[Debate Tournament] FemmeFatale vs. Erin / Tsunade vs. Kakuzu

[Invsblphntm]

Round 1: Match 13 of the Debate Tournament​

Location: Forest of Dead Trees

Distance: 50 metres

Preparations: Off

Weather: Clear

Judge: Invsblphntm

Rules:

Spoiler

Characters (already chosen so ignore)
There will be only one character in versus allowed for the first rounds to mix things up a bit we will be implementing varying limitations to stop strong character spam needless to say the juubi is off limits including everyone from the Ootsutsuki clan (first+second generation),rinnegan users and perfect sage mode users everyone else is permitted if they have been in that form in the manga.There will be two presets decided by the judges for character selection choose your own and specific group to choose from like konoha 11.

Way to win
In versus the player loses a round when they can't get out of a the situation their opponent describes for example Itachi uses Amateseru and the opponent uses Water style on himself. Another way to win is if your opponent provides false evidence that will count as being unable to defend themselves. Your posts can be disproven so be careful with what you post!

Disqualifications and Forfeiting
If a player does not stick to the the times agreed with the judges given they will be automatically disqualified barring special circumstances. You may also be disqualified for trolling, excessive abusive language , arguing against clear evidence , spamming , ignoring the post count etc. no one should have any problems following basic common sense.

Post count
5-10

Chakra Limit
Manga Feats

Time Limit
Unlimited during the tournament.

To Begin
Both debators must declare their ready.

Turns
In your draw it should be stated who is going first.

Movement
You cannot sneak attack your opponent nor can you post ridiculous movesets that they haven't shown in the manga. If they cant do it the manga don't bother ( exp . Itachi jumps back in the air using totsuka from 100 metres away) if they have done that movement in the manga its ok.

Prep
On or Off depending on participants it will be naturally Off

Knowledge
Everything

Tools and Weapons
Anything they have used in the manga

Evidence
Scans need to be provided for every point made it is not sufficient to just say Ninja X did something it must be proven without reasonable doubt like they say in court.

Hype
A lot of clear strong evidence must be provided to stand as a rule of thumb we won't accept it.

Summary
Rules will be a hypothetical fight intending to kill there will be three rounds you lose a round if your character dies not being able to defend themselves via the method you described. A vote will happen if there is no winner by the end of the post count with each judge giving one name whoever has the most votes wins that round.

And by extension:

Spoiler

A debate would look something like this

Player A- Nagato will beat Madara because he can't stop a chibaku tensei hes also a master of yin release so Madara can't put him under genjutsu

Player B- I disagree show me where Nagato is a yin release master (requests evidence) also Madara could slice Chibaku tensei in half with perfect susanoo( provides evidence) how could Nagato block a blow from perfect susanoo?

Player A- ( provides evidence for yin release)Nagato could just use Asura path to block perfect susanoo etc. etc.

Player B- Asura can't block perfect susanoo( shows evidence) (requests a round win)

Judges award Player B the round

Two main ways you can win

-Proving that a opponent can't block a move you put forward

-Disproving the evidence your opponent has given

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vs.

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FemmeFatale will be representing Tsunade and Erin will be representing Kakuzu.

As FemmeFatale won the coin toss, she may post first.

No breaking the rules of this tournament nor the rules of this website, and avoid character/member bashing.

 

[FemmeFatale]

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Time to Debate​

Spoiler

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At 50 meters apart Tsunade would probably taunt Kakuzu about defeating him, something witty about her grandfather and then give ready to make her first move.

Because Tsunade has full knowledge on Kakuzu she will know about his fight with her grandfather... though that information will be useless, seeing as how not much information was said about that battle. She knows about the 4? hearts on his back and that the are able to emit deadly and power elemental attacks, and some even take forms of creatures of some sort. She would activate her seal, starting in Creation Rebirth, take a leap, and come at him with a heavily kick of Pain. She will beat him if her kick makes contact with his body. Of course he see her attack coming and dodges it. Tsunade smashes the ground with her kick, the ground breaks alot, due to the impact. Kakuzu knows that long range attacks will be his best bet against her, So he uses the Earth Grudge Fear, and changes into his monstrous form.

Tsunade would think quickly about what to do, she carries no ninja weapon, and that jutsu he uses on let her get close enough to him. So she would have to turn his advantage into his weakness.

Kakuzu mind set will be that he can't let Tsunade touch him or he will Parrish, much like how he was with Naruto and the rasengan thingy.

The only thingy is that Tsunade doesn't have shadow clones to distract him, but she doesn't need them, she already has an amount of invulnerability since her seal is active. Tsunade runs towards Kakuzu counting on him to use on of his tendrils to attempt to stop her with. Kakuzu will fall for her trap in attempts to save himself and Tsunade and either catch it or it will bind her and then she catches it...it doesn't really matter.

It's possible, Orochimaru tongue and those things moves at about the same speeds. And beside Tsunade was counting on this and she has evasive skills, seeing as how she was the on who train Sakura in them.

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So this can so either way (for her at this point) she can do want she did to Orochimaru then yank him and punch him, after that destroying his hearts.

She can uses her body pathway technique on him, sending it down with tendrils, ultimately immobilizing him making him an easy kill.

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She can even pull him to her and hit him with one of the BPD
or She probably can send it through the tendrils.

We know that the fire attack isn't effective against Tsunade. She tanked on of Madara's power fire attacks.

Earth release would be his down fall and will but im at risk, so if he is smart he wont use it.

Lightning release, im pretty sure she can tank it, if she isn't avoiding it. Given that she survived that teleportation jutsu, Im pretty sure a lighting attack isn't effecting her. The Same thing goes for the wind technique.

And she can always summon Katsuyu who tanked Pein's attack.


That's about covers everything I think

 

[Erin]

Wall of text imminent.

 

[Erin]

We are waiting anxiously, Erin.

Just adding hyperlinks.

 

[Erin]

Spoiler

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Time to Debate​

Spoiler

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At 50 meters apart Tsunade would probably taunt Kakuzu about defeating him, something witty about her grandfather and then give ready to make her first move.

Because Tsunade has full knowledge on Kakuzu she will know about his fight with her grandfather... though that information will be useless, seeing as how not much information was said about that battle. She knows about the 4? hearts on his back and that the are able to emit deadly and power elemental attacks, and some even take forms of creatures of some sort. She would activate her seal, starting in Creation Rebirth, take a leap, and come at him with a heavily kick of Pain. She will beat him if her kick makes contact with his body. Of course he see her attack coming and dodges it. Tsunade smashes the ground with her kick, the ground breaks alot, due to the impact. Kakuzu knows that long range attacks will be his best bet against her, So he uses the Earth Grudge Fear, and changes into his monstrous form.

Tsunade would think quickly about what to do, she carries no ninja weapon, and that jutsu he uses on let her get close enough to him. So she would have to turn his advantage into his weakness.

Kakuzu mind set will be that he can't let Tsunade touch him or he will Parrish, much like how he was with Naruto and the rasengan thingy.

The only thingy is that Tsunade doesn't have shadow clones to distract him, but she doesn't need them, she already has an amount of invulnerability since her seal is active. Tsunade runs towards Kakuzu counting on him to use on of his tendrils to attempt to stop her with. Kakuzu will fall for her trap in attempts to save himself and Tsunade and either catch it or it will bind her and then she catches it...it doesn't really matter.

It's possible, Orochimaru tongue and those things moves at about the same speeds. And beside Tsunade was counting on this and she has evasive skills, seeing as how she was the on who train Sakura in them.

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So this can so either way (for her at this point) she can do want she did to Orochimaru then yank him and punch him, after that destroying his hearts.

She can uses her body pathway technique on him, sending it down with tendrils, ultimately immobilizing him making him an easy kill.

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She can even pull him to her and hit him with one of the BPD
or She probably can send it through the tendrils.

We know that the fire attack isn't effective against Tsunade. She tanked on of Madara's power fire attacks.

Earth release would be his down fall and will but im at risk, so if he is smart he wont use it.

Lightning release, im pretty sure she can tank it, if she isn't avoiding it. Given that she survived that teleportation jutsu, Im pretty sure a lighting attack isn't effecting her. The Same thing goes for the wind technique.

And she can always summon Katsuyu who tanked Pein's attack.


That's about covers everything I think

Kakuzu vs. Tsunade

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Kakuzu, being a mid-ranged fighter is one of the most optimal counteractions for a close ranged fighter.

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With his multiple hearts, extensive taijutsu experience and devastating elemental ninjutsu, he can defeat an opponent such as Tsunade with little risk. Mid-range fighters are special because their attacks can be potent at both long and close ranges, and can be used efficiently in vast scenarios.

Speed and Taijutsu

Kakuzu has shown several impressive speed feats, one of the most impressive being his countering of Kakashi’s Raikiri.

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A recently disabled Kakuzu was able to raise his body from the ground and completely overcome Kakashi, who was at speeds that require Sharingan level recog in order to accurately recognize occurrences .

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Not only this, but the speed one reaches when using Chidori is noted several times as being especially swift.

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He was able to not only overtake but also able to stop and apply forward momentum in order to kick Kakashi a great distance back.

Kakazu also displays great strength, and when used in conjunction with is Doton: Earth Spear he is able to cause great damage, enough to successfully buckle thick metal doors.

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Kakuzu being experienced in taijutsu has also shown various methods of dealing with close ranged opponents. This gives him an edge if he is faced with Tsunade in close quarters, as it allows him to dodge and counter her assaults in order to put distance in between him and her. With superior speed and Earth Spear he should easily be able to dodge and counter her punches.

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Earth Grudge Fear

While using earth grudge fear Kakuzu is able to control all of five hearts. This jutsu enables Kakuzu to not only tank virtually any physical attack, but also survive approximately five fatal strikes to his hearts. This allows him to die five times before he truly parishes.

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He can move his hearts around inside his body and completely detach as well as sustain great amounts of damage with no fatigue visible. Seeing the nature of tsunade’s attacks, even if she somehow breaks through his nearly flawless 1v1 defense, her attacks will only be able to destroy a maximum of one mask.

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Such an attack will also leave her wide open to his other mask’s attacks. He can extend tendrils from the main mass of thread like tentacles and has full control of all of them.

Since earth grudge fear in its full form is not optimal for Kakuzu, in a battle with Tsunade he will only need to use his original and secondary form, to keep out of a stationary position.

Ninjutsu
"Perfect Mastery"

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Earth Spear
Earth Release: Earth Spear is a jutsu Kakuzu can use to render any physical attack useless.

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Not only can he use it in conjunction with his attacks, but he use is near instantly, even under great confusion as seen during his fight with Team 10 and other leaf jounin.

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He is also able to use earth spear on every part of his body, meaning even in the face of a surprise attack he can still guard against the strike.

He can use earth speak offensively and defensively against Tsunade. When used in conjunction with his taijutsu prowess and speed he can guard off Tsunade’s attacks as well as project her backwards with a well-placed kick, as seen with Kakashi, seeing as her strength has no effect on her actual weight.

Ninjutsu: Fuuton

Kakuzu’s Fuuton is arguably among the most powerful fuuton in the manga. It has been shown to break and shatter great trees that are approximately 9 meters thick. (See Calculations).

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His Fuuton is a powerful blast of air pressure much like a vacuum blast, it is compacted and then released for immense damage; few characters can hope to stand their ground against this attack and Tsunade is no exception. Though Tsunade is able to focus her on her feet to stay secure during such attacks, the powerful wind also gouges and rends the earth, removing the very ground from beneath her and sending her sprawling backwards.

Kakuzu can use his Fuuton attacks via his wind mask at close and medium ranges for efficiency, when Tsunade enters and undesirable range this wide radial attack will launch her backwards giving Kakuzu adequate room to launch further ninjutsu attacks. His Fuuton mask can also become airborne, keeping it out of harm’s way indefinitely.


Ninjutsu: Katon
Kakazu’s Katon is also a tremendous force. Though Tsunade can survive such an attack using Byakugou, she will take heavy damage. Used in conjunction with his wind mask, Kakuzu is able to create a destructive Katon powerful enough to completely nullify a suiton jutsu of greater than or equal size and rank.

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This is a feat very few if any have been able to accomplish, as suiton is the direct superior to Katon. Seeing this, such an attack, sharing similar properties to Katon: Searing Migrane will slow and deter Tsunade, causing large amounts of damage of up to 21 Kilotons of energy dispersion (See calculations).

The most dangerous Katon Kakuzu possesses in Katon: Searing Migrane.

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This attack is extremely potent and travels rapidly across the ground in a wide spread. Its flames take way an enemy’s footing and erupt tremendously. At approximately 21 kilotons of energy, the flames vaporize great 51 meter tall trees (see calculations).

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Seeing the attack starts out in a much smaller state, it is easy for Tsunade to underestimate the flames and be caught in the sudden eruption. The heavy damage will undoubtable deter her and leave her open to further ninjutsu attacks.

Ninjutsu: Raiton

Kakuzu’s Raiton is extremely deadly when properly landed. While such an attack is not wide and more easily dodged, it can be used in conjunction with other attacks to inflict deep cutting damage.

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Being able to cut through objects such as rock, with bolts thicker than a human arm, on contact this Raiton will cause deep lacerations that will not heal instantly. As seen with Madara’s susanoo blades, this type of deep wound will cause Tsunade internal damage that causes her to come to complete and partial stops during battle.

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While in the second scan Tsunade is at first ignoring such a strike, it is merely because the blades staying in body hold organs in place and reduce blood loss (in comparison to an open wound). Unlike the blades the Raiton will leave large open wounds that will cause great internal and external bleeding.



Kakuzu’s Katon Potency Calculations courtesy of “Unknown”

Spoiler

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9.11
1.62

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Height: 50.11 meters


The number of burned trees on panel 2, for the high end I'm gonna guess that all the trees in the panel were burned.
I'm gonna try my own hand at getting the size of the crater here unknown. Let me know what I did different from you and how you scaled it.

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The depth of the crater looks to be around half of hidan's height who is 1.771 meters tall making crater depth 0.88 meters. For the full diameter of the crater it should be at least as big as the size of the fire attack.




Tree height = purple line = 193 pixels = 50.11 meters

Fire attack diameter = yellow line = 626 pixels = 162 meters

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Plug in my values into this and the volume is 9069.63.

Using pulverization, 9069.63 x 1,000,000 x 214.35 = 1.9440752e+12 = 464.645 tons of tnt Add that makes the total energy with the 1 tree burned at 10.6+ kilotons if I'm not mistaken.

Using melting, 9069.63 x 1,000,000 x 5,000 = 10.8385 kilotons. add that to the tree and the total energy is 21+ kilotons if I'm not mistaken.

I'm still not sure whether we can use vaporization so I won't include that at the moment.

I personally think we should go with at least melting though.

Volume of the trees: 26130.1 m^3/tree
Volume of wood: 13065.04 m^3 = 7,839,029.157 kg of wood
Volume of water: 13065.04 m^3 = 13,065,040 kg of water

Supposing 30ºC initial temperature:

7839029.157 kg of wood *870 ºC * 1360 J/kg wood ºC= 9,275,139,298,000 J

13065040 kg water *70 ºC* 4181.3 J/kg ºC= 3,924,019,623,000 J

Latent heat: 29,526,990,400,000 J

Total energy for the tree = 42,726,149,320,000 J = 10.211 Kt of tnt equivalent

For all the trees in the panel: 25.5525 Kt of tnt

Ninjutsu Concomitance

With Kakuzu’s extremely potent elemental ninjutsu components. He can easily control the battle and provide himself with comfortable distances to launch daunting attacks against Tsunade. With his Fuuton he can easily knock Tsunade back, while dazed or disoriented he can launch Katon and Raiton attacks to wear Tsunade down. Though Tsunade’s Byakugou provides regeneration from most of his singular attacks, combinations of ninjutsu with both burning and deep cutting damage will force her to be constantly regenerating with vain hopes of reaching Kakuzu.

The constant regeneration would begin to drain her stamina, severely cutting down her overall time for Byakugou’s use. Unlike in her battle with Madara she would constantly and consistently sustain heavy damage, eventually rendering her exhausted.

Byakugou

Kakuzu’s only true obstacle is Tsunade’s Byakugou. When releasing the seal she can near quickly regenerate new cells from light attacks and swiftly, though not nearly as quickly regenerate cells from heavy attacks.

Tsunade activated Byakugou during the battle with Madara. Though she had already used stamina previously during the day, such energy did not affect her seal, which had been for the most part untapped. She was able to use it from the late hours of the day until the sun had set.

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during this time she had only four notable regeneration feats for the jutsu’s provided chakra.

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She was able to tank one deep strike, and two more deep strikes, a Large Katon and transfer chakra into Oonoki, whether she was using her own bodily chakra or that of the seals is unknown.

Seeing that the Raikage was astonished and worried to see Tsunade taking heavy damage that she couldn’t shrug off, it is safe to assume that other off panel occurrences such as this were little to none, since he was so astonished that he lost focus and was put in a genjutsu (Implying that he was shocked because this was one of the few times something of this nature happened, and that it was extremely urgent). Knowing this, Tsunade with minimal life threatening wounds and a large chakra transfer was able to sustain her jutsu for no longer than an hour or so.

This estimation is derived by the approximate time of on panel feats as well rough estimation of off panel feats. Since that the battle started late in the day and she ran out during shortly after sunset, it is safe to assume, with consideration of on panel occurrences that the total time the seal was active was not extremely long.

Tsunade’s Unawareness
One thing that is a large problem for Tsunade is her lack of awareness on how much chakra she has left in her seal. During her fight with Madara she hastily deflected Katon attacks without realizing that she had run out of chakra.

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Seeing as she will be constantly regenerating during this battle, her lack of awareness will be he demise. Not only does she sustain all damage she currently has during its deactivation stage (during which she is completely unaware, as Mei needed to remind her that she was running out), but she also completely faints. With this Kakuzu is free to completely obliterate her body with several certain death hits at once. At this point even Katsuya’s action wouldn’t be fast enough to save her.

Katsuya
Katsuya is no obstacle to Kakuzu. He can easily keep her at bay with his Katon: Searing Migrane. Katsuya is a support type that can use a simple acid spray that can easily be dodged or nullified by Kakuzu’s ninjutsu if she can even get close enough without being in harm’s way. Tsunade is rarely seen using Katsuya direct combat, and never seen using her (she may be waiting on the battlefield but never being used directly) while she is attempting to engage in close quarter combat.

If Katsuya comes within an undesirable range of him this attack will pose a huge threat, and if she is wise she will not come near the fight’s epicenter. Because of Searing Migrane’s wide range, Katsuya cannot avoid it even by dispersing via meiosis, as it will vaporize the entire area, damaging all Katsuya indefinitely. Kuchiyose also has a time limit, which means Katsuya will not be able to stay on the battlefield indefinitely.

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If Tsunade attempts to flee to Katsuya Kakuzu can simply attack Katsuya with his Katon, Raiton or Fuuton. He can also extend a tendril to catch her and then use his Elemental attacks on her directly.

Stamina
While Tsunade has great stamina, Kakuzu also has quite impressive reserves. He can use all of his hearts simultaneously, while using high level Katon, Fuuton, Doton and Raiton Jutsu’s while showing little fatigue even towards the end of the fight (With Kakashi, Naruto, Yamato and the remaining members of Team 10). He can easily keep up with Tsunade especially when she is being forced to constantly regenerate from his offensive onslaught.

Conclusion and Play-out

The battle will be long but ultimately free of risk for Kakuzu. He can easily keep her at any distance he pleases by using his Elemental Masks to keep her at bay. She won't be able to get in striking range because of his powerful Fuuton. In the face of her taijutsu if she happens to break through his defenses he can block her attacks with a combination of taijutsu and Doton: Earth Spear, and even then she will need to find and strike each of his hearts, a total of five hits. He can do great amounts of damage that will deter her and force her to use copious amounts of regeneration. After she is worn down there is nothing but certain death waiting for her, she cannot determine when she will run out of the seal's chakra and will faint on the spot, leaving her open to fatal attacks. Katsuya will be left unable to help because of the certain injury she will sustain if she comes close to the battle.

 

[FemmeFatale]

Im not done with the this post but I will leave you with this.
The hearts aren't doing a thing to Tsunade or they will get blitz like those Sasunoo Clones did.

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[Erin]

LMAO.
But I'm pretty sure she was a boy in January. What changed???

Off Debate Record: I didn't set my gender until march. =_=

 

[Erin]

And like others, I did notice that Erin had male on the bar before...... Was it an accident or something?

Well, I didn't have a gender bar when I first started posting, since when I first signed up I was only going to briefly comment on a few threads. Hence my original name "1timeonly". After I got a new ava in march I started posting more and some point after that I got one. Never had it male, unless your confusing me with

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who is male.

 

[Cosman]

I could make the argument that the others are discouraging the other debater into not replying, but I can kinda see where you're going. Just so bored that my opponent's taking so long! When's he gonna post his reply?!

I feel you man, but it's best to just stay clear of the other threads for now. We had way too much weird stuff going on on a few of these.

 

[Sennin of Logic]

This is Zexion we're talking about; Stubborn as a mule! He never admits defeat!

He'll have one heck of a time disproving my statements since the manga backs up every single one.


Edit: He's offline, so he's apparently not working on a counter.

 

[Fodder#4]

He'll have one heck of a time disproving my statements since the manga backs up every single one.


Edit: He's offline, so he's apparently not working on a counter.

He's at school most likely. And, I wouldn't be undermining Zex'. He'll find ways ta' disprove ya

 

[Optimistic]

He'll have one heck of a time disproving my statements since the manga backs up every single one.

Zexion solos.

 

[Crossroads]

I'm just waiting on Femme's futile response to Erin's great opener.

@TheEvilOne, this is why people dislike you.

It would actually overjoy me to debate against Erin if we both make it that far..

 

[Sennin of Logic]

He's at school most likely. And, I wouldn't be undermining Zex'. He'll find ways ta' disprove ya

Then I'll prick apart his argument like I did before. :snick: Don't underestimate my abilities either. For the record, I am doing school, I just have an unusual school that doesn't have classes everyday but gives me the same homework.

 

[-PK-]

Hey can i use erin's calculation if i wanted to in my debate ?

 

[TheEvilOne]

I'm just waiting on Femme's futile response to Erin's great opener.

@TheEvilOne, this is why people dislike you.

It would actually overjoy me to debate against Erin if we both make it that far..

Because I proved you were wrong about the Byakugou's time limit?

 

[Crossroads]

Because I proved you were wrong about the Byakugou's time limit?

All you did was spew your fanfiction nonsense.

I countered it and you left the argument as it was, based on assumption.

Tsunade fans are on molly.

 

[Bijuu Bomber]

Then I'll prick apart his argument like I did before. :snick: Don't underestimate my abilities either. For the record, I am doing school, I just have an unusual school that doesn't have classes everyday but gives me the same homework.

I underestimate people who are overly cocky.

 

[TheEvilOne]

All you did was spew your fanfiction nonsense.

I countered it and you left the argument as it was, based on assumption.

Tsunade fans are on molly.

You didn't countered shit.

 

[Crossroads]

You didn't countered shit.

I told you that it could be 7:00 and sunny and bright outside, and 1 hours and 30 minutes later, be completely dark.

You followed that up with.

"Well, it at least lasts more than 1-2 hours"

When you really have absolutely no idea.

But come child, this isn't the place to debate, it's reserved for Erin solo'ing Femme.