[Theory] Awakening The "True" Susano'o

Draxus

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The color scheme has never once been used for a genjutsu that isn't either Itachi's Tsukuyomi, or Sasuke's Dreamscape. This isn't even debatable. He brought out the realm in which Tsukuyomi has ALWAYS been used. This realm has been tied directly to the technique, therefore there is correlation whether or not you want to admit it. Sasuke used his right eye for that genjutsu on Itachi, his left will be where Tsukuyomi is rooted in, just as Itachi's is. As his first ever use of genjutsu with his left Mangekyou took place after Itachi's eyes were transferred, he will eventually work it up to the level of Tsukuyomi that is Itachi's. Same applies to Madara. He didn't need Tsukuyomi as he was simply toying with the Gokage.

Wrong.

I'm not sure why you're prattling on about the color scheme, didn't say anything about that. Why Madara didn't use tsukuyomi is pure conjecture, the point is I'm correct in that he hasn't ever used it despite having an opportunity to. However your reasoning is weak as hell an you know it. Madara was toying with them, yes, but that didn't prevent him from showing off his best moves either.

Danzo's hand only looked like that because it was a flashback, never during the fight when he actually used the genjutsu was the color scheme different. It's pretty ridiculous to think pretty much the whole 2nd half of Danzo and Sasuke's fight was all in a dream realm.

Finally, the databook is specifically talking about Itatchi's susano'o as his was the only one when the book came out. The info is outdated and I think people should reference the manga first.
 

The Robot With Human Hair

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True, its definitely possible that Madara doesn't consider his techniques outside of Susanoo necessary considering the strength and flexibility his Susanoo provides.

People speak about the CS and how it could allow Sasuke to surpass Madara, but Sasuke having the Perfect Susanoo in combination with his high level Enton would be enough to put him above Madara's (EMS) level.

That's true, and Tobirama stated that he is an Uchiha with the same potential of Madara. CS is additive, PS is Madara's true potential as an Uchiha, so I'm assuming that he is referring to his potential with Susano'o and his other Mangekyou Sharingan techniques. Although I believe that his potential to utilize CS/SM is likely what Orochimaru is speaking of in him surpassing Madara.

I'm not sure why you're prattling on about the color scheme, didn't say anything about that. Why Madara didn't use tsukuyomi is pure conjecture, the point is I'm correct in that he hasn't ever used it despite having an opportunity to. However your reasoning is weak as hell an you know it. Madara was toying with them, yes, but that didn't prevent him from showing off his best moves either.

Danzo's hand only looked like that because it was a flashback, never during the fight when he actually used the genjutsu was the color scheme different. It's pretty ridiculous to think pretty much the whole 2nd half of Danzo and Sasuke's fight was all in a dream realm.

Finally, the databook is specifically talking about Itatchi's susano'o as his was the only one when the book came out. The info is outdated and I think people should reference the manga first.

Then why don't you give me any evidence to support that Madara does not have Amaterasu or Tsukuyomi? The Databooks description and the mythology of the three noble children are more than enough evidence in my favor, while you have, "he could have done this." Which is strictly irrelevant as you're also assuming that he has other ocular jutsus that he has in fact never used at any rate. Your argument is completely founded on sand, and you're accusing me of prattling on? Of course it's conjecture, it's a theory.

The genjutsu Danzo was caught in was the realm of Tsukuyomi, not debatable. Same with Bee but you're completely ignoring what is right in your face.

Yes, that's why the quote quite clearly infers general use.
 
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Draxus

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Then why don't you give me any evidence to support that Madara does not have Amaterasu or Tsukuyomi? The Databooks description and the mythology of the three noble children are more than enough evidence in my favor, while you have, "he could have done this." Which is strictly irrelevant as you're also assuming that he has other ocular jutsus that he has in fact never used at any rate. Your argument is completely founded on sand, and you're accusing me of prattling on? Of course it's conjecture, it's a theory.

The genjutsu Danzo was caught in was the realm of Tsukuyomi, not debatable. Same with Bee but you're completely ignoring what is right in your face.

Yes, that's why the quote quite clearly infers general use.

When did i say Madara doesn't have Amaretsu or Tsukuyomi? I merely stated the facts are he hasn't used it even though he could/should have, and that should be enough to put the databook into question. I'm not ignoring anything, I'm just stating facts. You accuse me of building arguments on sand, when I have done no such thing. You're fight your own shadow here, so yeah it's a bit prattling as you're debating points I've never made. I think you're own insecurity about your theory is making you see enemies in the trees, my friend. The only thing I said is I don't think perfect susano'o has anything to do with mastering tsukiyomi or amaretsu or other MS abilities period, it has to do with stabilizing full susano'o.

Speaking of quotes... Sasuke has said the name of every special ability he's ever used except Tsukiyomi... no one finds this abnormal in a manga where people constantly shout out the names of abilities they use, especially the first time they do? Why would Kishi be so ambiguous? It just doesn't seem concrete to me is all, so yeah it's debatable, but I didn't once say he DOESN'T have the ability. I just said he didn't use it against Danzo. The genjustu used on Danzo falls in line of what we seen from normal sharingan genjutsu much more than what we know of Tsukiyomi, it was much more subtle. Danzo wasn't in some realm like B, he was fighting Sasuke. It was similar to the beginning of the Sasuke/Itachi fight. The panel you reference was a flashback, it never happened in the actual fight.
 
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The Robot With Human Hair

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When did i say Madara doesn't have Amaretsu or Tsukuyomi? I merely stated the facts are he hasn't used it even though he could/should have, and that should be enough to put the databook into question. I'm not ignoring anything, I'm just stating facts. You accuse me of building arguments on sand, when I have done no such thing. You're fight your own shadow here, so yeah it's a bit prattling as you're debating points I've never made. I think you're own insecurity about your theory is making you see enemies in the trees, my friend. The only thing I said is I don't think perfect susano'o has anything to do with mastering tsukiyomi or amaretsu or other MS abilities period, it has to do with stabilizing full susano'o.

Speaking of quotes... Sasuke has said the name of every special ability he's ever used except Tsukiyomi... no one finds this abnormal in a manga where people constantly shout out the names of abilities they use, especially the first time they do? Why would Kishi be so ambiguous? It just doesn't seem concrete to me is all, so yeah it's debatable, but I didn't once say he DOESN'T have the ability. I just said he didn't use it against Danzo. The genjustu used on Danzo falls in line of what we seen from normal sharingan genjutsu much more than what we know of Tsukiyomi, it was much more subtle. Danzo wasn't in some realm like B, he was fighting Sasuke. It was similar to the beginning of the Sasuke/Itachi fight. The panel you reference was a flashback, it never happened in the actual fight.

You obviously haven't read my theory given the nonsense you're spouting off in the 2nd paragraph. I have never once stated that Sasuke has used Tsukuyomi. I am saying that he can use the realm in which Tsukuyomi is derived from. If you had read, you'd understand this.

Again, the fact that Madara "could/should" have used this, isn't a viable argument as you'd be assuming Madara has access to two other Mangekyou Sharingan techniques that he "could/should" have used. Your logic doesn't apply as it's simply lacking. You're trying to discredit my theory with anecdotal evidence, while I have explained how and why Kishimoto would want these techniques to form a pair, read post #11, and the Databooks state quite clearly that they do. You seem to be flattering yourself, as though you have honestly brought any substantial evidence, and made me feel "insecure", which is, well, laughable when it's quite obvious that you never even read my theory in the first place. This is why I told you your argument is built on sand "When did i say Madara doesn't have Amaretsu or Tsukuyomi?" Because you don't even have an argument, you're simply trying to discredit my theory. While you have no evidence to the contrary.
 
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Draxus

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You obviously haven't read my theory given the nonsense you're spouting off in the 2nd paragraph. I have never once stated that Sasuke has used Tsukuyomi. I am saying that he can use the realm in which Tsukuyomi is derived from. If you had read, you'd understand this.

Again, the fact that Madara "could/should" have used this, isn't a viable argument as you'd be assuming Madara has access to two other Mangekyou Sharingan techniques that he "could/should" have used. Your logic doesn't apply as it's simply lacking. You're trying to discredit my theory with anecdotal evidence, while I have explained how and why Kishimoto would want these techniques to form a pair, read post #11, and the Databooks state quite clearly that they do. You seem to be flattering yourself, as though you have honestly brought any substantial evidence, and made me feel "insecure", which is, well, laughable when it's quite obvious that you never even read my theory in the first place. This is why I told you your argument is built on sand "When did i say Madara doesn't have Amaretsu or Tsukuyomi?" Because you don't even have an argument, you're simply trying to discredit my theory. While you have no evidence to the contrary.

What's wrong with discrediting a theory w/o providing a counter theory? You presented a theory, it's your onus to counter dissenting info. I don't have to have another theory to NOT believe yours. The reason you keep bringing up the fact I said he had opportunities to use both techniques but didn't, is because it's a huge hole in you theory and you have no real answer for it. You say it's anecdotal when it is manga fact, and your counter points derived from mythology that isn't part of the story and an old databook that was created as reference long before any other MS user appeared in the manga. The names make sense because when they were created Itachi was the only MS user and we all though HE named them. However just because that Kishi's original intent doesn't mean he wanted to expand on that idea.

You did have a similar counter, and it's weak, "Oh... he didn't use it cuz he was toying with the gokage. Even though he dropped 2 meteors on them and created a giant forest and used his most powerful technique, PS... so ya know he was holding back his all powerful MS tech's", sure doesn't sound sandy to me. My bad!

You're right I didn't read your whole theory because it got boring/my eyes started to hurt half-way through and I skipped to the end about perfect susano'o which is the only thing I really commented on. However you felt the manga facts I stated discredited the whole of you theory, and hey... perhaps they do, but again not my intent. I just felt like stating the facts that get brought up every time this thread is re-done in all it's iterations.

You misunderstand, I'm not saying I'M making you insecure. I'm saying you already were and you're projecting onto me. I didn't read enough of your theory to really make an earnest attempt at discrediting it.

I though this thread was about Perfect Susano'O, however now that you revealed you think Sasuke's genjutsu takes people to "nightmare realm" as if it's a actual place, I'm no longer going to comment as that is pretty ridiculous sounding to me. xd
 
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The Robot With Human Hair

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What's wrong with discrediting a theory w/o providing a counter theory? You presented a theory, it's your onus to counter dissenting info. I don't have to have another theory to NOT believe yours. The reason you keep bringing up the fact I said he had opportunities to use both techniques but didn't, is because it's a huge hole in you theory and you have no real answer for it. You say it's anecdotal when it is manga fact, and your counter points derived from mythology that isn't part of the story and an old databook that was created as reference long before any other MS user appeared in the manga. The names make sense because when they were created Itachi was the only MS user and we all though HE named them. However just because that Kishi's original intent doesn't mean he wanted to expand on that idea.

You did have a similar counter, and it's weak, "Oh... he didn't use it cuz he was toying with the gokage. Even though he dropped 2 meteors on them and created a giant forest and used his most powerful technique, PS... so ya know he was holding back his all powerful MS tech's", sure doesn't sound sandy to me. My bad!

You're right I didn't read your whole theory because it got boring/my eyes started to hurt half-way through and I skipped to the end about perfect susano'o which is the only thing I really commented on. However you felt the manga facts I stated discredited the whole of you theory, and hey... perhaps they do, but again not my intent. I just felt like stating the facts that get brought up every time this thread is re-done in all it's iterations.

You misunderstand, I'm not saying I'M making you insecure. I'm saying you already were and you're projecting onto me. I didn't read enough of your theory to really make an earnest attempt at discrediting it.

I though this thread was about Perfect Susano'O, however now that you revealed you think Sasuke's genjutsu takes people to "nightmare realm" as if it's a actual place, I'm no longer going to comment as that is pretty ridiculous sounding to me. xd

Already. Countered. 3. Times.

Already countered.

Then you really shouldn't have posted. I already countered your point, and you've never provided a counter point.

What am I projecting? Apathy would be the correct answer. Insecurity? Well, not only is this observation erroneous but it's pushed this argument into ad hominem, which I'm done with.

It's the world of the mind, not an actual place, as you should have inferred from the Databook statement which I have quoted in the OP.

I don't need your thoughts on this, please do stop commenting.

EDIT- And no, I don't feel that any of your points have succeeded in discrediting my theory in any way, don't worry, they're all very irrelevant. Again, this is a theory, you stating the "facts" which are irrelevant to the supposition of my thread will no longer be responded to if you choose to do so.
 
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The Robot With Human Hair

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I've edited the OP with a new conclusion and some added information on what exactly I am trying to get across. Sorry for the double post.
 

tysoncs

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tbh if sasuke awakens perfect susanoo atm..wat will be the difference between madara and sasuke..
sasuke will have perfect amaterasu..i think!!
 

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when i read the title.. the 1st thing came out of my mind is "the awakening of the trailblazer",<- its a Gundam 00 movie.. darn it
 
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