Establishing why DSM Kabuto> Kakuzu

[Gakido]

I agree. Kakuzu really doesn't stand a chance.

 

[Zexion~]

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Just so everyones clear that DSM Kabuto own kakazu inside or out, im making this thread. This takes place outside and of course Manda and ET is restricted. But even with these restriction DSM kabuto still wins. Mostly be discussing why Kabuto can use most of his moves and how they take him out.

We shall see

Let first remind ourselves that Kabuto has the life force and healing techniques of that as an uzumaki, this allows him to recover at a rapid rate and with the healing of the white snake he is pretty much impervious to most attacks.

There's no recovering from becoming a puddle...Or being evaporated. But alright this is noted.

Showing difference in speed and reflexes

Now i think its fairly obvious that DSM kabuto out-ranks kakuzu in terms of speed. From what we have see in the Uchiha bros vs Kabuto he is able to dodge a Susano'o arrow with complete ease

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and a chidori spear with even more ease

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. Kakuzu hasn't displayed any speed feats or reflex feats to even suggest that hes even close to Kabutos level of evasive moving. one of the most impressive Reflex feats Kakazu has implemented is when hidan when to attack him under Shikamarus control

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but even then, Hidan has already warned Kakazu a little while before Kakazu had actually dodged. I'm not belittling Kakazus ability to move however he will need a more impressive reflex time in order to keep up with Kabuto. Even when he caught Kakashi, it was because they though Kakazu was out of commission for a while and Kakazu used that time to his advantage. This is not his average speed but more his way of being resourceful.

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when Kakuzu find himself in situations he cant evade, he resorts to domu and this is an attack kabuto could have easily evaded, giving his current feats anyway.

I'l admit that DSM clearly gives the reflex advantage and what not to Kabuto, but lets not forget using Domu is also a reflex, which he was able to do in time for an ambush with one of the fastest techniques, Raikiri. Now i know mostly everyone dis-agree's with this little fact Due to him being colored in before. However as we all know you are unable to move when in Domu, yet Kakuzu was able to turn from looking at Shikamaru and Chouji to Hidan

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Which means that the Domu had already been de-activated..now another proof is that look at his arms in the bottom scan of him, they have already been un-colored and are 100% Out of Domu

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Yet here they are again Dark, proving that he indeed use Domu from the transition of the two pages. This means that he can use Domu rather quickly, and an Ambush no less of Raikiri is quite the speedy thing to defend against. Which means that most of Kabuto's moves can be defended against with domu, i'll see your counter to that later. Now another thing i wan't to point out is the speed of Kakuzu's threads....While Kabuto may have the physical speed advantage Kakuzu has threads that can move at high speeds that may be able to catch Kabuto off guard. They were able to catch a sharingan user off guard ...Twice

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, With Kabuto's sensing focused mostly on anticipating Kakuzu's jutsu's it wouldn't be that hard for Kakuzu to slip these into his attacks and restrain Kabuto...Even if for just a little it would be enough to completely turn him into steam, without the extra anticipation, and the delayed reaction ( due to the threads) There is no way he's going to be able to outmaneuver

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This, note that this was before it even hit its full stride as it was interrupted by Naruto and Yamato's jutsu, and it was already dwarfing tree's that made humans seem puny

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His hearts are also not impressively fast and it is shown that they jump and glide rather than fly, regardless weather they fly or not, they have not shown the speed feats necessary to reach kabuto. The raiton mask was struggling to catch Shikamaru so i fail to see how it intends to catch someone like Kabuto.

I proved they fly in my last post, not going to do it again >.> Also when was this? Lol hope you realize that was in the anime only my man. In the MANGA the Fuuton heart was able to fly, fire a jutsu

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Then immediately return to Kakuzu's side

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White Rage
Though Kakuzu has no skeletal structure, i fail to see how this jutsu will be ineffective when Kakuzu has Eyes and ears therefore the jutsu takes effect to a certain extent. No matter how you look at this, white rage will disable his sense of sight and hearing putting him at a huge disadvantage

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This doesn't even need to hurt him in order to become effective because this can be used as a form of tactical thinking. While Kakazu is distracted by this, Kabuto is free to act as he pleases and may even take out some hearts.

What's your point? The fact is Kakuzu is free to do what he wants here, he just can't see and hear which he really doesn't need to do. He can still use Domu, and or even jump into the air

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and use his threads to keep him up there where he would still be able to see

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and since his hearts can FLY they will be fine as well, and when this jutsu is outside i wonder how big its range will be.... As it cant be all that big.

If he so decides to send the hearts out to attack Kabuto can simply use his hiding like a mole technique to sneak attack either the hearts or Kakuzu. Since the hearts have never been seen "flying" if they don't need to its quite accurate to assume they will be standing trying to find a way to get to kabuto, in this time the snakes take out at least a mask.

Kakuzu is an intelligent person, and great at analyzing and coming up with battle plans based on what he has seen

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and he's not reckless in the slightest

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(although perhaps it would of better for him to attack there >.>) So he's not going to attack Kabuto when he can't see him, he'll merely try and get out of the blinding light. or find a range where Kabuto won't be able to strike him.

Hydrification
Kabuto will rarely have to use this as it is basically Kabutos version of Domu in this fight, from the speed feats i have given, he wont need to use this very often. This can still be of great use despite Kakuzus raiton mask. Its false to assume Kakazu will have knowledge of this technique and will know what to do straight away, assuming that he did It has been shown that the raiton masks false darkness attack is way too linear for this to affect kabuto

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Its basically two streams of lightning and If kabuto is able to dodge a Susano'o arrow and chidori stream then he can dodge this. But since its linear i fail to see why kabuto would use this just as an raiton attack is struck. Its plain stupidity to do so and kabuto has shown outstanding knowledge on chakra nature and various other departments. He's going to only use this if it comes down to a last resort. Given that this is Manga knowledge Kabuto has knowledge on most if not all of kakazus techniques. He was controlling all of akatsuki undead and had shown us that he had more than sufficient knowledge to operate them and utilize their abilities in order to get the job done.

Alright, i suppose he wouldn't use it when the Raiton attack comes at him, however you overestimate Kabuto's speed and reflexes U_U Note that mostly every-time in his fight against Itachi and Sasuke when he avoided something he needed to utilize the cave and his surroundings

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Note that the DB says its extremely difficult to DODGE, of course Kabuto's sensing would help here and he most likely could dodge it, but as i've said Kakuzu being the intelligent man he is would simply then send his Katon+Fuuton hearts in immediately for the kill, as when not in a cave i don't see Kabuto being able to dodge that as well, when already dodging the Gian. Especially with its major range.

Muki Tensei
Its rather Stupid to think that Kakazu is going to know the weakness of Muki tensei straight away if not at all because he hasn't got knowledge on any of kabutos skill set. He will end up dodging The muki tensei and thinking of more efficient ways to counter it. y this time Kakazu will have already been neutralized.

He won't but most likely Kabuto will try to use this for defense against Kakuzu's Fuuton+Katon, as he's not going to dodge/avoid it. Which Kakuzu will see, and then it will revert back to its normal state which Kakuzu would also see..So its not going to be that hard. Although i'm pretty sure he can't use this when not in that cave...at least not that well

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First off i want to say first of all that in the SFX it says appearing not flying. It is a wild assumption to say that this mask was indeed flyign where it hasn't even been shown in any SFX that the mask indeed to fly so going by the facts they can fly and will also be caught in Muki tensei's wrath. Its because the Fuuton mask had wing like propulsions that it was able to travel a certain distance and this perk comes along with the cliché element air. They have NO SKELETAL STRUCTURE which is why they are able to bend and flex the way they do. We cannot say the mask fly with just assumptions. Feel free to look for yourselves where it is stated or suggested in any Kakuzu SFX where the masks fly. Like i said, regardless of their ability to fly, they have been shown to always land after a certain period of time so their little evasive movement wont last very long.

Ok why the hell is everyone trying to use SFX arguments in this little debate about whether the hearts can or can't fly. (not just you) Please enlighten me on the magical sound that something flying makes? As i'm pretty sure there is no sound attributed to flying only, so when it says "appearing" Which means come into sight; become visible or noticeable, typically without visible agent or apparent cause. Note the without visible cause section or apparent cause...which most likely means that it flew..... As jumping would be a cause. No skeletal structure? wut They weren't bending and flexing in the air, they traveled in a curved trajectory which has nothing to do with the Structure my man, you just can't do it unless your flying. I'm not going to look for hours at SFX as that proves nothing, again you don't make a noise when flying.

Check here for the

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Already debunked that anatomy argument my man, on more then one occasion.

I don't believe attacking the moving object will be the masks first course of action but to evade would be the natural thing to do. The uchiha bros Chose to defend and im sure if they could they would have evaded

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Their first thought was not to attack the moving cave because that would be illogical as rock cannot be harmed. IF Kakuzu does find the weakness it will be some time.

I realize this, however Kabuto would most likely use it for defense anyways which Kakuzu would notice,.

Kumosōkai (spider web unrolling)
Kabuto can use this on both Kakuzu and his hearts to bind them in a inescapable web unless you were to use intense flames. Now again, i wontt belittling the hearts capability but the flames would have to be pretty dam strong to put out this web and like i already said, kabuto has knowledge on the hearts. If he were to trap the heart that is used to create the initial flame (Katon mask) Then that jutsu would be delayed or out of the question since it would be trapped and vulnerable to attacks. That is of courseassuming it has the heat necessary to burn it which im sure it does, hence the reason why kabutos intentions would be to take the Fuuton or Katon mask out with this technique. If he were to constrict any other mask withi this technique then Fuuton and Katon team up and destroy the web.

Wait what makes you think that they would even restrain the hearts? i don't think many people realize this...The hearts are made of threads, which are not going to be able to be touched by physical objects

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Note the wood going right through it I understand that these stick, however sticking to threads is no easy task, and most likely ...no definitely it won't be able to stick to all the threads the heart creatures are made of. Not quite sure what your trying to say here...First of Kabuto was never shown to control Kakuzu...throughout the whole war arc, so you can't just give him knowledge because he revived him. Not to mention Kakuzu's flame jutsu is kind of instant, so i see no reason why this wouldn't halt the threads, not to mention they can fly over the webs

Bone forest/Dance of the Seedling Fern
Pfff, why not. To include bone forest is pretty much rape on Kakuzus part. Since Kabuto can use the forest as a way to get around, its easy for him to use this to take out the hearts and kakuzu. Kakuzu hasn't been the best guy for close calls and evading at the last minute and isnt very good at dealing with sneak attacks

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. Considering the circumstances, Kabuto would annihilate the hearts and Kakuzu by use of Bone forest, they wont know where he's coming from and this gives Kabuto the ample time to get in a strike, most probably killing all the hearts, Since the bone are re-enforced, its going to be pretty dam hard for Kakuzu to break. None of kakuzus jutsu are strong enough to take out the bones.

Wait what? Kabuto can do that? Is there any proof to this? .....Not that it matters, Kakuzu can break the ones around him with a domu fist,

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Which means no ambush attacks....
And his hearts will be flying....

Domu (earth spear)

Since the Full body Domu is basically controled by the Doton Mask, Kabuto can either choose to take this mask out first or give him the old sneak attack. Giving kabutos speed, if kakuzu were to be attack via hiding like a mole or another deceptive technique Kabuto has, he wont be able to react fast enough to put domu on IF he has the Doton mask active. If the mask has been destroyed then he can only use Domu on certain parts of his body which isn't doing him much good. Also if he has this on then his body will be like a rock and he wont be able to move giving kabuto the time to attack him or his hearts. His eyes aren't protected by domu so consider this a weak point.

What says his eye's are not protected by Domu? If they were not then surely this would of protruded through them as he was rolling forward onto Kakuzu's head

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The spikes should of impaled right through them. And besides i've already proven he can use Domu quickly enough during Sneak attacks... Not going to lie was expecting a better counter to domu here.

Other than his masks, this is the best defense Kakuzu has and although i merit him on his destructive power, Its the regions that he lacks in that is his downfall and in that said. Kabuto is the victor

.....................................

 

[DrProof]

I'm going to have to destroy this thread.

 

[Shura]

I'm going to have to destroy this thread.

How did I see this coming?

 

[Zexion~]

I'm going to have to destroy this thread.

0.0

Do what you can, my man while your at it find a way to prove that Kakuzu's hearts can fly...as these people do not seem to get that they do.

 

[Onetimepost2]

Seriously, who even thinks Kakuzu.. who was beat by a Rasen Shuriken would be able to defeat DSM Kabuto o-o

Everybody in nv just about would die from rasen shuriken lol

 

[DrProof]

0.0

Do what you can, my man while your at it find a way to prove that Kakuzu's hearts can fly...as these people do not seem to get that they do.

What? Is the majority ignorant, and not accepting manga given facts that Kakuzu's heart can go aerial? Unbelievable..

Kakuzu's Aerial Capabilities | Exploit #1

Spoiler

Kakuzu's Aerial Capabilities | Exploit #1

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Kakuzu has the ability to take flight however, let me show you something else. Kakuzu's Wind Mask was able to fly solely alone (without Kakuzu assisting it with tendril guidance).

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Here is reappears alongside Kakuzu:

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I can also assure you that its speed is impressive as it appeared to attack Kakashi (he was away from Choji, Ino, and Shikamaru), then moments later after unleashing a large-scale wind-based assault appeared alongside Kakuzu.

Some may argue that the Wind Mask actually had threads attached to it to make it go aerial, but that is false because in the scan below Kakuzu isn't connect to any of his mask, along with the fact that after the break of tendrils connecting all the mask was rejoined into Kakuzu:

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I don't quite agree with the other mask growing wings, although it is plausible people may argue against it due to the fact it wasn't seen before. So another way of introducing an aerial state in which is plausible for the other two mask would be by assistance of Kakuzu's tendrils:

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With the integration of his masks, and his long-range capabilities he would be able to keep his mask aerial making a pseudo flight scenario. Another ability in which Kakuzu is able to do is sling (like a slingshot), and stick to objects sort of like a spiderweb.

Here Kakuzu jumps, and implements a slingshot like motion onto the tree:

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And here Kakuzu uses his long-range capabilities to stick onto multiple trees like a spiderweb:

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With this being said this ability can keep Kakuzu at an aerial state (to stay away from Taijutsu-based users, or ground-based/short-mid ranged Ninjutsu) along with the fact he could integrate his masks to strike at his opponents from a long range distance. This is all plausible due to the integration (fusion) ability the mask possess:

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[Unorthodox]

sasuke solos both

OT i agree

 

[Shura]

What? Is the majority ignorant, and not accepting manga given facts that Kakuzu's heart can go aerial? Unbelievable..

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Kakuzu's Aerial Capabilities | Exploit #1

Spoiler

Kakuzu's Aerial Capabilities | Exploit #1

---

Kakuzu has the ability to take flight however, let me show you something else. Kakuzu's Wind Mask was able to fly solely alone (without Kakuzu assisting it with tendril guidance).

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Here is reappears alongside Kakuzu:

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I can also assure you that its speed is impressive as it appeared to attack Kakashi (he was away from Choji, Ino, and Shikamaru), then moments later after unleashing a large-scale wind-based assault appeared alongside Kakuzu.

Some may argue that the Wind Mask actually had threads attached to it to make it go aerial, but that is false because in the scan below Kakuzu isn't connect to any of his mask, along with the fact that after the break of tendrils connecting all the mask was rejoined into Kakuzu:

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I don't quite agree with the other mask growing wings, although it is plausible people may argue against it due to the fact it wasn't seen before. So another way of introducing an aerial state in which is plausible for the other two mask would be by assistance of Kakuzu's tendrils:

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With the integration of his masks, and his long-range capabilities he would be able to keep his mask aerial making a pseudo flight scenario. Another ability in which Kakuzu is able to do is sling (like a slingshot), and stick to objects sort of like a spiderweb.

Here Kakuzu jumps, and implements a slingshot like motion onto the tree:

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And here Kakuzu uses his long-range capabilities to stick onto multiple trees like a spiderweb:

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With this being said this ability can keep Kakuzu at an aerial state (to stay away from Taijutsu-based users, or ground-based/short-mid ranged Ninjutsu) along with the fact he could integrate his masks to strike at his opponents from a long range distance. This is all plausible due to the integration (fusion) ability the mask possess:

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​

Eh the second part is good, but sadly the first part can be countered because the Masks were jumping before that so people can say that the Masks actually just jumped. :/

 

[DrProof]

Eh the second part is good, but sadly the first part can be countered because the Masks were jumping before that so people can say that the Masks actually just jumped. :/

Not possible, as the detailed Aerial Plausibility theory, strengthens that the masks in the manga scan went airborne.

 

[Shura]

Not possible, as the detailed Aerial Plausibility theory, strengthens that the masks in the manga scan went airborne.

I guess they were flying. In that middle panel we can see them changing direction and then a panel after that, they were gliding / flying throught the air with their limbs spread out.

 

[Prince Charles]

The majority of Dr.proof's arguments come from the fact that kakuzu's masks have the capabilities of flying/hovering and jumping high and basically kakuzu having the distance advantage via aerial via his threads. I though proof said he was going to destroy the thread but reading his post I don't see how kakuzu still beats dsm kabuto U_U

Dr.proof, I suggest you reload your gun and shoot again cus your shots missed.

 

[Shura]

The majority of Dr.proof's arguments come from the fact that kakuzu's masks have the capabilities of flying/hovering and jumping high and basically kakuzu having the distance advantage via aerial via his threads. I though proof said he was going to destroy the thread but reading his post I don't see how kakuzu still beats dsm kabuto U_U

Dr.proof, I suggest you reload your gun and shoot again cus your shots missed.

Charlie pull your shit together.. He was just showing that the Masks can fly.. He wasn't actually countering the whole thread.. -_-

 

[Prince Charles]

Charlie pull your shit together.. He was just showing that the Masks can fly.. He wasn't actually countering the whole thread.. -_-

Makes no difference to me! Just calling it how I see it!

 

[Shura]

Makes no difference to me! Just calling it how I see it!

Will it make you happy if I counter the thread? u_u

 

[Prince Charles]

Will it make you happy if I counter the thread? u_u

Get turnt up.

 

[DrProof]

The majority of Dr.proof's arguments come from the fact that kakuzu's masks have the capabilities of flying/hovering and jumping high and basically kakuzu having the distance advantage via aerial via his threads. I though proof said he was going to destroy the thread but reading his post I don't see how kakuzu still beats dsm kabuto U_U

Dr.proof, I suggest you reload your gun and shoot again cus your shots missed.

... How do I even respond to this? I was proving Kakuzu's mask had aerial capabilities..

 

[Prince Charles]

... How do I even respond to this? I was proving Kakuzu's mask had aerial capabilities..

Like I said, makes no difference to me! just keeping it 3hunna.

 

[Shura]

Get turnt up.

Alright.. Expect a counter from me.. ._.

 

[genii96]

I think manda 2 can solo this