Madara CAN summon the Shin Sūsenju.

[Draphsin]

Yeah, no.

I fully believe that he could be capable of summoning it as well, but let's not forget;

(1) Madara has had Senjutsu chakra for a grand total of 30 seconds. Shin Shusenju was clearly Hashirama's greatest and most complex technique, I highly doubt that Madara can instantly just pop out Shin Shusenju, especially when he has had no experience with Senjutsu and how it's molded.

(2) Show me this magic scan where Madara see Hashirama's hand signs. More fanfiction.

(3) It's speculation and I wouldn't accept it in battle threads until it's confirmed in manga. You're using ABC logic (he used this with this, so this guy should be able to use this with this). Madara has shown no Mokuton feats that put him on Hashirama's level, and it's fan fiction to say he's as skilled with Mokuton as Hashirama.

Again, I believe he'll do it, but we need to see it first for confirmation.

Its not a summoning & you need to not think of it like that.

Shinsuusenju is a creation of mokuton, madara has seen how hashirama created it plus he has shown us complex jutsus such as FTW himself.

Do we need confirmation that hashi can use FTW? No, because madara copied exactly how it works & demonstrated it for us, hashi demonstrated to madara how to create the statue as well, so he should be able to do it & it would be illogical for him to be unable to given his current power/knowledge.

 

[Ahmed1993]

Thanks captain obvious

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[Booker]

Its not a summoning & you need to not think of it like that.

Shinsuusenju is a creation of mokuton, madara has seen how hashirama created it plus he has shown us complex jutsus such as FTW himself.

Do we need confirmation that hashi can use FTW? No, because madara copied exactly how it works & demonstrated it for us, hashi demonstrated to madara how to create the statue as well, so he should be able to do it & it would be illogical for him to be unable to given his current power/knowledge.

Never stated it was a summon, not sure where that's coming from.

By that logic Madara can do whatever the hell he wants with Mokuton, hell why not make a Shin Shusenju 3x the size Hashi made? It's just a creation, right?

Wrong. This isn't just some branches you pull out of the ground, this is an actual jutsu. Madara has shown neither the skill to do Mokuton on this scale nor is privy on how to do it.

I'm still waiting for scans in which Madara saw this jutsu being signed and formed.

 

[The Necromancer]

Never stated it was a summon, not sure where that's coming from.

By that logic Madara can do whatever the hell he wants with Mokuton, hell why not make a Shin Shusenju 3x the size Hashi made? It's just a creation, right?

Wrong. This isn't just some branches you pull out of the ground, this is an actual jutsu. Madara has shown neither the skill to do Mokuton on this scale nor is privy on how to do it.

I'm still waiting for scans in which Madara saw this jutsu being signed and formed.

Conversely, I would love to see a scan of Madara struggling to form any construct of mokuton.

 

[Booker]

Conversely, I would love to see a scan of Madara struggling to form any construct of mokuton.

He doesn't, but comparing Madara's mokuton to Hashirama's is laughable.

 

[Shura]

I disagree.

Because by that Logic:

1. Minato can use chakra cloak distribution, FRS even. I still see many saying he can't even use TBB even though he has Lol

2. Sasuke should pull Itachi's Tsukuyomi, Totsuka and Yata.

3. Oro can use Shinsusenjuu because he has mokuton and a sage mode

Unless Madara actually shows that in the manga he can't. For all we know it may need the scrolls that Hashirama carried with him to summon it. Also possible explanation as to why Hashirama himself hadn't used it U_U

Nice attempt. However, Minato doesn't have the Sharingan and he doesn't know the steps Naruto used for the Rasen Shuriken nor does he have Fuuton affinity.

Totsuka and Yata are weapons, not MS techniques. He already used Tsukuyomi on Bee.


Oro doesn't have Hashirama's Senjutsu nor does he know the steps.​

 

[Booker]

If you're going to say this, then I can say Naruto is the ten-tails host because he has each Bijuu's chakra within himself. He's just biding his time to use it effectively. :|

It hasn't happened, so it isn't fair to use it in threads. End of story. Once he shows it (and I believe he will), you can go Bat-Crap crazy, but as it stands I don't accept it as a confirmed feat so it cannot be used.

 

[RikudouMadara]

He doesnt possess the amount of senjutsu chakra that hashi has at full capacity SM.

I dont know how large in comparison it will be, but hashi being weakened & having a low amount of senjutsu chakra simply means that you will have a smaller jutsu in proportion.

I see.....it makes sense. I wonder though.....Madara has seemingly mastered SM. He is a practitioner of Senjutsu nao....and a user of Senjutsu can sense, and draw in natural energy, correct? Since SM is an outside source....wouldn't all of his techniques be based on his ability to draw in the amount of natural energy needed for whatever he needs?

I'm saying....if he can nao do Senjutsu, does he always have to be in Sage Mode? Or did he enter it the moment he took it....is it activated? Couldn't he go out of SM as everyone else with SM can do?

What im asking is....if one can utilize SM, then one can enter it and release from it at any point. Making everything Madara does dependant upon wether or not he can draw in the amount of natural energy needed. Hashirama was the gateway to let him use the ability, right? No disrespect of course just curious.....maybe Hashirama had a tad bit, but Madara can nao draw in natural energy, correct? As a practitioner of Senjutsu.....

 

[The Necromancer]

He doesn't, but comparing Madara's mokuton to Hashirama's is laughable.

Why? Was his Deep Forest Emergence any less powerful? Was Kakashi's water dragon and water vortex less powerful than Zabuza's? Was Itachi's Water dragon less powerful than Kabuto's? Madara has stated that SM was laughably easy to control, there's no reason to believe he can't create it.

 

[Draphsin]

Never stated it was a summon, not sure where that's coming from.

I fully believe that he could be capable of summoning it as well, but let's not forget;

I guess this wasnt you then?

By that logic Madara can do whatever the hell he wants with Mokuton, hell why not make a Shin Shusenju 3x the size Hashi made? It's just a creation, right?

He doesnt have the necessary senjutsu chakra, that is a physical limitation not a limitation on his knowledge. He can create it but it will be smaller, this is what I'm saying & if you read my other responses then you would also see me write that.

Size is a limitation.

Wrong. This isn't just some branches you pull out of the ground, this is an actual jutsu. Madara has shown neither the skill to do Mokuton on this scale nor is privy on how to do it.

Again you mention scale which is why you are wrong, madara created mokuton dragon before hashirama used it. People still gave it to hashi beforehand because madara said hashirama used it.

FTW was madara's feat alone, show me ascan of hashirama using FTW because that is impossible going by your logic.

I'm still waiting for scans in which Madara saw this jutsu being signed and formed.

Really? You wan't a scan of madara watching hashi literally create the statue in front of him? This is ridiculous lol, madara copied it at the VoTE fight & if you wan't scans of this obvious fact then I have better threads to waste my time in.

 

[RikudouMadara]

He doesn't, but comparing Madara's mokuton to Hashirama's is laughable.

They are comparable.....please don't laugh at me. :T_T: It is their ability to utilize Mokuton that draws a line between Madara and Hashirama I believe....

 

[Shura]

Yeah, no.

I fully believe that he could be capable of summoning it as well, but let's not forget;

(1) Madara has had Senjutsu chakra for a grand total of 30 seconds. Shin Shusenju was clearly Hashirama's greatest and most complex technique, I highly doubt that Madara can instantly just pop out Shin Shusenju, especially when he has had no experience with Senjutsu and how it's molded.

(2) Show me this magic scan where Madara see Hashirama's hand signs. More fanfiction.

(3) It's speculation and I wouldn't accept it in battle threads until it's confirmed in manga. You're using ABC logic (he used this with this, so this guy should be able to use this with this). Madara has shown no Mokuton feats that put him on Hashirama's level, and it's fan fiction to say he's as skilled with Mokuton as Hashirama.

Again, I believe he'll do it, but we need to see it first for confirmation.

1. Madara himself stated that Hashirama's Senjutsu is not hard for him to control. He has seen the steps Hashirama used to summon it. He can do it.

2. Because Madara's eyes weren't on him and he was looking at some flowers at the side. Amirite?

3. Nice try. Madara already shown that he can use the Mokuton on Hashirama's scale. If we were supposed to go by your logic then Hashirama doesn't have Flower Tree World until we actually see it.​

 

[Klad]

Nice thread and all , however , it's not confirmed until manga shows it , and as Draphsin said, it would be smaller than the original .

 

[Minator93]

Nice attempt. However, Minato doesn't have the Sharingan and he doesn't know the steps Naruto used for the Rasen Shuriken nor does he have Fuuton affinity.

Totsuka and Yata are weapons, not MS techniques. He already used Tsukuyomi on Bee.


Oro doesn't have Hashirama's Senjutsu nor does he know the steps.​

1. Minato knew the steps and was attempting to do it, given he has KCM, BM and all he should be able to do what Naruto does with his affinity [By the OT Logic]

2. Granted but they were locked within Itachi's eyes since Itachi never "Physically" used them and also Sasuke can't control S/T with his "Sharingan Genjutsu" [Which canonically is not tsukuyomi] unlike Itachi but he should by said Logic.

3. Oro has Hashirama's DNA and a Senjutsu of his own so why not?

 

[Booker]

I guess this wasnt you then?



He doesnt have the necessary senjutsu chakra, that is a physical limitation not a limitation on his knowledge. He can create it but it will be smaller, this is what I'm saying & if you read my other responses then you would also see me write that.

Size is a limitation.



Again you mention scale which is why you are wrong, madara created mokuton dragon before hashirama used it. People still gave it to hashi beforehand because madara said hashirama used it.

FTW was madara's feat alone, show me ascan of hashirama using FTW because that is impossible going by your logic.



Really? You wan't a scan of madara watching hashi literally create the statue in front of him? This is ridiculous lol, madara copied it at the VoTE fight & if you wan't scans of this obvious fact then I have better threads to waste my time in.

1. Madara himself stated that Hashirama's Senjutsu is not hard for him to control. He has seen the steps Hashirama used to summon it. He can do it.

2. Because Madara's eyes weren't on him and he was looking at some flowers at the side. Amirite?

3. Nice try. Madara already shown that he can use the Mokuton on Hashirama's scale. If we were supposed to go by your logic then Hashirama doesn't have Flower Tree World until we actually see it.​

I obviously meant summoning as in the general definition of the word (Call forth, produce) not as in Naruto terms of an actual summon, but I see how that could have been confusing.

Fine, if you all really want to prematurely consider that feat based off reasonable evidence, it looks like I can start giving Lee Hirudora in battles.

 

[Shura]

1. Minato knew the steps and was attempting to do it, given he has KCM, BM and all he should be able to do what Naruto does with his affinity [By the OT Logic]

2. Granted but they were locked within Itachi's eyes since Itachi never "Physically" used them and also Sasuke can't control S/T with his "Sharingan Genjutsu" [Which canonically is not tsukuyomi] unlike Itachi but he should by said Logic.

3. Oro has Hashirama's DNA and a Senjutsu of his own so why not?

1. Doesn't change the fact that he doesn't have the Fuuton affinity which is needed.

2. He still used Tsukuyomi, however, yes. He cannot use the S/T because he can't control it. Madara can control the statue because he can control the Senjutsu and Mokuton.

3. Dragon sages can't use Frog Kumite.

 

[Minator93]

1. Doesn't change the fact that he doesn't have the Fuuton affinity which is needed.

2. He still used Tsukuyomi, however, yes. He cannot use the S/T because he can't control it. Madara can control the statue because he can control the Senjutsu and Mokuton.

3. Dragon sages can't use Frog Kumite.

1. Wasn't particularly talking about futton [last post] but his own affinity U_U But still why overlook other stuff like cloak distribution, healing.

2. He didn't use "Tsukuyomi" he used "Genjutsu Sharingan" nothing canonically suggests that he has Tsukutomi and Viz translation further confirms that only Itachi had Tsukuyomi. Which again proves my point further U_U

3. Neither does Hashirama's senjutsu, I mean you do know that Hashirama uses a different SM from Naruto and Jiraya right?

 

[-Sky-]

So many fallacies being used to discredit the OP.

OT: He can summon it. He's used Mokuton masterfully up to this point, now that he has Hashirama's Sage Power he should be capable.

 

[Shura]

1. Wasn't particularly talking about futton [last post] but his own affinity U_U But still why overlook other stuff like cloak distribution, healing.

2. He didn't use "Tsukuyomi" he used "Genjutsu Sharingan" nothing canonically suggests that he has Tsukutomi and Viz translation further confirms that only Itachi had Tsukuyomi. Which again proves my point further U_U

3. Neither does Hashirama's senjutsu, I mean you do know that Hashirama uses a different SM from Naruto and Jiraya right?

1. Not everyone has an affinity. Who says he knows the steps do it with another affinity as well?

2. Reverted colors are the colors of Tsukuyomi. When Sasuke used it, the colors were reverted.

3. Your point? You need Hashirama's Senjutsu to summon the statue, not Kabuto's or Naruto's.

 

[Minator93]

1. Not everyone has an affinity. Who says he knows the steps do it with another affinity as well?

2. Reverted colors are the colors of Tsukuyomi. When Sasuke used it, the colors were reverted.

3. Your point? You need Hashirama's Senjutsu to summon the statue, not Kabuto's or Naruto's.

1. Not everyone? Really He did know because

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2. Colors? A Genjutsu controls Reality, colors are nothing U_U Read Kabuto vs Itachi Viz and you'll know Only Itachi has it [canonically]

3. I only said that because you mentioned frog jumite U_U