Kage Matchups Tobirama > Mei

[Optimistic]

NarutoIndra solos.

ot: Mei wins Tobirama is overrated he's not even top 15-20.

 

[Bieber]

Wut? Are you saying the hidden mist jutsu endlessly spreads? Are you saying that Tobirama can survive the first few second of extreme pH levels? All these would make you seem fallacious if you were to believe them.

Moreover, Lava would take out any eco with ease, unless they had Gakido or Susano to counter. Assuming Tobirama's Edo's are weaker then Oro's, it is safe to assume they will lose against lava like other edo's would lose to amateratsu. Tobirama cannot win, simple as that. Her lava and her Futton: Kōmu no Jutsu would end this mid diff. Marks are useless since she can simply use high speed lava projectiles to cover them.

What i'm saying is she won't be able to use the mist to it's best advantage because it's best used in an enclosed area or in short range. It does spread throughout the field, but slowly.

Lava isn't taking out his Edos; Tobirama can either tag them or use Gojou Kibakufuda to deal with it after it cools. Plus her lava is able to be dodged with ease, depending on the size, so the edo can move out the way. Not only that, but Mei will be dealing with one or more edo and Tobirama, who can use kage bunshin. Lava isn't stopping Tobirama from teleporting to an area. Tobirama has a radius around the tag that he is also able to teleport to. Not only that, but how is exactly will Mei know were all of his tags are?

 

[Touken]

No it doesn't. For one, she won't watch him summon his edo and then proceed to do Gojou Kibakufadu. Second of all, she ends the fight before he does it anyways (not that he will summon eco at the beginning of the match anyways).

And why wouldn't he? He's not going to play it easy while going up against a Mizukage.

Probably because his Susano needed time to begin decomposing? What does amateratsu have to do with anything? She has already shown her Futton is highly acidic. She can adjust the pH levels, meaning she could make it even more acidic by increasing the concentration of dissolved substances in the acid. This easily kills off anyone without a shielding around them. An unguarded shinobi will have his eyes melted within a matter of milliseconds against such a low pH, since enzymes easily catalyse the eyes and any proteins. Conclusion, Tobirama melts all together. He can FTG away, but that mark is covered by lava now isn't it?

It isn't instant and it's been shown to be short range. A range Tobirama can easily escape via Shunshin and whatever acid burns is inflicted (if any), Tobirama can submerge himself with Suiton to effectively counteract and dilute the concentration of the acid. Also, he'd employ the use of shadow clones to gauge the opponent's power so there's a high chance he'll be caught in an acid/alkaline mist.

You didn't comprehend what I was implying. I meant she directly puts the lava on the FTG Mark, so that once he FTG's to it, he is already being affected by the Lava's harmful effects. She has already shown she can fire decently sized blobs at high speed [x].I never claimed it would be destroyed, it simply would prevent Tobirama from teleporting to it. The radius isn't great. Saying he fully avoid the lava blobs radius is absurd. We don't know the extent of the FTG radius anyways.

Misinterpreted, sorry.

She can't see the FTG marks. He's been shown to seamlessly spread marks around the battlefield without anyone noticing. Mei isn't a sensor nor a Sharingan/Byakugan/Rinnegan wielder. There's no way she'll be able to see the seals.

 

[NarutoIndra]

And why wouldn't he? He's not going to play it easy while going up against a Mizukage.

Edo's take time to summon. Enough time for Mei to kill him. She won't watch him summon the Edo's. Lava is enough to take him out incase he wants to summon edo's.

It isn't instant and it's been shown to be short range. A range Tobirama can easily escape via Shunshin and whatever acid burns is inflicted (if any), Tobirama can submerge himself with Suiton to effectively counteract and dilute the concentration of the acid. Also, he'd employ the use of shadow clones to gauge the opponent's power so there's a high chance he'll be caught in an acid/alkaline mist.

First of all, she can blow it in his face like she did to Zetsu, but since he is human, he would die or at least completely have his eyesight deteriorated. Even if she uses it, this area has shown not to spread much in the manga. Low concentrations are enough to catalyse the eyes, so he can lose his eyesight even if he believes he's out of the range. He can't enter back into tha range either, due to the risk it poses. Bad choice you just made their. Acid usually has higher density than water so it will go behind the water, and eventually touch Tobirama. If you touch present acid with water, a vigorous hot reaction will occur which will be in disadvantage of Tobirama since Mei has shown high temperature and high pH tolerance. Acid is only effectively diluted when the acid is added to the water, not vice versa. No idea what you just said in your last sentence, since gauge cannot be used in such context, unless you are tying to say measure. And measure in that context doesn't make sense unless you want him to be caught in the acid? Or whatever you tried to say. never the less, shadow clones die to boil Futton as well.

Misinterpreted, sorry.

She can't see the FTG marks. He's been shown to seamlessly spread marks around the battlefield without anyone noticing. Mei isn't a sensor nor a Sharingan/Byakugan/Rinnegan wielder. There's no way she'll be able to see the seals.

She can see him mark the area, however. He is not Minato, who can consecutively teleport non stop to Kunai's. He has only shown to teleport to areas he himself has marked. It is quite obvious in a 1v1 that if Tobirama bends down on the floor and leaves a mark like this [

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] he is up to something. I am not saying she is instantly spreading her lava on them, but if she sees him teleport to it, she would know what is occurring. She has already shown good jutsu knowledge when she instantly spotted the pollen from Madara. Furthhermore, saying Tobirama will instantly shunshin away from her acid as if he had into on it but Mei not knowing anything about FTG or ever realising is rather biased. The seals are visible, it;s simply easier for a dojutsu user to spot them.

You still haven't come up with a counter to her quick lava projectiles, nor her large scale lava used on Madara.

 

[Touken]

Edo's take time to summon. Enough time for Mei to kill him. She won't watch him summon the Edo's. Lava is enough to take him out incase he wants to summon edo's.

And how on Earth is she going to take him out when he's going to use the coffins as barriers? Once they're summoned, she can't put them down. They'll keep on regenerating and her chakra levels will start to deplete each time she attempts to take them down.

First of all, she can blow it in his face like she did to Zetsu, but since he is human, he would die or at least completely have his eyesight deteriorated. Even if she uses it, this area has shown not to spread much in the manga. Low concentrations are enough to catalyse the eyes, so he can lose his eyesight even if he believes he's out of the range. He can't enter back into tha range either, due to the risk it poses. Bad choice you just made their. Acid usually has higher density than water so it will go behind the water, and eventually touch Tobirama. If you touch present acid with water, a vigorous hot reaction will occur which will be in disadvantage of Tobirama since Mei has shown high temperature and high pH tolerance. Acid is only effectively diluted when the acid is added to the water, not vice versa. No idea what you just said in your last sentence, since gauge cannot be used in such context, unless you are tying to say measure. And measure in that context doesn't make sense unless you want him to be caught in the acid? Or whatever you tried to say. never the less, shadow clones die to boil Futton as well.

This acid is gaseous. It is in no way denser than water. And he's not using Suiton on the goddamn air, he'll be using it on himself to counteract the burns once he's gotten away from the mist. He isn't going to lose his eyesight when he's completely out of the mist's range. That makes no sense. Also, he's not going to lose his eyesight on impact. The acid mist has to first penetrate the tissues in his eyes to affect his cornea, something that isn't possible with an acid mist because it's a mist. The worst possible outcome is Tobirama developing cancer due to inhaling it because acid mists are carcinogenic and yet this didn't happen to Sasuke; Kishi hasn't gone this deep into this area of science so there's no point you bringing this up.

Gauge is practically synonymous with measure. Gauge definition:
'an instrument for measure or testing.'

What I said: 'Also, he'd employ the use of shadow clones to gauge the opponent's power'

I'm not sure how you're having a problem here. It does make sense considering I said he'll be using shadow clones, not himself. Once he's seen the shadow clones die, he'll know to stay away from the mist.

She can see him mark the area, however. He is not Minato, who can consecutively teleport non stop to Kunai's. He has only shown to teleport to areas he himself has marked. It is quite obvious in a 1v1 that if Tobirama bends down on the floor and leaves a mark like this [x] he is up to something. I am not saying she is instantly spreading her lava on them, but if she sees him teleport to it, she would know what is occurring. She has already shown good jutsu knowledge when she instantly spotted the pollen from Madara. Furthhermore, saying Tobirama will instantly shunshin away from her acid as if he had into on it but Mei not knowing anything about FTG or ever realising is rather biased. The seals are visible, it;s simply easier for a dojutsu user to spot them.

You still haven't come up with a counter to her quick lava projectiles, nor her large scale lava used on Madara.

He isn't going to bend down and place a mark. He's never been shown to do that. He placed a mark on Obito without him realizing. Minato has done the same. They've both been shown to place marks on the battlefield without anyone noticing. If she spreads lava on those seals then Tobirama can easily make more by using his shadow clones to spread out seals. Furthermore, I don't think she'll get the chance to do that since she's going to be constantly under pressure by Tobirama's Suiton, his shadow clones and summoned Edo Tensei ninja.

The mist will be visible Tobirama. You're low balling his intelligence here and in fact, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that a mist produced by your enemy will be lethal. Also, I've already said he'll first be using shadow clones. The seals are only visible to those who are really close to the seals. She isn't going to be concentrating on where they are while she's fighting Tobirama.

Lava's countered by Suiton or just dodged using foot speed. Or FTG.

 

[Nattana]

And how on Earth is she going to take him out when he's going to use the coffins as barriers? Once they're summoned, she can't put them down. They'll keep on regenerating and her chakra levels will start to deplete each time she attempts to take them down.

This acid is gaseous. It is in no way denser than water. And he's not using Suiton on the goddamn air, he'll be using it on himself to counteract the burns once he's gotten away from the mist. He isn't going to lose his eyesight when he's completely out of the mist's range. That makes no sense. Also, he's not going to lose his eyesight on impact. The acid mist has to first penetrate the tissues in his eyes to affect his cornea, something that isn't possible with an acid mist because it's a mist. The worst possible outcome is Tobirama developing cancer due to inhaling it because acid mists are carcinogenic and yet this didn't happen to Sasuke; Kishi hasn't gone this deep into this area of science so there's no point you bringing this up.

Gauge is practically synonymous with measure. Gauge definition:
'an instrument for measure or testing.'

What I said: 'Also, he'd employ the use of shadow clones to gauge the opponent's power'

I'm not sure how you're having a problem here. It does make sense considering I said he'll be using shadow clones, not himself. Once he's seen the shadow clones die, he'll know to stay away from the mist.


He isn't going to bend down and place a mark. He's never been shown to do that. He placed a mark on Obito without him realizing. Minato has done the same. They've both been shown to place marks on the battlefield without anyone noticing. If she spreads lava on those seals then Tobirama can easily make more by using his shadow clones to spread out seals. Furthermore, I don't think she'll get the chance to do that since she's going to be constantly under pressure by Tobirama's Suiton, his shadow clones and summoned Edo Tensei ninja.

The mist will be visible Tobirama. You're low balling his intelligence here and in fact, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that a mist produced by your enemy will be lethal. Also, I've already said he'll first be using shadow clones. The seals are only visible to those who are really close to the seals. She isn't going to be concentrating on where they are while she's fighting Tobirama.

Lava's countered by Suiton or just dodged using foot speed. Or FTG.

1. Mei did use her mist outside. Stop assuming and stick to facts.
2. Clones aren't even touching her. They would just poof in contact with the mist.
3. Tobirama's Suiton isn't even close to Mei's Suiton.
4. Concentrated Corrosive Mist Spit ends Tobirama if he comes too close.
5. Youton may not hit him, but it changes the battlefield in Mei's favour.
6. Edo aren't regenerating when hit by Youton. Lava is not something that gets removed from ones body. It sticks and burns through it. That magic paper regenerating Edo's bodies won't even have enough space to do its job.

 

[Touken]

1. Mei did use her mist outside. Stop assuming and stick to facts.
2. Clones aren't even touching her. They would just poof in contact with the mist.
3. Tobirama's Suiton isn't even close to Mei's Suiton.
4. Concentrated Corrosive Mist Spit ends Tobirama if he comes too close.
5. Youton may not hit him, but it changes the battlefield in Mei's favour.
6. Edo aren't regenerating when hit by Youton. Lava is not something that gets removed from ones body. It sticks and burns through it. That magic paper regenerating Edo's bodies won't even have enough space to do its job.

1. What are you talking about? I haven't assumed anything.
2. Yeah, I didn't say they were going to but they'll be used to test Mei's techniques and they can also be used to spread FTG seals around the battlefield.
3. Didn't say it was. Your point?
4. He isn't ever going to come too close to it.
5. And so can Suiton. It can easily be combined with FTG for deadly effects.
6. You countered yourself. It'll 'burn through it'. Once it's burnt through it, the Edo shinobi will then regenerate. Tobirama can also teleport the Edo shinobi, since they are connected to his chakra, to move them out of harm's way so there's little chance of lava hitting them.

 

[Nattana]

1. What are you talking about? I haven't assumed anything.
2. Yeah, I didn't say they were going to but they'll be used to test Mei's techniques and they can also be used to spread FTG seals around the battlefield.
3. Didn't say it was. Your point?
4. He isn't ever going to come too close to it.
5. And so can Suiton. It can easily be combined with FTG for deadly effects.
6. You countered yourself. It'll 'burn through it'. Once it's burnt through it, the Edo shinobi will then regenerate. Tobirama can also teleport the Edo shinobi, since they are connected to his chakra, to move them out of harm's way so there's little chance of lava hitting them.

1. It's you who was talking about mist not burning through him on impact. Moreover, you suggested that he could use Suiton to was the acid. Srsly? Isn't it that one should never add water to acid? Moreover, Mei herself stated that she needed to lower the ph of her mist so it didn't kill her allies during Kage Summit.
2. Yeah, great usage of clones. Wasting chakra on quite chakra-demanding jutsu so that these seals can be easily destroyed by Mei.
3. My point is that you are trying to use Tobirama's Suiton as an offense that would do anything to Mei. She can easily counter his Suiton with hers and overpower it with no problem.
4. He may not be coming, but Mei would. He won't be able to evade CQC all the time. Moreover, he won't be even expecting that Jutsu. Almost instant, no hand seals. One spit and he's done for.
5. Some average Suiton won't cool/counter her Youton, because it's not Real World but NV. Water may be > Fire, but Earth > Water.
6. It burns through and stays on the body. There's no room for edos to regenerate. And about FTGing them. U really believe that Mei would give Tobirama enough time to: summon them, place talismans in them and then use his FTG seals on them? Seriously? If yes, then you are really naive.

 

[Touken]

1. It's you who was talking about mist not burning through him on impact. Moreover, you suggested that he could use Suiton to was the acid. Srsly? Isn't it that one should never add water to acid? Moreover, Mei herself stated that she needed to lower the ph of her mist so it didn't kill her allies during Kage Summit.

- Yeah, seriously. I didn't say he'll be adding water to the acid. I said once he's gotten away from the mist, any burns he's been inflicted with can be submerged in water to decrease the pain. There's also a difference between acid in liquid form and in a gaseous state. She had to do that because her allies were unaware of the mist. They didn't know what was going on between her and Sasuke since she sealed the wall.

2. Yeah, great usage of clones. Wasting chakra on quite chakra-demanding jutsu so that these seals can be easily destroyed by Mei.

- It's what clones were meant to be designed for. He's a Senju, he's fought for a full day against the Uchiha so using chakra-demanding jutsu aren't going to be a problem for him. And I didn't say he'd be using hundreds of shadow clones.

3. My point is that you are trying to use Tobirama's Suiton as an offense that would do anything to Mei. She can easily counter his Suiton with hers and overpower it with no problem.

Err, no? I was using Gojou Kibakfuda as my offensive argument. Also, you're acting as if his Suiton is below average. Take his feats from Part 1 and then amplify that by 10. I can't really remember her Suiton feats, care to bring them up?

4. He may not be coming, but Mei would. He won't be able to evade CQC all the time. Moreover, he won't be even expecting that Jutsu. Almost instant, no hand seals. One spit and he's done for.
5. Some average Suiton won't cool/counter her Youton, because it's not Real World but NV. Water may be > Fire, but Earth > Water.

Hand seals are required for that jutsu. Also, he's a sensor. He can sense the build-up of chakra. You're also forgetting his techs require 1 hand seal. Another thing, she isn't going to be able to use hand seals in CQC, not when she's going up against someone who's displayed a

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and

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. She'll be outclassed in CQC when going up against someone who's a sensor and fast. Doton > Suiton but Tobirama has shown that high rank Suiton techs can overcome Doton techs. Also, Youton is mainly dominated by Katon, and Suiton > Katon. The Doton in Youton seems to give her the ability to quicken the hardening process of lava. It's still overcome by Suiton.

6. It burns through and stays on the body. There's no room for edos to regenerate. And about FTGing them. U really believe that Mei would give Tobirama enough time to: summon them, place talismans in them and then use his FTG seals on them? Seriously? If yes, then you are really naive.

I don't see why not since Tobirama can use shadow clones to keep her distracted. It doesn't take long at all to summon Edo shinobi, and once Tobirama has summoned them, she won't be able to seal them. The coffins can also be used as barriers which is what Orochimaru did against Hiruzen. It can't burn through and stay on the body, that makes no sense. Re-read that sentence.

 

[Nattana]

- Yeah, seriously. I didn't say he'll be adding water to the acid. I said once he's gotten away from the mist, any burns he's been inflicted with can be submerged in water to decrease the pain. There's also a difference between acid in liquid form and in a gaseous state. She had to do that because her allies were unaware of the mist. They didn't know what was going on between her and Sasuke since she sealed the wall.

And what would they do if they knew about the mist? Yeah, nothing. They'd have to run away. About the chemistry part - I'm not going to get into details about that one. Mixing NV with RL isn't a good idea.

- It's what clones were meant to be designed for. He's a Senju, he's fought for a full day against the Uchiha so using chakra-demanding jutsu aren't going to be a problem for him. And I didn't say he'd be using hundreds of shadow clones.

You don't know much about that fight. Stop assuming.

Err, no? I was using Gojou Kibakfuda as my offensive argument. Also, you're acting as if his Suiton is below average. Take his feats from Part 1 and then amplify that by 10. I can't really remember her Suiton feats, care to bring them up?

Well, compared to Mei, his Suiton IS average.
You can amplify that

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with anything you want.
It's not beating

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.

Hand seals are required for that jutsu. Also, he's a sensor. He can sense the build-up of chakra. You're also forgetting his techs require 1 hand seal. Another thing, she isn't going to be able to use hand seals in CQC, not when she's going up against someone who's displayed a

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and

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. She'll be outclassed in CQC when going up against someone who's a sensor and fast. Doton > Suiton but Tobirama has shown that high rank Suiton techs can overcome Doton techs. Also, Youton is mainly dominated by Katon, and Suiton > Katon. The Doton in Youton seems to give her the ability to quicken the hardening process of lava. It's still overcome by Suiton.

Hand seals are not needed

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.
He cannot sense it while in combat. He doesn't have SM sensing. Normal sensors need to focus on that.
Some of Mei's techniques require 1 or 0 hand seals.
Again, stop assuming. You don't know how much Doton there is in her Youton. And saying that his Suiton are higher rank than KKG? Please. I've already shown you comparison of their Suiton. I know it's hard to believe, but that how NV works. She has elemental advantage.

I don't see why not since Tobirama can use shadow clones to keep her distracted. It doesn't take long at all to summon Edo shinobi, and once Tobirama has summoned them, she won't be able to seal them. The coffins can also be used as barriers which is what Orochimaru did against Hiruzen. It can't burn through and stay on the body, that makes no sense. Re-read that sentence.

We don't even know how his ET works actually. He may need fresh bodies every single time he wants to use it. We have no feats of him using his EDO, we don't know if he used coffins of something else.
I can also bring up Mei skills in Doton and Katon in here. We know she had to master them to perfect her KKG. But we have no manga feats here so I'm not using that.
You on the other hand freely use his ET, despite him having complete 0 feats with it (we don't know how he summons them, how long it takes, whether he needs fresh bodies or not, what he controls them with etc. etc.)
Stop using Lord Orochimaru's D) feats, please.

 

[Smd]

what type of logic is this op?


mei>tobirama ninjutsu?

you must be jokeing

 

[Bogard]

what type of logic is this op?


mei>tobirama ninjutsu?

you must be jokeing

Well Tobirama only has suiton when Mei has katon, suiton(and better feats in terms of suiton), 2 kekkei genkai, so she is well versed in ninjutsu, better than Tobirama

 

[Smd]

Well Tobirama only has suiton when Mei has katon, suiton(and better feats in terms of suiton), 2 kekkei genkai, so she is well versed in ninjutsu, better than Tobirama

lol what about the fact that tobirama

-created edo tenesi
-created FTG


that alone shits on mei imo

 

[Nattana]

lol what about the fact that tobirama

-created edo tenesi
-created FTG

that alone shits on mei imo

Featless Edo Tensei. He hasn't used it in manga yet.
FTG is indeed very strong, but Mei is just a bad match up for FTG users, especially Tobirama who doesn't use FTG kunai.

In elemental Ninjutsu, Mei >>> Tobirama.

 

[Bogard]

lol what about the fact that tobirama

-created edo tenesi
-created FTG


that alone shits on mei imo

Creation =/= versatility. Kakashi only created one technique but he is one of the most well-versed in ninjutsu in the entire manga because he either learned or copied techniques that already existed. So while it's great Tobirama created those techniques, it doesn't prove he is as well-versed as Mei. I do admit however that in my comparison i didn't counted non-elemental ninjutsu

 

[Touken]

And what would they do if they knew about the mist? Yeah, nothing. They'd have to run away. About the chemistry part - I'm not going to get into details about that one. Mixing NV with RL isn't a good idea.

- Which is exactly what I said. Although, they wouldn't have to cover a great distance to escape the mist since it has a low range.

You don't know much about that fight. Stop assuming.

- And what the balls am I assuming here?

Spoiler

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The scan clearly shows they all fought for a day. There's no Mokuton present there so it's obvious that Hashirama didn't solo Madara and Tobirama clearly has marks on his armour and face to show he fought along with Hashirama, who also has the same battle marks.

Well, compared to Mei, his Suiton IS average.
You can amplify that

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with anything you want.
It's not beating

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.

- Amplify that by 10 and yeah, it is beating that. Compare Hashirama's Part 1 Mokuton to now.

Hand seals are not needed

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.
He cannot sense it while in combat. He doesn't have SM sensing. Normal sensors need to focus on that.
Some of Mei's techniques require 1 or 0 hand seals.
Again, stop assuming. You don't know how much Doton there is in her Youton. And saying that his Suiton are higher rank than KKG? Please. I've already shown you comparison of their Suiton. I know it's hard to believe, but that how NV works. She has elemental advantage.

- What? Now that's just silly. Nagato sensed Itachi using a dojutsu tech in combat. Muu sensed Naruto behind him while being distracted by other shinobi. And Mei didn't need to use hand seals there because the mist was already present; all she did was blow it in the Zetsu spore's face.
- All of Tobirama's techs require 1 hand seal. He beats her when it comes to hand seals.
- Some basic elemental ninjutsu we've already seen are above KKG we've seen. For example, Madara's Katon used against the alliance & Kitsuchi's Sandwich Technique; I'd put that over Mei's Youton any day.

We don't even know how his ET works actually. He may need fresh bodies every single time he wants to use it. We have no feats of him using his EDO, we don't know if he used coffins of something else.
I can also bring up Mei skills in Doton and Katon in here. We know she had to master them to perfect her KKG. But we have no manga feats here so I'm not using that.
You on the other hand freely use his ET, despite him having complete 0 feats with it (we don't know how he summons them, how long it takes, whether he needs fresh bodies or not, what he controls them with etc. etc.)
Stop using Lord Orochimaru's D) feats, please.

- @bold The heck? Every single time Kabuto/Orochimaru used ET, a coffin came up. Them two improved upon an existing technique, you're acting as if them two created ET. The fundamentals of ET didn't change when Kabuto/Orochimaru used ET. A coffin has shown up every time ET's been used and Kabuto/Orochimaru have never had to use fresh bodies. They sacrificed someone once and they could summon their intended shinobi over and over again. Tobirama himself stated that the only way Orochimaru improved upon ET was by

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. Nothing else was changed.
- We know exactly how Tobirama uses his Edos; he uses them to wipe the map clean. Evidenced by when Madara had stated this and when Tobirama himself displayed it.

 

[The Sach]

Stopped reading when you said that Mei's suiton>Tobirama's...:heh:

 

[Nattana]

- Which is exactly what I said. Although, they wouldn't have to cover a great distance to escape the mist since it has a low range.

Low range? Tell that to Madara's PS.

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- And what the balls am I assuming here?

Spoiler

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The scan clearly shows they all fought for a day. There's no Mokuton present there so it's obvious that Hashirama didn't solo Madara and Tobirama clearly has marks on his armour and face to show he fought along with Hashirama, who also has the same battle marks.

Right, THEY fought. It wasn't only Tobirama. You don't know what techniques they used, you don't know how much chakra he used. Nothing. Pure assumptions. Moreover, we've seen Tobirama during the war. In his edo form he managed to create max 2 clones. Seriously? He hadn't even done anything earlier on to be low on chakra. Only the barrier and even that was spread between 4 Hokage.

- Amplify that by 10 and yeah, it is beating that. Compare Hashirama's Part 1 Mokuton to now.

Any proof that Tobirama was at only 10% of his full power during the first usage of ET? And even if you amplify it by 10, it's not Mei's lvl.

- What? Now that's just silly. Nagato sensed Itachi using a dojutsu tech in combat. Muu sensed Naruto behind him while being distracted by other shinobi. And Mei didn't need to use hand seals there because the mist was already present; all she did was blow it in the Zetsu spore's face.

It's not silly. Tobirama isn't Nagato or Muu.
He doesn't have passive sensing. He began to sense some strong chakra after a few minutes after he had been revived.
Moreover, he couldn't sense that Orochimaru was made out of Hashi cells. When he got restrained, THEN he focused on sensing and THEN he could find that out.

- All of Tobirama's techs require 1 hand seal. He beats her when it comes to hand seals.
- Some basic elemental ninjutsu we've already seen are above KKG we've seen. For example, Madara's Katon used against the alliance & Kitsuchi's Sandwich Technique; I'd put that over Mei's Youton any day.

All techniques you say? ET requires more than 1 seal.
And about these elemental ninjutsu. Comparing Madara's Katon to Tobirama's Suiton in terms of power? Seriously?
Mei's elemental Ninjutsu proficiency >>> Tobirama's. That's not even debatable.
And so far, Mei uses 1 hand seals for basic Ninjutsu as well.

- @bold The heck? Every single time Kabuto/Orochimaru used ET, a coffin came up. Them two improved upon an existing technique, you're acting as if them two created ET. The fundamentals of ET didn't change when Kabuto/Orochimaru used ET. A coffin has shown up every time ET's been used and Kabuto/Orochimaru have never had to use fresh bodies. They sacrificed someone once and they could summon their intended shinobi over and over again. Tobirama himself stated that the only way Orochimaru improved upon ET was by

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. Nothing else was changed.
- We know exactly how Tobirama uses his Edos; he uses them to wipe the map clean. Evidenced by when Madara had stated this and when Tobirama himself displayed it.

Firstly, it was never stated that Orochimaru improved ONLY the efficiency and accuracy. You made that up.
Secondly, it doesn't even matter, since Tobirama's ET is featless. He hasn't used it yet. We know he knows it, but it wasn't featured in manga. Same with Mei's Katon and Doton.

 

[Nattana]

Stopped reading when you said that Mei's suiton>Tobirama's...:heh:

I'm not even gonna treat you seriously.
Mei showed massive Suiton feats.
Compared to her, Tobirama showed almost nothing.
You may say that a random fodder praised Tobirama's skill. Well, cool. But if he had seen what Mei could do, he would've gotten a heart attack.

 

[NarutoIndra]

- Yeah, seriously. I didn't say he'll be adding water to the acid. I said once he's gotten away from the mist, any burns he's been inflicted with can be submerged in water to decrease the pain. There's also a difference between acid in liquid form and in a gaseous state. She had to do that because her allies were unaware of the mist. They didn't know what was going on between her and Sasuke since she sealed the wall.

He won't be adding water to the acid to decrease pain.. For one, he hasn't even shown to be capable of submerging any body part he wills with suiton, unless you are suggesting he uses one of his high scale jutsu's to put himself at decreed pain, and greater risk. The acid cannot be seen, so what makes you think Tobirama will be capable of escaping? She has shown to be capable of adjusting her pH levels, so if she puts her pH at 0, his eyes will most definitely be deteriorated since they are highly consistent of proteins.

- It's what clones were meant to be designed for. He's a Senju, he's fought for a full day against the Uchiha so using chakra-demanding jutsu aren't going to be a problem for him. And I didn't say he'd be using hundreds of shadow clones.

Err, no? I was using Gojou Kibakfuda as my offensive argument. Also, you're acting as if his Suiton is below average. Take his feats from Part 1 and then amplify that by 10. I can't really remember her Suiton feats, care to bring them up?

Fair enough. However, all Kage Bunshins will easily disappear in a matchup against Mei, who uses acidic mist which will indubitably affect them. Even if Tobirama will realise something is occurring, he won't know what is happening or where it is happening.

He won't summon edo's in time, stop acting like he will also have time for Gojou Kibakfuda. Your argument on Tobirama having more than one edo is an assumption. We can only assume he has one edo, and by this logic, she can use a lava like this which would not only cover the coffin, melt through it with ease, affect the edo making him constantly restore, and hit Tobirama who is standing right behind the coffin. Furthermore, Tobirama cannot see what she is doing during this interval, since the

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being created will heavily obscure his view. The AOE is easily enough to cover an area five times the size of that. "Take his feats from part 1 and amplify that by 10" Seems accurate.. What a baseless assumption. I'm not going to even argue with you about Mei's suiton having better feats than Tobirama's. She has already shown she can use her suitor in huge scales, and knock Madara's Susano around upon other things [

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]-->[

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].

Hand seals are required for that jutsu. Also, he's a sensor. He can sense the build-up of chakra. You're also forgetting his techs require 1 hand seal. Another thing, she isn't going to be able to use hand seals in CQC, not when she's going up against someone who's displayed a

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and

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. She'll be outclassed in CQC when going up against someone who's a sensor and fast. Doton > Suiton but Tobirama has shown that high rank Suiton techs can overcome Doton techs. Also, Youton is mainly dominated by Katon, and Suiton > Katon. The Doton in Youton seems to give her the ability to quicken the hardening process of lava. It's still overcome by Suiton.

I don't see why not since Tobirama can use shadow clones to keep her distracted. It doesn't take long at all to summon Edo shinobi, and once Tobirama has summoned them, she won't be able to seal them. The coffins can also be used as barriers which is what Orochimaru did against Hiruzen. It can't burn through and stay on the body, that makes no sense. Re-read that sentence.

Tobirama has to knead chakra to sense, he can't sense without kneading chakra [

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], just something to keep in mind. That wasn't a strength feat, that was a chakra feat. And the last thing Tobirama wants to do is go close to Mei. He can't mark her or use taijutsu against her, when she can do this

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hand seals. Youton is lava, and lava does not instantly cool from water. If you are trying to say Tobirama can counter Youton projectiles with Suiton, you are mistaken. Not only will the Youton evaporate the Suiton nearly instantaneously (950-1200 C), it will also keep going forward with barely any less momentum. You need a lot of water to cool lava, and even then you are putting yourself at great risks. The steam of cooling lava contains sulphuric acid, volcanic glass particles, and possibly hydrochloric acid. Hydrochloric acid burns through dead bodies, I seriously hope you don't thin Tobirama can resist this. Sulfuric acid can burn through steel, also hope you don't think Tobirama can tank this. Sulphuric acid easily blinds as well.

Kage Bunshins's aren't a factor, they are demolished by lava steam and Futton. They stand no chance, nor will they be effective under Mei's Mist jutsu. And it does take a decent amount of time, especially when you are being hit by Youton while you attempt to summon your weak edo. It burns through the body while the edo body is regenerating. Meaning they are counteracting each others effects. Mei can alter her lava as she wills, so he can have it come at a higher viscosity whenever she wants, since she is the one controlling the amount of Doton she kneads with her baton. The less Katon, the higher the viscosity. This would create a very thick solid about 80,000-100,000 times as viscous as water on the edo's body. Meaning the lava barely moves at all. Lava moving down slowly, while the majority stays at the initial point it hit. In other words, the Edo would be regenerating from head to toe due to lava. Moreover, once the lava has cooled, it would simply harden, and make it impossible for the Edo to move in a hardened state. If her Futton is also there, the lava simply wouldn't