Sasuke and itachi

[Wolfus]

Hi guys. I'm making this thread because of a similar thread that was closed. I ask the mods to tolerate this thread and only close or delete it if people start to insult each other.
I'm doing this because I have some arguments, and I'd like to debate, not to make war.
So, if you're going to repply, use evidences and logic to suport your idea. Otherwise, please dont reply.

Lets begin:
Sasuke has more chakra than itachi and an EMS. So, sasuke can keep susano for longer, and he wont have the negative effects of using it.
Sasuke has a more powerful amaterasu, and PS. 3 tomoe sasuke withstood tsukuyomi. Now he has an EMS.
Now, all itachi has left is totsuka and yata.
Susanoo is massive form of chakra. There is nothing to prove that totsuka could pierce PS, that has impressive defensive skills. Even if it did, sasuke could just activate it again.
Now, yata. All it has are hypes. But OK. Yata can change the properties, the nature of an atack in order to deflect it. 2 atacks with different properties hitting yata in the same time would be enough for one to pass through it. As the properties are different, yata would be able to change only one at a time, as changing 2 at the same time would be just like looking to the right and to the left at the same time.
Sasuke can counter itachi's abilities, but itachi cant counter all of sasuke's.
Both have great speed, taijutsu, and inteligence. Itachi has more inteligence, but sasuke has more power, and he isnt dumb either.
Izanami would only work if sasuke was in denial of who he was, which is not true. Itachi no longer has KA.

This is it, I hope I made myself clear. Please dont start any fights here. Use logic and build good arguments. Thanks for the attention, and thanks in advance, mods(considering that you will consider my request)

 

[-Sky-]

Even in their part 2 fight, it was clear Itachi was more advanced in Taijutsu, and various ninja skills. However, Sasuke was very cunning and made everything work to his advantage.

Sasuke is the favorite, but I wouldn't count Itachi out. We never know what's up his sleeve

 

[foxyladyland]

Itachi doesn't NEED Totsuka or Yata in OP battles against OP opponents..

these threads and questions wouldn't be made if Itachi watchers would actually analyze his prowess in full.

Itachi could have amateratsu'd Sasuke's face after he sealed Orochimaru in Totsuka.. but he didn't..

Itachi could have Amateratsu'd Kabuto then Sealed him quickly with Totsuka.. Itachi is really that good. AMAZING! :itachi:

 

[TheSageOfNinetails]

You make valid points, but ruined the argument by saying Itachi has more intelligence than Sasuke.

If Itachi outsmarts Sasuke, brute force will play no effect in battle.

A battle between two Uchihas is always a battle of whits.

Careful planning will beat brute force 10/10 times.

Black Zetsu even said " a person with a shuriken can be beaten by a mere pebble, if thrown by a master".

No matter how many OP abilities you give Sasuke, if itachi outsmarts him, Sasuke will always lose.

Every jutsu has a weakness, and Itachi is more than capable of analyzing any jutsu, and taking advantage of its weakness.

Itachi knows the weaknesses for Sussano'o, Amaterasu, etc. Of uchiha jutsu aince he either posses them himself, or has taken the time to study in great detail.

Intelligence > Brute force.

 

[LO3]

Even in their part 2 fight, it was clear Itachi was more advanced in Taijutsu, and various ninja skills. However, Sasuke was very cunning and made everything work to his advantage.

Sasuke is the favorite, but I wouldn't count Itachi out. We never know what's up his sleeve

Wow if you're saying that Sasuke is more cunning due to that fight, when he was actually manipulated the whole time by Itachi, who staged the whole thing...

 

[-Sky-]

Wow if you're saying that Sasuke is more cunning due to that fight, when he was actually manipulated the whole time by Itachi, who staged the whole thing...

Please. The fight was real, Itachi created the situation.

And please, go back and read my post. You'll find I never said he was more cunning. Sasuke is very intelligent himself. He's not Itachi smart, but he has a wider, more powerful arsenal than Itachi. Itachi only wins through Totsuka and Yata, which are better than anything Sasuke has.

 

[Smd]

your one to talk. you get mad at me when i dont agree with your basied thoughts.


Op- no itachi can counter

 

[Wolfus]

your one to talk. you get mad at me when i dont agree with your basied thoughts.


Op- no itachi can counter

It's the oposite. You're the first to insult people when disproved. You dont use logic in your arguments, and you state your opinions like they were facts.

Care to explain how itachi can counter all of sasuke's abilities.

 

[Wolfus]

your one to talk. you get mad at me when i dont agree with your basied thoughts.


Op- no itachi can counter

It's the oposite. You're the first to insult people when disproved. You dont use logic in your arguments, and you state your opinions like they were facts.

Care to explain how itachi can counter all of sasuke's abilities.

 

[Xāvî1]

Hmmp very difficult. But still solo king Itachi solos

 

[Wolfus]

You make valid points, but ruined the argument by saying Itachi has more intelligence than Sasuke.

If Itachi outsmarts Sasuke, brute force will play no effect in battle.

A battle between two Uchihas is always a battle of whits.

Careful planning will beat brute force 10/10 times.

Black Zetsu even said " a person with a shuriken can be beaten by a mere pebble, if thrown by a master".

No matter how many OP abilities you give Sasuke, if itachi outsmarts him, Sasuke will always lose.

Every jutsu has a weakness, and Itachi is more than capable of analyzing any jutsu, and taking advantage of its weakness.

Itachi knows the weaknesses for Sussano'o, Amaterasu, etc. Of uchiha jutsu aince he either posses them himself, or has taken the time to study in great detail.

Intelligence > Brute force.

I agree that intelligence> brute force. Inteligence has a important role in a fight. However, sasuke is not dumb. In a fight, power and skills are also imporant.
Itachi cana analyse the techniques and find their weakness, but so can sasuke. Even if itachi finds the weakness, it doesnt mean he will have the power/skill to take advantage od that weakness.
Sasuke's powers are above itachi's, and sasuke has other advantages, as I explained.

And it's not always that inteligence will beat power. For exemple, a inteligent person with a rock, and a dumb person with a machine gun. The probability of winning is way higher for the the dumb person.

 

[TheSageOfNinetails]

I agree that intelligence> brute force. Inteligence has a important role in a fight. However, sasuke is not dumb. In a fight, power and skills are also imporant.
Itachi cana analyse the techniques and find their weakness, but so can sasuke. Even if itachi finds the weakness, it doesnt mean he will have the power/skill to take advantage od that weakness.
Sasuke's powers are above itachi's, and sasuke has other advantages, as I explained.

And it's not always that inteligence will beat power. For exemple, a inteligent person with a rock, and a dumb person with a machine gun. The probability of winning is way higher for the the dumb person.

I agree, Sasuke isn't dumb.

But, put Itachi and Sasuke in this situation.

Sasuke is more powerful, but Itachi is more intelligent.

Both must analyze the other to find their only weakness.

First to find the weakness has the upper hand.

Itachi's superior intelligence will enable him to find the weakness first, and get upper hand.

Once Itachi has the upper hand, it's over.

There's no telling how long it will take Sasuke to catch up, but that doesn't matter because Itachi is also powerful and can manipulate that weakness to win.

 

[Wolfus]

I agree, Sasuke isn't dumb.

But, put Itachi and Sasuke in this situation.

Sasuke is more powerful, but Itachi is more intelligent.

Both must analyze the other to find their only weakness.

First to find the weakness has the upper hand.

Itachi's superior intelligence will enable him to find the weakness first, and get upper hand.

Once Itachi has the upper hand, it's over.

There's no telling how long it will take Sasuke to catch up, but that doesn't matter because Itachi is also powerful and can manipulate that weakness to win.

I agree that itachi would find the weakness first, but this wouldnt mean he would be able to take advantage of that weakness
For exemple, itachi vs juubito: eveb if itachi found out that his weakness is senjutsu, he wouldnt be able to use it as an advantage, as he doesnt have acess to senjutsu.
Sasuke already starts with the advantage: He has more power and more chakra. And he doesnt suffer from using EMS techs. If itachi found a weakness for susanoo, sasuke would be able to take advantage of that weakness as well.
The probabilities of sasuke winning are higher.

 

[ANiMUS]

You make valid points, but ruined the argument by saying Itachi has more intelligence than Sasuke.

If Itachi outsmarts Sasuke, brute force will play no effect in battle.

A battle between two Uchihas is always a battle of whits.

Careful planning will beat brute force 10/10 times.

Black Zetsu even said " a person with a shuriken can be beaten by a mere pebble, if thrown by a master".

No matter how many OP abilities you give Sasuke, if itachi outsmarts him, Sasuke will always lose.

Every jutsu has a weakness, and Itachi is more than capable of analyzing any jutsu, and taking advantage of its weakness.

Itachi knows the weaknesses for Sussano'o, Amaterasu, etc. Of uchiha jutsu aince he either posses them himself, or has taken the time to study in great detail.

Intelligence > Brute force.

Yes, Intelligence> brute force,but only if the person with the superior intelligence is able to come up with a suitable counter. Itachi since losing KA has 0 counters against Sasuke and Itachi's illness, nearsightedness, and MS aftereffects leave Sasuke with plenty of weaknesses to exploit. With these big handicaps and no counters against Sasuke's PS any thought of Sasuke losing to Itachi can only be called speculation and wishful thinking.

 

[Draphsin]

Now, yata. All it has are hypes. But OK. Yata can change the properties, the nature of an atack in order to deflect it. 2 atacks with different properties hitting yata in the same time would be enough for one to pass through it. As the properties are different, yata would be able to change only one at a time, as changing 2 at the same time would be just like looking to the right and to the left at the same time.

1. Wrong section

2. Your yata counter is wrong, yata specifically says that it will change its properties in accordance with the attributes of the attack. The DB didnt say AN attack, it said THE attack, referring to all attacks in general.

This is even backed up by yata's other description which says all attacks lose their meaning.


Point here is that yata can't be "countered", sasuke must simply wait for Itachi to run out of stamina or attack him before he activates it.

Btw everything else I agree with.

 

[Wolfus]

1. Wrong section

2. Your yata counter is wrong, yata specifically says that it will change its properties in accordance with the attributes of the attack. The DB didnt say AN attack, it said THE attack, referring to all attacks in general.

This is even backed up by yata's other description which says all attacks lose their meaning.


Point here is that yata can't be "countered", sasuke must simply wait for Itachi to run out of stamina or attack him before he activates it.

Btw everything else I agree with.

You missunderstood. As you said, yata will change the atack's properties in accordance with the attributes. 2 atacks with different atributes hitting at the same time would mean that one would pass throught it. The reason is that it would be impossible for yata to change 1 property for one atribute, and another property for another atribue, at the very same time.
It would be, as an analogy, I asking you to use the same hand to block against 2 different projectiles about to hit you, considering that both will hit you in the very same time, but one is comming from the right, and the other from the left. It would be impossible, as the atacks would have the same speed, and they would hit you at the same time.

This, of course, I'm considering the logic that must be behind of it. "All atacks lose their meaning", this is because all of them get "denied", nto because you could throw 100 atacks at the same time in it and all of them would be denied.

 

[shelke]

Sasuke outclasses Itachi on grounds of having powerful Ninjutsu - backed by the fact that Itachi had to resort to Amaterasu to counter Sasuke's Katon - better Shuriken Jutsu - I would say very slightly better - much better Kenjutsu. Itachi is slightly better at Speed and Reaction rate, but I believe it's mostly even in this department. As for the intelligence comment, then Orochimaru explicitly stated that his own pales before Sasuke's. I wonder in which fanfiction, Itachi's is vastly superior.

Overall, Sasuke is a superior Shinobi. He outclasses him on grounds of eyes and more powerful chakra. He appears to have better reserves as well. He simply outlasts him at MS and EMS. Totsuka is not getting through Susano'o and Yata Mirror logic is pointless as Sasuke can simply withhold his attacks to conserve Chakra. EMS is an easy win.

 

[Draphsin]

You missunderstood. As you said, yata will change the atack's properties in accordance with the attributes. 2 atacks with different atributes hitting at the same time would mean that one would pass throught it. The reason is that it would be impossible for yata to change 1 property for one atribute, and another property for another atribue, at the very same time.

@Bold: This is wrong, there is nothing implying such a thing. yata will change its properties in order to negate the attack, if two attacks come at it then what stops yata from changing half of its properties to one substance & the other half to another?

There is nothing stating such a thing, you speak as if yata can only change its properties as a whole, if this were the case then it would contradict the hype saying that it defends against all attacks. Yata can defend against anything thrown at it & it will change its properties in order to do so, two different attacks? two different properties that it has to change.

It would be, as an analogy, I asking you to use the same hand to block against 2 different projectiles about to hit you, considering that both will hit you in the very same time, but one is comming from the right, and the other from the left. It would be impossible, as the atacks would have the same speed, and they would hit you at the same time.

What you need to understand is that the "hand" in your analogy has the power to change every one of its properties. If that is the case then that hand can & will be able to defend against both attacks, because the amount of properties that it can change are limitless..

This, of course, I'm considering the logic that must be behind of it. "All atacks lose their meaning", this is because all of them get "denied", nto because you could throw 100 atacks at the same time in it and all of them would be denied.

All attacks, it doesnt matter if that attack is with one or two different jutsus simultaneously, anything that can bring harm to the user is considered an attack. An attack can be a barrage of different jutsus. It doesnt matter, all attacks lose their meaning.

 

[Naijakid]

I don't care about either