Alive Prime Madara loses to Gokage

[Transcendence]

Prime Madara has Kurama and PS and the preceding fusion as such. I'd ascertain the thought that he'd win in a more dominating fashion than his Edo Tensei form given the destructive capacity from Kurama in conjunction with PS blades.

 

[Penguin]

Gokage win. PS takes time to stabilize. In that time, they rape him.

Why not?Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu are the requirements to master Susanoo.

No they are not. Get the VIZ.

 

[Bronze]

Gokage win. PS takes time to stabilize. In that time, they rape him.



No they are not. Get the VIZ.

Actually they are. Itachi's statement, Sasuke's statement and the databook have all stated that Susanoo = Amaterus and Tsukuyomi.

 

[AGoodBoy]

Prime Madara has Kurama and PS and the preceding fusion as such. I'd ascertain the thought that he'd win in a more dominating fashion than his Edo Tensei form given the destructive capacity from Kurama in conjunction with PS blades.

Prime madara doesn't start with kurama nor PS kurama. Kurama is his summoning, while PS and PS coat are last resorts. Only with a PS/PS coat can madara win this battle. Any other scenario would be to the gokage's favor. EMS madara is strong, so is kurama, but the gokage can easily compete with them individually or as a duo. Their only worry is PS.

*** I'm sure you'll probably state TBB GG but tbb has never been shown to be effective in this manga. It's always been thwarted. A simple Jinton, Mobile core, flight, etc are enough to allow the kages survival of a tbb.

 

[NarutoIndra]

PS's size dwarfed the biggest Jinton in this series, any other Jinton wouldn't do enough to destroy it. Not to mention it has a charge time, and during that time Madara can easily kill them.

The Gokage aren't beating a Prime Madara, not a chance. Manga portrayal puts him above the Gokage anyway considering they were shown to be helpless against Perfect Susanoo, which is Prime Madara's best technique (Bar Kurama and PS combo)

We do not even know if Edo-Madara's PS is equal in terms of size and power to when he was alive. We also do not know if his PS can reach that size while stabilised without Hashirama Senju's cells. Moreover, Madara isn't everywhere within the PS, but rather at the head. Jinton can be simply aimed for the head which would take Madara out.

The Gokage are their as well, this isn't onoki alone vs EMS Madara.. Tsunade has shown to tank Yasaka Magatama and several Katon's with the Byakugo. Saying she wouldn't be capable of doing it again is fallacious. Ay can also take one for the team and die while protecting Onoki. Mei was capable of countering Madara's Katon with her Suiton Suijinchu followed by a Suiton Suiryudan to throw a ribcage Susano pretty far back [

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]. Gaara can help with defensive means as well. He can tank a lot for the Gokage, with the Shukaku shield and his regular sand shield. Clearly, with all these defensive feats, Madara won't be capable of simply brushing past all these and hitting Onoki while he is preparing a Jinton.

Furthermore, Gaara and Onoki have already shown to be capable of taking Madara out of the Susano. Whether Jinton is used on the bottom half or top half of the Susano, it will end up being somewhat open, and impossible to regenerate in a matter of seconds. Gaara Onoki could simply pull Madara out of is Susano at this point like they have already done, and don't have to worry about him using Preta to absorb any incoming attacks.

 

[KidGamer65]

We do not even know if Edo-Madara's PS is equal in terms of size and power to when he was alive. We also do not know if his PS can reach that size while stabilised without Hashirama Senju's cells. Moreover, Madara isn't everywhere within the PS, but rather at the head. Jinton can be simply aimed for the head which would take Madara out.

There is nothing that implies he can't nor is there anything that implies Hashirama's cells increased the power of his Susanoo. Especially when Hashirama's cells never increased the power of anyone's jutsu.

Good thing that Jinton isn't going to be fired before PS kills every single one of them with a swing of its sword.

The Gokage are their as well, this isn't onoki alone vs EMS Madara.. Tsunade has shown to tank Yasaka Magatama and several Katon's with the Byakugo. Saying she wouldn't be capable of doing it again is fallacious. Ay can also take one for the team and die while protecting Onoki. Mei was capable of countering Madara's Katon with her Suiton Suijinchu followed by a Suiton Suiryudan to throw a ribcage Susano pretty far back [

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]. Gaara can help with defensive means as well. He can tank a lot for the Gokage, with the Shukaku shield and his regular sand shield. Clearly, with all these defensive feats, Madara won't be capable of simply brushing past all these and hitting Onoki while he is preparing a Jinton.

-Who mentioned Yasaka Magatama?

-Why are you referring to a Ribcage Susanoo when we are talking about Perfect Susanoo? I hope you aren't telling me that he isn't going to be able to use it before they kill him, cause that isn't the case, not when every single power he used in that fight bar PS and regular Susanoo is available to him when he's alive. PS would come out much, much, much sooner.

This obliterates the Gokage and easily prevents Onoki from charging Jinton while also smashing through the defenses of every Kage and killing them. [

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]

If this a level 3 Susanoo with legs, which has shown to be

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by

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and

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. It'd simply evade Jinton by leaping out of the way as long as the distance allows it, but he still needs PS to beat them.

Furthermore, Gaara and Onoki have already shown to be capable of taking Madara out of the Susano. Whether Jinton is used on the bottom half or top half of the Susano, it will end up being somewhat open, and impossible to regenerate in a matter of seconds. Gaara Onoki could simply pull Madara out of is Susano at this point like they have already done, and don't have to worry about him using Preta to absorb any incoming attacks.

Uh no. Not only is Jinton far too small to take off half of Susanoo making this whole strategy moot, it still has a charge time and Madara isn't going to sit there twiddling his thumbs while they do so. This applies even more so if you are referring to Super Jinton.

 

[Strict]

Prime Madara?

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Kidding?

 

[Flakez]

Lol what? Prime Madara has Kurama. Gokages lose low diff.

 

[adeshina365]

Madara wins easily.

 

[NarutoIndra]

There is nothing that implies he can't nor is there anything that implies Hashirama's cells increased the power of his Susanoo. Especially when Hashirama's cells never increased the power of anyone's jutsu.

Good thing that Jinton isn't going to be fired before PS kills every single one of them with a swing of its sword.

Um? hashirama's cells haven't increased any jutsu's efficiency? So KA wasn't improved with Hashirama's cells? Orochimaru couldn't use edo Tensei with more restraint making it more efficient? Tobi's Izanagi span increasing to ten minutes? The bond between Madara and Juubi being strengthened with Hashirama's

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didn't occur?

Clearly all these did occur, signifying how Hashirama's cells can give a person capabilities beyond his regular possibility. So saying it wouldn't help in Susano is absurd. It would most definitely contribute, and one way it could make it more efficient is by completely stabilising something larger than what Madara's regular capabilities of stabilising would be. Denying it would help in any way, let alone have a big aspect, would be absurd.

-Who mentioned Yasaka Magatama?

-Why are you referring to a Ribcage Susanoo when we are talking about Perfect Susanoo? I hope you aren't telling me that he isn't going to be able to use it before they kill him, cause that isn't the case, not when every single power he used in that fight bar PS and regular Susanoo is available to him when he's alive. PS would come out much, much, much sooner.

I am simply referring to her tanking feats she's has shown in the manga. Saying abilities other than the PS could kill them before Onoki uses Jinton is improbable. I wasn't implying anything with that statement, I was simply trying to remind you of the situation in which she used her Suijinchu, which can counter Madara's Katon. I clearly do know ribcage=/=PS.

PS's destructive capacity is considered Island level+ when scaled. Gaara's sand has shown to be Town level durability when he tanked C3. PS is still beyond Gaara's defines, but Kūsa Bōheki should at least be capable of removing some momentum from the shockwave. This would: decrease the speed of the shockwave and reduce the power of the shock wave.

Ay is considered hypersonic-massively hypersonic. This implies that his speed is at least 12,000 m/s. This would also imply that this speed is faster than the shockwave of the PS swipe. The PS swipe has shown to be island-mountain level, which would infer that it's destructive capacity is beyond 10 km. It would also imply that it is within a 40km radius. The tsar bomb, a nuclear bomb has a shockwave which travels at 30,000m/s and an explosion radius of 35.5 km. This means that even with PS having a 40km radius (which it absolutely doesn't, it still doesn't reach the speed of the Raikage). Why? Because the Raikage's reaction speed is considered massively hypersonic, meaning he can react to Mach 100. Mach 100=112,360m/s. So if the fight is within 100 meters; Madara swings his sword and a shockwave is created going at 30,000m/s. This means within 0.00416 seconds, the shockwave would hit him. However, all Ay needs is supersonic speed to react to the PS swipe. With his massively hypersonic reaction speed, he can react to 100 mach from 3.4 meters-34 cm. Technically point blank range. So this would mean he can react to Madara's shockwave within 0.000130 seconds. This means Ay has 0.0043 seconds to move. Within 0.0043 seconds, Ay can move 51.6 meters, meaning Ay can completely dodge the attack if he moves at a horizontal direction. It is actually completely coincidental that it is 1.6 meters out of the 50 meter distance, which I find quite amusing, but this distance would be by far greater if I wasn't this generous to Madara and this harsh to Ay.

This obliterates the Gokage and easily prevents Onoki from charging Jinton while also smashing through the defenses of every Kage and killing them. [

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]

If this a level 3 Susanoo with legs, which has shown to be

You must be registered for see links

by

You must be registered for see links

and

You must be registered for see links

. It'd simply evade Jinton by leaping out of the way as long as the distance allows it, but he still needs PS to beat them.

Already proved he can evade the PS swipe if he were to carry Onoki with him. This could be quite easy for Onoki, prep while Ay is helping him dodge any attack PS has to offer.

Uh no. Not only is Jinton far too small to take off half of Susanoo making this whole strategy moot, it still has a charge time and Madara isn't going to sit there twiddling his thumbs while they do so. This applies even more so if you are referring to Super Jinton.

He won't he will be swinging his PS sword while Ay takes Onoki to safety.
Made it times roman so the calculations are easier to read.

 

[VolatileSoul]

The five Kage can do nothing to PS and they made that very clear. His modifications are a non factor, Perfect Susano'o was the one thing they couldn't deal with. Not to mention Madara was toying with them the entire fight. Jinton isn't even an issue as he beat Onoki and Muu in the past easily. Besides, they had a better chance against Edo Madara. Are you forgetting Prime Madara had Kurama

 

[Ahmed1993]

Madara rolfstomp them U_U

 

[Goddess Tsunade]

He didn't absorbed the Jinton, he tanked it with Susanoo. He can't use the Preta Path and the Susanoo at the same time.

no, he never tanked jinton with Susanoo, Onoki's jinton didn't hit PS,
and jinton already destroyed his Susanoo clones, so it can do the same to PS

Jinton at full power is barely up to Perfect Susano'o's waist and yet Jinton is 'GG' worthy?

they don't have to destroy the whole PS, the jinton just have to hit the area where Madara is

Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu are the requirements to master Susanoo.

I don't remember it being mentioned in the manga

The five Kage can do nothing to PS and they made that very clear. His modifications are a non factor, Perfect Susano'o was the one thing they couldn't deal with. Not to mention Madara was toying with them the entire fight. Jinton isn't even an issue as he beat Onoki and Muu in the past easily. Besides, they had a better chance against Edo Madara. Are you forgetting Prime Madara had Kurama

an alive Madara couldn't use 25 mokuton bunshins with Susanoo,
and his Susanoo army was the only thing that made the Kages tired,
without the benefit of being Edo, a lot of things he have done wouldn't have been possible
the Kages were already exhausted when he activated PS, that's why they got overwhelmed
and they thought they don't stand a chance, but without mokuton, rinnegan, and Edo benefits,
Gokage beats him even with his PS,
I forgot to mention that the scenario is when they fought during this war,
and Madara don't have Kurama. =D

 

[Seventh Sama]

a well placed Jinton could kill madara, considering that it has the potential to destroy an island. However Madara isn't going to be one place so. Madara Med diff

 

[Aya San]

PS tanks jinton, u can clearly see he pulled it out inside the jinton...

 

[KidGamer65]

Um? hashirama's cells haven't increased any jutsu's efficiency? So KA wasn't improved with Hashirama's cells? Orochimaru couldn't use edo Tensei with more restraint making it more efficient? Tobi's Izanagi span increasing to ten minutes? The bond between Madara and Juubi being strengthened with Hashirama's

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didn't occur?

I never said the jutsu's efficiency never increased. I clearly stated that it never made anyone's jutsu stronger, which is not the same thing.

-Did Izanagi become stronger? No, it became longer.

-Did KA get stronger? No, it's cooldown increased.

-That binding is completely different from the main point since Hashirama's DNA (Which is also the source of Mokuton) binds Bijuu. Its no surprise that his DNA would increase the binding to the Juubi, which is a Bijuu.

-Even Orochimaru's chakra made Edo Tensei's binding stronger.

Madara's offensive jutsu never took a large increase. He made the same Susanoo he used

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at the Valley of the End but without a lower body. Surely you aren't going to argue that Hashirama's DNA allowed him to put legs on his Susanoo.

Clearly all these did occur, signifying how Hashirama's cells can give a person capabilities beyond his regular possibility. So saying it wouldn't help in Susano is absurd. It would most definitely contribute, and one way it could make it more efficient is by completely stabilising something larger than what Madara's regular capabilities of stabilising would be. Denying it would help in any way, let alone have a big aspect, would be absurd.

Hashirama's cells make a person's chakra reserves larger, it wouldn't do anything to Susanoo when its never increased the power of ANYONE's offensive jutsu in this manga. Ever. We've seen Naruto's chakra handout barely effect Sasuke, as its been shown he can make a Perfect Susanoo on his own, thus he can make the legged Susanoo on his own without Naruto's help. Even Naruto's chakra didn't boost Susanoo's size so I don't see why Hashirama's cells of all things would do anything.

Hashirama's cells have no relation to Madara stabilizing Susanoo/

PS's destructive capacity is considered Island level+ when scaled. Gaara's sand has shown to be Town level durability when he tanked C3. PS is still beyond Gaara's defines, but Kūsa Bōheki should at least be capable of removing some momentum from the shockwave. This would: decrease the speed of the shockwave and reduce the power of the shock wave.

His sand was more durable when he was Shukaku's Jinchuuriki, add that with the fact that it's only feat is tanking a far inferior attack you have it getting ripped through with ease, and still killing the Gokage as it doesn't need Mountain cutting force to kill 5 humans.

Ay is considered hypersonic-massively hypersonic. This implies that his speed is at least 12,000 m/s. This would also imply that this speed is faster than the shockwave of the PS swipe. The PS swipe has shown to be island-mountain level, which would infer that it's destructive capacity is beyond 10 km. It would also imply that it is within a 40km radius. The tsar bomb, a nuclear bomb has a shockwave which travels at 30,000m/s and an explosion radius of 35.5 km. This means that even with PS having a 40km radius (which it absolutely doesn't, it still doesn't reach the speed of the Raikage). Why? Because the Raikage's reaction speed is considered massively hypersonic, meaning he can react to Mach 100. Mach 100=112,360m/s. So if the fight is within 100 meters; Madara swings his sword and a shockwave is created going at 30,000m/s. This means within 0.00416 seconds, the shockwave would hit him. However, all Ay needs is supersonic speed to react to the PS swipe. With his massively hypersonic reaction speed, he can react to 100 mach from 3.4 meters-34 cm. Technically point blank range. So this would mean he can react to Madara's shockwave within 0.000130 seconds. This means Ay has 0.0043 seconds to move. Within 0.0043 seconds, Ay can move 51.6 meters, meaning Ay can completely dodge the attack if he moves at a horizontal direction. It is actually completely coincidental that it is 1.6 meters out of the 50 meter distance, which I find quite amusing, but this distance would be by far greater if I wasn't this generous to Madara and this harsh to Ay.

Ay is considered Hypersonic+ going by the

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, not massively hypersonic. So no, his speed would be AT LEAST 1701.45 m/s which is Mach 5. His reactions is what is massively hypersonic, so can he react to the slash? Sure. Is he going to evade it? No.

Not to mention Madara has two swords. Is he going to evade it used in succession? Not a chance. If you want to go by calcs anyway, Madara is faster than Ay as they have him at Massively Hypersonic movement speed and have Ay at Hypersonic+. So he'd be able to deactivate Susanoo and simply evade Jinton on foot....but of course I highly, highly doubt that he's faster than Ay....main reason why I can't take calcs seriously. Not to mention they rely on Kishimoto's inconsistent sizes.

Already proved he can evade the PS swipe if he were to carry Onoki with him. This could be quite easy for Onoki, prep while Ay is helping him dodge any attack PS has to offer.

-How in the world is Onoki going to prep Jinton while riding on top of Ay? He needs his hands to hold onto Ay so he doesn't fall off, but if he charges Jinton, which requires his hands to be still, he can't hold on.

He won't he will be swinging his PS sword while Ay takes Onoki to safety.

Made it times roman so the calculations are easier to read.

Oh no...he most definitely will.

 

[NarutoIndra]

I never said the jutsu's efficiency never increased. I clearly stated that it never made anyone's jutsu stronger, which is not the same thing.

-Did Izanagi become stronger? No, it became longer.

-Did KA get stronger? No, it's cooldown increased.

-That binding is completely different from the main point since Hashirama's DNA (Which is also the source of Mokuton) binds Bijuu. Its no surprise that his DNA would increase the binding to the Juubi, which is a Bijuu.

-Even Orochimaru's chakra made Edo Tensei's binding stronger.

Madara's offensive jutsu never took a large increase. He made the same Susanoo he used

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at the Valley of the End but without a lower body. Surely you aren't going to argue that Hashirama's DNA allowed him to put legs on his Susanoo.



Hashirama's cells make a person's chakra reserves larger, it wouldn't do anything to Susanoo when its never increased the power of ANYONE's offensive jutsu in this manga. Ever. We've seen Naruto's chakra handout barely effect Sasuke, as its been shown he can make a Perfect Susanoo on his own, thus he can make the legged Susanoo on his own without Naruto's help. Even Naruto's chakra didn't boost Susanoo's size so I don't see why Hashirama's cells of all things would do anything.

Hashirama's cells have no relation to Madara stabilizing Susanoo/




His sand was more durable when he was Shukaku's Jinchuuriki, add that with the fact that it's only feat is tanking a far inferior attack you have it getting ripped through with ease, and still killing the Gokage as it doesn't need Mountain cutting force to kill 5 humans.



Ay is considered Hypersonic+ going by the

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, not massively hypersonic. So no, his speed would be AT LEAST 1701.45 m/s which is Mach 5. His reactions is what is massively hypersonic, so can he react to the slash? Sure. Is he going to evade it? No.

Not to mention Madara has two swords. Is he going to evade it used in succession? Not a chance. If you want to go by calcs anyway, Madara is faster than Ay as they have him at Massively Hypersonic movement speed and have Ay at Hypersonic+. So he'd be able to deactivate Susanoo and simply evade Jinton on foot....but of course I highly, highly doubt that he's faster than Ay....main reason why I can't take calcs seriously. Not to mention they rely on Kishimoto's inconsistent sizes.





-How in the world is Onoki going to prep Jinton while riding on top of Ay? He needs his hands to hold onto Ay so he doesn't fall off, but if he charges Jinton, which requires his hands to be still, he can't hold on.



Oh no...he most definitely will.

**** it. I give up.

 

[Aya San]

**** it. I give up.

Omg haha XD