Sage Kabuto vs. Gokage

Rainbow Dash

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Tsunade only seemed relevant because Madara wasn't trying. A fully bloodlusted Kabuto > non serious Madara. She won't be as relevant in this fight as she was against a relaxed Madara who was constantly fanboying Hashirama.

Anyhow, Mei Tsunade and Oonoki get blitzed. A and Gaara are the only ones with reactions good enough for Kabuto.
 

TheEvilOne

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You never attempt to put any argument in my threads >_>

Tsunade and Onoki gets raped.

Kabuto can be phyically superior then Tsuande to begin with. Onoki gets a guided arrow to the chest.

Usually I don't have time for a serious a debate ^

@bold
Care to explain how?
@underlined
Not if he has full intel. He could create some Iwa Bunshins for distraction until he and Tsunade makes a super jinton. The charge time of this jinton takes only a single manga page [ ] If Kabuto has no intel, how can he protect himself from this?
 

Brother Numpsay

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Usually I don't have time for a serious a debate ^

@bold
Care to explain how?


Ill break it down in one of Kabuto's Exploit:

Sennin Mōdo Kabuto's Strenght and Immunity Analysis.​

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I have seen some comments in the base that only Toad Senjutsu shows "more evidence" that Strength boost is exclusive, but the fact is the Manga never implied that Sennin Mōdos have different Boost feats. During Naruto's training Fukasaku never excluded such a thing as he always implied natural energy in general, when speaking to Naruto. The only difference here is of course, the characteristics of entering this Mode. So the fact when you look at Naruto's training, this is what you can imply to what natural energy was able to do for Kabuto.

An example would be when Base Naruto had no such strength feat to lift up Giant boulders [ ] but as soon has he gathered natural energy he was able to perform this strength feat. [ ] This implies that natural energy is what enables the character to get such a feat.

As soon as Naruto mastered natural energy, he was able to block a Summoning monster's attack [ ] and even use his strength to throw one. [ ] Naruto also used natural energy to even pick up and slam the Kyūbi himself. [ ]

Kabuto has mastered Sennin Mōdo and Natural Energy so this applies to anyone who has mastered these this.

"The Addition"

Since Kabuto has access to Jirōbō's DNA he can also enable his strength, as long as he is exposed/present. Jirōbō's State 2 enabled him to have the strength to even lift up Chouji's Chō Baika no Jutsu. [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] Depending on how much weight you think Chouji has, he is basically Summoning level of weight capacity.

Kabuto even noted that using the Curse Seal shouldn't be compared to a master of the art of a Sage. [ ] So having Jirōbō's DNA gatherdc with Sage Boost makes it a done deal that his strength makes him the most, physically strongest character in the series. Also, any physical contact with Jirōbō can even do this: [ ] Subjugating their opponet allows him to absorb chakra, much like the Sound ninja, Yoroi. [ ]

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@underlined
Not if he has full intel. He could create some Iwa Bunshins for distraction until he and Tsunade makes a super jinton. The charge time of this jinton takes only a single manga page [ ] If Kabuto has no intel, how can he protect himself from this?

First OP said Manga intel so don't go off topic but Ill answer it once.

Kabuto doesn't need intel to dodge a jutsu. Kabuto can simply make Jirobo's short earthquake[ ]<--The range will be bigger and works better with Senjutsu and break the concentration, much like Onoki's partner did here[ ].
 

TheEvilOne

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Tsunade only seemed relevant because Madara wasn't trying. A fully bloodlusted Kabuto > non serious Madara. She won't be as relevant in this fight as she was against a relaxed Madara who was constantly fanboying Hashirama.

Anyhow, Mei Tsunade and Oonoki get blitzed. A and Gaara are the only ones with reactions good enough for Kabuto.

Wasn't trying? Rolf. He went all out, he was even force to use the PS.

- meteors [ ]
Onoki and Gaara were so weakened that they almost died. Who saved their asses? Tsunade.
- Mokuton: Jukai Koutami [ ]
- Yasaka Magatama [ ]
It is safe to assume he had no intel on Gaara's ultimate defense and on Onoki's rock golem. This means he wanted to kill the Kages with this attack
- Mokuton: Kourin Kajukai [ ]
- Flower Tree World [ ]
-Susanoo to knock them down [ ]
-Katon: Kouka Messhitsu to roast them alive [ ]
- Acknowledged Onoki's endurance [ ]
- Stated he is going to KILL Tsunade ( not toy, not troll, KILL. Got it? ) [ ]
- Acknowledged Tsunade's strength [ ] [ ]
- Stabbed Tsunade with a Susanoo sword [ ]
he had no intel on her healing abilities = he meant to kill Tsunade
- Attacked Tsunade with 3 Yasaka Magatama [ ]
he still had no intel on her regeneration ability !
- Admitted Tsunade's self healing ability is on pair with Hashirama's [ ]
- Admitted he wanted to lower the Gokage's determination [ ]
- Admitted he was forced to use the Mokuton Bunshin [ ]
- Created 25 Mokuton Bunshins with nearly Bijuu sized Susanoo to overwhelm the Gokage [ ]
- He was about to kill Mei and Gaara ( not troll, not play, KILL. ) [ ] [ ]
- He trapped Ay in a genjutsu and he was about to kill him [ ] [ ]
- He admitted he has to break Onoki's willpower [ ]
- Acknowledged to power of the Gokage [ ]
- Activated the PS to defeat them [ ]

So yeah, he was just playing all the time ;)
 

Nattana

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Kabuto takes this mid diff.
Low diff if he goes all serious right from the start.
 

Rainbow Dash

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-snip-

Activated the PS to defeat them



Madara did not use his PS to beat the Gokage.

Everything else you said was undermined by the fact that Madara says that his Perfect Susanoo is his full power. I'm sure you can understand that context, Madara was using his playground jutsu the entire fight. Come on, the guy just laid back and let his clones tire the kages.
 

TheEvilOne

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Madara did not use his PS to beat the Gokage.

Everything else you said was undermined by the fact that Madara says that his Perfect Susanoo is his full power. I'm sure you can understand that context, Madara was using his playground jutsu the entire fight. Come on, the guy just laid back and let his clones tire the kages.

The ViZ translation says Madara activated the PS once again to beat them. I'll search it for you.
 

TheEvilOne

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Did you read my post?

And where do you find viz scans?

Once I asked someone in this .
Later Tazzilla searched and posted the respective scan

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Yeah, I read it... I changed my mind, Onoki and Tsu would without a doubt lose, but I can still see the Gokage winning it with med diff.
 

Brother Numpsay

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Once I asked someone in this .
Later Tazzilla searched and posted the respective scan


What page share a link to find Viz? It brings me to the first page

Yeah, I read it... I changed my mind, Onoki and Tsu would without a doubt lose, but I can still see the Gokage winning it with med diff.

Well then sit back and watch me take out any argument people have for the Gokage, to convince you more :cool:
 

TheEvilOne

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What page share a link to find Viz? It brings me to the first page



Well then sit back and watch me take out any argument people have for the Gokage, to convince you more :cool:

o_O can't find the page right now.
But anyways, the scan I posted is from the original translation.

Okay ;)
 

Bieber

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Kabuto wins both scenarios.
- Scenario 1: low-med diff.
- Scenario 2: med diff, possibly high, but I really doubt it.
 

AGoodBoy

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Gokage slaughter 11/10 times.

Gaara + any other gokage is all that's needed.
 

warlee

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Ay blitz and paralyze kabuto with his lightening, while onoiki finish off with his molecular attack. GG.
 

Rainbow Dash

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"But..." That statement is no different than the other translations, he is just saying that it would be a disgrace to use it again.

You ever saw how the Gokage were defeated .

They were not left with damages that they would have received from the Perfect Susanoo. And well, the next page shows that Madara beat a love powered Tsunade with nothing but a tree trunk.
 

TheEvilOne

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"But..." That statement is no different than the other translations, he is just saying that it would be a disgrace to use it again.

You ever saw how the Gokage were defeated .

They were not left with damages that they would have received from the Perfect Susanoo. And well, the next page shows that Madara beat a love powered Tsunade with nothing but a tree trunk.


'I'm almost embarrassed to have to do this again' =/= 'it would be a disgrace to use it again '

@bold

Look closely, the tree isn't even touching Tsunade's body. Not to mention I can't imagine a scenario where Tsunade can't destroy a branch like that using only a finger.

Well we haven't seen the end of the battle, so I'm not saying you are wrong about the PS Susanoo. But still, the Gokage wasn't stomped and Madara wasn't trolling all the time when he himself admitted he has to break their willpower to defeat them...
 

Brother Numpsay

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pimp slapping the hell out of Kabuto isn't letting me down. :)

Kabuto pimp slaps all of them.

-Phyiscaly stronger then Tsunade
-Mei is useless here, so he can take his time with her.
-Ay loses at the end with the advantage of his perceptional ability.
-Gaara cannot do anything but temporal protection, which in the end gets Muki Tensei
-Onoki having Jiton, is the only thing working here, Kabuto knows that and kills him first

Gokage takes this

State at least small reason why they win..

Ay blitz and paralyze kabuto with his lightening, while onoiki finish off with his molecular attack. GG.

Lmao first of all Ay is not blitzing SM senses, who has a defense from the back of his head also. And who has a body much stronger then his. Madara precog was enough to block his punch in time, Kabuto having better precision blocks his punch with his superior strength. Kabuto and slam him around for doing such a bad attempt to do such a thing. Or use his Chakra Scalpel that is powered by Senjutsu:

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[/CENTER]

I'll make this quick. I'll be establishing why Chakra Scalpel is on another level with Senjutsu. First is to understand Chakura no Mesu and how it works:


This medical technique forms one's chakra into a small, sharp blade. This can then be used for highly accurate incisions necessary for surgeries and anatomical dissections. Unlike regular scalpels, the chakra scalpel can make cuts inside the body without actually creating an open wound, limiting the risks of an infection.


Bold and underline is the most important factor here. This jutsu is able to attack internally and simply ignoring the external layer of the skin.

Now this quote is Part 1 Kabuto's skill with it:


Because of this requirement, using the chakra scalpel offensively is highly unusual. In heated combat, even the greatest medical-nin won't be able to exert the precision needed to make fatal cuts, but it can still effectively cut muscle tissues and tendons, rendering the target immobile.

But as we seen in Part 2, Base Kabuto had improved to the point that it can become pure chakra blades, that are easily able to cut flesh [ ] and even Mokuton. [ ][ ] This concludes that with Senjutsu it goes beyond than the cutting feats it has shown in Base Form. And with the ability to damage internally, it can even bypass some Chakra Shroud/Shield!


Close Quarters Combat:​


Lets read Fukasaku's comment when learning to use Natural Energy again. [ ] The keyword is Hand-to-Hand skills here. Using the force of Nature enables him to boost his fighting style, much like Naruto did here. [ ] Now since Kabuto's fighting style is completely different, the effects will be much different. Kabuto uses Chakura no Mesu for CQC so instead of a blunt force applying for the attack like Naruto, the effect will be cutting damage, externally and internally.

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As for his body being conductible read up on his Fluids first:

"Immunity"​

This exploit will focus on and breaking down Kabuto's invulnerability.​

Invulnerability: Incapable of being wounded, injured, or harmed.

The most important factor regarding this is to break down his ability through Karin, Suigetsu, and Sakon/Ukon.

Karin​
-Karin has a remarkably powerful life force. This grants her immense potential longevity as well as equally strong vitality. As noted by Kabuto, Karin also possesses a unique healing ability which seemingly stems from this powerful life-force.[ ][ ]. Her regeneration has surpasses Tsunade's. The reason I say this is because Tsunade requires a seal from her forehead to active her jutsu, to regenerate. Karin strictly uses her life force in order to get the healing done the same way, no jutsu or seal required. Her regeneration simply can put Tsunade's body back together [ ](Not saying that Tsunade can do that at full power but simply making a point). Karin's life force shown here replenish Tsuades chakra, , , and brought her back to health.

This is what Kabuto now has in his possession.



Suigetsu

I cross out his name for a reason. Kabuto simply alternated his own version of he. Crossing out his name was basically signifying the difference between Suigetsu's from Kabuto:

My previous mention something about "fluids" and I was talking about "Suika no Jutsu". DO NOT CALL Kabuto's fluids "Suika no Jutsu". Lets read the context again [ ]. Kabuto said its ability to transform the body "INTO A LIQUID FORM". It was never stated what liquid form Kabuto uses. To understand the context as a whole, read what Kabuto said right after. "I use MY BODY FLUID <--- To perform it". Which means its something else. For all we known this liquid is unconductible, since not every liquid is conductible. For all we know the fluids can handle Amatersu heat. The next panel says, Kabuto researched and ALTERNATE his own version. Now to conclude this part is distinguishing "WATER" to Kabuto's "FLUIDS" the last context of Kabuto's source. "Dont you know him, too? it's Sugetsu. He (Sugetsu)<----- can transform into water...." That said Kabuto's Fuilds can work better then the houzuki clan, even countering it's weak points.



First there is a reason why Kabuto mention doing research and alternation from the liquid/hydrification. Kabuto knew the pros and the cons with Suika no Jutsu. This is why he had alternate it. The manga never said what kind of liquid form Kabuto uses (Although by the looks of it, it is very thick and also produces his fluid while keeping its skin state[ ], basically abnormal) , BUT by context he had to alter the jutsu to FIX the CONS. Well? What are the Cons for Suika No Jutsu? Lightening Release, and always needing water to drank, to keep themselves hydrated. These weaknesses do not apply to Kabuto at all. If you were to look at the scan where Kabuto was explaining his body shed version we know that the context also applied that the alternation is much better then the snake skin shed. That means that anything that snake skin shed, either can do the same or much better then normal shedding. An example would be Manda tanking Katon+Oil by simply shedding his skin to counter the effects. [ ]. Kabuto simply made sure to have this Liquid he altered to counter electricity and also enabling him to face off heating capacity.

To top it all off, some people claim that Kabuto using it doesn't work automatically. But in context Kabuto could also use this Jutsu at WILL[ ]. This example shows that he simply liquify his insides while keeping his external layer the same. Or when Kabuto's snake got his head chopped off and started converting into a liquid state [ ].

Now what can we say about Both his Regeneration and this Fluid Jutsu? Well I will quote one of the memeber of this Group here, that explains this very well.
(Keep in mind that his context thought that Kabuto uses water for hydrification. Simply replace the context for "water" to what I already explained and it still fits the context)

Suigetsu's ability can also enhance Kabuto's regenerative capacity. The basis of regeneration is the rate at which the cells of the person an divide. Basically, Kabuto, Tsunade etc. regenerate at a cellular rate. A human body can consist of 3.72e13 cells. By utilizing Suigetsu's ability, he becomes solely water. By becoming water, his entire body can become solely molecules. Which a human body weighing about 65kg(Kabuto's weight) can contain up to 6.5e27 atoms. Which means that by using water transformation, he regenerates at a molecular rate, rather than only at a celluar rate. In other words, the capacity and rate at which Kabuto can regenerate is doubled when he uses water transformation.

(Thank Zaru for shedding some light here)​




Gokage slaughter 11/10 times.

Gaara + any other gokage is all that's needed.

Come on dude, you know the drill. Come with an argument. Since you point up one point, I will put up one point.

You said Gaara is all needed? Sorry to break it to you but Sand = get Muki Tensei, so that throws your whole argument here out the window.
 
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miromiro

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Gokage win this. Quite easily actually.
 
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