[Theory] [FEAR Truth behind Mokuton

[Mr Hiru]

1) What are you talking about, your first sentence and 2nd sentence make no sense at all.

2) What fallacy are you talking about? And what ad hominem did I use? Do you even know what an ad hominem is? Ad hominem in latin translates to "Against the Man" or "To the person" and it is basically when you attack the person instead of addressing there argument.

Example:

If you said Burgerking makes the best burgers in town, and I said yah but Burger king runs a shady operation. Then that is an ad hominem, because instead of arguing the fact of whether or not Burgerking makes good burgers, I instead attack Burger king and by doing so lower there credibility.

Now when I did I do that to you? I never attacked you as a person... I mean I said you were slipping, but thats not a personal attack, that is just an observation I made based on your arguments, which so far has only been proven right.

Dont start something and then refuse to finish because you cant be bothered with it... Lets talk this out like men. I feel like I made a few very good counter points which you neglect to even consider.

Let's start again then... because you started to talk with arrogance when you attacked ME telling that my argumentation was laughable.

...

"Only Hashirama is the only Senju who has shown Mokuton abilities. Therefore, there is no other Senju with Mokuton abilities".

That's your postulate.

My counter-argument is a possibility (please, read carefully, I won't repeat again: POSSIBILITY, I did not say it was a truth): "No, there is other Senju who wields Mokuton". And I backed up that POSSIBILITY with a logic.

If I'd said what I said was a truth or a fact, then you could automatically be in the position to tell that I was doing a fallacy, the argumentum ad ignorantiam. And yes, I can't wield that as a proof, since it is only a valid possibility (and as I backed it up with logic, it is not baseless).

But as you are still not able to refute it, the conclusion "for now" is simple...

Your theory can be disproven once my possibility is confirmed as fact.

Or in the other side...

Your theory can be confirmed once my possibility is disproved with definite counter-proof.

...

PS: What you did earlier, to disprove the relationship between the Mokuton and the Yang Energy, the argument 3)... I think I left you in blank so I understand you discredited that argument almost inmediatly. But I think I should've mention that this is one of the main characteristics of the Younger Son of the Sage, he was born with Yang Energy in abundance. These powers were inherited after all, so I apologize in advance for omitting such detail.

 

[FearxDeath]

Let's start again then... because you started to talk with arrogance when you attacked ME telling that my argumentation was laughable.

...

"Only Hashirama is the only Senju who has shown Mokuton abilities. Therefore, there is no other Senju with Mokuton abilities".

That's your postulate.

My counter-argument is a possibility (please, read carefully, I won't repeat again: POSSIBILITY, I did not say it was a truth): "No, there is other Senju who wields Mokuton". And I backed up that POSSIBILITY with a logic.

If I'd said what I said was a truth or a fact, then you could automatically be in the position to tell that I was doing a fallacy, the argumentum ad ignorantiam. And yes, I can't wield that as a proof, since it is only a valid possibility (and as I backed it up with logic, it is not baseless).

But as you are still not able to refute it, the conclusion "for now" is simple...

Your theory can be disproven once my possibility is confirmed as fact.

Or in the other side...

Your theory can be confirmed once my possibility is disproved with definite counter-proof.

...

PS: What you did earlier, to disprove the relationship between the Mokuton and the Yang Energy, the argument 3)... I think I left you in blank so I understand you discredited that argument almost inmediatly. But I think I should've mention that this is one of the main characteristics of the Younger Son of the Sage, he was born with Yang Energy in abundance. These powers were inherited after all, so I apologize in advance for omitting such detail.

... Yes but where does that get us? If your saying my theory can be proven or disproved depending on whether or not your assertion can be confirmed... then why bother even saying that without confirming it?

Dont get me wrong you are completely correct, if other Senju can use Mokuton then my theory would be disproved. Which is why I maintain that there are no other Senju that could use Mokuton. But remember I dont have to prove that statement, because it is not my burden to prove the negative. The burden falls on the person claiming the affirmative "Other Senju can use Mokuton."

In short it can be said like this, my proof that Hashirama is the only Senju that can use Mokuton is the fact that I havent seen or heard of any other Senju that can use Mokuton. And thus I have no reason to believe that there are any Senju other than Hashirama that can use Mokuton.

3) I see what you mean now, but with that I will response to you the same way I responded to king Derp Obito. What is the link between Yang and Mokuton. You could say that Mokuton uses up alot of Yang and the Senju happen to have an abundance of Yang and question whether or not that is a coincedence. And that would actually be a very good point. But then that leads back to the question of " If that is the case then why has there only been 1 Mokuton user in existence"
and to that you respond there are more, and to that I say prove it.

 

[Mr Hiru]

... Yes but where does that get us? If your saying my theory can be proven or disproved depending on whether or not your assertion can be confirmed... then why bother even saying that without confirming it?

Dont get me wrong you are completely correct, if other Senju can use Mokuton then my theory would be disproved. Which is why I maintain that there are no other Senju that could use Mokuton. But remember I dont have to prove that statement, because it is not my burden to prove the negative. The burden falls on the person claiming the affirmative "Other Senju can use Mokuton."

In short it can be said like this, my proof that Hashirama is the only Senju that can use Mokuton is the fact that I havent seen or heard of any other Senju that can use Mokuton. And thus I have no reason to believe that there are any Senju other than Hashirama that can use Mokuton.

3) I see what you mean now, but with that I will response to you the same way I responded to king Derp Obito. What is the link between Yang and Mokuton. You could say that Mokuton uses up alot of Yang and the Senju happen to have an abundance of Yang and question whether or not that is a coincedence. And that would actually be a very good point. But then that leads back to the question of " If that is the case then why has there only been 1 Mokuton user in existence"
and to that you respond there are more, and to that I say prove it.

1)

Your theory is all right as a theory, but my concern (or better said, my questioning) is fixed on a specific topic:

"the fact that I havent seen or heard of any other Senju that can use Mokuton"

You are basing or assuming a fact on a negation. You're negating a possibility because an arbitrary observation. I'd be ok if you tell me that it is a possibility, but you're assuming it as a fact when there is not any explicit statement in the manga affirming the complete extintion of this clan nor other members wielding this power, ergo... if it's not your burden to prove the negative, then:

a) You're the author of the manga to be sure of your negation, or
b) You can see the future, assuming the manga will reveal this or
c) You're the god of Narutoverse and you know all of these truths

Clearly, you don't meet these requirements. ALBEIT, your statement is still fully plausible, the main problem of this argument being trated as a fact is

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. Yes, you're speaking of Hashirama being the only Senju being able to use Mokuton because there is no proof of an exception. Only because of this, I would only treat this as a valid possibility, but not as a proof or a fact.

--- If you understood my questioning, we can go further.

2) Relationship between Yang and Mokuton is speculative, yes. But the logic was not done based on symbolism, it was made based on specific chapters of this manga:

a) Creation of All Things and its properties
b) The birth of the Two Sons of the Sage of Six Path and their properties

In both cases, it was mentioned that there was a tight relationship between:

i) Yin, Spiritual Energy, Imagination and Mind
ii) Yang, Physical Energy, Lifeforce and Body

...this said, the reason of why Yang energy became a rare trait among the Senju was not trivial... and it is explicited here:

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Bloodline divides into Yin and Yang to create things. There is the relationship i) and ii) (with the exception of body and eyes)

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There Eyes and Body came into the relationship

You must be registered for see links

And finally, there lies the reason of why the Yang energy as a trait was lost... the bloodline thinned.

...not even for Yang energy of course... but Yin too.

You must be registered for see links

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Only few Uchiha had the mental strength to go further and kill a dear one so they awake the Mangekyou. Then again, why so few? The answer remains the same... the bloodline thinned.

 

[Bronze]

Mokuton and Sharingan did not come from Juubi. They came from Rikudou who possessed those powers himself. His genetics and powers were inherited by his sons that were passed down to Uchiha and Senju.

 

[Mr Hiru]

Mokuton and Sharingan did not come from Juubi. They came from Rikudou who possessed those powers himself. His genetics and powers were inherited by his sons that were passed down to Uchiha and Senju.

Rikudou Powers came from the Juubi, so as both Mokuton and Sharingan came from Rikudou, then they came from the Juubi. The reason is that he was the first human genetically born with chakra, and he is the ancestor of Shinobi. This is a manga fact.

Principle of transitivity.

 

[Meowazziel]

Here you go:

Spoiler

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As you can clearly see neither storm release nor Lava style was used. Just lighting, Rock, Fire and Water.

Lastly Wind is not a Kekkia Genkai and before i comment on the Haku thing I am going to need you to provide me with the scan that says what you are saying.

Thanks for the pages.
They are using Ranton laser circus, which is storm release as said on page you link yourself (they use a note for it). Please read again. It is not just lightning as you say. It is stormrelease (water+lightning to form the storm release). The group with Kurotsuchi is using lava release. You can see it due to the jutsu being called ''youton'', which is lava. That are quite some lava release users on that picture. It is not just fire as you say.

I never said that wind was a kekkei genkai. I was replying to how rare it is.
It is less rare than you make it out to be, due to many unnamed Shinobi using it.
For example here are some Temari like windusers in the back:

Spoiler

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and here are some more windusers

Spoiler

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and these pics are both just from the sand shinobi only. Counting windusers from other villages increases the number further. Haku for example can use wind as well (seeing it is required to use ice release). Onoki and Muu can use it, seeing it is required for dust release. Konoha has several windusers too.

Here are the pages about Haku's mom. Pages 9-12

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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[FearxDeath]

1)

Your theory is all right as a theory, but my concern (or better said, my questioning) is fixed on a specific topic:



You are basing or assuming a fact on a negation. You're negating a possibility because an arbitrary observation. I'd be ok if you tell me that it is a possibility, but you're assuming it as a fact when there is not any explicit statement in the manga affirming the complete extintion of this clan nor other members wielding this power, ergo... if it's not your burden to prove the negative, then:

a) You're the author of the manga to be sure of your negation, or
b) You can see the future, assuming the manga will reveal this or
c) You're the god of Narutoverse and you know all of these truths

Clearly, you don't meet these requirements. ALBEIT, your statement is still fully plausible, the main problem of this argument being trated as a fact is

You must be registered for see links

. Yes, you're speaking of Hashirama being the only Senju being able to use Mokuton because there is no proof of an exception. Only because of this, I would only treat this as a valid possibility, but not as a proof or a fact.

--- If you understood my questioning, we can go further.

2) Relationship between Yang and Mokuton is speculative, yes. But the logic was not done based on symbolism, it was made based on specific chapters of this manga:

a) Creation of All Things and its properties
b) The birth of the Two Sons of the Sage of Six Path and their properties

In both cases, it was mentioned that there was a tight relationship between:

i) Yin, Spiritual Energy, Imagination and Mind
ii) Yang, Physical Energy, Lifeforce and Body

...this said, the reason of why Yang energy became a rare trait among the Senju was not trivial... and it is explicited here:

You must be registered for see links

Bloodline divides into Yin and Yang to create things. There is the relationship i) and ii) (with the exception of body and eyes)

You must be registered for see links

There Eyes and Body came into the relationship

You must be registered for see links

And finally, there lies the reason of why the Yang energy as a trait was lost... the bloodline thinned.

...not even for Yang energy of course... but Yin too.

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

Only few Uchiha had the mental strength to go further and kill a dear one so they awake the Mangekyou. Then again, why so few? The answer remains the same... the bloodline thinned.

I feel like slowly but surely this conversation has gone into a place that I dont feel comfortable with as it has strayed into irrelevance. So let me attempt to control the reigns and refocus what my argument is.

Now in your first reply you said "Hey Fear, what's the proof of Hashirama being the only one Senju among thousands who inherited Mokuton?"

That was in response to the statement I made which was "My main beef with this is the idea is the fact that ONLY Hashirama is able to use Wood Style. Why? Every single member of the Uchiha have the ability to use the Sharingan, yet Hashirama was the ONLY Senju out of hundreds if not thousands born with Mokuton..."

From that point we digressed into an debate of who should have to prove what and how it should be done and why and stuff that didnt have to deal with the topic so im just going to ignore all that I say this.

Let me argue this from the stand point of Occams Razor.

1) If I am correct and there are no other Senju with Mokuton then what changes about the Manga? Nothing right? No new assumptions need be posited if my assertion is correct, the manga logically continues as follows.

2) If your assertion is correct and there are other Senju Mokuton users then what assumptions must occur within the manga... a few.

• New Senju who can now use Mokuton must now be introduced to the manga
• The question of why they have not been scene or heard of in the manga is introduced

Thus we see that in invoking your assertion more assumptions need be made and by occams razor it is less likely than my theory, and as I said before I deal with what is likely and not what is possible because "Alot of things are possible, that doesnt make them true or likely. It is possible that Madara is really a good guy, It is possible that the Obito is playing a prank on everyone and they are already inside of Infinite Tsukuyomi, ALOT of things are possible."

Now last but not least whenever i speak on this people go through great lenghts to show the link between Yang and the Juubi/Rikudo, but I always tell them to show me the link between Yang and Mokuton and no one ever can. The best they can do is that Mokuton requires alot of life force/Yang energy therefore it must have something to do with it. But with that said everything that is alive requires Yang Energies, as Yang is literally life force while Yin is spiritual forces. And being that Tree's are alive yet possess no spiritual capacity it only makes sense that they would require primarily Yang.

What I am saying is that there is no lnk between Mokuton and the Senju.

Thanks for the pages.
They are using Ranton laser circus, which is storm release as said on page you link yourself (they use a note for it). Please read again. It is not just lightning as you say. It is stormrelease (water+lightning to form the storm release). The group with Kurotsuchi is using lava release. You can see it due to the jutsu being called ''youton'', which is lava. That are quite some lava release users on that picture. It is not just fire as you say.

I never said that wind was a kekkei genkai. I was replying to how rare it is.
It is less rare than you make it out to be, due to many unnamed Shinobi using it.
For example here are some Temari like windusers in the back:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

and here are some more windusers

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

and these pics are both just from the sand shinobi only. Counting windusers from other villages increases the number further. Haku for example can use wind as well (seeing it is required to use ice release). Onoki and Muu can use it, seeing it is required for dust release. Konoha has several windusers too.

Here are the pages about Haku's mom. Pages 9-12

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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Sorry I have sleep deprived when I responded to that, I litterally just woke up 30minutes ago. Let me rephrase my response.

The fact that there are more wind, raton and lava style users than unprecedented does not change my argument.

Also to speak on the rarity of it, your post shows that there may be a handful more Kekkia Genkai users present but that is still a miniscule amount. We see 4 more Ranton users in the scan, that is 4 within the entire Shinobi alliance which is composed of 80,000 people, We see about 20 youton users, again out of 80,000 people. And that is just out of the number of ninja's not including ordinary civilians that would also live in the villages of the United Shinobi Alliance. So the rarity of he kekkia genkai is not really impacted.

 

[Mr Hiru]

I feel like slowly but surely this conversation has gone into a place that I dont feel comfortable with as it has strayed into irrelevance. So let me attempt to control the reigns and refocus what my argument is.

Now in your first reply you said "Hey Fear, what's the proof of Hashirama being the only one Senju among thousands who inherited Mokuton?"

That was in response to the statement I made which was "My main beef with this is the idea is the fact that ONLY Hashirama is able to use Wood Style. Why? Every single member of the Uchiha have the ability to use the Sharingan, yet Hashirama was the ONLY Senju out of hundreds if not thousands born with Mokuton..."

From that point we digressed into an debate of who should have to prove what and how it should be done and why and stuff that didnt have to deal with the topic so im just going to ignore all that I say this.

Let me argue this from the stand point of Occams Razor.

1) If I am correct then what changes about the Manga? Nothing right? No new assumptions need be posited if my assertion is correct, the manga continues as follows.

2) If your assertion is correct then what changes occur within the manga... a few.

• New Senju who can now use Mokuton must now be introduced to the manga
• The question of why they have not been scene or heard of in the manga is introduced

Thus we see that in invoking your assertion more assumptions need be made and by occams razor it is less likely than my theory, and as I said before I deal with what is likely and not what is possible because "Alot of things are possible, that doesnt make them true or likely. It is possible that Madara is really a good guy, It is possible that the Obito is playing a prank on everyone and they are already inside of Infinite Tsukuyomi, ALOT of things are possible."

Now last but not least whenever i speak on this people go through great lenghts to show the link between Yang and the Juubi/Rikudo, but I always tell them to show me the link between Yang and Mokuton and no one ever can. The best they can do is that Mokuton requires alot of life force/Yang energy therefore it must have something to do with it. But with that said everything that is alive requires Yang Energies, as Yang is literally life force while Yin is spiritual forces. And being that Tree's are alive yet possess no spiritual capacity it only makes sense that they would require primarily Yang.

What I am saying is that there is no lnk between Mokuton and the Senju.

I'll give a thought before answering. In advance, I'll give you the reasoon of why my argument connects to more than just that line:

"My main beef with this is the idea is the fact that ONLY Hashirama is able to use Wood Style. Why? Every single member of the Uchiha have the ability to use the Sharingan, yet Hashirama was the ONLY Senju out of hundreds if not thousands born with Mokuton..."

Sharingan is a basic ability of the Uchiha, Mokuton is a way too advanced kind of jutsu.

That was a kinda reckless comparison in my opinion. There goes the "why" I bought the earth and water element into game... there are previous levels of training to beat before achieving Mokuton, and it was Yamato the one who told this while Naruto was creating the Rasen Shuriken.

In my opinion (based on how much hardships you must overcome in order to achieve certain things), the thing would go like...

a) Sharingan (Lvl 1) = mastery over 1 element (earth or water)
b) Sharingan (Lvl 2) = mastery over 2 elements
c) Sharingan (Lvl 3) = mastery over 2 elements and the correct use of yang energy, kind of how Yamato uses his Mokuton that is not that strong.
d) Mangekyo Sharingan = mastery over Mokuton element with Yang energy in abundance, that's like Hashirama.

If you see the difficulty level of Sharingan and Mokuton, at least you should consider these variables.

But please don't compare the level 1 sharingan with the Hashirama's mokuton, that's is really a bad comparison.

 

[FearxDeath]

But please don't compare the level 1 sharingan with the Hashirama's mokuton, that's is really a bad comparison.

Fair enough

 

[Senju Bean]

Fear, Mokuton is not necessarily a Senju ability almost as much as Kamui is not necessarily an Uchiha ability. Out of hundreds of Uchiha, only Obito could use Kamui.

Now, I believe that Hashirama had Mokuton because he was the strongest of the Senju. Since Yin and Yang are supposed to be equal, it is somewhat strange that Madara was totally outclassed by Hashi. Well Madara didn't have a one of a kind OP eye tech since he wasn't the human pinnacle of the Juubi's eye like Hashi was of the Juubi's body.

The rest of the Senju represent the Juubi body, but not the pinnacle. That is why they do not have the Mokuton.

Maybe the pinnacle of the Uchiha is Kamui. It could be a counterpoint to Mokuton. What is the God Tree's eye tech? The ability to create another world. Kamui is another world. In this sense, it kinda works. I don't think it's perfectly symmetrical, but there's probably a way of logically explaining it.

Actually, I thought here's how it might be symmetrical. Every Uchiha actually had the Sharingan, something that is supposed to be the Juubi's eye. None of the Senju's bodies resembled the Juubi's. This imblance is made up for by having the Human Pinnacle being directly able to use Mokuton, the same tech that the God tree could use. Likewise, the Human Pinnacle of the Juubi's Eye is not likely to be the same exact tech that the Juubi's eye can use. It's because we have to compensate for all the Uchihas having Sharingan's. It's about the overall Yin/Yang balance.

 

[Mr Hiru]

Fear, Mokuton is not necessarily a Senju ability almost as much as Kamui is not necessarily an Uchiha ability. Out of hundreds of Uchiha, only Obito could use Kamui.

Now, I believe that Hashirama had Mokuton because he was the strongest of the Senju. Since Yin and Yang are supposed to be equal, it is somewhat strange that Madara was totally outclassed by Hashi. Well Madara didn't have a one of a kind OP eye tech since he wasn't the human pinnacle of the Juubi's eye like Hashi was of the Juubi's body.

The rest of the Senju represent the Juubi body, but not the pinnacle. That is why they do not have the Mokuton.

Maybe the pinnacle of the Uchiha is Kamui. It could be a counterpoint to Mokuton. What is the God Tree's eye tech? The ability to create another world. Kamui is another world. In this sense, it kinda works. I don't think it's perfectly symmetrical, but there's probably a way of logically explaining it.

Actually, I thought here's how it might be symmetrical. Every Uchiha actually had the Sharingan, something that is supposed to be the Juubi's eye. None of the Senju's bodies resembled the Juubi's. This imblance is made up for by having the Human Pinnacle being directly able to use Mokuton, the same tech that the God tree could use. Likewise, the Human Pinnacle of the Juubi's Eye is not likely to be the same exact tech that the Juubi's eye can use. It's because we have to compensate for all the Uchihas having Sharingan's. It's about the overall Yin/Yang balance.

Another way to look at it. It's logical too.

 

[FearxDeath]

Fear, Mokuton is not necessarily a Senju ability almost as much as Kamui is not necessarily an Uchiha ability. Out of hundreds of Uchiha, only Obito could use Kamui.

Now, I believe that Hashirama had Mokuton because he was the strongest of the Senju. Since Yin and Yang are supposed to be equal, it is somewhat strange that Madara was totally outclassed by Hashi. Well Madara didn't have a one of a kind OP eye tech since he wasn't the human pinnacle of the Juubi's eye like Hashi was of the Juubi's body.

The rest of the Senju represent the Juubi body, but not the pinnacle. That is why they do not have the Mokuton.

Maybe the pinnacle of the Uchiha is Kamui. It could be a counterpoint to Mokuton. What is the God Tree's eye tech? The ability to create another world. Kamui is another world. In this sense, it kinda works. I don't think it's perfectly symmetrical, but there's probably a way of logically explaining it.

Actually, I thought here's how it might be symmetrical. Every Uchiha actually had the Sharingan, something that is supposed to be the Juubi's eye. None of the Senju's bodies resembled the Juubi's. This imblance is made up for by having the Human Pinnacle being directly able to use Mokuton, the same tech that the God tree could use. Likewise, the Human Pinnacle of the Juubi's Eye is not likely to be the same exact tech that the Juubi's eye can use. It's because we have to compensate for all the Uchihas having Sharingan's. It's about the overall Yin/Yang balance.

Here is my beef with the fact that people believe that Hashirama got Mokuton because he was the pincacle or best of the Senju... He was born with Mokuton. Born with it. He didnt have to do anything, he could have not even had been a ninja, he could have turned out to be as weak as Yamato, what if he and his younger brother switched and he happened to die when he was a kid. Him having Mokuton and him turning out to be as strong a ninja as he was are 2 completely unrelated things. So to say that Hashirama had Mokuton because he was the strongest of the Senju would thus mean that by birth and at birth Hashirama was destined to be the strongest of the Senju and thus was born with Mokuton at birth...

You also say "Perhaps the pinacle of the Uchiha is Senju" that is malarky, Each Uchiha have different MS abilities, this is a common trait among the Uchiha. Obito's Family had Kamiu, Sasuke's Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi, and Madara's and Izuna their own. But again this is not something you acquire, you are born with this type of MS ability. And thus it too is acquired at birth.

Now to me it seems strange that all of this stuff is decided at birth, Hashirama was given Mokuton because somehow something that hands out crazy powers knew that he would survive and grow up to be the strongest Senju? Obito was given Kamui because somehow something knew that he would be smashed by a rock, taken in by Madara, and groomed to be a strong Uchiha. It would have to have been done on purpose because again the chances of them either dying as a child, not even being a ninja, or being weak is far too high. Thus the only reason it would have happened would be to serve plot, and I dont believe in plot fueling plot so either kishimoto is a bad writer or you are wrong about this. Which do you think i believe?

"Every Uchiha actually had the Sharingan, something that is supposed to be the Juubi's eye. None of the Senju's bodies resembled the Juubi's. This imblance is made up for by having the Human Pinnacle being directly able to use Mokuton, the same tech that the God tree could use." Now the question is.... Why, why do that. Why have that round-a-bout way of doing things that arouses so many questions. The only reason things would be done like that would be to fit this idea of symmetry that you propose.

But once again, I say that there is no link between Mokuton and the Senju... There is a link between the Senju and Yang, there is a link between the Senju and the Juubi, and by some wild stretch of the imagination there is a link between Mokuton and the Juubi... But there is no link between Mokuton and the Senju other than the fact that One lone senju just so happened to have Mokuton.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Wooow ^^ pretty nice smack down. But he's right the Senju Clan had the nickname "The Senju clan of the forest" I find that rather convenient for the Clan that just so has the potential to have Mokuton to be named after that possibility, and if Hashirama was the ONLY Mokuton user then they wouldn't have that nickname. Unless they lived in a forest like I donno 90% of the rest of fire countries clans lol. If you only needed to live in a forest to get that nickname it doesn't have much meaning then does it.

Most probably YS had it too, he was afterall the original embodiment of the Jūbi's Yang power.

Also Madara was insulting Tsunade for being a weak Senju not having Mokuton which implies that Mokuton is an exclusive Senju trait.

 

[FearxDeath]

Also Madara was insulting Tsunade for being a weak Senju not having Mokuton which implies that Mokuton is an exclusive Senju trait.

REALLY good observation. I remember seeing this and thinking "Huh what did he just say..." but I actually forgot that this happened. Dont get me wrong, a very good case can be made that more Senju members had Mokuton. I guess at this point I am just being skeptical as oppose to arguing against it.

But keep in mind that Kekkie Genkia although the occurance of a Kekkia Genkia is random it is still bloodborne. Meaning that even though Hashirama may have obtained Mokuton at random it can still be assumed that his offspring would inherit said Kekkie Genkia.

For those who dont remember this here is the scan:

Spoiler

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