finally, lets talk about power. I won't say much about this because I have already done some threads about power, but from what I hear, a lot of you guys hate it when a villain has power because the fight becomes one sided. Well here's a thought: Instead of wanting the villain to be weaker, how about making the hero stronger? This way the fight can be balanced, while still being a battle above the level of Spongebob Squarepants! Weakness makes no sense in this type of manga! I can not emphasize that enough XD! That is all I have to say.

Share your thoughts.

 

[Raekwon26]

TNJ didn't effect the fight? Are you fricking kidding me?

 

[chaos control]

TNJ didn't effect the fight? Are you fricking kidding me?

No I am not kidding. All it did was prolong the fight because it kept interrupting it, but other than that it did nothing.

 

[Raekwon26]

No I am not kidding. All it did was prolong the fight because it kept interrupting it, but other than that it did nothing.

Really?
So all that garbage about their ideologies, making them second guess themselves did nothing? It had no bearing whatsoever?

Absolute joke.

 

[KingHashirama]

Because they want a DBZ manga, where it is pointless fighting. Though they should already know this manga isn't like that.

 

[SanjiNL]

Because they want a DBZ manga, where it is pointless fighting. Though they should already know this manga isn't like that.

This here.

 

[Raekwon26]

Because they want a DBZ manga, where it is pointless fighting. Though they should already know this manga isn't like that.

Yeah, sure they do.
It couldn't possibly be that they don't like being fed the same shit over and over and would like the story to actually progress or want some actual depth in the manga considering this isn't a disney movie.....

 

[chaos control]

Really?
So all that garbage about their ideologies, making them second guess themselves did nothing? It had no bearing whatsoever?

Absolute joke.

It did have no effect. Even had they not done all that talking, Obito would have still been stripped of the bijuus in the end. The outcome wouldn't change. Obito didn't second guess himself until the end.

 

[Raekwon26]

It did have no effect. Even had they not done all that talking, Obito would have still been stripped of the bijuus in the end. The outcome wouldn't change. Obito didn't second guess himself until the end.

Oh, you're going that route.
"The hero would have come out on top rubbish"

Nah, you don't say?

 

[chaos control]

Yeah, sure they do.
It couldn't possibly be that they don't like being fed the same shit over and over and would like the story to actually progress or want some actual depth in the manga considering this isn't a disney movie.....

Did you really just bring up depth? Please! I love DBZ as much as the next guy, but DBZ had no depth. It was just, defeat the villain. That is it. That pattern repeated through the whole series! Naruto (series) actually deals with personal and political matters.

 

[chaos control]

Oh, you're going that route.
"The hero would have come out on top rubbish"

Nah, you don't say?

Even ignoring this fact, it is not like the course of the battle would have been any different. What, do you think Obito would have suddenly started using the rinnegan or using more bijuudamas if the talking was not present? I think not.

 

[Raekwon26]

Did you really just bring up depth? Please! I love DBZ as much as the next guy, but DBZ had no depth. It was just, defeat the villain. That is it. That pattern repeated through the whole series! Naruto (series) actually deals with personal and political matters.

Please highlight where I mentioned DBZ here?

Depth? This manga has depth? It's at Disney levels.
What political issues are they dealing with?

Everything will be sorted out by peace and love, because you know, that's how things ALWAYS get sorted out.

 

[Raekwon26]

Even ignoring this fact, it is not like the course of the battle would have been any different. What, do you think Obito would have suddenly started using the rinnegan or using more bijuudamas if the talking was not present? I think not.

Then what's the point of the thread?

You're basically saying, "Naruto was always going to win, that's the way it has to be".

EVERYONE already knows that. The problem is how it came about.

 

[chaos control]

Then what's the point of the thread?

You're basically saying, "Naruto was always going to win, that's the way it has to be".

EVERYONE already knows that. The problem is how it came about.

How it came about? Obito got sliced by a perfect susanoo sword and had beasts extracted from him. What exactly is wrong with that method?

 

[Raekwon26]

How it came about? Obito got sliced by a perfect susanoo sword and had beasts extracted from him. What exactly is wrong with that method?

The fact that he was the basically a mock version of the SO6P
He should have never been in that position to begin with.
With all that power he had (MS, Rinnegan, 6 full Bijuus), you think it's OK that he basically did nothing except for talk the whole time and then get hit?

It was embarrassing and a waste of time.

 

[saw2097]

Because they want a DBZ manga, where it is pointless fighting. Though they should already know this manga isn't like that.

This here, people just want action, gore, and pointless fighting.

They hate character development and story.

 

[chaos control]

The fact that he was the basically a mock version of the SO6P
He should have never been in that position to begin with.
With all that power he had (MS, Rinnegan, 6 full Bijuus), you think it's OK that he basically did nothing except for talk the whole time and then get hit?

It was embarrassing and a waste of time.

He didn't talk for the whole time and then get hit. Let's review what he did as the 10 tails jinchuuriki:

1. He almost killed Naruto, Sasuke and even Minato multiple times (like when he grabbed Naruto and Sasuke's faces, when the little black ball was about to explode near Naruto, Sasuke and Minato, when the shinju grabbed Naruto and almost killed him, and when he shot the black technique at Naruto when Naruto was in the air). In all of the situations ghat I just mentioned, Naruto and company had to be saved by someone.

2. There was that tree of bijuudamas that would have killed the whole alliance.

3. He siphoned many shinobis' chakara and killed them.

Finally, lets not forget who his opponents were. He fought two perfect jinchuurikis of Kurama (one of which was a sage), two hiraishin users, an EMS user and an entire army.

Any way, considering what you said, it seems to me that you are just saying that he was bad because he did not show enough power, but that was due to his own stupidity. Talk no jutsu and ideology had nothing to do with that.

 

[Raekwon26]

This here, people just want action, gore, and pointless fighting.

They hate character development and story.

Yeah, sure they do.....

Or, they don't agree with everything Kishi does?

Yeah, I'll'll go with the second.

 

[ShishaMastah420]

Wall of text will not be read by me, idk why I even bothered commenting, maybe for post count? Maybe for attention? I still ain't Finna read that shizzz, paragraphs and spaces are your friend.

 

[Raekwon26]

He didn't talk for the whole time and then get hit. Let's review what he did as the 10 tails jinchuuriki:

1. He almost killed Naruto, Sasuke and even Minato multiple times (like when he grabbed Naruto and Sasuke's faces, when the little black ball was about to explode near Naruto, Sasuke and Minato, when the shinju grabbed Naruto and almost killed him, and when he shot the black technique at Naruto when Naruto was in the air). In all of the situations ghat I just mentioned, Naruto and company had to be saved by someone.

2. There was that tree of bijuudamas that would have killed the whole alliance.

3. He siphoned many shinobis' chakara and killed them.

Finally, lets not forget who his opponents were. He fought two perfect jinchuurikis of Kurama (one of which was a sage), two hiraishin users, an EMS user and an entire army.

Any way, considering what you said, it seems to me that you are just saying that he was bad because he did not show enough power, but that was due to his own stupidity. Talk no jutsu and ideology had nothing to do with that.

1. That wasn't him who did it. He had no control at that point.

2. Wow, it that it?

3. Again, he didn't do that. The Shinju did.

So what? He was basically a mock version of the SO6P, they shouldn't even be worthy of being in his presence. Unless you're trying to tell me that the Rinnegan, MS, 7 complete Bijuus isn't enough?

Down to his own stupidity? Why? Why didn't he attack? Was it because him and Naruto were going back and forth whining and crying about their ideologies? Was it because instead of actually moving forward, the TNJ was beginning to take effect?

And no, I think he's a bad character because his motives were embarrassing and quite clearly, he was set up to fail by Kishi for the longest time and instead of just ending it, Kishi prolonged it and thought that we were getting some deep background depth into his character when really, we didn't.

This is a problem I have with what you're saying though (not just you, others say it too), just because you like the way something is going, doesn't mean others have to, it doesn't mean they don't understand what's going on or what the Manga is about. More often than not, the majority of the people here know what the Manga is about and what messages it's trying to convey, that doesn't mean they have to agree and like everything they see and read in the Manga.