Establishing why: Kisame > Itachi

Strict

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Itachi beats Kisame before latter will do any meaningful actions. Itachi also knows Kisame's abilities and has the intellectual superiority and can convince with outstanding speed and tricky feints.

Itachi is already portrayed as the stronger of them. That thread was not necessary.
 

Shura

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Itachi beats Kisame before latter will do any meaningful actions. Itachi also knows Kisame's abilities and has the intellectual superiority and can convince with outstanding speed and tricky feints.

Itachi is already portrayed as the stronger of them. That thread was not necessary.
Sasori is portrayed to be stronger than Deidara and yet people debate it. U_U

lmao he is? whats his new user?
MetalGundam.. Such a badass name. Lol
 

Disquiet

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*Thread gets shut down for spam before anyone can provide a counter* :(

lol anyways, I skimmed through a bit. I may attempt to counter this; if my laziness doesn't best me.
 

Shura

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*Thread gets shut down for spam before anyone can provide a counter* :(

lol anyways, I skimmed through a bit. I may attempt to counter this; if my laziness doesn't best me.

Lol I usually turn threads into spam threads (Charlie does that too tho') so I wouldn't be surprised if that happens. xD


And alright.
 

ShaneEyyy

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Wow, I'm surprised you didn't even mention Kisame's Great Shark Bullet tech that increases in size against another Ninjutsu, in this case Susanoo.

Kisame wins, great thread
 

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ShaneEyyy

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Yata repels it.

OT - I believe it could go either way. Nice thread man.
True it repels it; however, the shark would be able to constantly grow in size by absorbing the chakra from the yata mirrow so Susanoo will constantly be in use as the shark is still getting bigger thus exhaust Itachi rather quickly.

Yeah looking over the thread, I do see a few counters, this battle goes either way honestly
 

SasoriOfTheRedSaand

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True it repels it; however, the shark would be able to constantly grow in size by absorbing the chakra from the yata mirrow so Susanoo will constantly be in use as the shark is still getting bigger thus exhaust Itachi rather quickly.

Yeah looking over the thread, I do see a few counters, this battle goes either way honestly
It grows in size because it absorbs the opponents chakra [ ]; Yata however, will repel it entirely, as it changes its attributes in accordance with the attack [ ]. Without anything to absorb (due to the mirror), GSB won't be allowed to grow bigger and stronger; it simply gets repelled.
 

Prince Charles

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Regarding your genjutsu counter I noticed you brought samehada would disrupt the chakra flow to break kisame out of it, to my understanding samehada must first gather the chakra from the victim first as shown against killer bee which made samehada capable of healing kisame from Bee's deadly attack. Keeping that in mind if samehada does not have some form of chakra in it I don't see it disrupting the chakra flow in kisame to break the genjutsu.

Itachi has full knowledge on the capabilities of samehada which means he should know about the radius of it's chakra absorbing ability and the fact that it can potentially break kisame out of genjutsu which means Itachi's main goal would be to break apart samehada from kisame by any possible means.

Now im really going to go in...

As shown earlier in the manga by Itachi, naruto was placed in a simple finger genjutsu, but if we analyze near the end it required both lady chiyo and sakura to place a sudden surge of chakra into naruto.



^^ that being said it will take samehada triple the amount of time to break kisame out of Itachi's genjutsu since it is only samehada alone and that is assuming samehada gets the chakra to put into kisame which he will have to steal from itachi which I don't see happening since Itachi knows of the abilities of samehada. ( im not saying im 100% correct on samehada having to steal chakra from itachi, samehada could already have chakra in it I really don't know. But yeah.. Samehada may be a counter to breaking kisame out of Itachi's genjutsu but in no way shape or form will it be instant to my understanding.

Regarding kisame turning turning the land into a lake like against Guy, while this may be chakra draining and risky he could already release a on the lake to make it heat up and be a danger to kisame and samehada underwater since the lake will be getting dangerously hot, if kisame comes up from beneath theirs the chance he can get hit with amaterasu since we have already seen and he can make it chase after kisame. Samehada has the ability to absorb amaterasu but even though it does it will not since it couldnt even handle a simple katon from Edo itachi.

Match could go either way but Itachi is no fool, strict had a point regarding itach's knowledge and intellect, itachi is the type of man to not let things go out of his control and rather end things quickly.



Jiraiya already stated that genjutsu requires a high level of intellect which itachi excels greatly in genjutsu, its pretty self explanatory.
 

Disquiet

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Lol I usually turn threads into spam threads (Charlie does that too tho') so I wouldn't be surprised if that happens. xD


And alright.

Lol


Alright, I want to run a point by real fast. I will be keeping manga scans to a minimun unless asked, I'll assume you're aware of the following situations. It's not much, but I'm going to try to use some of your points against you. Quite frankly, I don't think Kisame has what it takes to fight Itachi avoiding eye contact, nor am I completely convinced Samehada will know if Kisame is in a genjutsu; which means the point of a finger would buy some valuable seconds. I'll have to research that a bit; if I muster up the energy to fully participate in this debate.

Argument:

1) Does Kisame even know about Totsuka? It was hinted that Itachi kept them a secret.

2) Kisame was defeated because he failed to realize that Gai's attack wasn't chakra based.

3) Itachi knows of Kisame's fighting style and how Samehada works (most important).

4) You say Samehada is a living organism

Itachi is intelligent, yes? According to you, why waste time on attacks when he knows Kisame can easily (in your words) avoid genjutsu and such and other attacks of Itachi with large-scale techniques. However, if Itachi chose to activate Susano'o right off the bat; Kisame as shown, is most likely to try and eat away at it with his Samehada. At the very least, he will observe it before planning his next course of action. He absorbed Bee's cloak, which, was capable of consuming quite a bit (as you pointed out). However, this is where he gets surprised by Totsuka. Sealing Samehada should be well within Totsuka's means, in fact since it's not physical, it would go straight through Samehada (as it did Nagato) and seal Kisame in the process. Remember now, Kisame has already fallen prey to an attack he knew nothing about. If Itachi activates Susano'o; it would be no real threat to Kisame (as far as he's concerned) - . In fact, Orochimaru failed under the same premises I'm basing this argument; no knowledge of totsuka. He thought nothing special of the blade . We know Orochimaru is a very intelligent and knowledgeable person. Kisame has even less of a reason to fear it. Also, it's not like this fighting style is outside Kisame's character.

Itachi activates Susano'o>Totsuka blitzes>Kisame's style largely revolves around absorbing other's chakra and making himself stronger in the process>Attempts to block with Samehada>Gets both of them sealed.


Don't get mistaken, I know Kisame has other means of dodging Totsuka. I don't see a reason for him to do so, especially when his style revolves around absorbing opponents' chakra.
 
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Forbidden Technique

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Regarding your genjutsu counter I noticed you brought samehada would disrupt the chakra flow to break kisame out of it, to my understanding samehada must first gather the chakra from the victim first as shown against killer bee which made samehada capable of healing kisame from Bee's deadly attack. Keeping that in mind if samehada does not have some form of chakra in it I don't see it disrupting the chakra flow in kisame to break the genjutsu.

Itachi has full knowledge on the capabilities of samehada which means he should know about the radius of it's chakra absorbing ability and the fact that it can potentially break kisame out of genjutsu which means Itachi's main goal would be to break apart samehada from kisame by any possible means.

Now im really going to go in...

As shown earlier in the manga by Itachi, naruto was placed in a simple finger genjutsu, but if we analyze near the end it required both lady chiyo and sakura to place a sudden surge of chakra into naruto.



^^ that being said it will take samehada triple the amount of time to break kisame out of Itachi's genjutsu since it is only samehada alone and that is assuming samehada gets the chakra to put into kisame which he will have to steal from itachi which I don't see happening since Itachi knows of the abilities of samehada. ( im not saying im 100% correct on samehada having to steal chakra from itachi, samehada could already have chakra in it I really don't know. But yeah.. Samehada may be a counter to breaking kisame out of Itachi's genjutsu but in no way shape or form will it be instant to my understanding.
First and foremost, Samehada has it's own supply of chakra [ ] and is able to distinguish Kisames sense of urgency on it's own [ ]. Thus, any genjutsu short of Tsukiyomi is rendered near useless against Kisame while wielding Samehada.


Regarding kisame turning turning the land into a lake like against Guy, while this may be chakra draining and risky he could already release a on the lake to make it heat up and be a danger to kisame and samehada underwater since the lake will be getting dangerously hot, if kisame comes up from beneath theirs the chance he can get hit with amaterasu since we have already seen and he can make it chase after kisame. Samehada has the ability to absorb amaterasu but even though it does it will not since it couldnt even handle a simple katon from Edo itachi.

Match could go either way but Itachi is no fool, strict had a point regarding itach's knowledge and intellect, itachi is the type of man to not let things go out of his control and rather end things quickly.



Jiraiya already stated that genjutsu requires a high level of intellect which itachi excels greatly in genjutsu, its pretty self explanatory.
A pretty bad tactic, seeing as you're countering a technique that a 30% Kisame used effortlessly with no sign of chakra exhaustion with a technique that Itachi couldn't even use with his 30% clone. Then there is the unlikeliness of amaterasu even heating up the entire lake to the point it is unbearable for Kisame to swim in. Not only that, but you completely ignored Kaaants segment in the OP detailing Samehadas capability of absorbing amaterasu.
 

Shura

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First and foremost, Samehada has it's own supply of chakra [ ] and is able to distinguish Kisames sense of urgency on it's own [ ]. Thus, any genjutsu short of Tsukiyomi is rendered near useless against Kisame while wielding Samehada.




A pretty bad tactic, seeing as you're countering a technique that a 30% Kisame used effortlessly with no sign of chakra exhaustion with a technique that Itachi couldn't even use with his 30% clone. Then there is the unlikeliness of amaterasu even heating up the entire lake to the point it is unbearable for Kisame to swim in. Not only that, but you completely ignored Kaaants segment in the OP detailing Samehadas capability of absorbing amaterasu.

Thanks.. I just started writting a counter.. xD Oh well since you countered PC, I'll focus on Nameless.
 

Shura

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Lol


Alright, I want to run a point by real fast. I will be keeping manga scans to a minimun unless asked, I'll assume you're aware of the following situations. It's not much, but I'm going to try to use some of your points against you. Quite frankly, I don't think Kisame has what it takes to fight Itachi avoiding eye contact, nor am I completely convinced Samehada will know if Kisame is in a genjutsu; which means the point of a finger would buy some valuable seconds. I'll have to research that a bit; if I muster up the energy to fully participate in this debate.
I must admit that Kisame isn't the brightest fellow, but he is the one who clearly wouldn't underestimate Itachi. Someone like him would make sure that he makes no eye contact with Itachi. [ ] Anyways, Samehada should be able to notice when Kisame is in a Genjutsu since it has shown to notice when Kisame needs help. [ ]

Argument:

1) Does Kisame even know about Totsuka? It was hinted that Itachi kept them a secret.

2) Kisame was defeated because he failed to realize that Gai's attack wasn't chakra based.

3) Itachi knows of Kisame's fighting style and how Samehada works (most important).

4) You say Samehada is a living organism
Kisame doesn't have knowledge on the Susano'o nor the Totsuka Blade and even though Kisame isn't the brightest fellow like I said before, he would be the last person who would underestimate anything Itachi does. As soon as Itachi activates his Susano'o, Kisame would be wary of it. The most logical tactic would be staying the hell away from it and attacking it from a distance. Kisame would most likely do this as soon as he sees it.

Itachi is intelligent, yes? According to you, why waste time on attacks when he knows Kisame can easily (in your words) avoid genjutsu and such and other attacks of Itachi with large-scale techniques. However, if Itachi chose to activate Susano'o right off the bat; Kisame as shown, is most likely to try and eat away at it with his Samehada. At the very least, he will observe it before planning his next course of action. He absorbed Bee's cloak, which, was capable of consuming quite a bit (as you pointed out). However, this is where he gets surprised by Totsuka. Sealing Samehada should be well within Totsuka's means, in fact since it's not physical, it would go straight through Samehada (as it did Nagato) and seal Kisame in the process. Remember now, Kisame has already fallen prey to an attack he knew nothing about. If Itachi activates Susano'o; it would be no real threat to Kisame (as far as he's concerned) - . In fact, Orochimaru failed under the same premises I'm basing this argument; no knowledge of totsuka. He thought nothing special of the blade . We know Orochimaru is a very intelligent and knowledgeable person. Kisame has even less of a reason to fear it. Also, it's not like this fighting style is outside Kisame's character.
Like I said, I doubt that Kisame would try to attack Itachi head on considering how Kisame is kind of an Itachi fanboy. He would most likely keep his distance from the Susano'o and furthermore he knows that Itachi is a genius and he knows that Itachi has knowledge on his absorbing capabilities so he would most likely ask himself; ''Why would Itachi activate something that can be absorbed by Samehada?''. And the most logical conclusion would be that this new technique of Itachi's has a way of countering his absorbing capabilities so he would keep his distance.

Itachi activates Susano'o>Totsuka blitzes>Kisame's style largely revolves around absorbing other's chakra and making himself stronger in the process>Attempts to block with Samehada>Gets both of them sealed.


Don't get mistaken, I know Kisame has other means of dodging Totsuka. I don't see a reason for him to do so, especially when his style revolves around absorbing opponents' chakra.
Oh well.. Just look above, I guess. :p


Zabuza's sword is not a living thing....

Samehada is...It can't be ****ing cloned ...:devil:
Zexion.. Samehada was cloned in the manga, you genius..
 
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