[Discussion] Shinji Hirako vs. Shunsui Kyoraku

[kotoamatsukami]

No it wore off. You dont have to figure it out it for the effects to wear off, Aizen didnt use any kido to dispel it or anything it just dissapeared. The pollen has to come around from somewhere and that is his sword. If Shunsui just aims it at Shinji it will dispel it. You know that if Shunsui blows it with wind that the smell will go with it. Did you not read what I just said that the smell is a parcel of the air and if it is disrupted it will scatter.

You want proof of Ukitake not fighting being able to fight for a long time? Here take it:

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Shunsui was pretending and wasnt really hurt other than a few scuffles. He was waiting for an opening created by Love and Rose to use Kage oni and perform a sneak attack. The same way Stark used Wonderweiss as a distraction and opening to perform a sneak attack on Shunsui. He tanked it and stalked his prey until the perfect moment.

Here Shinji has a patch on his eye:

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He was defeated by the quincy and I am sure he used his shikai because the quincy are far too strong for the Shinigami in base.

Shunsui is very analytical much like Aizen and after a while of Shinji using his shikai Shunsui would figure it out.

Barragan had just died and Love said that Stark was the kind to get demoralized, So Stark wasnt moving as fast so Love was able to get the hit. It wasnt until Lillynette told him to fight because it was the only thing he could do that he went on to mess up Love and Rose.

No it did not wear off aizen just figured out how it works then cut shinji then ichigo came an what not..yea the pollen comes from his sword we don't kno how fast it spreads or how long it takes for the smell to get to you and if he does aim bushogoma at shinji he can just flash step out the way..and did you not read what I said its just not gone in front of shinji no it spreads around..

And yea ur proof failed this was so long ago he showed no signs of struggle vs starrk or against yamamoto.what you linked just happen for the sake of the storie I'm pretty sure we won't see that happen again.an plus he said he has delt with thousands of cero before I'm pretty sure one won't keep him down..an I bet he puts up a good long fight vs the quinces.

What lol that little ass patch he probly got scratched or something like that he's no like everybody else that got they head wrapped or an real eye patch (kyoraku)..what Quincy did he fight? How many did he fight?..did you see him fight? Lol naw how you just one say he lost?

Like I said this ain't no anime fight shinji don't have to just make little cuts till kyoraku figures things out..shinji may deliver a finishing blow with just two hits an kyoraku brain is not like aizen's so he will take longer to figure it out.

Yea he went on to win cuz they were holding back an while stark was useing his strongest technique they wer going to whip his ass no matter what if he kept out that cero gun..kyoraku beat him cuz he took away his main power the only thing he was left with was two swords.

 

[crackpot]

No it did not wear off aizen just figured out how it works then cut shinji then ichigo came an what not..yea the pollen comes from his sword we don't kno how fast it spreads or how long it takes for the smell to get to you and if he does aim bushogoma at shinji he can just flash step out the way..and did you not read what I said its just not gone in front of shinji no it spreads around..

And yea ur proof failed this was so long ago he showed no signs of struggle vs starrk or against yamamoto.what you linked just happen for the sake of the storie I'm pretty sure we won't see that happen again.an plus he said he has delt with thousands of cero before I'm pretty sure one won't keep him down..an I bet he puts up a good long fight vs the quinces.

What lol that little ass patch he probly got scratched or something like that he's no like everybody else that got they head wrapped or an real eye patch (kyoraku)..what Quincy did he fight? How many did he fight?..did you see him fight? Lol naw how you just one say he lost?

Like I said this ain't no anime fight shinji don't have to just make little cuts till kyoraku figures things out..shinji may deliver a finishing blow with just two hits an kyoraku brain is not like aizen's so he will take longer to figure it out.

Yea he went on to win cuz they were holding back an while stark was useing his strongest technique they wer going to whip his ass no matter what if he kept out that cero gun..kyoraku beat him cuz he took away his main power the only thing he was left with was two swords.

You keep saying things as if they would happen like Shinji can just flashstep away.... We havent seen him do any of the sort so stop making things up in your head. The only time we have seen Shinji use release that pollen is when he is stationary we havent seen him move so you cant say that without proof. You also dont know if it spreads out or goes straight to the opponent. Remember in the team battle Shinji used his shikai but it only affected Aizen and Hitsugaya was able to stab him (was actually Hinamori), so I have a hard time it spreads out like you said but doesnt affect the other captains.

Proof is proof you cant deny it because it is there. You cant keep denying facts because that makes your argument worse because you are not providing facts.... You are just making up scenarios in youre head saying "Shinji will probably just flash step" when we havent seen him move and release the pollen at the same time. We also dont know the duration of Shunsui and Yamas fight because it was off paneled. Ukitake also didnt deal with a thousand ceros... He dealed with one, the other thousand were flying past him. Ukitake cant fight prolonged fights nor can he push himself.

He fought and got hurt didnt he? He lost like all the other Shinigami and didnt win. Shunsui would have killed the old guy in their first meeting. It was only because the Old guy used his Vollstandig that he hit Shunsui in the eye (Which Shunsui also managed to slip out of, if he didnt react it would have blown his head off)
Heres my proof:

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Here Old guy tries to blitz Shunsui, Shunsui dodges then we see his foot in the bottom left panel moving for a kick.

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Shunsui has kicked the Old guy in the stomach creating an opening and Shunsui would have killed the guy with that one strike (We know Shunsui can cut through his blut because in later chapters Shunsui sliced him wide open). The old guy then uses his Vollstandig "Grimaniel" which means walk of god in german I think and it must increase his speed dramatically.

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Shunsui gets hit in the eye by Vollstandig but still doesnt flinch.

Shunsui is the only other captain besides Yama and Zaraki that have shown they can kill a SR in shikai while the quincy is not in Vollstandig. Even later on in the fight Shunsui has shown he is a better fighter. It is only because Yama was sliced in two that he lost concentration and got shot. Even that didnt seriously injure him as he was completely fine in the captains meeting.

Even Aizen said that Shinjis shikai is no more than an optical illusion and his opponent will become accustomed to it. Aizen got it in like two goes, Shunsui will figure it out quickly as well. Remember he is sharp and a deep thinker, he was the only captain other than Shinji to suspect Aizen and this was only 100 years ago. Shunsui will figure it out quickly as well if he doesnt dispel it with Bushogoma.

And Shunsui didnt take away Starks main power.... Shunsui just didnt let Stark use it and didnt give Stark any space to use his guns, and made him use his swords instead. Stark went serious as soon as he released those wolves and after Shunsui came out of the shadow Stark kept complaining about why he had to fight such a strong opponent. If Stark used those wolves close range he would get caught up in the blast radius as well. Shunsui was playing in Starks field before when Stark had range but as soon as Shunsui closed up the gap to fight Close quarters Stark was in Shunsuis field.

 

[kotoamatsukami]

You keep saying things as if they would happen like Shinji can just flashstep away.... We havent seen him do any of the sort so stop making things up in your head. The only time we have seen Shinji use release that pollen is when he is stationary we havent seen him move so you cant say that without proof. You also dont know if it spreads out or goes straight to the opponent. Remember in the team battle Shinji used his shikai but it only affected Aizen and Hitsugaya was able to stab him (was actually Hinamori), so I have a hard time it spreads out like you said but doesnt affect the other captains.

Proof is proof you cant deny it because it is there. You cant keep denying facts because that makes your argument worse because you are not providing facts.... You are just making up scenarios in youre head saying "Shinji will probably just flash step" when we havent seen him move and release the pollen at the same time. We also dont know the duration of Shunsui and Yamas fight because it was off paneled. Ukitake also didnt deal with a thousand ceros... He dealed with one, the other thousand were flying past him. Ukitake cant fight prolonged fights nor can he push himself.

He fought and got hurt didnt he? He lost like all the other Shinigami and didnt win. Shunsui would have killed the old guy in their first meeting. It was only because the Old guy used his Vollstandig that he hit Shunsui in the eye (Which Shunsui also managed to slip out of, if he didnt react it would have blown his head off)
Heres my proof:

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Here Old guy tries to blitz Shunsui, Shunsui dodges then we see his foot in the bottom left panel moving for a kick.

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Shunsui has kicked the Old guy in the stomach creating an opening and Shunsui would have killed the guy with that one strike (We know Shunsui can cut through his blut because in later chapters Shunsui sliced him wide open). The old guy then uses his Vollstandig "Grimaniel" which means walk of god in german I think and it must increase his speed dramatically.

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Shunsui gets hit in the eye by Vollstandig but still doesnt flinch.

Shunsui is the only other captain besides Yama and Zaraki that have shown they can kill a SR in shikai while the quincy is not in Vollstandig. Even later on in the fight Shunsui has shown he is a better fighter. It is only because Yama was sliced in two that he lost concentration and got shot. Even that didnt seriously injure him as he was completely fine in the captains meeting.

Even Aizen said that Shinjis shikai is no more than an optical illusion and his opponent will become accustomed to it. Aizen got it in like two goes, Shunsui will figure it out quickly as well. Remember he is sharp and a deep thinker, he was the only captain other than Shinji to suspect Aizen and this was only 100 years ago. Shunsui will figure it out quickly as well if he doesnt dispel it with Bushogoma.

And Shunsui didnt take away Starks main power.... Shunsui just didnt let Stark use it and didnt give Stark any space to use his guns, and made him use his swords instead. Stark went serious as soon as he released those wolves and after Shunsui came out of the shadow Stark kept complaining about why he had to fight such a strong opponent. If Stark used those wolves close range he would get caught up in the blast radius as well. Shunsui was playing in Starks field before when Stark had range but as soon as Shunsui closed up the gap to fight Close quarters Stark was in Shunsuis field.

Lol so now shinji can't move lol yea he was stationary cuz he was talking to aizen,aizen did not try to attack so what's the point of moving? It's common sense that he can move when ever he wants...an the hole hitsugiya stabbing aizen thing lets you know he can control where it goes.

Well that's not good proof cuz it happen so long ago but still that's a sickness bringing him down not a cero he's a senior captain one cero not gone hurt him for long..he can fight for a long time an like I said you will see in this war, him coughing up blood rarely happens..

He got hurt not really what about the Quincy guy he fought what about his injuries..an how do you kno he lost? Give me proof?..I don't care bout kyoraku fight with the Quincy guy y bring that up kyoraku would have lost if it continued.

Um no zaraki an Yama actually killed a Quincy kyoraku did not so what you said is false and like I said early he would have lost even worst if the fight kept going..

Aizen did not say the opponent will grow accustomed to it he said once the opponent grows accustomed to it it's no more than a child's game an there's no telling when shunsui will grow accustomed to it..aizen works with illusions aswell that an he is smartest next to urahara are some reason why he broke it do quick...suspect aizen of what? The hollow thing?

Yea we been threw this before lilynette died she was basically the wolves Starks main other power source she was the guns then she took the form of thoes wolves once the guns went away an when stark got stabbed by kyoraku her voice was no longer heard again that's an indication she had died...an stark had plenty of chances to use thoes wolves if he still had them and his guns were gone..an about the range thing stark could have made space if he wanted to.

He had space an time right here to use the wolves after he cut kyoraku

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[TheBrownJonin1023]

Are you aware that to smell something that drifts with the wind it is like smoke and would be affected by drastic changes in wind speed and direction. Smell is really just water vapour drifting through the atmosphere.

Yes those wolves severely wounded them but most captains wouldnt brush off ceros from the primera like nothing.

Shunsui still has access to vision doesnt he? He can see Shinji incoming for an attack and can therefore gauge where to block from both sides. If he is only focusing on Shinji and Shinji alone then I think Shunsui can handle it because there are only two options for him to block front or back which he can cover with both blades. Now if there were more than just Shinji alone like a team fight that is when Shinjis shikai would be perfect because there would be so many variables.

Shinji had to use his mask to fight Grimjoww. He was in base but so was grimjoww and Grimjoww was missing an arm, which apparently reduced his fighting power or reiatsu so much that he lost his position as 6th espada. Shikai Shunsui also has reiatsu comparable to the first espada because of the fact that he could cut through his hierro and fight with him equally in base.

@Moe22
Shunsui is actually the perfect person for CC. He has respect from a lot of captains and most of all is able to stop quarrelling amongst them. The CC has to be the one person that everyone listens to and respects and right now SS morale is up and Shunsui has prepared an offensive. This was most shown in chapter 515 when there was discord and while Shinji, Ukitake and Komamura were all there (Three people who have good leadership and respect) They didnt do anything except watch... Komamura made things worse, than Shunsui came in and settled everything easily. Thats one of the reasons he was made CC.

Yo Crackpot well in scenario 1 Shinji has Momo Hinamori and Shinsui Had Nanao........so does this effect the outcome of match one in any way to you?

 

[crackpot]

Lol so now shinji can't move lol yea he was stationary cuz he was talking to aizen,aizen did not try to attack so what's the point of moving? It's common sense that he can move when ever he wants...an the hole hitsugiya stabbing aizen thing lets you know he can control where it goes.

Well that's not good proof cuz it happen so long ago but still that's a sickness bringing him down not a cero he's a senior captain one cero not gone hurt him for long..he can fight for a long time an like I said you will see in this war, him coughing up blood rarely happens..

He got hurt not really what about the Quincy guy he fought what about his injuries..an how do you kno he lost? Give me proof?..I don't care bout kyoraku fight with the Quincy guy y bring that up kyoraku would have lost if it continued.

Um no zaraki an Yama actually killed a Quincy kyoraku did not so what you said is false and like I said early he would have lost even worst if the fight kept going..

Aizen did not say the opponent will grow accustomed to it he said once the opponent grows accustomed to it it's no more than a child's game an there's no telling when shunsui will grow accustomed to it..aizen works with illusions aswell that an he is smartest next to urahara are some reason why he broke it do quick...suspect aizen of what? The hollow thing?

Yea we been threw this before lilynette died she was basically the wolves Starks main other power source she was the guns then she took the form of thoes wolves once the guns went away an when stark got stabbed by kyoraku her voice was no longer heard again that's an indication she had died...an stark had plenty of chances to use thoes wolves if he still had them and his guns were gone..an about the range thing stark could have made space if he wanted to.

He had space an time right here to use the wolves after he cut kyoraku

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It is not common sense because we have not seen him release the stuff and move. You are making things up to try and strengthen your argument but it is making it worse because of the fact you are making it up. Shinji also doesnt say he can control it so again you are making things up, he hasnt shown he can control it but it is of little value because Bushogoma is quite a large vortex and would disperse it. Bushogoma is the perfect way to negate it and Shunsui can close the gap to and hit Shinji while trying to release the pollen.

Proof is proof. Ukitake doesnt even make it to all the captains meetings because of his illness. Youre argument is made invalid because of the lack of proof. Over the last 100 years Ukitakes illness hasnt improved and you have no proof to say that he has got better. We have seen him cough up in one of the three fights so you cant say it rarely happens because he hasnt had a lot of fights. So again baseless assumptions.

How do you know Shinji won? The fact that Shinji came out injured means his shikai was made redundant and the quincy found a way out that is proof enough for me that his shikai was not as effective as you think. You give me proof he hurt the quincy and won?

And the panels I showed you prove that Shunsui would have killed that SR in exactly 3 moves. If the old guy didnt use Vollstandig (Quincies strongest technique, and is better than Letz stil) that old guy would have been sliced in two, try to argue that against me. You want more proof that Shunsui is the better fighter?

Spoiler

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Here Shunsui gets a little more serious and either blitzes or over powers the Old guy... The old guy is so shocked that it looks like he cant even react.

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Here Shunsui slashes right through the old guys blut (Or maybe the old guy wasnt fast enough to change from blut to arterie) and is bleeding a lot.

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Even in these next three panels Shunsui has even got the psychological advantage.

And once Shunsui becomes accustomed to it it is simple for figure out. And it wont be too hard because the answers are right in front of you. You can feel and see everything. And Shunsui is the master of Childrens games so :heh:. Shunsui had suspected Aizen and thought something was up with him, but because he saw Aizen at the barracks he then thought he was overthinking things.

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Stark couldnt have made a distance because everytime he tried Shunsui was closely behind him, minimizing the gap. And that panel really doesnt help you that was a mere few seconds and Stark was right next to him. Stark wasnt going to do anything that close to Shunsui which might create an opening. Lilynette died but she was not his main source of power. She just turned into guns he still had his power in tact and having guns when Shunsui is rushing like that would be useless.

@Brown jonin.. Hinamori has shown way more to me than nanao and I think she would win based on what we have seen..... Hinamori and Nanao when put up against people of Shunsui and Shinjis calibre they really would have no input in the fight.

 

[kotoamatsukami]

It is not common sense because we have not seen him release the stuff and move. You are making things up to try and strengthen your argument but it is making it worse because of the fact you are making it up. Shinji also doesnt say he can control it so again you are making things up, he hasnt shown he can control it but it is of little value because Bushogoma is quite a large vortex and would disperse it. Bushogoma is the perfect way to negate it and Shunsui can close the gap to and hit Shinji while trying to release the pollen.

Proof is proof. Ukitake doesnt even make it to all the captains meetings because of his illness. Youre argument is made invalid because of the lack of proof. Over the last 100 years Ukitakes illness hasnt improved and you have no proof to say that he has got better. We have seen him cough up in one of the three fights so you cant say it rarely happens because he hasnt had a lot of fights. So again baseless assumptions.

How do you know Shinji won? The fact that Shinji came out injured means his shikai was made redundant and the quincy found a way out that is proof enough for me that his shikai was not as effective as you think. You give me proof he hurt the quincy and won?

And the panels I showed you prove that Shunsui would have killed that SR in exactly 3 moves. If the old guy didnt use Vollstandig (Quincies strongest technique, and is better than Letz stil) that old guy would have been sliced in two, try to argue that against me. You want more proof that Shunsui is the better fighter?

Spoiler

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Here Shunsui gets a little more serious and either blitzes or over powers the Old guy... The old guy is so shocked that it looks like he cant even react.

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Here Shunsui slashes right through the old guys blut (Or maybe the old guy wasnt fast enough to change from blut to arterie) and is bleeding a lot.

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Even in these next three panels Shunsui has even got the psychological advantage.

And once Shunsui becomes accustomed to it it is simple for figure out. And it wont be too hard because the answers are right in front of you. You can feel and see everything. And Shunsui is the master of Childrens games so :heh:. Shunsui had suspected Aizen and thought something was up with him, but because he saw Aizen at the barracks he then thought he was overthinking things.

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Stark couldnt have made a distance because everytime he tried Shunsui was closely behind him, minimizing the gap. And that panel really doesnt help you that was a mere few seconds and Stark was right next to him. Stark wasnt going to do anything that close to Shunsui which might create an opening. Lilynette died but she was not his main source of power. She just turned into guns he still had his power in tact and having guns when Shunsui is rushing like that would be useless.

@Brown jonin.. Hinamori has shown way more to me than nanao and I think she would win based on what we have seen..... Hinamori and Nanao when put up against people of Shunsui and Shinjis calibre they really would have no input in the fight.

Lol it's common sense just leave it at that...I'm shinji does control it its his zanpacto,an you where the one that stated the fact only aizen was put in it an not hisugiya must mean shinji has some type of control..hit shinji while he's trying to release it shinji can create space useing his cero an hollow mask.

Aye like I said ukitake can fight for a good amount of time he has been shown fighting an look completely normal an healthy while doing so..an this hole thing was about if he can take a cero or not and continue to fight and yes he can all captains would if its just one cero..tanking is when you get hit an keep fighting witch kyoraku did not do.

Lol how you kno he used shikai? How you kno he fought one Quincy? For you to say he lost is just you going by what you think happen can't just come out an day he lost.

Did kyoraku win his fight? No he did not so don't put him in the same list as Yama an kenpachi people who actually won some fights vs the Quincy...but aye kyoraku can make up for it by killing jugram

He may die before growing accustomed to it he could die from 1 or 2 hits the only thing that's keeping shunsui alive in this fight for sometime is the fact they have knowledge about eachother.

The wolves wer liliynette when she died they went away for good he cold have easily had the wolves follow after kyoraku in those few seconds it don't take those wolves long to regenerate they could surround him from all sides an bite down on him so he can't move...and how is having guns while shunsui is rushing like that is pointless??? He tried to shoot kyoraku many of times at close range.

Like shown here

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[crackpot]

Lol it's common sense just leave it at that...I'm shinji does control it its his zanpacto,an you where the one that stated the fact only aizen was put in it an not hisugiya must mean shinji has some type of control..hit shinji while he's trying to release it shinji can create space useing his cero an hollow mask.

Aye like I said ukitake can fight for a good amount of time he has been shown fighting an look completely normal an healthy while doing so..an this hole thing was about if he can take a cero or not and continue to fight and yes he can all captains would if its just one cero..tanking is when you get hit an keep fighting witch kyoraku did not do.

Lol how you kno he used shikai? How you kno he fought one Quincy? For you to say he lost is just you going by what you think happen can't just come out an day he lost.

Did kyoraku win his fight? No he did not so don't put him in the same list as Yama an kenpachi people who actually won some fights vs the Quincy...but aye kyoraku can make up for it by killing jugram

He may die before growing accustomed to it he could die from 1 or 2 hits the only thing that's keeping shunsui alive in this fight for sometime is the fact they have knowledge about eachother.

The wolves wer liliynette when she died they went away for good he cold have easily had the wolves follow after kyoraku in those few seconds it don't take those wolves long to regenerate they could surround him from all sides an bite down on him so he can't move...and how is having guns while shunsui is rushing like that is pointless??? He tried to shoot kyoraku many of times at close range.

Like shown here

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No its not common sense lol. We dont know the dynamics of Sakanade, all we know is that Shinji lets the stuff out of his zanpakuto..... we dont know whether it spreads, or is controlled or streamed out slowly so it is too early for you to be making assumptions like that. Because when Shinji let the stuff out it took a while for it to get to Aizen. But you have to stop making things up in your head and then we can continue.
And Shinji using his mask and cero at the same time would make it counter productive because his cero is a strong force and would blow the pollen dust out of the way just like bushogoma k:.

Ukitake has been in 3 fights... One he was taken out in the early stages by wonderweiss, Second was against Yama which was off-panelled, and the third which was against Kaien and his sickness did take over. Shunsui took the cero and wasnt hurt too badly. The word Tank can be used in many instances not just yours. Ukitake is definitely strong but his body isnt at the moment, he might be healed though in the next few chapters because he was in that lotus spring. The lotus is normally associated with rebirth.

And simple Shinji is not strong enough to fight against a quincy in base. I have seen his base abilities and I know he couldnt have fought a quincy in base. None of the captains fought the quincy in base, even Yama used his shikai to kill "Overkill". Zaraki is in a constant shikai state like Ichigo so he is not fighting in base either, Shinji also hasnt shown the base skill level of Shunsui and Shunsui was fighting in Shikai. Ukitake was also shown using his shikai.

You know if you had actually read what I said before, we wouldnt be having this conversation about Shunsui and the old man. I didnt say he did killed him.... I said Yama, Zaraki and Shunsui are the only shinigami that have shown they 'can' kill a quincy.... as in shown they have shown the ability, I didnt say Shunsui 'did' kill a quincy which is completely different. Go back and read.

Yes having knowledge will keep him alive from the very start. But if there is no knowledge getting to know Sakanade really isnt rocket science, because you can see and feel everything around you. And Shinji will also have to figure out Shunsuis shikai as well which has its own set of problems. You will actually need to think and plan your attacks around the rules of Shunsuis shikai, which Shinji would know nothing about. And Shunsui is the one that initiates and controls the games so again, Shinji will be under Katen Kyokotsus reign and rule.

Stark could have the wolves follow Shunsui, but Shunsui was rushing Stark at the time and considering the distance between them Stark would have also got caught up in the blast which is then also counter productive. And those panels you gave me are good but there is one difference.... In the panels you gave me Shunsui was coming in from a long distance giving Stark time to react, in the last fight Shunsui was already close range therefore not giving enough time for Stark to counter with a gun. See here

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Shunsui was closing the gap too fast for Stark forcing him to use the swords. And I dont know what happened to lillynette to be honest. Because Shunsui didnt hit her or anything, if anything Stark used too many warheads and killed Lilynette himself. Stark killed her himself somehow... Shunsui had nothing to do with it, she mustve just dissapeared.

 

[kotoamatsukami]

No its not common sense lol. We dont know the dynamics of Sakanade, all we know is that Shinji lets the stuff out of his zanpakuto..... we dont know whether it spreads, or is controlled or streamed out slowly so it is too early for you to be making assumptions like that. Because when Shinji let the stuff out it took a while for it to get to Aizen. But you have to stop making things up in your head and then we can continue.
And Shinji using his mask and cero at the same time would make it counter productive because his cero is a strong force and would blow the pollen dust out of the way just like bushogoma k:.

Ukitake has been in 3 fights... One he was taken out in the early stages by wonderweiss, Second was against Yama which was off-panelled, and the third which was against Kaien and his sickness did take over. Shunsui took the cero and wasnt hurt too badly. The word Tank can be used in many instances not just yours. Ukitake is definitely strong but his body isnt at the moment, he might be healed though in the next few chapters because he was in that lotus spring. The lotus is normally associated with rebirth.

And simple Shinji is not strong enough to fight against a quincy in base. I have seen his base abilities and I know he couldnt have fought a quincy in base. None of the captains fought the quincy in base, even Yama used his shikai to kill "Overkill". Zaraki is in a constant shikai state like Ichigo so he is not fighting in base either, Shinji also hasnt shown the base skill level of Shunsui and Shunsui was fighting in Shikai. Ukitake was also shown using his shikai.

You know if you had actually read what I said before, we wouldnt be having this conversation about Shunsui and the old man. I didnt say he did killed him.... I said Yama, Zaraki and Shunsui are the only shinigami that have shown they 'can' kill a quincy.... as in shown they have shown the ability, I didnt say Shunsui 'did' kill a quincy which is completely different. Go back and read.

Yes having knowledge will keep him alive from the very start. But if there is no knowledge getting to know Sakanade really isnt rocket science, because you can see and feel everything around you. And Shinji will also have to figure out Shunsuis shikai as well which has its own set of problems. You will actually need to think and plan your attacks around the rules of Shunsuis shikai, which Shinji would know nothing about. And Shunsui is the one that initiates and controls the games so again, Shinji will be under Katen Kyokotsus reign and rule.

Stark could have the wolves follow Shunsui, but Shunsui was rushing Stark at the time and considering the distance between them Stark would have also got caught up in the blast which is then also counter productive. And those panels you gave me are good but there is one difference.... In the panels you gave me Shunsui was coming in from a long distance giving Stark time to react, in the last fight Shunsui was already close range therefore not giving enough time for Stark to counter with a gun. See here

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Shunsui was closing the gap too fast for Stark forcing him to use the swords. And I dont know what happened to lillynette to be honest. Because Shunsui didnt hit her or anything, if anything Stark used too many warheads and killed Lilynette himself. Stark killed her himself somehow... Shunsui had nothing to do with it, she mustve just dissapeared.

I mean the zanpacto is spinning around his arm why can't he move?..it did not take long to reach aizen at all really few seconds top an plus you can't see the stuff that comes out cuz if you could pretty sure aizen would have noticed it witch he did not witch makes it even more dangerous..how do you kno what will take the smell away? A cero not gone make the smell disappear.

Ukitake not going down from one cero maybe two but not one..define what you mean by tank then?..

Shinji is not strong enough to fight a Quincy in base? You don't know what Quincy he fought an how strong that Quincy was he could have started the fight in base then got that scratch then used shikai you don't kno so don't just say he lost..an kenpachi is basically in base form sence he could not use his shikai power.

Yea I kno but zaraki an Yama actually killed some of the Quincy..kyoraku showed me he had a chance to kill one but failed just like the rest of the captains who did not kill one..

What? If shinji let's out his shikai first or they do it at the same time it don't matter once shunsui is in the inverted world his children games really don't mean much an sometimes he can't even use a certain ability cuz his sword won't allow it at the time..plus if shunsui has no knowledge and is trapped in the inverted world an don't know how it works yet the fight could end in just one slash to the throat by shinji that simple.

No I believe I said the wolves can bite done on kyoraku before blowing up giving stark time to make space..an plus stark is fast an can easily escape an explosion..an stark could have easily kept flash stepping away from kyoraku until he had his guns out. An with all this talking kyoraku doing right here

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had time to get out the guns or gather more wolves.

Idk man I think kyoraku blow threw his chest must have took out lilynette or just took to much strength from stark that he could not form anymore wolves..cuz stark an lilynette are one an now that I reread the manga he said they both put there souls into thoes wolves..idk but kyoraku stab did something cuz he was useing thoes wolves fine before kyoraku showed up..an they disappeared as soon as he got stabbed so yea that stab must have weakend stark.

 

[crackpot]

I mean the zanpacto is spinning around his arm why can't he move?..it did not take long to reach aizen at all really few seconds top an plus you can't see the stuff that comes out cuz if you could pretty sure aizen would have noticed it witch he did not witch makes it even more dangerous..how do you kno what will take the smell away? A cero not gone make the smell disappear.

Ukitake not going down from one cero maybe two but not one..define what you mean by tank then?..

Shinji is not strong enough to fight a Quincy in base? You don't know what Quincy he fought an how strong that Quincy was he could have started the fight in base then got that scratch then used shikai you don't kno so don't just say he lost..an kenpachi is basically in base form sence he could not use his shikai power.

Yea I kno but zaraki an Yama actually killed some of the Quincy..kyoraku showed me he had a chance to kill one but failed just like the rest of the captains who did not kill one..

What? If shinji let's out his shikai first or they do it at the same time it don't matter once shunsui is in the inverted world his children games really don't mean much an sometimes he can't even use a certain ability cuz his sword won't allow it at the time..plus if shunsui has no knowledge and is trapped in the inverted world an don't know how it works yet the fight could end in just one slash to the throat by shinji that simple.

No I believe I said the wolves can bite done on kyoraku before blowing up giving stark time to make space..an plus stark is fast an can easily escape an explosion..an stark could have easily kept flash stepping away from kyoraku until he had his guns out. An with all this talking kyoraku doing right here

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had time to get out the guns or gather more wolves.

Idk man I think kyoraku blow threw his chest must have took out lilynette or just took to much strength from stark that he could not form anymore wolves..cuz stark an lilynette are one an now that I reread the manga he said they both put there souls into thoes wolves..idk but kyoraku stab did something cuz he was useing thoes wolves fine before kyoraku showed up..an they disappeared as soon as he got stabbed so yea that stab must have weakend stark.

Smell is easily affected by and change in wind or pressure. I dont know if you have been reading my previous posts because they all say the same thing which counters youre "Does smell move?", it does. What you smell is essentially molecules part of an air parcel, and if wind or any strong force goes through it it will evaporate. The molecules are volatile making it easy to evaporate. Understand that and then you will know that it is a weakness of Shinjis shikai. And Shunsuis bushogoma is enough for the pollen. We also dont know if that is the biggest Bushogoma Shunsui could make. Lol and you can see the

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making it easier for Shunsui to see, and can aim his bushogoma at that, you can see it in the bottom panel. Case closed.

Ukitakes body is not as strong as you think. Tanking is having a high survivibility rate and being able to continue, Which Shunsui did do, he didnt get healed or anything, he just lurked in the shadows waiting for an oppurtunity.

When Akon stated to Ichigo about the enemy he said that 16 of the quincy were around

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. These were the SR and Shinji would have fought at least one, and definitely not in base. The shinigami even said that they cant defeat these guys without Bankai let alone Shikai. And what you are saying is baseless. I am providing facts with logic and you are not.

Kyoraku did fail but not in the same way as the other captains. The old guy had to use his strongest technique to escape death.

And Kyorakus shikai affects all that is within its range, Shinjis shikai included. And from Shinjis fighting style he actually tells you about his shikais power. He wont go straight for the kill, the same way Shunsui will give hints about Iro Oni. And what is making you think Shinji will go straight for the kill from the beginning, and what makes you think he thinks like that. Shunsui will realise what the effects are from a few cuts from Shinjis shikai which then makes things easier for Shunsui. That is of course the effect lasts long enough for Shinji to give a fatal wound to Shunsui. Really Shunsui also has a lot of things that can stall time as well, once his Zan gets warmed up he can then just lurk around and hide in his shadow, which seems to completely hide his reiatsu as Stark didnt sense him at all. Iro Oni can also stall time because if Shinji does not call the right colour it wont do anything to Shunsui. Shunsui could actually just start the game and not call any colours out and neither will hurt eachother. To be honest Iro oni would be a good stalemate move.

Them biting down on Shunsui wont slow him down, and it doesnt help if Shunsui is slicing at Stark as well. They are within Swords distance of each other and Stark isnt escaping as easily as you think. If someone is putting constant pressure on you it is extremely hard to get out of it, which was exactly what Shunsui was doing and was why Stark was forced to use his swords. Stark wasnt going to do anything rash when someone of Shunsuis calibre who is always on guard. It is a hard task to perform a sneak attack on a guy like Shunsui (The only known ways are impaling his best friend through his stomach and slicing his father figure in half).... Heres a good example

Spoiler

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Shunsui is talking to the old guy having a nice conversation then....

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The Old guy just surprise blitzes. In this panel and the next Shunsui actually dodges, kicks and completely opens up and counters within the space of three moves nearly killing the guy efficiently. That right there is skill.

I dont think so, she just dissapeared when the wolves were created and was once again a full being with Stark and no longer two separate entities.I think Stark still had access to the wolves when he fought Shunsui and that he and Lilynette had actually merged together to create one complete being again. You know when Stark didnt know who was the original, I think in those panels it showed that Stark was actually the original and Lilynette was just a part of him and once the wolves were created Lilynette was no longer (From what I remember they didnt actually converse while in wolf form) it was just Stark with his full power which was why he was alone.

 

[kotoamatsukami]

Smell is easily affected by and change in wind or pressure. I dont know if you have been reading my previous posts because they all say the same thing which counters youre "Does smell move?", it does. What you smell is essentially molecules part of an air parcel, and if wind or any strong force goes through it it will evaporate. The molecules are volatile making it easy to evaporate. Understand that and then you will know that it is a weakness of Shinjis shikai. And Shunsuis bushogoma is enough for the pollen. We also dont know if that is the biggest Bushogoma Shunsui could make. Lol and you can see the

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making it easier for Shunsui to see, and can aim his bushogoma at that, you can see it in the bottom panel. Case closed.

Ukitakes body is not as strong as you think. Tanking is having a high survivibility rate and being able to continue, Which Shunsui did do, he didnt get healed or anything, he just lurked in the shadows waiting for an oppurtunity.

When Akon stated to Ichigo about the enemy he said that 16 of the quincy were around

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. These were the SR and Shinji would have fought at least one, and definitely not in base. The shinigami even said that they cant defeat these guys without Bankai let alone Shikai. And what you are saying is baseless. I am providing facts with logic and you are not.

Kyoraku did fail but not in the same way as the other captains. The old guy had to use his strongest technique to escape death.

And Kyorakus shikai affects all that is within its range, Shinjis shikai included. And from Shinjis fighting style he actually tells you about his shikais power. He wont go straight for the kill, the same way Shunsui will give hints about Iro Oni. And what is making you think Shinji will go straight for the kill from the beginning, and what makes you think he thinks like that. Shunsui will realise what the effects are from a few cuts from Shinjis shikai which then makes things easier for Shunsui. That is of course the effect lasts long enough for Shinji to give a fatal wound to Shunsui. Really Shunsui also has a lot of things that can stall time as well, once his Zan gets warmed up he can then just lurk around and hide in his shadow, which seems to completely hide his reiatsu as Stark didnt sense him at all. Iro Oni can also stall time because if Shinji does not call the right colour it wont do anything to Shunsui. Shunsui could actually just start the game and not call any colours out and neither will hurt eachother. To be honest Iro oni would be a good stalemate move.

Them biting down on Shunsui wont slow him down, and it doesnt help if Shunsui is slicing at Stark as well. They are within Swords distance of each other and Stark isnt escaping as easily as you think. If someone is putting constant pressure on you it is extremely hard to get out of it, which was exactly what Shunsui was doing and was why Stark was forced to use his swords. Stark wasnt going to do anything rash when someone of Shunsuis calibre who is always on guard. It is a hard task to perform a sneak attack on a guy like Shunsui (The only known ways are impaling his best friend through his stomach and slicing his father figure in half).... Heres a good example

Spoiler

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Shunsui is talking to the old guy having a nice conversation then....

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The Old guy just surprise blitzes. In this panel and the next Shunsui actually dodges, kicks and completely opens up and counters within the space of three moves nearly killing the guy efficiently. That right there is skill.

I dont think so, she just dissapeared when the wolves were created and was once again a full being with Stark and no longer two separate entities.I think Stark still had access to the wolves when he fought Shunsui and that he and Lilynette had actually merged together to create one complete being again. You know when Stark didnt know who was the original, I think in those panels it showed that Stark was actually the original and Lilynette was just a part of him and once the wolves were created Lilynette was no longer (From what I remember they didnt actually converse while in wolf form) it was just Stark with his full power which was why he was alone.

Will shunsui have enough wind to push the smell away for good? Smell can always come back.is shunsui bushogoma enough for shinji mist or are you just saying that to mare ur argument stronger?...can you see the mist is it that easy to see an why didn't aizen see it the first or second time?..an as you see here

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the second time he used it you can't see no mist that's why I say can you really see it?..the first time it was shown was just to let the reader know that there was something in the air.

Ukitake body is fine might be a little weak from his sickness but I bet he can take a cero..naw tanking is get hit an keep on fighting, tanking is what kenpachi does he got cut up by noritora an just kep on swinging back, tanking is what ulquiorra did to ichigo getsuga tensho the first time they fought, tanking is what Yamamoto did when wonderweisse unleashed a barrage of punches on him an Yama was like is thy all you got an then just killed him effortlessly...kyoraku got shot an fell out the sky he did not continue fighting no matter how you look at it.

Hmm 16 captian level lets see..kenpachi took out 3 Yamamoto took out 2,jugram fought nobody..so that's 6 captain level Quincy leaving 10 left, unohana an myuri did not fight meaning there were 11 captains doing battle meaning shinji could have not been fighting one of the captain level ones right?..an like I said you don't kno how the fight went down you don't kno when he activated his shikai he could have been about to win until they pulled back.. Just because a couple of captains said they can't win without bankai it do go fro everybody.

HE FAILED..but yea he put up a good fight while he could but he lost....an eye

Shinji explained so the readers will know what's going on same with kyoraku..this is not no fight in the manga we are talking here...I think he goes straight for the kill because this is an imaginary fight where everything goes now if we talking a friendly fight then yea shinji won't go for the kill...an lol stop saying kyoraku will catch on from a few hits the only reason aizen caught on so quick was because shinji explained the hole thing to him..iro oni works with what colors you where what if shinji attack his skin directly?

If the wolves get in kyoraku face trust me it will give stark time to get away an them biting down on kyoraku will slow him down how would that not slow him down?..an if kyoraku saw the wolves forming he would not rush stark knowing he can get him self hurt..an it would be good to use the wolves if kyoraku keeps getting close cuz it would take his attention off stark so he can creat space...thoes wolves could surround kyoraku easily if he is busy rushing stark I guarantee he would take his eyes off stark so he can watch out for the wolves..

If stark still had his full power he would have used the wolves or his guns cuz there was numerous times where kyoraku stop to talk to stark to explain his techs stark could have pulled out his guns or got more wolves..or it was just tite kubo wanting to get the fight over with.

 

[crackpot]

Will shunsui have enough wind to push the smell away for good? Smell can always come back.is shunsui bushogoma enough for shinji mist or are you just saying that to mare ur argument stronger?...can you see the mist is it that easy to see an why didn't aizen see it the first or second time?..an as you see here

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the second time he used it you can't see no mist that's why I say can you really see it?..the first time it was shown was just to let the reader know that there was something in the air.

Ukitake body is fine might be a little weak from his sickness but I bet he can take a cero..naw tanking is get hit an keep on fighting, tanking is what kenpachi does he got cut up by noritora an just kep on swinging back, tanking is what ulquiorra did to ichigo getsuga tensho the first time they fought, tanking is what Yamamoto did when wonderweisse unleashed a barrage of punches on him an Yama was like is thy all you got an then just killed him effortlessly...kyoraku got shot an fell out the sky he did not continue fighting no matter how you look at it.

Hmm 16 captian level lets see..kenpachi took out 3 Yamamoto took out 2,jugram fought nobody..so that's 6 captain level Quincy leaving 10 left, unohana an myuri did not fight meaning there were 11 captains doing battle meaning shinji could have not been fighting one of the captain level ones right?..an like I said you don't kno how the fight went down you don't kno when he activated his shikai he could have been about to win until they pulled back.. Just because a couple of captains said they can't win without bankai it do go fro everybody.

HE FAILED..but yea he put up a good fight while he could but he lost....an eye

Shinji explained so the readers will know what's going on same with kyoraku..this is not no fight in the manga we are talking here...I think he goes straight for the kill because this is an imaginary fight where everything goes now if we talking a friendly fight then yea shinji won't go for the kill...an lol stop saying kyoraku will catch on from a few hits the only reason aizen caught on so quick was because shinji explained the hole thing to him..iro oni works with what colors you where what if shinji attack his skin directly?

If the wolves get in kyoraku face trust me it will give stark time to get away an them biting down on kyoraku will slow him down how would that not slow him down?..an if kyoraku saw the wolves forming he would not rush stark knowing he can get him self hurt..an it would be good to use the wolves if kyoraku keeps getting close cuz it would take his attention off stark so he can creat space...thoes wolves could surround kyoraku easily if he is busy rushing stark I guarantee he would take his eyes off stark so he can watch out for the wolves..

If stark still had his full power he would have used the wolves or his guns cuz there was numerous times where kyoraku stop to talk to stark to explain his techs stark could have pulled out his guns or got more wolves..or it was just tite kubo wanting to get the fight over with.

OMG how many times do I have to say it.... SMELL IS PART OF THE PARCEL OF AIR AND EVAPORATES IF THERE IS ANY CHANGE IN PRESSURE OR WIND SPEED. EVAPORATION MEANS IT DISSAPEARS COMPLETELY AND TURNS INTO GAS WHICH IS USELESS.

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Look at the size of that Bushogoma that mist stands no chance.... It covers a very large area and not to mention and the vortex it would create around it would also disrupt the surrounding air. And you cant say that it is shown to show that something is in the air.

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And in this panel you can see mist at Shinjis mid shin height, so you cant deny that it is not visible, because you dont know that it was what kubo was going for in the first place. You are once again making things up to suit your own needs. That mist has the same form as the mist shown in the panel I gave you in my last post, and you can actually see that Shinji looking at the mist in the panel I gave you

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. And the panels you gave me were from extremely long distances so.....

Shunsui tanked it ok thats that. And Shunsui did continue fighting lol didnt you see him kill Stark in the end?

Ukitakes body wont stand up for a cero let alone one from Stark. I gave you multiple examples and showings of proof yet you still dont budge. Its ok I understand you read the book from head-canon and make things up in youre head without any viable proof.

Lol and you dont know if Shinji was about to win so why even say it. From the look of Shinji he was just as beaten up as the other captains like Ukitake, Hitsugaya, Soi Fon and Co. And from what we have seen Shinjis base level power is under Shunsuis.

Shunsui didnt kill the old guy.... But the old guy failed as well. The only reason he lost was because well..... I dont know..... Maybe his father figure was sliced in two?

What makes you think that Shinji is the type of guy that would go straight for the kill? Because we are still talking in universe and from what we have seen Shinji isnt the type of guy that goes straight for the kill. Personality also comes into a fight and I am just curious to know what you have seen that makes you think Shinji would do something like that?..... Unless we are reading different versions. Its just like Shunsui who analyses his opponent before striking. Because every time you go for the kill head on you always leave yourself wide open. Just like the old guy trying to catch Shunsui off guard..... Tried to kill straight off the bat and nearly got killed in less than 3 moves.
And Sakanade isnt rocket science after a few hits you will realise everything is backwards and will feel everything. And because we have seen that Shunsui has perfect control of both his blades and is perceptive it is not hard to believe he will catch on quickly. Even Kubo said in a character profile that while Shunsui is flamboyant on the outside, he is actually a deep thinker. In Iro Oni you have to call a colour to do damage that is the way it works, to hit his skin you would probably have to have the same skin tone to do maximum damage otherwise you will do minimum damage no matter how hard the strike is.

Shunsuis whole tactic was to leave little space between him and Stark. From what we have seen of the wolves they bite and just hang on, and dont have any physical strength to hold someone down. So Shunsui would still have momentum therefore not allowing any space for Stark and keeping it close, which in turn means that Stark wouldnt be able to detonate the Wolves because he would be caught up in the blast as well... Simple. Stark only used them when Love and Rose were a long way away, but didnt use it against Shunsui because he was too close. Stark tried to create distance after Kage Oni but Shunsui came right after him, and after that it was all CQC. You can still make up those scenarios in youre head though.... But what we saw from Shunsui was tactics and those tactics were what Shunsui was trying to do the whole fight.... Bring it to Close quarters combat, so that Shunsui could rely and use his own fighting skills.

Stark didnt have the space or speed to get away from Shunsui.... We saw him once try to create distance but couldnt. If Stark tried any funny business while they were talking Shunsui would have caught on straight away and would still be close quarters (As I have shown in the panels with the old man), and if Stark tried to get away Shunsui would just go after him again closing it. Shunsui killed Stark in a one vs one fight were both were heavily injured and that is a fact.

 

[kotoamatsukami]

OMG how many times do I have to say it.... SMELL IS PART OF THE PARCEL OF AIR AND EVAPORATES IF THERE IS ANY CHANGE IN PRESSURE OR WIND SPEED. EVAPORATION MEANS IT DISSAPEARS COMPLETELY AND TURNS INTO GAS WHICH IS USELESS.

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Look at the size of that Bushogoma that mist stands no chance.... It covers a very large area and not to mention and the vortex it would create around it would also disrupt the surrounding air. And you cant say that it is shown to show that something is in the air.

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And in this panel you can see mist at Shinjis mid shin height, so you cant deny that it is not visible, because you dont know that it was what kubo was going for in the first place. You are once again making things up to suit your own needs. That mist has the same form as the mist shown in the panel I gave you in my last post, and you can actually see that Shinji looking at the mist in the panel I gave you

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. And the panels you gave me were from extremely long distances so.....

Shunsui tanked it ok thats that. And Shunsui did continue fighting lol didnt you see him kill Stark in the end?

Ukitakes body wont stand up for a cero let alone one from Stark. I gave you multiple examples and showings of proof yet you still dont budge. Its ok I understand you read the book from head-canon and make things up in youre head without any viable proof.

Lol and you dont know if Shinji was about to win so why even say it. From the look of Shinji he was just as beaten up as the other captains like Ukitake, Hitsugaya, Soi Fon and Co. And from what we have seen Shinjis base level power is under Shunsuis.

Shunsui didnt kill the old guy.... But the old guy failed as well. The only reason he lost was because well..... I dont know..... Maybe his father figure was sliced in two?

What makes you think that Shinji is the type of guy that would go straight for the kill? Because we are still talking in universe and from what we have seen Shinji isnt the type of guy that goes straight for the kill. Personality also comes into a fight and I am just curious to know what you have seen that makes you think Shinji would do something like that?..... Unless we are reading different versions. Its just like Shunsui who analyses his opponent before striking. Because every time you go for the kill head on you always leave yourself wide open. Just like the old guy trying to catch Shunsui off guard..... Tried to kill straight off the bat and nearly got killed in less than 3 moves.
And Sakanade isnt rocket science after a few hits you will realise everything is backwards and will feel everything. And because we have seen that Shunsui has perfect control of both his blades and is perceptive it is not hard to believe he will catch on quickly. Even Kubo said in a character profile that while Shunsui is flamboyant on the outside, he is actually a deep thinker. In Iro Oni you have to call a colour to do damage that is the way it works, to hit his skin you would probably have to have the same skin tone to do maximum damage otherwise you will do minimum damage no matter how hard the strike is.

Shunsuis whole tactic was to leave little space between him and Stark. From what we have seen of the wolves they bite and just hang on, and dont have any physical strength to hold someone down. So Shunsui would still have momentum therefore not allowing any space for Stark and keeping it close, which in turn means that Stark wouldnt be able to detonate the Wolves because he would be caught up in the blast as well... Simple. Stark only used them when Love and Rose were a long way away, but didnt use it against Shunsui because he was too close. Stark tried to create distance after Kage Oni but Shunsui came right after him, and after that it was all CQC. You can still make up those scenarios in youre head though.... But what we saw from Shunsui was tactics and those tactics were what Shunsui was trying to do the whole fight.... Bring it to Close quarters combat, so that Shunsui could rely and use his own fighting skills.

Stark didnt have the space or speed to get away from Shunsui.... We saw him once try to create distance but couldnt. If Stark tried any funny business while they were talking Shunsui would have caught on straight away and would still be close quarters (As I have shown in the panels with the old man), and if Stark tried to get away Shunsui would just go after him again closing it. Shunsui killed Stark in a one vs one fight were both were heavily injured and that is a fact.

Um ok but like I said shinji not just gone sit there like stark did he will move..bushogoma may not effect nothing you don't kno how fast that smell travel or how much it spreads out some smell may still be left over after bushogoma is thrown... I see what ur tying to say about the hole air parcel thing but it might just not work that way with shinji shikai ..shinji can disrupt bushogoma by useing a cero anyway....lol is that mist by his shin? Making things up? I showed you the page you saw no mist still aizen/momo was caught in his inverted world hmm why is that?....shinji was not looking at the mist he was sniffing the air he did not say aizen you see this mist sense you sniffed it in ur in my inverted world but instead he said "aizen something smells good huh" aizen never even saw it the first or second time so how is kyoraku gone see it? O lol I forgot kyoraku is god to you...so what if its from long range the most should still be around it should have been shown around aizen for him to sniff it in right?

Naw he ain't tank it he just took the hit an fell an still maintained life an yea I seem him get up 30mins later like I said any captain can come back from that long of a rest.

What proof you give me? Show me a page where ukitake got hit by a cero go ahead ill wait?..an if stark hit him with a cero an he was down as long as kyoraku trust me he would have got back up aswell an continued to fight..he's a senior captain an you expect him to be taking down by one cero lol come on

You said shinji lost with out any proof and no the others looked more beat up then shinji well mabey not soifon idk I forgot how they looked after the attack but I kno shinji only had a little patch on the side of his eye..his base level power is under kyoraku's I wonder how is that is stark physically stronger than grimmjow? Tell me that's not what your going off of..yea his release is better but is he stronger in base who knos.

I think the old guy got the better of kyoraku I don't think he really had a chance at beating the old guy really not without his bankai and his sword don't be participating at times so he was going to lose..now he's fighting someone even stronger cant wait to see how this turns out.

Yea we are talking bleach universe but this fight is never going to happen in just letting you kno shinji can take him out in one hit if kyoraku has no knowledge on shinji shikai..of course he would not do it in the manga it would be to quick, it's like how tosen could have stabbed kenpachi in the eye when he was trapped in tosen dark bankai or he could have slit his throat but no sense this is a manga that's not going to happen...an sakanade is very hard to understand if its not explained to you an you keep sayin after a few hits lol after a few he may be dead...I believe the hole color thing has to do with close only I could be wrong thoe.

Like I said once those wolves bite down kyoraku will be focused on them not stark he's not just going to keep rushing with wolves hanging on to him now that's common sense...an they do posses physical strength they stopped rose from swinging his zanpacto..naw he ain't use them against shunsui be caused he did something with that stab I already gave you plenty of panels of kyoraku just talking to stark giving stark time to do a lot of things..

Stark did have speed or space lol what stark is fast an could have made space by shooting out a cero at stark he don't even need to use his hands it can come straight from his chest quickly if stark still had all his power just resorting to swords is stupid an telling you kubi was just trying to get the fight over with...and what you mean they both was heavily injured hahaha no you did not just Claim kyoraku was heavily injured after saying he ranked that cero then sat on the ground for 30mins how was he injured? Huh? Stark was injured not kyoraku.

 

[crackpot]

Um ok but like I said shinji not just gone sit there like stark did he will move..bushogoma may not effect nothing you don't kno how fast that smell travel or how much it spreads out some smell may still be left over after bushogoma is thrown... I see what ur tying to say about the hole air parcel thing but it might just not work that way with shinji shikai ..shinji can disrupt bushogoma by useing a cero anyway....lol is that mist by his shin? Making things up? I showed you the page you saw no mist still aizen/momo was caught in his inverted world hmm why is that?....shinji was not looking at the mist he was sniffing the air he did not say aizen you see this mist sense you sniffed it in ur in my inverted world but instead he said "aizen something smells good huh" aizen never even saw it the first or second time so how is kyoraku gone see it? O lol I forgot kyoraku is god to you...so what if its from long range the most should still be around it should have been shown around aizen for him to sniff it in right?

Naw he ain't tank it he just took the hit an fell an still maintained life an yea I seem him get up 30mins later like I said any captain can come back from that long of a rest.

What proof you give me? Show me a page where ukitake got hit by a cero go ahead ill wait?..an if stark hit him with a cero an he was down as long as kyoraku trust me he would have got back up aswell an continued to fight..he's a senior captain an you expect him to be taking down by one cero lol come on

You said shinji lost with out any proof and no the others looked more beat up then shinji well mabey not soifon idk I forgot how they looked after the attack but I kno shinji only had a little patch on the side of his eye..his base level power is under kyoraku's I wonder how is that is stark physically stronger than grimmjow? Tell me that's not what your going off of..yea his release is better but is he stronger in base who knos.

I think the old guy got the better of kyoraku I don't think he really had a chance at beating the old guy really not without his bankai and his sword don't be participating at times so he was going to lose..now he's fighting someone even stronger cant wait to see how this turns out.

Yea we are talking bleach universe but this fight is never going to happen in just letting you kno shinji can take him out in one hit if kyoraku has no knowledge on shinji shikai..of course he would not do it in the manga it would be to quick, it's like how tosen could have stabbed kenpachi in the eye when he was trapped in tosen dark bankai or he could have slit his throat but no sense this is a manga that's not going to happen...an sakanade is very hard to understand if its not explained to you an you keep sayin after a few hits lol after a few he may be dead...I believe the hole color thing has to do with close only I could be wrong thoe.

Like I said once those wolves bite down kyoraku will be focused on them not stark he's not just going to keep rushing with wolves hanging on to him now that's common sense...an they do posses physical strength they stopped rose from swinging his zanpacto..naw he ain't use them against shunsui be caused he did something with that stab I already gave you plenty of panels of kyoraku just talking to stark giving stark time to do a lot of things..

Stark did have speed or space lol what stark is fast an could have made space by shooting out a cero at stark he don't even need to use his hands it can come straight from his chest quickly if stark still had all his power just resorting to swords is stupid an telling you kubi was just trying to get the fight over with...and what you mean they both was heavily injured hahaha no you did not just Claim kyoraku was heavily injured after saying he ranked that cero then sat on the ground for 30mins how was he injured? Huh? Stark was injured not kyoraku.

Ummmm remember we dont know if Shinji can move while releasing that mist. Sooo I dont know where you are getting that from unless it is "Common sense" when everything we have seen about it says something else. And we know it would take a while to get to him because Shinji and Aizen were so close together and it still took a while for Aizen to smell it. And because it is a "Mist" (Which is visible to the eye) which was shown in two separate panels which you cant deny was in the panel by his shin.... (Again denying proof to try and make yourself feel secure... You cant keep denying the proof I give you because it looks bad on your part :erm. And who cares if his cero can stop bushogoma it will still spread and evaporate that smell (Counter-productive). I also showed you my panels yet you say "Naww that aint mist thats something else".... it clearly is. Umm Kyoraku will see it because he will be looking for it as he has knowledge... Common sense. And I wont argue against a match up where Shunsui will lose indefinitely.... But against Shinji I think he can win, because the feats from Shinji arent as good as Shunsuis.

Fine up to you about Ukitake.. Even though we know he has bad stamina and health he may be able to take a cero from the Primera... But not well.

And what makes you think he was resting for 30 mins??? Haha again making things up, actually it was really short, because Lisa came to see him which was when the vizards arrived , then went to show how him how strong she had gotten. Love and Rose would have also started and Judging by the manga Love and Rose didnt last long at all. Harribel died... Barragan died, Stark got demoralized... and got hit into the dust by Love, Stark then got serious again and demolished Love and Rose, was about to give the final blow, then Shunsui came from the shadows. 5-10 min tops.

Shinji still had wounds... And this was after all the Shinigami had treatment. Even Shunsuis eye better, all the captains had good treatment yet still had wounds. And Shinjis base power is without a doubt under Shunsuis.... Stark blitzed Bankai Ichigo and Zaraki when he took Orihime so hard that Stark was basically instantaneous (He even had a derp face when Ichigo and Zaraki were coming from both sides... He went from Aizens headquarters to Ichigo and Zaraki and back within seconds. Grimjoww has destruction, while Stark has speed power and skill (For fighting on par with Shunsui who has shown amazing skill himself)

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Of course Shunsui wasnt going to beat them without Bankai.... Because he wouldnt be able to use (Medallion) while the Quincy can use Vollstandig. Shunsui has shown to be the better fighter while in Shikai (Without actually using any techniques just speed and strength). I am also interested to see how the fight pans out, because they have such different personalities.

But it is in-universe so the fight will pan out a lot different from what you think. And Aizen picked up after one cut..... With Shunsui it will take only a few... Because remember you can feel and see everything, Shunsui isnt as dumb as you think even though he acts like it, again he has one of the sharpest minds in SS, and because Shunsui has perfect control of his swings it wont be hard for him to alter his fighting style... Plus Shunsui is so unpredictable you dont know what he is going to do next.... Even he said himself that doing uncharacteristic things is his characteristic... Meaning you will never understand how his mind works.
It is all based on colour from what we know... From what I understand everything goes from skin to clothes. Remember Shunsui killed Stark by slicing through his hollow hole which is really part of his being and made a critical hit therefore killing Stark.

I saw that panel with Rose... It wasnt stopped.... Rose was shocked because it came out of the ground and latched onto Kinshara..... Latched being the main word. Again I say that it hasnt shown physical strength and wouldnt slow down Shunsui and because it is CQC Stark wouldnt explode it when so close as he would get caught up in the explosion.

Shunsui had the pressure and kept on Stark forcing it CQC.... Kubo wasnt trying to end the fight quickly (Can you read the Kubos mind or something? I dont know how you are coming up with this) Shunsui just had the momentum speed and tactics (Creating an opening with his Haori to complete the finishing blow... Again going with his uncharacteristic behaviour). If Stark had the chance he would have taken it.... Stark tried to create distance but Shunsui was already right behind him not allwing Stark to do so. Again trying to catch Shunsui by surprise is no easy feat, and Stark wasnt going to be able to do it to Shunsui .

 

[Your Creepy Stalker]

I wonder how the if your higher up you win this works in reverse world.

 

[kotoamatsukami]

Ummmm remember we dont know if Shinji can move while releasing that mist. Sooo I dont know where you are getting that from unless it is "Common sense" when everything we have seen about it says something else. And we know it would take a while to get to him because Shinji and Aizen were so close together and it still took a while for Aizen to smell it. And because it is a "Mist" (Which is visible to the eye) which was shown in two separate panels which you cant deny was in the panel by his shin.... (Again denying proof to try and make yourself feel secure... You cant keep denying the proof I give you because it looks bad on your part :erm. And who cares if his cero can stop bushogoma it will still spread and evaporate that smell (Counter-productive). I also showed you my panels yet you say "Naww that aint mist thats something else".... it clearly is. Umm Kyoraku will see it because he will be looking for it as he has knowledge... Common sense. And I wont argue against a match up where Shunsui will lose indefinitely.... But against Shinji I think he can win, because the feats from Shinji arent as good as Shunsuis.

Fine up to you about Ukitake.. Even though we know he has bad stamina and health he may be able to take a cero from the Primera... But not well.

And what makes you think he was resting for 30 mins??? Haha again making things up, actually it was really short, because Lisa came to see him which was when the vizards arrived , then went to show how him how strong she had gotten. Love and Rose would have also started and Judging by the manga Love and Rose didnt last long at all. Harribel died... Barragan died, Stark got demoralized... and got hit into the dust by Love, Stark then got serious again and demolished Love and Rose, was about to give the final blow, then Shunsui came from the shadows. 5-10 min tops.

Shinji still had wounds... And this was after all the Shinigami had treatment. Even Shunsuis eye better, all the captains had good treatment yet still had wounds. And Shinjis base power is without a doubt under Shunsuis.... Stark blitzed Bankai Ichigo and Zaraki when he took Orihime so hard that Stark was basically instantaneous (He even had a derp face when Ichigo and Zaraki were coming from both sides... He went from Aizens headquarters to Ichigo and Zaraki and back within seconds. Grimjoww has destruction, while Stark has speed power and skill (For fighting on par with Shunsui who has shown amazing skill himself)

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Of course Shunsui wasnt going to beat them without Bankai.... Because he wouldnt be able to use (Medallion) while the Quincy can use Vollstandig. Shunsui has shown to be the better fighter while in Shikai (Without actually using any techniques just speed and strength). I am also interested to see how the fight pans out, because they have such different personalities.

But it is in-universe so the fight will pan out a lot different from what you think. And Aizen picked up after one cut..... With Shunsui it will take only a few... Because remember you can feel and see everything, Shunsui isnt as dumb as you think even though he acts like it, again he has one of the sharpest minds in SS, and because Shunsui has perfect control of his swings it wont be hard for him to alter his fighting style... Plus Shunsui is so unpredictable you dont know what he is going to do next.... Even he said himself that doing uncharacteristic things is his characteristic... Meaning you will never understand how his mind works.
It is all based on colour from what we know... From what I understand everything goes from skin to clothes. Remember Shunsui killed Stark by slicing through his hollow hole which is really part of his being and made a critical hit therefore killing Stark.

I saw that panel with Rose... It wasnt stopped.... Rose was shocked because it came out of the ground and latched onto Kinshara..... Latched being the main word. Again I say that it hasnt shown physical strength and wouldnt slow down Shunsui and because it is CQC Stark wouldnt explode it when so close as he would get caught up in the explosion.

Shunsui had the pressure and kept on Stark forcing it CQC.... Kubo wasnt trying to end the fight quickly (Can you read the Kubos mind or something? I dont know how you are coming up with this) Shunsui just had the momentum speed and tactics (Creating an opening with his Haori to complete the finishing blow... Again going with his uncharacteristic behaviour). If Stark had the chance he would have taken it.... Stark tried to create distance but Shunsui was already right behind him not allwing Stark to do so. Again trying to catch Shunsui by surprise is no easy feat, and Stark wasnt going to be able to do it to Shunsui .

Lol why can't he move do you relies how dumb you sound huh? there is nothing holding him in place so why can't he move...took awhile for aizen to smell it? Umm no it did not..

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really did not take long all ass you see in the links...like I said please explain to me why aizen did not see it? Explain to me why aizen/momo did not see it the second time around? EXPLAIN, don't look like his opponent can see it if you ask me....you serioulsly think its going to be that easy to stop the smell of shinji shikai lol ok...never said it won't mist I'm just saying it must not be visible to his opponent cuz both times he used shikai his opponent failed to see it they only smelt it an the manga shows that...shunsui feats are better than shinji's how I'm lost?

I'm just saying captains are tough but senior captains are tougher as you can see example: kyoraku an Yamamoto.

No it won't really short after Lisa came he still aint get up yet really i kno it won't 30mins I'm just saying it took him awhile he could have still been hurt a little when Lisa got to him even though he toughed it out he did not tank it.

Ok he had wounds and? he was probly fighting in his hollow form an not shikai like we seen vs grimmjow...but yea having wounds don't mean you lost...is kyoraku base>shinji base who knos..stark don't look like the type that is strong physically he just had speed an good swordsmanship..stark speed really won't mean much if he was in a fight with ichigo unless he could move like ulquiorra in his release form I dont really know what espada was the fastest cuz the guy byakuya fought said he was the fastest an his speed really ain't mean much.

Yea shunsui is a good fighter but he was not going to win that with out bankai..an it's the old guy fault he tried to rush shunsui things would have been different if he did not do that he put him self in danger..

Yea if shinji was not telling aizen about his shikai aizen would have not caught on that quick but with knowledge he did..shunsui will take longer witch could cost him his life I kno he smart but not smart as aizen..well yea it was kinda part of stark I guess but it won't his skin thoe..an him being unpredictable wont matter if caught in shinji shikai cuz it's shinji world he is in.

No it was holding on to his shikai he could not throw it forward..an like unsaid if wolves bite done on kyoraku his attention will be on the wolves not stark no one gets bitten by a wolf an pays it no mind lol of course kyoraku will stop rushing an try to get the wolf off him now that is really common sense.

Was stark trying to crest distance or was he just dodgeing kyoraku attacks there's a difference he's not just gone stand there an get hit like j said befor he could have easily made distance by useing a cero but chose not to use one..if stark was really trying to make distance he would have tried to run from kyoraku witch he did not do...an like I said there were times were kyoraku stopped an talk an in that time stark could have made wolves or got the guns cuz those guns were perfect for kyoraku close range shikai.

 

[crackpot]

Lol why can't he move do you relies how dumb you sound huh? there is nothing holding him in place so why can't he move...took awhile for aizen to smell it? Umm no it did not..

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really did not take long all ass you see in the links...like I said please explain to me why aizen did not see it? Explain to me why aizen/momo did not see it the second time around? EXPLAIN, don't look like his opponent can see it if you ask me....you serioulsly think its going to be that easy to stop the smell of shinji shikai lol ok...never said it won't mist I'm just saying it must not be visible to his opponent cuz both times he used shikai his opponent failed to see it they only smelt it an the manga shows that...shunsui feats are better than shinji's how I'm lost?

I'm just saying captains are tough but senior captains are tougher as you can see example: kyoraku an Yamamoto.

No it won't really short after Lisa came he still aint get up yet really i kno it won't 30mins I'm just saying it took him awhile he could have still been hurt a little when Lisa got to him even though he toughed it out he did not tank it.

Ok he had wounds and? he was probly fighting in his hollow form an not shikai like we seen vs grimmjow...but yea having wounds don't mean you lost...is kyoraku base>shinji base who knos..stark don't look like the type that is strong physically he just had speed an good swordsmanship..stark speed really won't mean much if he was in a fight with ichigo unless he could move like ulquiorra in his release form I dont really know what espada was the fastest cuz the guy byakuya fought said he was the fastest an his speed really ain't mean much.

Yea shunsui is a good fighter but he was not going to win that with out bankai..an it's the old guy fault he tried to rush shunsui things would have been different if he did not do that he put him self in danger..

Yea if shinji was not telling aizen about his shikai aizen would have not caught on that quick but with knowledge he did..shunsui will take longer witch could cost him his life I kno he smart but not smart as aizen..well yea it was kinda part of stark I guess but it won't his skin thoe..an him being unpredictable wont matter if caught in shinji shikai cuz it's shinji world he is in.

No it was holding on to his shikai he could not throw it forward..an like unsaid if wolves bite done on kyoraku his attention will be on the wolves not stark no one gets bitten by a wolf an pays it no mind lol of course kyoraku will stop rushing an try to get the wolf off him now that is really common sense.

Was stark trying to crest distance or was he just dodgeing kyoraku attacks there's a difference he's not just gone stand there an get hit like j said befor he could have easily made distance by useing a cero but chose not to use one..if stark was really trying to make distance he would have tried to run from kyoraku witch he did not do...an like I said there were times were kyoraku stopped an talk an in that time stark could have made wolves or got the guns cuz those guns were perfect for kyoraku close range shikai.

Ok I give up there is absolutely no winning with you.... I can provide all the proof and panels the manga will offer and you still discredit them as nothing. You make all these wild claims which you make up and based off nothing while I make claims and support them with sufficient proof from the manga. So I officially just give up because no matter what proof I give you you will still say "Oh kubo didnt actually mean that" when you have no proof to support your claim.

I could continue rebutting your every argument (Because a lot of what you say is speculation and not really evidence). I didnt even read your last post because there is obviously no point, if your'e not actually taking in what I am saying. I base my claims on canon, and what you then say to that is nothing but speculation like "Oh he must move because it is common sense....." When no such proof has been given or even hinted at, so you cant say things like that as if it would actually happen and is 100% canon.

I think we just have to agree to disagree..... I think Shunsui can take on Shinji while you think the opposite, so I will be the grown up and back down first .

 

[kotoamatsukami]

Ok I give up there is absolutely no winning with you.... I can provide all the proof and panels the manga will offer and you still discredit them as nothing. You make all these wild claims which you make up and based off nothing while I make claims and support them with sufficient proof from the manga. So I officially just give up because no matter what proof I give you you will still say "Oh kubo didnt actually mean that" when you have no proof to support your claim.

I could continue rebutting your every argument (Because a lot of what you say is speculation and not really evidence). I didnt even read your last post because there is obviously no point, if your'e not actually taking in what I am saying. I base my claims on canon, and what you then say to that is nothing but speculation like "Oh he must move because it is common sense....." When no such proof has been given or even hinted at, so you cant say things like that as if it would actually happen and is 100% canon.

I think we just have to agree to disagree..... I think Shunsui can take on Shinji while you think the opposite, so I will be the grown up and back down first .

Same how I feel bout you there's no winning you say the opponent can see the mist when aizen clearly failed to see it...but what ever its over.

 

[The 1 who knows]

The...more experience you have....the more messed up you are against shinji....i give it to shinji