TheTailedSage
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[Debate] Deidara > Kakuzu
- Thread starter Shura
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Zexion~
Kage in the Making 👑
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Where do you come from :|
Today when i get back from school, expect this to all be proven wrong....
illidanson
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Some really good points here and I agree completely.
Don't really see why some people think that Kakuzu is superior...
Don't really see why some people think that Kakuzu is superior...
DemonicAvenger
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Somebody has taken a page from the format of my threads :O
OT: I agree. Though the databook score alone still doesn't prove Deidara is faster. It doesn't take into account Shunshin, though Deidara's speed feats are still stronger than Kakuzu, even on foot.
OT: I agree. Though the databook score alone still doesn't prove Deidara is faster. It doesn't take into account Shunshin, though Deidara's speed feats are still stronger than Kakuzu, even on foot.
Zexion~
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[
Ghosts on the ground? I'm assuimg you mean his heart creatures? Lol, don't know why you refer to them as ghosts...
I'll admit that that DB Score of speed is higher than Kakuzu's...And he does have some good speed feats...However what people don't realize is that Kakuzu has some rather impressive short bursts of speed...
First may i state, the most obvious speed feat, in terms of attack speed
Then of course there's the obvious blitz of Shikamaru
The of course lesser known facts are that he was able to traverse a good 10-11 meters, quick enough to escape from the un-focused eye
Here as well, he was able to move quite fast
His shunsin was similar to that of Jiraiya's as well
Basically Kakuzu isn't as slow as most like to believe
First off are you really trying to suggest this will all happen before Kakuzu releases his masks ....Fine whatever, its pointless anyways... As you seem to think that Kakuzu won't be able to see a giant centipede be released into the ground, When he was able to notice an even subtler movement such as that of Shikamaru handing off a puny flask
From there it wouldn't be that hard from him to reach into the ground with his threads only
Deidara using the Doton: Moguragakure no Jutsu
Wow you must be rather desperate in order to stick to that wording, you know very well that if it comes in contact with ANY solid surface it will explode into a firestorm
Upon contact it turns into a raging firestorm... So really it just needs to contact something solid, however if you truly believe that the magic property of ground somehow triggers the flames, whatever as i have a scan that ends this pitiful argument
"Katon is useless in the air argument"///
Is there any proof that these Clay Clones can even use jutsu, .... But whatever i already have proven that Kakuzu is clearly going to notice a humanoid shape go under ground, and he can then either restrain him with threads, and rip right through it, or fire Raiton through the ground, which would obliterate it, as Gian has been said to pierce through boulders
Actually, the clay clones can't fire off jutsu, as you can see here
*sigh* how is this Clay clone going to pop out of the ground and grab a Heart's leg...when one they are in the air...
Two They are made entirely of threads, That were versatile enough and slippery enough to not get caught by a super enhanced Hand, let alone a puny clay clones
This whole part of your argument is based on fallacy.
The explosion of a Nendo Bunshin
This is such a load of crap? First of need i remind you why Kakashi was able to avoid this attack?
The Data Book even states that this is a very difficult jutsu to see coming and avoid
Also need i remind you of this Mask's speed feat? It was able to fly,
Do i think that it can out speed Deidara in the air? No...However it really doesn't have too...You are surly forgetting that Deidara likes to hover..So all this heart needs to do is burst into the air, and take Arrogant Deidara (who can be easily surprised as well
This is just...Possibly the worst excuse for a reason that i have ever seen...Lmao i'll counter your ass first, the *jump* *Jump* *Jump* Bull shit, clearly they have to take off into the air to remain in the air? And how do they do that? By jumping lmao they don't levitate like pain...They fly, which means they need to get into the air first, As you can see in the scan you posted the hearts in the background are flying in curved segments, meaning that they clearly are not jumping Can you jump in a curved line? no didn't think so..nor can shinobi They clearly can fly, they were in the air for a good two pages...
As for TTS awful arguments, Kakuzu was dead, so they had no intelligent input coming through them. they also can't use Jutsu when Kakuzu is dead..Of course their not going to be flying
As for his little anatomy reason...You do realize Onoki has legs and arms and can still fly as well right?
They Are merely threads with a chakra tube...As you can see here, even Kakuzu when using enough threads can take on some sort of flight
Notice how even when launching an attack
The threads are either light enough so that they can fly/glide in the air for a very long period of time, or Kakuzu runs some chakra through the threads enabling them to remain in the air as they are the things clearly keeping him mid-air
Kakashi coming out alive after Kakuzu's Atsugai attack
Lol Kakuzu's fuuton is still alive, as is Kakuzu's threads who can intercept the birds themselves and since you like using Kakashi as an example so much, even he wasn't able to avoid them
These pathetic C1's are not either.... And as i have proven his hearts can clearly fly.
Lol no, Deidara likes to hover
Anyways, Kakuzu can clearly jump high enough to catch Deidara off guard
Lol wut, His domu was able to React to an ambush Raikiri
Kakuzu can simply hide underground if need be since his threads and a heart have already been shown to do so with a part of his body
What in holy hell leads you to believe that they didn't go in through breathing, he was talking, so clearly he had been opening his mouth and breathing, Lmao nothing at all suggests that they didn't unless your saying that because they were in his arm already? They didn't enter through the respiratory system
As notice what it showed during Tobi's explanation
And what it showed there are similar
Not to mention its clearly not the respiratory system that gets blown up,
Basically Kakuzu KO's Deidara with a quick burst of Jutsu in the air or his threads in the air... As his Fuuton definitely encompasses him on his bird, and his Raiton could be used under it...Barring Deidara's view yet still ripping right through it.
This isn't that much of a fight really, your fallacies and pitiuful attempts to downplay Kakuzu (When you were **** Riding him a few months ago
) Don't play suit here.
DONT **** WITH KAKUZU
[
Ghosts on the ground? I'm assuimg you mean his heart creatures? Lol, don't know why you refer to them as ghosts...
I'll admit that that DB Score of speed is higher than Kakuzu's...And he does have some good speed feats...However what people don't realize is that Kakuzu has some rather impressive short bursts of speed...
First may i state, the most obvious speed feat, in terms of attack speed
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able to completely blitz a sharing-an user from the ground up, Then he was able to reach Kakashi, who had moved back a considerable distance, to evade Kakuzu's attack
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Again doing this against a Sharingan user, whose Eye's are able counter most speed. Then of course there's the obvious blitz of Shikamaru
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The of course lesser known facts are that he was able to traverse a good 10-11 meters, quick enough to escape from the un-focused eye
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
Note the "moves" Sfx again he was able to do so
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Here as well, he was able to move quite fast
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as the Sfx indictae by saying *fast movement* His shunsin was similar to that of Jiraiya's as well
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Basically Kakuzu isn't as slow as most like to believe
First off are you really trying to suggest this will all happen before Kakuzu releases his masks ....Fine whatever, its pointless anyways... As you seem to think that Kakuzu won't be able to see a giant centipede be released into the ground, When he was able to notice an even subtler movement such as that of Shikamaru handing off a puny flask
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A giant centipede being released into the ground without him noticing? Not happening...From there it wouldn't be that hard from him to reach into the ground with his threads only
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and restrain it, or pull it out, either way if it blows up its not doing much, and this buys enough time for Kakuzu's hearts to emerge. The same thing with the doton clone...Deidara using the Doton: Moguragakure no Jutsu
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Deidara versus Kakuzu's Ghosts
Wow you must be rather desperate in order to stick to that wording, you know very well that if it comes in contact with ANY solid surface it will explode into a firestorm
You must be registered for see images
Upon contact it turns into a raging firestorm... So really it just needs to contact something solid, however if you truly believe that the magic property of ground somehow triggers the flames, whatever as i have a scan that ends this pitiful argument
You must be registered for see links
Kakuzu can use this Katon, which clearly doesn't begin on the ground and would end Deidara who would be caught in the radius of the blast, so end this stupid "Katon is useless in the air argument"///
Is there any proof that these Clay Clones can even use jutsu, .... But whatever i already have proven that Kakuzu is clearly going to notice a humanoid shape go under ground, and he can then either restrain him with threads, and rip right through it, or fire Raiton through the ground, which would obliterate it, as Gian has been said to pierce through boulders
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Actually, the clay clones can't fire off jutsu, as you can see here
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The mouths on his hands are not there, and is something he can not replicate with a clone
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*sigh* how is this Clay clone going to pop out of the ground and grab a Heart's leg...when one they are in the air...
Two They are made entirely of threads, That were versatile enough and slippery enough to not get caught by a super enhanced Hand, let alone a puny clay clones
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That this not happening This whole part of your argument is based on fallacy.
The explosion of a Nendo Bunshin
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You must be registered for see images
This is such a load of crap? First of need i remind you why Kakashi was able to avoid this attack?
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As Kakuzu states he saw through it with his Sharingan, which thus allowed him to get a head start and begin avoiding before it was launchedThe Data Book even states that this is a very difficult jutsu to see coming and avoid
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Also need i remind you of this Mask's speed feat? It was able to fly,
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Launch a powerful jutsu, then immediately appear right at Kakuzu's side where it had started
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Do i think that it can out speed Deidara in the air? No...However it really doesn't have too...You are surly forgetting that Deidara likes to hover..So all this heart needs to do is burst into the air, and take Arrogant Deidara (who can be easily surprised as well
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and fire off a Giant blast of wind
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That Deidara literally has no way to defend against, and would surly encompass him, as the DB said it is difficult to anticipate, especially when Deidara has no idea how fast it can get off the ground and fly.... LOL I don't even know what to say about your pitiful attempt to destroy the heart...It was rather...Un-Be-livable thinking Kakuzu can't use the jutsu twice? Especially when it has been shown to do so on a smaller scale
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This is just...Possibly the worst excuse for a reason that i have ever seen...Lmao i'll counter your ass first, the *jump* *Jump* *Jump* Bull shit, clearly they have to take off into the air to remain in the air? And how do they do that? By jumping lmao they don't levitate like pain...They fly, which means they need to get into the air first, As you can see in the scan you posted the hearts in the background are flying in curved segments, meaning that they clearly are not jumping Can you jump in a curved line? no didn't think so..nor can shinobi They clearly can fly, they were in the air for a good two pages...
As for TTS awful arguments, Kakuzu was dead, so they had no intelligent input coming through them. they also can't use Jutsu when Kakuzu is dead..Of course their not going to be flying
As for his little anatomy reason...You do realize Onoki has legs and arms and can still fly as well right?
They Are merely threads with a chakra tube...As you can see here, even Kakuzu when using enough threads can take on some sort of flight
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and remain in the air a very long time Notice how even when launching an attack
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He was literally just floating in the air
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The threads are either light enough so that they can fly/glide in the air for a very long period of time, or Kakuzu runs some chakra through the threads enabling them to remain in the air as they are the things clearly keeping him mid-air
Kakashi coming out alive after Kakuzu's Atsugai attack
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Lol Kakuzu's fuuton is still alive, as is Kakuzu's threads who can intercept the birds themselves and since you like using Kakashi as an example so much, even he wasn't able to avoid them
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These pathetic C1's are not either.... And as i have proven his hearts can clearly fly.
Lol no, Deidara likes to hover
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(Hey look its naruto blindsiding Deidara just like Kakuzu) Except this is even more pathetic Naruto :| Anyways, Kakuzu can clearly jump high enough to catch Deidara off guard
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Then Kill Deidara with his threads, although like i have said earlier, Kakuzu's hearts suffice here.Lol wut, His domu was able to React to an ambush Raikiri
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Which is > Deidara's ambushes in any way possible 0.0Kakuzu can simply hide underground if need be since his threads and a heart have already been shown to do so with a part of his body
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No reason why he can't do so with the rest of his body.What in holy hell leads you to believe that they didn't go in through breathing, he was talking, so clearly he had been opening his mouth and breathing, Lmao nothing at all suggests that they didn't unless your saying that because they were in his arm already? They didn't enter through the respiratory system
As notice what it showed during Tobi's explanation
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And what it showed there are similar
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Not to mention its clearly not the respiratory system that gets blown up,
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You must be registered for see links
They enter through the Resp.System spread through the body. Basically Kakuzu KO's Deidara with a quick burst of Jutsu in the air or his threads in the air... As his Fuuton definitely encompasses him on his bird, and his Raiton could be used under it...Barring Deidara's view yet still ripping right through it.
This isn't that much of a fight really, your fallacies and pitiuful attempts to downplay Kakuzu (When you were **** Riding him a few months ago
) Don't play suit here.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
DONT **** WITH KAKUZU
Last edited:
DemonicAvenger
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----------------------------------------
[
Ghosts on the ground? I'm assuimg you mean his heart creatures? Lol, don't know why you refer to them as ghosts...
I'll admit that that DB Score of speed is higher than Kakuzu's...And he does have some good speed feats...However what people don't realize is that Kakuzu has some rather impressive short bursts of speed...
First may i state, the most obvious speed feat, in terms of attack speedYou must be registered for see linksable to completely blitz a sharing-an user from the ground up, Then he was able to reach Kakashi, who had moved back a considerable distance, to evade Kakuzu's attackYou must be registered for see linksAgain doing this against a Sharingan user, whose Eye's are able counter most speed.
Then of course there's the obvious blitz of ShikamaruYou must be registered for see links
The of course lesser known facts are that he was able to traverse a good 10-11 meters, quick enough to escape from the un-focused eyeYou must be registered for see links
Deidara's Databook speed scoreYou must be registered for see linksNote the "moves" Sfx again he was able to do soYou must be registered for see links
Here as well, he was able to move quite fastYou must be registered for see linksas the Sfx indictae by saying *fast movement*
His shunsin was similar to that of Jiraiya's as wellYou must be registered for see links
Basically Kakuzu isn't as slow as most like to believe
First off are you really trying to suggest this will all happen before Kakuzu releases his masks ....Fine whatever, its pointless anyways... As you seem to think that Kakuzu won't be able to see a giant centipede be released into the ground, When he was able to notice an even subtler movement such as that of Shikamaru handing off a puny flaskYou must be registered for see linksA giant centipede being released into the ground without him noticing? Not happening...
From there it wouldn't be that hard from him to reach into the ground with his threads onlyYou must be registered for see linksand restrain it, or pull it out, either way if it blows up its not doing much, and this buys enough time for Kakuzu's hearts to emerge. The same thing with the doton clone...
Deidara using the Doton: Moguragakure no Jutsu
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Deidara versus Kakuzu's Ghosts
Wow you must be rather desperate in order to stick to that wording, you know very well that if it comes in contact with ANY solid surface it will explode into a firestorm
You must be registered for see images
Upon contact it turns into a raging firestorm... So really it just needs to contact something solid, however if you truly believe that the magic property of ground somehow triggers the flames, whatever as i have a scan that ends this pitiful argumentYou must be registered for see linksKakuzu can use this Katon, which clearly doesn't begin on the ground and would end Deidara who would be caught in the radius of the blast, so end this stupid
"Katon is useless in the air argument"///
Is there any proof that these Clay Clones can even use jutsu, .... But whatever i already have proven that Kakuzu is clearly going to notice a humanoid shape go under ground, and he can then either restrain him with threads, and rip right through it, or fire Raiton through the ground, which would obliterate it, as Gian has been said to pierce through boulders
You must be registered for see images
Actually, the clay clones can't fire off jutsu, as you can see hereYou must be registered for see linksThe mouths on his hands are not there, and is something he can not replicate with a cloneYou must be registered for see linksYou must be registered for see links
*sigh* how is this Clay clone going to pop out of the ground and grab a Heart's leg...when one they are in the air...
Two They are made entirely of threads, That were versatile enough and slippery enough to not get caught by a super enhanced Hand, let alone a puny clay clonesYou must be registered for see linksThat this not happening
This whole part of your argument is based on fallacy.
The explosion of a Nendo Bunshin
You must be registered for see imagesYou must be registered for see images
This is such a load of crap? First of need i remind you why Kakashi was able to avoid this attack?
You must be registered for see linksAs Kakuzu states he saw through it with his Sharingan, which thus allowed him to get a head start and begin avoiding before it was launched
The Data Book even states that this is a very difficult jutsu to see coming and avoid
You must be registered for see images
Also need i remind you of this Mask's speed feat? It was able to fly,You must be registered for see linksLaunch a powerful jutsu, then immediately appear right at Kakuzu's side where it had startedYou must be registered for see links
Do i think that it can out speed Deidara in the air? No...However it really doesn't have too...You are surly forgetting that Deidara likes to hover..So all this heart needs to do is burst into the air, and take Arrogant Deidara (who can be easily surprised as wellYou must be registered for see linksand fire off a Giant blast of windYou must be registered for see linksThat Deidara literally has no way to defend against, and would surly encompass him, as the DB said it is difficult to anticipate, especially when Deidara has no idea how fast it can get off the ground and fly.... LOL I don't even know what to say about your pitiful attempt to destroy the heart...It was rather...Un-Be-livable thinking Kakuzu can't use the jutsu twice? Especially when it has been shown to do so on a smaller scaleYou must be registered for see links
This is just...Possibly the worst excuse for a reason that i have ever seen...Lmao i'll counter your ass first, the *jump* *Jump* *Jump* Bull shit, clearly they have to take off into the air to remain in the air? And how do they do that? By jumping lmao they don't levitate like pain...They fly, which means they need to get into the air first, As you can see in the scan you posted the hearts in the background are flying in curved segments, meaning that they clearly are not jumping Can you jump in a curved line? no didn't think so..nor can shinobi They clearly can fly, they were in the air for a good two pages...
As for TTS awful arguments, Kakuzu was dead, so they had no intelligent input coming through them. they also can't use Jutsu when Kakuzu is dead..Of course their not going to be flying
As for his little anatomy reason...You do realize Onoki has legs and arms and can still fly as well right?
They Are merely threads with a chakra tube...As you can see here, even Kakuzu when using enough threads can take on some sort of flightYou must be registered for see linksand remain in the air a very long time
Notice how even when launching an attackYou must be registered for see linksHe was literally just floating in the airYou must be registered for see links
The threads are either light enough so that they can fly/glide in the air for a very long period of time, or Kakuzu runs some chakra through the threads enabling them to remain in the air as they are the things clearly keeping him mid-air
Kakashi coming out alive after Kakuzu's Atsugai attack
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Lol Kakuzu's fuuton is still alive, as is Kakuzu's threads who can intercept the birds themselves and since you like using Kakashi as an example so much, even he wasn't able to avoid themYou must be registered for see linksYou must be registered for see links
These pathetic C1's are not either.... And as i have proven his hearts can clearly fly.
Lol no, Deidara likes to hoverYou must be registered for see links(Hey look its naruto blindsiding Deidara just like Kakuzu) Except this is even more pathetic Naruto :|
Anyways, Kakuzu can clearly jump high enough to catch Deidara off guardYou must be registered for see linksThen Kill Deidara with his threads, although like i have said earlier, Kakuzu's hearts suffice here.
Lol wut, His domu was able to React to an ambush RaikiriYou must be registered for see linksWhich is > Deidara's ambushes in any way possible 0.0
Kakuzu can simply hide underground if need be since his threads and a heart have already been shown to do so with a part of his bodyYou must be registered for see linksNo reason why he can't do so with the rest of his body.
What in holy hell leads you to believe that they didn't go in through breathing, he was talking, so clearly he had been opening his mouth and breathing, Lmao nothing at all suggests that they didn't unless your saying that because they were in his arm already? They didn't enter through the respiratory system
As notice what it showed during Tobi's explanationYou must be registered for see links
And what it showed there are similarYou must be registered for see links
Not to mention its clearly not the respiratory system that gets blown up,You must be registered for see linksYou must be registered for see linksThey enter through the Resp.System spread through the body.
Basically Kakuzu KO's Deidara with a quick burst of Jutsu in the air or his threads in the air... As his Fuuton definitely encompasses him on his bird, and his Raiton could be used under it...Barring Deidara's view yet still ripping right through it.
This isn't that much of a fight really, your fallacies and pitiuful attempts to downplay Kakuzu (When you were **** Riding him a few months ago
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
DONT **** WITH KAKUZU
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Zexion~
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DemonicAvenger
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He was on a little while ago, but his keyboard died
FYI: Originally I was doing this thread
Zexion~
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He was on a little while ago, but his keyboard died
FYI: Originally I was doing this thread
>.> Well then i would of had to counter you now wouldn't have i
Shura
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Sorry, for the wait. My keyboard died and I had to go and buy a new one. Zzz Anyways, fuk dat.
Lord Deidara Solo's Once Again
Lord Deidara Solo's Once Again
I'm pretty sure that Kishi called them Ghosts on one SFX. >_>
I'll be honest. I'm not sure if you're trying to prove that Kakuzu is faster than Deidara or that he could keep up with him because the second one is kinda obvious. While Deidara indeed is faster than Kakuzu, the old man would still be able to keep up with him, but anyways I'm supposed to counter this as well. Your first point was about Kakashi not able to predict Kakuzu's speed, but that isn't correct. In the first scan you brought up, Kakuzu was supposed to be dead and Kakashi thought so as well. [
Let's be serious here. We only know that Kakuzu saw Shikamaru taking away something from Kakashi, he didn't know that it was a flask or anything. He was alarmed because he knew that it may be something that is a part of their plan. Furthermore, Shikamaru nor Kakashi didn't really give a damn to hide that exchange of theirs. He is not gonna be capable of noticing Deidara leaving a Centipede underground because he hides it behind his backs and it doesn't look like it's big until it goes underground. [
I agree that Zukkoku only needs to make contact with something solid in order to erupt into a raging firestorm but since the Katon Ghost can't fly and there isn't anything else solid than the ground around it, the Zukkoku will need to come into contact with the ground in order to be capable of erupting into a raging firestorm. Your scan doesn't prove anything here since the Zukkoku clearly had contact with the ground. [
Yes, there is proof that these Nendo Bunshin can use Deidara's jutsu. I'll get to that in a bit. Firstly, I'll counter your ''Kakuzu would be capable of seeing it'' argument. No, he would not because all Deidara needs to do is make a dust cloud by making one of his minor bombs explode which would give Deidara cover and time for the Nendo Bunshin to go underground. [
This is incorrect once again because they do not have the ability to fly and that was a completely different situation. Choji wanted to slap them and not grab them. [
Simply incorrect. Kakashi had the ability to predict the attack, sure, but do you realize that the attack was fired at Kakashi from point blank range and that Kakashi was in mid air? [
Kakuzu's Fuuton isn't alive since it would be destroyed by Deidara before this. Please do remember that Kakashi was close to Kakuzu and the Fuuton Ghost would be in the air while Kakuzu would not so no intercepting the birds. And you haven't proven that the Ghosts can fly. It's as simple as that.
And, what a surprise! It's a Nendo Bunshin! [
Deidara already shown the ability to react to attacks like that since he reacted to Sasuke's attack [Sasuke is faster than Kakuzu] in the last minute. Kakuzu won't catch him off guard. Not since Sasuke couldn't.
Domu was activated before that due to Choji's attack. C'mon Zexion. Seriously?
Sure, he can do that, but that won't save him. We have already seen that RasenShuriken which's destructive capability isn't really as great as Deidara's managed to destroy a good portion of the ground. [
Let me ask. Do you consider Sasuke to be an idiot [No hating] ? Sasuke had knowledge on the C4's nano bombs so he knew not to breathe them in so why exactly would Sasuke breathe them in and then proceed to use up Chakra on a Chidori which would damage his body as he himself stated [
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I'm pretty sure that Kishi called them Ghosts on one SFX. >_>
I'll be honest. I'm not sure if you're trying to prove that Kakuzu is faster than Deidara or that he could keep up with him because the second one is kinda obvious. While Deidara indeed is faster than Kakuzu, the old man would still be able to keep up with him, but anyways I'm supposed to counter this as well. Your first point was about Kakashi not able to predict Kakuzu's speed, but that isn't correct. In the first scan you brought up, Kakuzu was supposed to be dead and Kakashi thought so as well. [
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] Furthermore, his eyes were focused on Hidan and not on Kakuzu. [
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] In order for his Sharingan to predict Kakuzu's movement, his eyes would have needed to be focused on him and not on Hidan. [
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] Kakashi wasn't able to predict Kakuzu's movement and got surprised because he thought that Kakuzu was dead and his eyes were focused on Hidan. In the second scan, Kakashi failed to predict Kakuzu's movement because once again, he couldn't focus his eyes on Kakuzu due to the smoke created by the clash of Kakuzu's Zukkoku and Kakashi's Suiton. [
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] Hence why he was surprised to see Kakuzu behind him. [
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] As for your Shikamaru point, that's not really what you could call a blitz. Shikamaru had no idea of his presence until he appeared behind him and that's why he was alarmed. Not to mention that he was able to react to Kakuzu's attack which kinda doesn't make Kakuzu's speed look good. [
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] Next, you bring up Hidan and let me just say that you kinda countered that point yourself right there. Hidan wasn't focused at all and he had one of his eyes half way closed [
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] which doesn't make that Kakuzu's speed feat impressive to be honest. To move onto your Asuma point, you have to realize that Asuma's leg was already damaged by Hidan [
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] so he couldn't really move hence why he wasn't able to react to Kakuzu's speed. When his leg was alright, he was capable of reacting to Kakuzu's speed. [
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] Kakuzu was even alarmed. Your final point here was about Kakuzu's speed feats when he was about to leave, but let's be honest. Not even fodders like Izumo and Kotetsu were shocked at his movement here so that might not even be that much impressive, but alright.Let's be serious here. We only know that Kakuzu saw Shikamaru taking away something from Kakashi, he didn't know that it was a flask or anything. He was alarmed because he knew that it may be something that is a part of their plan. Furthermore, Shikamaru nor Kakashi didn't really give a damn to hide that exchange of theirs. He is not gonna be capable of noticing Deidara leaving a Centipede underground because he hides it behind his backs and it doesn't look like it's big until it goes underground. [
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] Deidara most likely made it expand while it was underground. Even if by some miracle, Kakuzu knows about it, he surely won't be able to know where the Centipede is due to him not having the Sharingan which he would need in order to see the underground Centipede. [
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] He won't be capable of seeing it's position while it is underground and he won't be able to pull it out. And the Centipede and the Nendo Bunshin would be capable of taking Kakuzu down while he is releasing the Ghosts due to the fact that he can't really do that fast. [
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] The Ghosts won't be capable of escaping his explosion that fast so it's game over.I agree that Zukkoku only needs to make contact with something solid in order to erupt into a raging firestorm but since the Katon Ghost can't fly and there isn't anything else solid than the ground around it, the Zukkoku will need to come into contact with the ground in order to be capable of erupting into a raging firestorm. Your scan doesn't prove anything here since the Zukkoku clearly had contact with the ground. [
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] Zukkoku can't be used against aerial opponents. It's as simple as that.Yes, there is proof that these Nendo Bunshin can use Deidara's jutsu. I'll get to that in a bit. Firstly, I'll counter your ''Kakuzu would be capable of seeing it'' argument. No, he would not because all Deidara needs to do is make a dust cloud by making one of his minor bombs explode which would give Deidara cover and time for the Nendo Bunshin to go underground. [
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->
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] And once again you claim how Kakuzu would be capable of seeing and knowing Deidara's position while he is underground when Sasuke needed the Sharingan for that. Kakuzu doesn't possess a Sharingan. Next, you bring up some scans and say how Deidara's Nendo Bunshin has no mouths on his palms and that he can't fire off jutsu which is incorrect. Let me establish why Deidara's Nendo Bunshin can use jutsu. You see that Deidara's Nendo Bunshin does indeed have mouths on his palms [
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] and that the only reason why we didn't see them in your scans was the fact that they were closed [making them look like a simple line] and covered by a shadow. You could imply how that isn't the real Deidara, but that isn't correct since we know that the real Deidara has been hiding himself in the Clay Bird [
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] so he replaced himself with a Nendo Bunshin while he was in the smoke created by his explosives. [
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->
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] Now to prove that Nendo Bunshin can use jutsu. Well, Deidara's Nendo Bunshin has already shown the ability to use C4 [
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] and in Deidara's battle against Kakashi, the Bunshin also used the C1 [I assume it's the C1] explosion. [
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]This is incorrect once again because they do not have the ability to fly and that was a completely different situation. Choji wanted to slap them and not grab them. [
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] Not only that, but the Nendo Bunshin doesn't even need to grab it's leg, it just needs to explode once it pokes out from beneath it and it will kill the Ghost.Simply incorrect. Kakashi had the ability to predict the attack, sure, but do you realize that the attack was fired at Kakashi from point blank range and that Kakashi was in mid air? [
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] And yet Kakashi managed to evade it. If that attack was as strong and as fast as you claim to be then even if Kakashi had a Sharingan, he shouldn't have been able to escape the attack. Deidara will simply fly away as soon as he sees the Ghost opening it's mouths and releasing something. Let's not even forget that Deidara would most likely be the first one to fire off his C1 bird at the Fuuton Ghost which would make it use Atsugai in order to blow away Deidara's attack and that will give Deidara info on it. Not to forget that even if by some miracle Deidara and his C1 bird got hit by it, Deidara would quickly react to it [
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] and jump to the air [
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] from the bird and create a new one [
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] in order to escape the attack. The Databook states how Sasuke's speed is god like so that little statement is not gonna impress me. Did you just state that Deidara likes to hover and then shown me a scan of Deidara getting punched by Naruto while he was standing on a tree? Nigga wut. I assume that you linked me to the wrong scan, but Deidara clearly wouldn't hover against Kakuzu when he sees that the Fuuton Ghost can fly and all that stuff since Deidara clearly likes to keep it safe in a battle as seen when he constantly uses Nendo Bunshin in order to escape fatal attacks from his opponents. And that Ghost's speed feat isn't that good compared to Deidara since Kakuzu wasn't really that far away. And you say my attempt to destroy the Fuuton Ghost is pitiful and then you brought up something like that? The Ghost clearly can't use one jutsu after one jutsu since it needs time to charge up the attack [
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] and after using it once, it needs to recharge from the just used attack [
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] hence why Kakuzu wasn't capable of just blowing away the original Naruto when he attacked him. [
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] You can even see him say ''Shit'' to himself. The Ghost will get destroyed. No, Zexion. They cannot fly. There is absolutely nothing to prove that they were flying once they jumped. We only know that they jumped and that's it which makes aids my argument. As for TheTailedSage's argument. Did you just try to compare the Ghosts with a human being? Do you realize that Ohnoki has legs and arms because he is a human being that has other meanings besides fighting. He needs arm to grab stuff while he needs his legs to walk out of a battle. Kakuzu's Ghosts are created for battle only and they don't have other meanings. TTS is correct. The legs and arms aren't there to make them look badass. If they could fly then there was no reason for Kakuzu to create their legs and arms. Furthermore, only the Fuuton Ghost has wings while the others don't so if they all could fly without wings like you state then why give the Fuuton Ghost wings? This clearly isn't in order to make it look badass. It's the only heart with wings which means that it's the only Ghost that can fly. Then you go and state how Kakuzu was flying or levitating or whatever. No that isn't true. In the first scan, he simply jumped and in the second scan, he was holding his weight in the air with his tendrils which were on the ground. [
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]Kakuzu's Fuuton isn't alive since it would be destroyed by Deidara before this. Please do remember that Kakashi was close to Kakuzu and the Fuuton Ghost would be in the air while Kakuzu would not so no intercepting the birds. And you haven't proven that the Ghosts can fly. It's as simple as that.
And, what a surprise! It's a Nendo Bunshin! [
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] Dayumn. 'Dat Deidara. And once again that ''Deidara likes to hover'' statement and then you once again brought up that scan so you didn't link me to the wrong scan? Nigga wut.Deidara already shown the ability to react to attacks like that since he reacted to Sasuke's attack [Sasuke is faster than Kakuzu] in the last minute. Kakuzu won't catch him off guard. Not since Sasuke couldn't.
Domu was activated before that due to Choji's attack. C'mon Zexion. Seriously?
Sure, he can do that, but that won't save him. We have already seen that RasenShuriken which's destructive capability isn't really as great as Deidara's managed to destroy a good portion of the ground. [
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] Let's be realistic. That won't save Kakuzu.Let me ask. Do you consider Sasuke to be an idiot [No hating] ? Sasuke had knowledge on the C4's nano bombs so he knew not to breathe them in so why exactly would Sasuke breathe them in and then proceed to use up Chakra on a Chidori which would damage his body as he himself stated [
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] instead of just holding his breath? The bombs entered his body and he couldn't do anything. Furthermore if you are so stubborn to believe that the bombs entered his body just because he was talking then let me ask. Do you expect Kakuzu not to say a word despite the fact that shinobi talk all the time in a battle and despite the fact that Kakuzu has no intel on the C4 nano bombs?Basically Kakuzu KO's Deidara with a quick burst of Jutsu in the air or his threads in the air... As his Fuuton definitely encompasses him on his bird, and his Raiton could be used under it...Barring Deidara's view yet still ripping right through it.
This isn't that much of a fight really, your fallacies and pitiuful attempts to downplay Kakuzu (When you were **** Riding him a few months ago
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DONT **** WITH KAKUZU
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Zexion~
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Oh god...I cant counter for a while again, however that Katon scan...It clearly is firing from above the ground first.... Lmao It clearly doesn't stem from the ground, it stems from the mask....
The clay clone can use C4 because it doesn't require the mouths in his hands...Lmao you didn't help your cause there,
God you use way too much speculation
Your so wrong, i can't not start countering it now....
The clay clone can use C4 because it doesn't require the mouths in his hands...Lmao you didn't help your cause there,
God you use way too much speculation
Your so wrong, i can't not start countering it now....
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Shura
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It does, but it obviously requires contact with the ground in order for it to erupt into a raging firestorm. Otherwise it would remain a tiny fire ball that wouldn't even be able to hit a fodder.
I posted a scan of Deidara's Nendo Bunshin with the mouths on his palms. -_-
''Kakuzu doesn't breathe'' And then you tell me that I use speculation? Lol
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Zexion~
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Well they clearly are alive, so they don't fit the def. of Ghost...
Lol as you kind of said, it doesn't matter if he thought Kakuzu was dead or not, if his eyes were able to notice, the Pre-cog should of been in effect....Anyways as for your other incorrect point, look at how Kakuzu hit him
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in front of Kakashi, so clearly he had to traverse into Kakashi's eye-sight which means that the Pre-cog should of been in effect...End result being his speed outclassed the Sharingan, end of discussion ,What...Are....You..Saying, first off realize that SMOKE is not created when Water is evaporated quickly, its steam...Which really does not impair your vision AT ALL
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A
Lol, He had to harden his fist for Domu, so please realize how much that slows Kakuzu down...Then correct the ignorance in your statement and come back and try to counter that
Bro i know your not stupid...I really do, who the hell brought up Hidan. He clearly simply vanishes from the point, and that scan clearly wasn't illustrating Hidan's point of view, as from his position he would not of been able to see the top of the collection office...
I never said the feat was based on Asuma's inability to act, it was due to the fact that he traveled a goof 15 meters in about a scan, and he clearly did it quickly due to the texture of Kakuzu's image showcasing how fast he moved.
Lets be serious here, this whole thing is stupid as the exchange between Shikamaru and Kakashi, happened when Kakuzu could only see their backs as well and he still new something was going on...
He doesn't need to see the centipedes position, if its coming at Kakuzu and if it is in the same place its going to not be that hard to grab it with Kakuzu's near limitless threads. Now for Deidara to control its movement in such a fashion..Would mean his control of other things would be limited and he could fall victim to a blast of Kakuzu's jutsu.
So your saying Deidara, is going to create a clay bird, and a clay centipede/clone before Then initiate this horrid plan before Kakuzu's hearts are spawned? Lmao yeah alright. Thats just fool's logic. Nothing else to say here
Oh god, bro clearly its spawning from the mask, and then traveling through the air, simply because it encompassed the ground doesn't mean it couldn't be used mid-air? Did you see a small fireball being dropped? No and it clearly has a different shape and form then Zukkaku...So clearly Katon can still be used in the air. End of Story.
[
Lol, notice how both the jutsu the Clay clone used, was that of exploding the clone itself, not actually utilize Deidara's C1 or C2 jutsu... And about the tounge thing, i suppose you got me, it doesn't really matter much as his clones are fodder.
Anyways i don't see why your using the clay clone so much, you realize that Deidara can't simply use it freely, it requires heavy concentration, hence why he never used it as a sort of way to gain a numbers advantage, both times he used it he had to conceal himself from the opponent as to not be caught because most likely he wouldn't be able to do much...Again not that it matters, regardless of if its a clone or not Kakuzu has shown to be able to create multiple Gian...So it won't be that hard to dispose of them...As one bolt of lightning disables them completely.
IT DOESN'T MATTER IF KAKUZU CAN SENSE THE BOMBS UNDERGROUND OR NOT...What don't you get, If they have to come near him to explode he's not just going to sit there, he's going to simply knead thread's through the ground in a circular position protecting him from all and any bombs that try to get near
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I'm not saying they have to be as massive as his long range mode's either...
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amount in all directions would suffice..Give up on this ground attack bull shit, there's a reason Deidara never used it all that much...It leaves him vulnerable as he has to sit there controlling there movements which limits what he can do above ground, whereas Kakuzu can protect himself from these pitiful attacks and attack Deidara with his hearts who can fly...Your pitiful attempt at a counter is just that...Pitiful.Says who? Sasuke was able to avoid an explosion like this
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By simply moving backwards...and one like this
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easily as well, no reason that with Flight the hearts could not do this as well...Honestly Kishi overdrew the bombs, They don't have all that much power with them. Not to mention we all know how fast Gian is..It could possible diffuse the bombs immediately when they pop up And No handsigns are required here, so don't go spouting bs
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Fool fool fool, Do you not know what Pre-cog does, he is able to see it coming and get a head start on avoiding it. Which is what happened, Besides look at the attack
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It only attacked in one direction as everything behind it was completely unscathed, which means Being Point Blank was kind of an advantage for Kakashi, as he simply needed to duck under the mask and he would have avoided the attack ...which thanks to pre-cog he was able to do...Deidara who you say would be flying AWAY from the heart won't be in such good luck...So he dies..Again End of story, he's not overflying the jutsu in time.Why the hell can't he attack the C1 bird and Deidara at the same time, its clearly an AoE attack...You make absolutely no sense here, Deidara throwing the bird only means he won't be able to fly away...So he dies
What in gods name...You claim its pitiful and then leave it at that? Deidara was blindsided by Naruto in the air just like Kakuzu...End of story ..I'm assuming your lack of words proves that you have no idea what to say, and you ended up sounding foolish,
STOP MAKING SHIT UP, Kakuzu clearly doesn't have to charge shit, its a pointless assumption you made...Kakuzu couldn't use it because the mask was on the side of him, and Naruto cam up behind him genius.. GOD you make no sense way too much.. Fuuton kills Deidara deal with it.
Bull shit..
Your both idiots, Kakuzu gave them legs and arms because so they can ****ing run and walk? As you said...He's not just going to create things that can't move on the ground...At the end of the day, You have no evidence that show that they can't fly....Except their body structure... Which doesn't even make any sense...As Deidara's clay birds should clearly not be able to fly either, as their made of clay :| Which we all know does not create good flight tools...So how is he able to? Because of his chakra...Not the ****ing structure or material...God you sound so ignorant, another fact is that clearly we see them curving in the air...Now, people clearly can't move like that when their jumping...AKA- Their ****ing flying...Admit you were wrong for once and get over it...
Lmao so your going to say Tendrils created a coll-um like mass that supported him? Lmao thinking that threads can support a human...I suppose that's plausible however thats an extreme feat for the threads then...Still doesn't change the fact that his hearts fly.
More like you haven't proven that they can't...Using anatomy in a fight with a rag-doll is laughable at best.
What a surprise its a substitution jutsu idiot... lol learn your basics.
[F
Lets look at the facts....Kakuzu caught Kakashi who was faster then Hebi Sasuke..>Don't go spouting that he wasn't because DB and Feats agree...So his threads clearly are able to move quicker then Sasuke yes...
They kill Deiadara
Lmao WRONG
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What do we see here? ...Kakuzu moving pretty damn clearly...Now what do we know about Domu? Yep that's right .... You can't move when using it and he clearly did...AKA He didn't actually have it on..It was an artist mistake..just like the times Kishi forget to color in the skin for Domu.What the...Rasenshurikan>>C1 and C2's destructive power, this whole thing is idiotic ...extremely.
Pure speculation...The facts are, Kakuzu doesn't breath.... He has a mask as well that covers his mouth even when he talks...
Bombs are not entering his body. Even if they do realize that Deidara utilizes the same Handsign when weaving signs for his bombs that Kakuzu does for Domu..
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So he knows that their earth style...AKA he can counter all of them
paratise
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lel
OT: Nice read.
I esp. liked the part which showed Kakuzu getting owned by Nardo clones.
Shura
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Well Kishi called them ''Ghosts'', but then again Kishi isn't exactly what you could call ''intelligent''. (._. )
No. Not at all. Kakuzu managed to make that move on Kakashi just because like I stated, Kakashi's eyes weren't on Kakuzu, they were on Hidan. Furthermore, Kakashi thought Kakuzu was dead. He was surprised that Kakuzu kicked him because he thought Kakuzu was dead. He didn't expect it at all. That's hardly a blitz.
My apologies. I meant to say steam. My bad. Anyways, actually when we look at it better, the fire was covering Kakuzu's movements and Kakashi had his eyes focused on the fire. [
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] It may or may not be impressive, but that's not gonna help him blitz Deidara or anything like that.A
Lol, He had to harden his fist for Domu, so please realize how much that slows Kakuzu down...Then correct the ignorance in your statement and come back and try to counter that
There isn't a single scan where we have seen that hardening his fist affected his speed that much. Furthermore, he hardened his fist when he appeared behind Shikamaru and that same Shikamaru reacted to his attack.
I'm pretty sure you brought up Hidan, but I might be wrong. It doesn't matter anyways.
While this is true, you see sometimes it doesn't matter how much a character travelled if an another shinobi of his or her level has good enough speed feats to react to it. The point is that even if he travelled that much, Deidara won't have much trouble with that speed considering that he is a bit faster than him.
Not really. All Kakuzu saw was Shikamaru taking something from Kakashi and Kakuzu was alarmed because the first thing that went throught his mind was that it's something that will be a potential trouble for him. Kakuzu won't even know that the Centipede is underground and Deidara surely won't make it just go straight at him if Kakuzu has threads that can pull it out. The fact is that Kakuzu doesn't know the Centipede's location underground and that's it. He can't pull it out if he doesn't even know where it is.
No, I didn't say that at all. The Centipede tactic would be used while Deidara is on the ground to try and finish off Kakuzu right there, however, if it fails then the Nendo Bunshin tactic will come into play. Deidara will leave the Bunshin underground and then proceed to escape on a Clay Bird to the skies.
No, Zexion. It's spawning from the Ghost, but that doesn't mean anything. It can be used against aerial targets, but do you realize that in order for it to become a large fire instead of a tiny fire ball that can't even hit a fodder it needs to come into contact with the ground. [
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]I guess you could say that about the self sacrificing bomb technique the Nendo Bunshin used against Kakashi, but you can't say that for C4 since it needs to be molded and all that stuff. Since the Nendo Bunshin can use C4, I don't see why they shouldn't be able to use lower levels such as C1 or C2.
I don't see why I shouldn't use Nendo Bunshin. They are a part of Deidara's arsenal. And Gian won't work Zexy. It's not that good. You see Kakashi was capable of recovering from Atsugai and then was capable of intercepting Gian before it hit Shikamaru and Choji. [
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->
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] All Deidara has to do is evade them in the same way he evaded Gaara's sand [
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] since Gian is linear really. Let's not even forget to mention how Deidara evaded Sasuke's attack [
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] and Sasuke as far as we know is faster than Gian.Stop getting butthurt. And it does matter since Kakuzu wouldn't even know about them. Furthermore how do we know that Kakuzu's threads indeed can go underground? I seriously doubt it because there is a reason Kakuzu made his whole arm instead of just a clump of threads and the heart to go underground. The tendrils themselves don't possess the ability to tear throught the ground because they don't have a strong enough piercing capability to tear throught the ground [Don't even think about bringing up the scan of Kakuzu's tendrils piercing throught Naruto's body]. We can conclude that by looking at when Kakuzu used massive amounts of thread to attack Naruto and he swinged them at Naruto like huge spears. [
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] The best they did to the ground was make a crack on the surface and they didn't actually go deep down so why would a lot smaller amount of threads be capable of tearing throught the ground and going deeper? They can't. What furthermore proves my point is the fact that Kakuzu's arm came out first when it tore throught the ground and then the tendrils followed. [
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] We also know that Kakuzu left a heart within the tendrils and that heart is most likely the Doton heart so by abusing the Doton Domu, the hand was capable of tearing throught the ground and going deep underground. Kakuzu has only one Doton heart and since he doesn't know the correct position of Deidara's explosives then he won't be capable of taking it out without the ability to cover all his sides. Then you say how it takes concentration from Deidara in order to make bombs travel underground which is completely false since we have seen him use a bomb while making the Centipede travel throught the ground at the same time. [
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] Don't even think about using ''Clay can tear throught ground so Kakuzu's tendrils will be able to do so as well'' because one of the elements used on this clay is no other than Doton.Nigga did you just compare Sasuke's speed with Kakuzu and his masks' speed? Really? Sasuke is a lot faster than them furthermore he has pre cog. And yet he was shocked by the speed of Deidara's bombs. [
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] And don't even think about saying that Kakuzu would be capable of reacting to Deidara's Bunshin suddenly poking out from beneath and detonating because he didn't seem to be capable of reacting to Izumo and Kotetsu suddenly appearing behind him and he even heard / saw them before they sliced him open hence why he was alarmed before that. [
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] Not to mention that the Raiton Mask was charging up Gian in the top right panel first. [
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]Kakashi was in mid air. He had no solid surface on which he could actually stand on escape from the attack and yet he escaped it and he was clearly in the attack's radius so your ''He simply ducked down'' point doesn't work here. [
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] Not to mention that Hidan was between them so he wasn't exactly at point blank range [Close tho'] and furthermore the Ghost released Atsugai on them. There is no way that Kakashi would have simply avoided it by ducking.No just no. Atsugai would hit the bird first and since Deidara reacted to Sasuke's attack and jumped that high against Gaara he would simply jump away from all of it in order to evade the attack and create a new bird for himself.
No. You do realize that Deidara usually underrates the opponents that he thinks of as ''brats'' and let's not even forget that Deidara tricked Naruto by replacing himself with a Nendo Bunshin. [
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] Furthermore Deidara was focused on Kakashi [
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] and this won't happen here since he would only be focused on Kakuzu and his hearts. Furthermore in that Kakashi scan you could clearly see Kakashi telling Deidara ''You let your guard down.'' and this won't happen here due to the fact that he would be facing Kakuzu. Someone who is both older than him and an another Akatsuki member.No. You can clearly see the Mask charging up the Fuuton and then later it had a cooldown time limit. And no your ''Naruto came behind him'' argument won't work since Kakuzu turned around to face him and his masks were facing Naruto. [
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] Kakuzu couldn't use Zukkoku nor Atsugai, it's as simple as that.Denial.
No. They cannot fly. I wasn't wrong since every damn scan you assumed they were flying, they jumped and the SFX said so. There is no actual proof that they were flying while I have proof that they were jumping [SFX: Jump] and not to mention that once again if this was the case then there was no need to give the Fuuton Ghost wings.
Anatomy can be used here since Kakuzu is still human. So far the databook stated that only Sasori cannot be considered human any longer. Only in Sasori's case someone won't be able to use anatomy.
Naruto got tricked by Deidara. Kakuzu got tricked by Naruto. Stay mad.
A fatigued Kakashi is faster than Hebi Sasuke? Nah. And in the Databook, Kakashi has the same speed as Sasuke and the databook also stated how Sasuke has god like speed so it kinda implies that Sasuke is faster. Kakuzu's threads won't do anything here. Especially since Deidara is a long range fighter.
Excuse me? Kakuzu had full body Domu on and he wasn't moving at all. I don't know where you saw him move in that scan. Kakuzu had Domu activated that whole time. The skin color proves it. Kishi didn't simply ''forget'' to change the color.
Do you realize that we were talking about C3 and not C1 nor C2? C3 is more destructive.
Lmao. Nigga did you just say ''pure speculation'' as a counter to me and then proceeded to say ''Kakuzu doesn't breathe.'' Gotta love the irony in that statement. Kakuzu does breathe and don't even try to bring up Sasori to this because the guy managed to transfer his whole mind into a heart and he doesn't have an actual blood circulating system. When he transfered the heart to his puppet body, his heart still had blood in it and that is the same blood that came out of his heart when Chiyo pierced it. Let's not even mention how the databook stated that Sasori can't be considered Human.
And no, the mask won't help him because it would get destroyed by one of Deidara's previous bombs since Kakuzu would need to use Domu to tank them and it doesn't affect his clothes so they'll get ruined by Deidara's explosives. Also Sasuke needed the Sharingan in order to see Deidara using that hand seal from that distance. Kakuzu doesn't have it.
Thanks and I'm countering his argument right now. I don't know why he always gets so angry when I say that Deidara or Sasori can beat Kakuzu.
Kakuzu got owned by base naruto lol Deidara got owned by 0tk Naruto, do the math
And Deidara was a clay clone without any arms.
Zexion~
Kage in the Making 👑
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Hope you all know i'm not serious when I insult people lol,
So don't take it up the butt ^_^ Will counter tommorow, i've got a debate to finish
*sigh* look at his arms, they clearly move...And his head moves as well U_U
Not to mention his body clearly shifts...
**** it, your wrongness makes me want to counter now >.>
So don't take it up the butt ^_^ Will counter tommorow, i've got a debate to finish
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*sigh* look at his arms, they clearly move...And his head moves as well U_U
Not to mention his body clearly shifts...
**** it, your wrongness makes me want to counter now >.>
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