Ramen for the ignorant soul

[DeadManWonderLand]

"RIN,RIN,RIN !!!"

"____________ isn't even the same person anymore"

"_________ has been pretty much circumcised developmentally wise"

"PNJ !" " TNJ !" " PLOT HOLE !"

"Kishi has lost my respect"

"___________ Is not a "TRUE" villain.

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Pay attention to the manga & separate your expectations/differing opinions on how you thought (the story)it could went with the story KISHI is trying to tell.They will never be an exact match up.

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The themes (Love-Hate-Revenge-Redemption-Understanding) in this manga have been prevalent since the very first antagonist to appear on screen starting with Zabuza & Haku. (Land of Waves ARC)

Gaara (Chuunin Exams ARC)

Kimmimaro (Sasuke retrieval ARC)

Sasori (Rescue Kazekage ARC)

Obito & Nagato in general

Even with other shinobi that have initially started off as obstacles or opposites embodying opposing ideals to which naruto believes in or stands for.


Neji (Chuunin Exams ARC)

Sasuke (Sasuke retrieval ARC)

Obito & Nagato in general


The list could go on.

Anyway,stop being narrow minded because of your preconceived notions of what Villains have to do to be considered villains or "TRUE VILLAINS" and embrace the larger picture of the story kishi is telling.


We get it,you don't like obito's motives,we don't need a thousand threads everyday pointing this out.
You (Rin complaining thread makers) Think his reasoning is lame,well your thread is even lamer.

And to the ones i quote here ""Kishi has lost my respect" You think kishi would honestly care ? lol
Are you that hung up on his work that you begin to meld fiction with reality ?

And finally to those who spout ""____________ isn't even the same person anymore" its called change it is apart of DEVELOPMENT,which is an entirely separate from your expected development on the characters.

Do you want characters to be of one note ? Do you like it when characters learn nothing from their actions ?
Do you want villains/people with depth or stubborn idiots ? Or do you want some villain seen in another movie/manga/anime ?

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Go read/watch that movie/manga/anime

 

[Strata Uchiha]

Consumer: Kishimoto-dono....you've lost my respect and admiration as far as Naruto story writing is concerned.

Kishimoto: Aren't you one of those NarutoBase Denizens who reads my manga every week for free?

Consumer: Y-y-yes...?

Kishimoto: Psh...baka.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
And those are the Coors Light Cold Hard Facts.

 

[Guntah]

Wow... i am speechless, its about time someone made a thread like this.

Thank you DeadManWonderLand, thank you.

 

[-Punk-]

Opinions , Opinions .

 

[Snape Uchiha]

I actually liked Obito's motive's. However his character was so immersed in his point of view and firmly believed he was right. I don't like how he would change so easily just because Naruto talked to him. He should have development and maybe regret his actions but completely deciding to go against his ideology and then being allowed to return to Konoha is something I don't like.
As for Nagato, he was changed to easily, with such a short conversation. As least Obito's change was built up. Furthermore, when he brought everyone back to life, it makes the reader take the manga less seriously because death no longer has meaning.

 

[SharinganisOP]

I've liked Naruto as a series and didn't really have a problem with any of the "TNJ". Personally "PNJ" is more of a plot hole thing to me than anything, I mean seriously Obito could bring down any of the jinchurriki himself pre-timeskip and post-timeskip if Kakashi or Itachi isn't there (Talking about alive people at the time, dead people could have also possibly stood a chance against Obito). This means he could have taken down 8 jinchurriki in their home cities without Itachi caring and honestly could probabally get Naruto while he is sleeping.

Though I don't really like PNJ, I understand it's usefulness. Many manga uses it in someway or form to be honest, though obviously it wouldn't be called PNJ, but rather something like it had to happen this way because of the plot. I also don't hate PNJ since it honestly makes for a better story, Obito rape facing people before Naruto gets strong doesn't make for a good story.

Also I would have preferred if Obito stayed a villain, there is still a very slight chance he will, but from the way things look he isn't. But tbh I kind of liked this TNJ it gave a good background of something we didn't know about Obito and I think it went very well.

P.S: I like your signature OP, One of my favorite episodes of ATHF

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

I actually liked Obito's motive's. However his character was so immersed in his point of view and firmly believed he was right. I don't like how he would change so easily just because Naruto talked to him. He should have development and maybe regret his actions but completely deciding to go against his ideology and then being allowed to return to Konoha is something I don't like.
As for Nagato, he was changed to easily, with such a short conversation. As least Obito's change was built up. Furthermore, when he brought everyone back to life, it makes the reader take the manga less seriously because death no longer has meaning.

The memories naruto brought up are the regrets obito has about moving forward with his plan,the fact that his mind was on his former team while fighting to control the juubi from taking over were signs that he still cherished people that were in his life.It doesn't need to be outspoken.And obito never took naruto's hand and offered to atone for what he has done.

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

I've liked Naruto as a series and didn't really have a problem with any of the "TNJ". Personally "PNJ" is more of a plot hole thing to me than anything, I mean seriously Obito could bring down any of the jinchurriki himself pre-timeskip and post-timeskip if Kakashi or Itachi isn't there (Talking about alive people at the time, dead people could have also possibly stood a chance against Obito). This means he could have taken down 8 jinchurriki in their home cities without Itachi caring and honestly could probabally get Naruto while he is sleeping.

Though I don't really like PNJ, I understand it's usefulness. Many manga uses it in someway or form to be honest, though obviously it wouldn't be called PNJ, but rather something like it had to happen this way because of the plot. I also don't hate PNJ since it honestly makes for a better story, Obito rape facing people before Naruto gets strong doesn't make for a good story.

Also I would have preferred if Obito stayed a villain, there is still a very slight chance he will, but from the way things look he isn't. But tbh I kind of liked this TNJ it gave a good background of something we didn't know about Obito and I think it went very well.

P.S: I like your signature OP, One of my favorite episodes of ATHF

" I mean seriously Obito could bring down any of the jinchurriki himself pre-timeskip and post-timeskip if Kakashi or Itachi isn't there"

That is not a Plot Hole.

That is a Plot Device.


Plot Holes contradict the story.

Plot Devices move the story along.


When people say PNJ there saying Plot Device (Even if they themselves don't know that)

 

[BlacLord™]

Exact matchup?

Kishimoto has become a bit of a broken record, let's hope Madara offers a refreshing ending.

 

[Xlad]

I like your use of images.

 

[SharinganisOP]

" I mean seriously Obito could bring down any of the jinchurriki himself pre-timeskip and post-timeskip if Kakashi or Itachi isn't there"

That is not a Plot Hole.

That is a Plot Device.


Plot Holes contradict the story.

Plot Devices move the story along.


When people say PNJ there saying Plot Device (Even if they themselves don't know that)

I'm sorry you are right. I didn't mean plot hole, nice catch. Thanks for the correction. It definitely isn't a plot hole that that situation didn't happen since it never actually happened in the story, my choice of words was poor. My point is that it didn't happen in order to advance the plot in a better way. If Obito had done that it wouldn't make a good story, so yes it is a plot device and thus happened to make the plot better and thus a PNJ.

 

[Kurome]

Exact matchup?

Kishimoto has become a bit of a broken record, let's hope Madara offers a refreshing ending.

I agree ^^

 

[Naijakid]

Good thread, tis just so good

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

I'm sorry you are right. I didn't mean plot hole, nice catch. Thanks for the correction. It definitely isn't a plot hole that that situation didn't happen since it never actually happened in the story, my choice of words was poor. My point is that it didn't happen in order to advance the plot in a better way. If Obito had done that it wouldn't make a good story, so yes it is a plot device and thus happened to make the plot better and thus a PNJ.

There are things that i would done differently as well.

And even though plot devices are not inherently bad i agree that some plot devices in the manga that have been executed can be seen for what they really are (A way to prolong or avoid a certain situation)

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

Exact matchup?

Kishimoto has become a bit of a broken record, let's hope Madara offers a refreshing ending.

His themes do seem to dominate and make it fairly easy to predict most outcomes (The last arc especially) So i somewhat agree and see why would compare it to a broken record lol