So your saying Smoker and Luffy brough each other to the brink of death numerous times? The only time they fought was in Marineford where Luffy wasn't even able to hit Smoker. Not to mention Smoker never brought Luffy near death and neither did Luffy.
So you forgot about Alabasta chase scenes etc. and in Loguetown when Smoker did generally nearly kill Luffy. Roger never said numerous times he simply said they had both nearly killed each other with no statistics of any kind. Stop making them up.
There was probably a time when Garp > Roger , but much like Luffy , Roger developed more quickly and ascended to the summit of strength at a much faster rate than Garp.
The way Oda is portraying Garp is that he was equal to Roger whereas Smoker is weak-sauce. Smoker ("Garp") got stomped by Law ("Whitebeard"). Until Oda states that Roger is superior to Garp or that Garp is superior to Roger you can't assume that Roger was stronger than Garp.
The way Oda is portraying Garp is basically an Old and Marine version of Luffy. He never mentioned anything about Garp being an equal. Whitebeard has been stated to be the only person to tie in a fight with Roger once he became Pirate King. This means that Garp would've lost every encounter during this time. And since Whitebeard was never successful in winning it's quite likely that Roger was stronger than Whitebeard too. Whitebeard would be the only person close to Roger in strength.
Well i did not mean friends like roger and rayleigh, i meant enough trust for roger to tell garp about his wife and son, any other marine would have chased them and killed them, there must be some backstory to it.
And that backstory would be fighting , Garp may have simply gained Rogers trust by being the strongest living and active Marine at that time. Still not a friendship.
Mid Diff would mean he would have little trouble against Smoker. Smoker almost choked Law , almost pinned him down too. So actually it was a high diff fight for sure.
I don't recall Law taking any damage during that fight. The closest thing was when Smoker choked him. Which Law easily got out of.
You must've edited the page for arguments sake in an attempt to save yourself from a beating. The rest of what you say is hereby pointless crap if you rely on Wiki pages. So I'll just ignore the worthless paragraph which follows your mention of "wiki"
Oda never stated Roger was superior to Garp. All he's been doing is making it look like Garp and Roger were equal. Anything else stated by fans is just speculation and bias. Not to mention even if WB was > Garp that doesn't mean Garp is weaker than Roger. ABC logic never works.
Garp was never stated to be Rogers equal. Oda has hinted at Roger being slightly superior to even Newgate. ABC logic works when you compare strength based upon hype and titles. King > Hero in terms of social status, in One Piece social status seems to be earned through individual strength. Done.
People say because Smoker is the Garp of this era he'll be Luffy's main rival which puts him automatically above Zoro and Sanji. Law ("Whitebeard") stomped Smoker ("Garp") now would WB ever be able to give Garp the same humiliating treatment Law gave to Smoker?
You're clearly blind then.
Roger>Whitebeard (Whitebeard never beat Roger. Only tied with him)>Garp
Luffy>Law=>Zoro (Smoker might be here) >Sanji (Smoker might be here)
Make a thread if you wish to discuss this because i'm done with the ridiculous argument that Smoker is>Zoro and Sanji because he's "Garp".
Since when??Most of the times Smoker ends up helping the Strawhats. PH only show us that Smoker and Tashigi are closer to ST's thinking and way of doing things. I can't see a "rivalry" here since Luffy is way ahead of Smoker's level at this point.
As for the Sanji vs Smoker, it's really uncertain for me. But I will go with Sanji at the end.
Manga clearly shows Smoker fighting Law on equal footing and losing due to being blind sighted by a rock. Luffy doesn't have 1 hit KO attacks like Law, I suppose this means Law is a lot stronger using your logic.
Please show me a scan where Sengoku says "Whitebeard is the strongest man in the world even with that stab in his chest". Your making stuff up. His showing in the war doesn't prove in any way that he's the strongest. His DF is what allowed him to wreck the place up. WB fodderised fodders. Garp is more than fast enough to dodge those quakes. Manga states Garp and WB were the only ones able to match Roger in strength. Arguing against Oda's words is pretty much futile.
There you go. I'm not silly enough to make things up such as Whitebeard being the strongest due to being physically strongest. Oh and btw, if someone Garp is more likely to be the physically strongest character in the series due. Lol, who said WB would just sit down and just rely on long ranged attack to beat Garp? He'll go up to him and stick his arm up his ass. Anyways, @ bold you must have missed the war. Oda went out of his way to have the man be stabbed, have a heart attack in the middle of a fight, get half of his face blown away and go through some more damage and yet still beat one of the strongest people in the world.
And no I'm not arguing against what Oda said, you are. Oda said only one man could match prime Roger and that was Whitebeard. Garp could do it at one point, but not when Roger was at his strongest. Comprende? It's simple if you care to give it a little thought.
Lol no it doesn't. Roger=WB. Garp being able to match Roger doesn't mean he could beat WB but at the same time that doesn't mean he's weaker than Roger. It's all about the match-up.
What the hell. Match ups mean jackshit if you're the strongest. Whitebeard was strongest alongside Roger. The two of them could beat anyone in a one on one fight, Garp is no exception to this rule. There's also the fact that Garp lost far less power than Whitebeard and yet was weaker than him.
Yet Oda let Law oneshot Smoker. Law has shown that he's above Sanji, Smoker has done no such thing. How did Smoker do better against Vergo than Sanji? Sanji never lost. Smoker got beat by Vergo and then Law proceeded to oneshot the same guy who beat Luffy's "main marine rival". Now what does that tell you about Luffy's "main marine rival"?
Sanji got his leg fractured against Vergo not using his main offence style while Smoker was matching a serious Vergo. Again, Law one shotting people is the nature of his devil fruit. Using that as some sort of proof that he's leagues above them is silly.
Even if Smoker is Luffy's main marine rival that alone isn't enough to put him above Sanji.
So you forgot about Alabasta chase scenes etc. and in Loguetown when Smoker did generally nearly kill Luffy. Roger never said numerous times he simply said they had both nearly killed each other with no statistics of any kind. Stop making them up.There was probably a time when Garp > Roger , but much like Luffy , Roger developed more quickly and ascended to the summit of strength at a much faster rate than Garp.
Except that Smoker wasn't even going to kill Luffy. He was about to capture Luffy. Not to mention the only time the two even fought was at MF where Luffy couldn't hit Smoker. Roger and Garp almost killed each other numerous times. There isn't a time where Luffy almost killed Smoker nor a time where Smoker almost killed Luffy.
@bold
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The way Oda is portraying Garp is basically an Old and Marine version of Luffy. He never mentioned anything about Garp being an equal. Whitebeard has been stated to be the only person to tie in a fight with Roger once he became Pirate King. This means that Garp would've lost every encounter during this time. And since Whitebeard was never successful in winning it's quite likely that Roger was stronger than Whitebeard too. Whitebeard would be the only person close to Roger in strength.
By that logic i could also say that since Roger never beat WB either it's quite likely that WB was stronger than Roger. It was never stated that Roger beat Garp or the other way around. The only thing that was stated was that Roger and Garp almost killed each other numerous times and that Garp always cornered him. Personally, i'm all in on WB being slightly stronger than Garp and equal to Roger. But ABC logic doesn't work so i still go with Roger=WB=>Garp=Roger (if that makes any sense).
My point: Your point is pure speculation. No one knows what happened so you saying that it could've happened doesn't prove anything.
Mid Diff would mean he would have little trouble against Smoker. Smoker almost choked Law , almost pinned him down too. So actually it was a high diff fight for sure.
High-diff means he would be bleeding and have some sort of notable injuries.
Low-diff= Throughout the whole fight the character is dominating the fight and is clearly superior but still tries to watch out for the enemies attacks
Mid-diff (Law vs Smoker)= The character clearly isn't going all out but seems to have some sort of little trouble
High-diff (Zoro vs Kaku)= The character has many notable injuries and is bleeding but still turns out as the victor
Extreme-diff (Luffy vs Lucci)= The character barely makes it out alive.
And @ Law almost getting choked by Smoker lol
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Smoker pinned him on the floor and tried to hit him with his Jitte. Law dodged the attack and remained unscathed. Meaning Smoker failed to choke and/or hit Law.
Smoker took less damage than Law during the fight until Law got his heart. So actually it was a very close fight.
Basic denial argument. Acting like the Wiki can't sometimes be used as a reliable argument.
You must've edited the page for arguments sake in an attempt to save yourself from a beating. The rest of what you say is hereby pointless crap if you rely on Wiki pages. So I'll just ignore the worthless paragraph which follows your mention of "wiki"
Garp was never stated to be Rogers equal. Oda has hinted at Roger being slightly superior to even Newgate. ABC logic works when you compare strength based upon hype and titles. King > Hero in terms of social status, in One Piece social status seems to be earned through individual strength. Done.
And how exactly did i do that? You simply misunderstood my post. Let's make it more clear shall we. I said people assume that because Smoker is the "Garp" it puts him automatically above Sanji. Nuff said.
You're clearly blind then. Roger>Whitebeard (Whitebeard never beat Roger. Only tied with him)>Garp
Luffy>Law=>Zoro (Smoker might be here) >Sanji (Smoker might be here)
So when exactly did Roger beat WB? WB tied with him. Never was it stated that Roger outright beat WB in a fight. I hate these speculation games. Especially when people tend to put Roger above anyone else via speculation even though Oda has done no such thing.
Someone said that because Smoker is Luffy's main marine rival that automatically puts him above Sanji. By that it should also put him above Zoro (Luffy's first mate) considering that Garp>Rayleigh. <<<<Not my logic. Some idiot implied that.
Anyways, whether Roger was or wasn't stronger than Garp has nothing to do with Sanji being weaker than Smoker. Even if Garp could beat Rayleigh and Gaban that doesn't mean Smoker can beat Zoro and Sanji. This thread is going by pure speculation and hype.
Seriously why is everyone going off topic here...this is a Sanji vs Smoker thread.
Anyway why is everyone judging Smoker so harshly for losing against Law...Law's devil fruit is perhaps the most overpowered in all of One Piece, unless you have extremely good info on his devil fruit you're going to lose. Not to mention Smoker gave Law one hell of a fight considering and back to my point before Law and Smoker battled Law had already defeated Sanji with no difficulty by putting his heart into Nami's body. Anyway using the Law vs Smoker battle to prove Sanji is stronger than Smoker is absolutely ridiculous like do you really think Sanji would have done any better.
Then we have the Vergo fight it was clear that in the Sanji and Vergo fight, Vergo was holding back a lot he barely punched and he never used his bamboo stick and even then Sanji was struggling to keep up his bones were breaking just from Vergo's kicks and they weren't even imbued with haki either.
While in the Smoker and Vergo fight Vergo took Smoker serious. I find it difficult to understand how people could think Sanji has shown more feats than Smoker Pre-Timeskip. When Sanji battled Doflamingo, Doflamingo did not take him serious and was playing with him while when Dolfamingo took Smoker out he was being serious due to the situation.
It's clear that Smoker is the marine that is constantly going to be tracking down Luffy in the New World and for that to keep happening then Smoker has to be close to Luffy in strength so for people to be saying that Smoker is weaker than the third strongest Strawhat just makes me laugh. The next time we see Smoker he'll be a lot stronger due to the events of Punk Hazard and I think what happened on PH was exactly what needed to happen to Smoker since we had never seen him struggle really throughout One Piece and it brings some realism into his character.
Now after his defeat to Doflamingo (He was already injured when the fight happened) he'll want to become stronger in order to stop the corrupt marines like Vergo and to follow and chase Luffy meaning Smoker will always be close to Luffy in strength and it makes no sense at all for Smoker to be weaker than Sanji when Smoker's objective is mostly capturing Luffy.
Unless we see something more from Sanji, Smoker is still stronger than him.
Smoker was only stomped by one opponent, Doflamingo but so was Sanji. He did a superb job against Law and Vergo which was far from stomping. White Hunter is stronger than Black Leg
Except that Smoker wasn't even going to kill Luffy. He was about to capture Luffy. Not to mention the only time the two even fought was at MF where Luffy couldn't hit Smoker. Roger and Garp almost killed each other numerous times. There isn't a time where Luffy almost killed Smoker nor a time where Smoker almost killed Luffy.
You still get my point though. Smoker could have killed Luffy (being driven to near death is literally just that.) At least you finally provided some form of proof.
By that logic i could also say that since Roger never beat WB either it's quite likely that WB was stronger than Roger. It was never stated that Roger beat Garp or the other way around. The only thing that was stated was that Roger and Garp almost killed each other numerous times and that Garp always cornered him. Personally, i'm all in on WB being slightly stronger than Garp and equal to Roger. But ABC logic doesn't work so i still go with Roger=WB=>Garp=Roger (if that makes any sense).
Since Whitebeard was praised for tying with Roger it's kind of obvious that this was seen as a great achievement as Roger was most likely stronger. If they were equal it would have been expected to have many ties and just as many victories as he had defeats. ABC logic doesn't work? I'm sorry? What!? Going by your logic there is no defined strongest character. Which is completely against the manga fact that Whitebeard at the time of his death was the strongest and greatest pirate. Much like how Roger was said to be the greatest pirate. Going against manga fact gets you anywhere but forwards.
My point: Your point is pure speculation. No one knows what happened so you saying that it could've happened doesn't prove anything.
That's not always the case. Moving around a lot can make a fight a high difficulty battle regardless of injuries. What truly defines a fights difficulty is the fighting capability of the victor after a battle. Because of Laws DF and its stamina consumption it's clear that because he used the Ope Ope no Mi for an extensive period of time that his ability to fight later would be hindered, making it a high difficulty battle.
Low-diff= Throughout the whole fight the character is dominating the fight and is clearly superior but still tries to watch out for the enemies attacks
Mid-diff (Law vs Smoker)= The character clearly isn't going all out but seems to have some sort of little trouble
High-diff (Zoro vs Kaku)= The character has many notable injuries and is bleeding but still turns out as the victor
Extreme-diff (Luffy vs Lucci)= The character barely makes it out alive.
Law was not dominating. Law seemed to be trying pretty hard in his fight with Smoker.
And @ Law almost getting choked by Smoker lol
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Smoker pinned him on the floor and tried to hit him with his Jitte. Law dodged the attack and remained unscathed. Meaning Smoker failed to choke and/or hit Law.
Pinning Law down was still more than Law had done in that fight until the conclusion. Law faced difficulty as you can see by the grimace on his face within your provided scans.
Law didn't really take any damage. Smoker had trouble fighting Law though. More so than Law had fighting Smoker.
Fatigue is a form of damage. Damage is anything that can hinder ones ability to fight. This can be mental or physical and dealt by anyone given the ability to do so.
Basic denial argument. Acting like the Wiki can't sometimes be used as a reliable argument.
A wiki of any kind can be edited by anyone. For all we know the page you read through could have been edited by yourself for arguments sakes or even some retarded 10 year old nooby OP fan who knows next to nothing.
Lol. Back on the assumption platform i see. Anyways, Garp and Roger are irrelevant here.
Since Whitebeard was praised for tying with Roger it's kind of obvious that this was seen as a great achievement as Roger was most likely stronger. If they were equal it would have been expected to have many ties and just as many victories as he had defeats.
And how exactly did i do that? You simply misunderstood my post. Let's make it more clear shall we. I said people assume that because Smoker is the "Garp" it puts him automatically above Sanji. Nuff said.
Smoker is most likely above Sanji. Your point? And Smoker shares too many similarities to not be "Garp".
So when exactly did Roger beat WB? WB tied with him. Never was it stated that Roger outright beat WB in a fight. I hate these speculation games. Especially when people tend to put Roger above anyone else via speculation even though Oda has done no such thing.
In the past. Since Whitebeard was praised for tying with Roger it's kind of obvious that this was seen as a great achievement as Roger was most likely stronger. If they were equal it would have been expected to have many ties and just as many victories as he had defeats.
Someone said that because Smoker is Luffy's main marine rival that automatically puts him above Sanji. By that it should also put him above Zoro (Luffy's first mate) considering that Garp>Rayleigh. <<<<Not my logic. Some idiot implied that.
Garp>Rayleigh on what basis? That "idiot" completely fodderized you in this debate , I don't even need to make an effort. So what does that make you?
Anyways, whether Roger was or wasn't stronger than Garp has nothing to do with Sanji being weaker than Smoker. Even if Garp could beat Rayleigh and Gaban that doesn't mean Smoker can beat Zoro and Sanji. This thread is going by pure speculation and hype.
Seriously why is everyone going off topic here...this is a Sanji vs Smoker thread.
Anyway why is everyone judging Smoker so harshly for losing against Law...Law's devil fruit is perhaps the most overpowered in all of One Piece, unless you have extremely good info on his devil fruit you're going to lose. Not to mention Smoker gave Law one hell of a fight considering and back to my point before Law and Smoker battled Law had already defeated Sanji with no difficulty by putting his heart into Nami's body. Anyway using the Law vs Smoker battle to prove Sanji is stronger than Smoker is absolutely ridiculous like do you really think Sanji would have done any better.
Then we have the Vergo fight it was clear that in the Sanji and Vergo fight, Vergo was holding back a lot he barely punched and he never used his bamboo stick and even then Sanji was struggling to keep up his bones were breaking just from Vergo's kicks and they weren't even imbued with haki either.
While in the Smoker and Vergo fight Vergo took Smoker serious. I find it difficult to understand how people could think Sanji has shown more feats than Smoker Pre-Timeskip. When Sanji battled Doflamingo, Doflamingo did not take him serious and was playing with him while when Dolfamingo took Smoker out he was being serious due to the situation.
It's clear that Smoker is the marine that is constantly going to be tracking down Luffy in the New World and for that to keep happening then Smoker has to be close to Luffy in strength so for people to be saying that Smoker is weaker than the third strongest Strawhat just makes me laugh. The next time we see Smoker he'll be a lot stronger due to the events of Punk Hazard and I think what happened on PH was exactly what needed to happen to Smoker since we had never seen him struggle really throughout One Piece and it brings some realism into his character.
Now after his defeat to Doflamingo (He was already injured when the fight happened) he'll want to become stronger in order to stop the corrupt marines like Vergo and to follow and chase Luffy meaning Smoker will always be close to Luffy in strength and it makes no sense at all for Smoker to be weaker than Sanji when Smoker's objective is mostly capturing Luffy.
Unless we see something more from Sanji, Smoker is still stronger than him.
do you know what is oneshotting? oneshot means that he won by just only 1 attack,law vs smoker lasted they had a mid-high dif,by your way of saying that every fight will end with oneshotting
You still get my point though. Smoker could have killed Luffy (being driven to near death is literally just that.) At least you finally provided some form of proof.
Alright then. Lets say Smoker almost killed Luffy once. Luffy still hasn't "almost killed" Smoker. Also, Luffy wasn't driven to near death. Not even close.
Since Whitebeard was praised for tying with Roger it's kind of obvious that this was seen as a great achievement as Roger was most likely stronger. If they were equal it would have been expected to have many ties and just as many victories as he had defeats. ABC logic doesn't work? I'm sorry? What!? Going by your logic there is no defined strongest character. Which is completely against the manga fact that Whitebeard at the time of his death was the strongest and greatest pirate. Much like how Roger was said to be the greatest pirate. Going against manga fact gets you anywhere but forwards.
It's funny how you said your going by manga facts whereas i'm just making stuff up yet i haven't seen you post anything that actually supports these assumptions your making. A>B>C logic doesn't work but that doesn't in no way mean there isn't a strongest character.
My point: Your point is pure retardation due to a lack of reading comprehension.
That's not always the case. Moving around a lot can make a fight a high difficulty battle regardless of injuries. What truly defines a fights difficulty is the fighting capability of the victor after a battle. Because of Laws DF and its stamina consumption it's clear that because he used the Ope Ope no Mi for an extensive period of time that his ability to fight later would be hindered, making it a high difficulty battle.
Not really. As you can see after the fight Law was in no way weakened and didn't even pant. Considering that his DF depletes his stamina and the fact that his room is always on proves that his stamina is impressive and looking at the fight the use of his DF didn't even take a toll at him. He moved alot during the fight but still left it without showing any type of exhaustion. Not to mention Smoker's little grab fest was right after Smoker randomly hopped in and blocked Law's slash that was intended to Tashigi. Leaving Law surprised.
Law was not dominating. Law seemed to be trying pretty hard in his fight with Smoker.
Pinning Law down was still more than Law had done in that fight until the conclusion. Law faced difficulty as you can see by the grimace on his face within your provided scans.
If your basing it on facial expression now you should know that Smoker had a serious expression on the whole fight and that "grimace" Law had Smoker also had it plenty of times. During the fight Law mostly wore a cocky smile. Law did actually do something to Smoker.
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Also, so because Smoker pinned Law down yet failed to hit him Law's victory was a high-diff victory? Lol
Law getting a surprise choke isn't enough to declare that fight a High-diff victory. Not even close.
Fatigue is a form of damage. Damage is anything that can hinder ones ability to fight. This can be mental or physical and dealt by anyone given the ability to do so.
Funny. Law's DF takes away his stamina but the fight didn't even last long enough for Law to get exhausted or show any signs of fatigue.
wiki of any kind can be edited by anyone. For all we know the page you read through could have been edited by yourself for arguments sakes or even some retarded 10 year old nooby OP fan who knows next to nothing.
Since Whitebeard was praised for tying with Roger it's kind of obvious that this was seen as a great achievement as Roger was most likely stronger. If they were equal it would have been expected to have many ties and just as many victories as he had defeats.
Whitebeard was praised for being able tomatch Roger in strength. Your making assumptions which are not facts obviously. What's there to say that Roger and WB never managed to beat each other? Your just bending the manga.
Smoker is most likely above Sanji. Your point? And Smoker shares too many similarities to not be "Garp".
Facepalm @ bold. It's like this isn't a Sanji vs Smoker. I never said Smoker isn't "Garp". But even if he is "Garp" that's not enough to automatically go "lolz yeah since Smoker is the same as Monkey D. Garp he's above Sanji...Hurrdurr"
Garp>Rayleigh on what basis? That "idiot" completely fodderized you in this debate , I don't even need to make an effort. So what does that make you?
Mind giving a proper argument on how Smoker plans on beating Sanji? I'm done with these ridiculous speculations about Roger, WB, Garp and soon enough Rayleigh (pretty sure somebody got heartbroken when i said Garp>Rayleigh). It's getting us nowhere. What has Smoker exactly shown that puts him above Sanji?
Personally, i hate debating because it requires me to respond to peoples every reply and write walls of text when i could be doing something else (yes, i'm lazy....so?). But i'd rather skip this ridiculous assumption game and get to the point so i can get this over with quickly and continue on.
Sanji wins this.
Sanji can use haki so smoker converting into smoke isn't going to help him. Also sanji's fire based attacks give a big advantage to him just like how ace got an advantage on smoker.
Sanji wins this.
Sanji can use haki so smoker converting into smoke isn't going to help him. Also sanji's fire based attacks give a big advantage to him just like how ace got an advantage on smoker.
Logic = fail. So basically you only considered the fact that Smoker can turn into smoke and completely ignored all of his combat abilities!? Hardly a fair judgement. Smoker would gain an advantage from fire based attacks (which is why he could tie with Ace) as smoke stems from the oxidisation of any material (basically fire and fumes etc.) which would basically enhance the amount of smoke he can create, extending his range and knowing Logia properties (Weaknesses without Haki can hit a Logia. Same for superior Logias. ) Sanji wouldn't be able to hit Smoker very efficiently with Diable Jambe or Hells Memories.
Read the last reply before you start reading this.
Alright then. Lets say Smoker almost killed Luffy once. Luffy still hasn't "almost killed" Smoker. Also, Luffy wasn't driven to near death. Not even close.
This doesn't really matter since there's something called the future.
It's funny how you said your going by manga facts whereas i'm just making stuff up yet i haven't seen you post anything that actually supports these assumptions your making. A>B>C logic doesn't work but that doesn't in no way mean there isn't a strongest character.
I don't need to post evidence because I'm pointing out what you should already know. ABC logic works in One Piece. The only times it does not work is in a fight between Logia users without using Haki e.g. Fire normally > Smoke yet Ace and Smoker tied. There are no other fights in One Piece so far where A>B>C didn't apply.
Not really. As you can see after the fight Law was in no way weakened and didn't even pant. Considering that his DF depletes his stamina and the fact that his room is always on proves that his stamina is impressive and looking at the fight the use of his DF didn't even take a toll at him. He moved alot during the fight but still left it without showing any type of exhaustion. Not to mention Smoker's little grab fest was right after Smoker randomly hopped in and blocked Law's slash that was intended to Tashigi. Leaving Law surprised.
This point is irrelevant as you can hide signs of fatigue. You can't argue against this point because there is nothing for you to use to prove Law doesn't experience fatigue when using his devil fruit. He can warp in his room. His "moving a lot" consisted of more warps than running and dodging etc. Law wasn't surprised.
Do you take everything so literally? It's what you've been implying by completely underrating and underestimating Smoker.
If your basing it on facial expression now you should know that Smoker had a serious expression on the whole fight and that "grimace" Law had Smoker also had it plenty of times. During the fight Law mostly wore a cocky smile. Law did actually do something to Smoker.
The only time Law hasn't grinned is after Law was fodderized by Doflamingo off panel in similar ways to how Smoker was fodderized by Doflamingo. Law grinned during his introduction. Law grinned when we first saw him fight. Law gave a cocky smile when fighting a Pacifista at one point , but of course the Pacifista was stronger than him. Your point? Even in that panel you can see Law momentarily has a serious face. You completely ignored that.
Also, so because Smoker pinned Law down yet failed to hit him Law's victory was a high-diff victory? Lol
Whitebeard was praised for being able tomatch Roger in strength. Your making assumptions which are not facts obviously. What's there to say that Roger and WB never managed to beat each other? Your just bending the manga.
By analyzing the context and situation in which it was said it was said as if it was his greatest achievement. There's nothing to say they didn't defeat eachother but there's nothing to prove you correct. I can only prove this to those who are decent with analysis skills and reader comprehension. Both of which you lack.
Facepalm @ bold. It's like this isn't a Sanji vs Smoker. I never said Smoker isn't "Garp". But even if he is "Garp" that's not enough to automatically go "lolz yeah since Smoker is the same as Monkey D. Garp he's above Sanji...Hurrdurr"
I'm not saying he is equal to Luffy. Because Garp wasn't equal to Roger. You might think so but I don't so this point is entirely irrelevant.
Mind giving a proper argument on how Smoker plans on beating Sanji? I'm done with these ridiculous speculations about Roger, WB, Garp and soon enough Rayleigh (pretty sure somebody got heartbroken when i said Garp>Rayleigh). It's getting us nowhere. What has Smoker exactly shown that puts him above Sanji?
You're only done with these "ridiculous (logical)" Speculations because they disagree with your "logical (ridiculous)" speculations. Am I right?
The very fact Smoker has the Moku Moku no Mi places him above Sanji unless Sanji has strong techniques not involving flames. Smoker would gain an advantage from fire based attacks (which is why he could tie with Ace) as smoke stems from the oxidisation of any material (basically fire and fumes etc.) which would basically enhance the amount of smoke he can create, extending his range and knowing Logia properties (Weaknesses without Haki can hit a Logia. Same for superior Logias. ) Sanji wouldn't be able to hit Smoker very efficiently with Diable Jambe or Hells Memories. So basically the fight is either full power Sanji vs a powered up Smoker or mehh Sanji vs Full power Smoker. Sanji (if he goes all out) would increase Smokers devil fruit powers etc.
Personally, i hate debating because it requires me to respond to peoples every reply and write walls of text when i could be doing something else (yes, i'm lazy....so?). But i'd rather skip this ridiculous assumption game and get to the point so i can get this over with quickly and continue on.
Sanji wins this.
Sanji can use haki so smoker converting into smoke isn't going to help him. Also sanji's fire based attacks give a big advantage to him just like how ace got an advantage on smoker.
Just because someone has Haki it doesn't guarantee them a win against a Logia user. Smoker's combat abilities are better than Sanji's.
Also fire is not good on Smoker at all...are you saying even with the advantage Ace was only able to tie with Pre-timeskip Smoker. Smoker is the one that has an advantage over fire.
Logic = fail. So basically you only considered the fact that Smoker can turn into smoke and completely ignored all of his combat abilities!? Hardly a fair judgement. Smoker would gain an advantage from fire based attacks (which is why he could tie with Ace) as smoke stems from the oxidisation of any material (basically fire and fumes etc.) which would basically enhance the amount of smoke he can create, extending his range and knowing Logia properties (Weaknesses without Haki can hit a Logia. Same for superior Logias. ) Sanji wouldn't be able to hit Smoker very efficiently with Diable Jambe or Hells Memories.
Most of smoker's combat abilities revolve around his smoke.Since sanji can use haki, he just have to hit that smoke to hit smoker. By converting into smoke , smoker is basically increase his surface area which will ultimately help sanji.
I would have agreed with your logic regarding smoke and fire but this is one piece and in this case, fire > smoke.
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^ here ace clearly states fire > smoke .
Whats surprising is the fact that you think someone like smoker could ever tie with ace. (and this was smoker of alabasta arc who fought ace)
So what sanji have is haki+fire attacks against smoker which gives him a good advantage.
Just because someone has Haki it doesn't guarantee them a win against a Logia user. Smoker's combat abilities are better than Sanji's.
Also fire is not good on Smoker at all...are you saying even with the advantage Ace was only able to tie with Pre-timeskip Smoker. Smoker is the one that has an advantage over fire.
Wrong. Haki is enough to beat logia user.
Rayleigh is the best example, he is a strong guy and can beat any number of logia users with haki alone. Haki is all you need.
Another good example will be garp and pretty much any strong non-DF haki user.
Most of smoker's combat abilities revolve around his smoke.Since sanji can use haki, he just have to hit that smoke to hit smoker. By converting into smoke , smoker is basically increase his surface area which will ultimately help sanji.
No they don't, Smoker is a Vice Admiral for a reason he has a range of fighting styles not to mention he has a jitte he uses, also there's the fact Smoker has took hits from Vergo who's haki is far greater than Sanji's so just because Sanji has Haki it doesn't mean he can automatically beat Smoker.
I would have agreed with your logic regarding smoke and fire but this is one piece and in this case, fire > smoke.
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^ here ace clearly states fire > smoke .
Whats surprising is the fact that you think someone like smoker could ever tie with ace. (and this was smoker of alabasta arc who fought ace)
So what sanji have is haki+fire attacks against smoker which gives him a good advantage.
Well in Ace and Smoker could not defeat each other in a fight...so what does that say and by the way I never once thought Ace would lose to Smoker...however going by the manga Ace with the advantage over Smoker couldn't defeat him...Now don't get me wrong I think Ace is stronger yet...you know.
Wrong. Haki is enough to beat logia user.
Rayleigh is the best example, he is a strong guy and can beat any number of logia users with haki alone. Haki is all you need.
Another good example will be garp and pretty much any strong non-DF haki user.
Oh so once someone gains Haki that means they automatically defeat someone with a Devil Fruit right? That's possibly the most insane thing I have ever read. Tashigi could not defeat Monet and she has Haki, Marco and Vista could not beat Akainu and they had Haki...you see where I'm going with this.
Your Logic is based on the fact that because someone has Haki they can automatically beat anyone with a Devil fruit, yet you forget Smoker also has Haki.
Then look at it like this Vergo was fighting Sanji with just his legs and was tying with him and Vergo wasn't even using the advanced version of haki (Where the body parts turn black) on Sanji and Sanji's bones where breaking apart fighting Vergo. Sanji has not shown enough Haki feats to be put above Smoker and I doubt he ever will since Smoker's rival is Luffy in the Strawhats, not Sanji.
Most of smoker's combat abilities revolve around his smoke.Since sanji can use haki, he just have to hit that smoke to hit smoker. By converting into smoke , smoker is basically increase his surface area which will ultimately help sanji.
Smoker intentionally increased his surface area in order to obscure Laws movements from Vergo. This was an attempt to get Laws heart back rather than to directly fight Vergo. Besides most of his techniques are him extending his limbs with Smoke. Which technically doesn't increase the surface area by much. He can also disperse his element. And he has been shown to use Haki which means he isn't reliant on his fruit any more.
I would have agreed with your logic regarding smoke and fire but this is one piece and in this case, fire > smoke.
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^ here ace clearly states fire > smoke .
Whats surprising is the fact that you think someone like smoker could ever tie with ace. (and this was smoker of alabasta arc who fought ace)
So what sanji have is haki+fire attacks against smoker which gives him a good advantage.
Let me just ask... Off of what basis did Ace make such a statement? I believe it was destructive capacity and overall power, of course Fire>Smoke, but if Fire vs's Smoke : Smokes power increases to minimally draw level with Fire.
So Luffy can now beat Sakazuki? Which fanfic have you been reading? Haki only allows you to hit a Logia. It doesn't mean that a Haki user gets an insta-win.
Rayleigh is the best example, he is a strong guy and can beat any number of logia users with haki alone. Haki is all you need.
Another good example will be garp and pretty much any strong non-DF haki user.
Rayleighs Haki is top tier, compare that to Luffys etc. and it will roflstomp Luffys Haki or anyone around his tier. Simply having Haki isn't enough. It has to be strong enough and you have to be strong enough to defeat the Logia user in the first place (please consider all Logia users we have seen except from two has shown some form of Haki)
Fire > Smoke. Sanji the most manly cook to every kick ass and steal hearts would win because we saw what Smoker did against Ace, or could do, which was nothing. Hells memories or Diablo Jamble takes this problem away with a little haki.
Some people are underestimating my man Sanji, he will lose but it will be a extreme diff IMO. He is incredible fast, agile and his kicks are crazy powerfull.
