(Debate Tourney) Zexion~ vs Naruto X man / Itachi vs Minato

Kαmi · Sep 21, 2013

Laaaaaaaaaadiees and GEN-TLE-MEN!
Welcome to what is known at the First Round of the NarutoBase Debate Tournament.

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This is match #9, here's the set up.

Location : Gaara vs Kimimaro

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Distance : 50 metres
Restrictions: No KA, no Izanami,
Intel: Characters have full intel
Prep : Off
Weather : Clear

Naruto X man vs Zexion~

Minato Namikaze

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VS

Itachi Uchiha

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Judge

Kuro Kami

Rules:

Characters (already chosen so ignore)
There will be only one character in versus allowed for the first rounds to mix things up a bit we will be implementing varying limitations to stop strong character spam needless to say the juubi is off limits including everyone from the Ootsutsuki clan (first+second generation),rinnegan users and perfect sage mode users everyone else is permitted if they have been in that form in the manga.There will be two presets decided by the judges for character selection choose your own and specific group to choose from like konoha 11.

Way to win
In versus the player loses a round when they can't get out of a the situation their opponent describes for example Itachi uses Amateseru and the opponent uses Water style on himself. Another way to win is if your opponent provides false evidence that will count as being unable to defend themselves. Your posts can be disproven so be careful with what you post!

Disqualifications and Forfeiting
If a player does not stick to the the times agreed with the judges given they will be automatically disqualified barring special circumstances. You may also be disqualified for trolling, excessive abusive language , arguing against clear evidence , spamming , ignoring the post count etc. no one should have any problems following basic common sense.

Post count
5-10

Chakra Limit
Manga Feats

Time Limit
Unlimited during the tournament.

To Begin
Both debators must declare their ready.

Turns
In your draw it should be stated who is going first.

Movement
You cannot sneak attack your opponent nor can you post ridiculous movesets that they haven't shown in the manga. If they cant do it the manga don't bother ( exp . Itachi jumps back in the air using totsuka from 100 metres away) if they have done that movement in the manga its ok.

Prep
On or Off depending on participants it will be naturally Off

Knowledge
Everything

Tools and Weapons
Anything they have used in the manga

Evidence
Scans need to be provided for every point made it is not sufficient to just say Ninja X did something it must be proven without reasonable doubt like they say in court.

Hype
A lot of clear strong evidence must be provided to stand as a rule of thumb we won't accept it.

Summary
Rules will be a hypothetical fight intending to kill there will be three rounds you lose a round if your character dies not being able to defend themselves via the method you described. A vote will happen if there is no winner by the end of the post count with each judge giving one name whoever has the most votes wins that round.

And by extension

A debate would look something like this

Player A- Nagato will beat Madara because he can't stop a chibaku tensei hes also a master of yin release so Madara can't put him under genjutsu

Player B- I disagree show me where Nagato is a yin release master (requests evidence) also Madara could slice Chibaku tensei in half with perfect susanoo( provides evidence) how could Nagato block a blow from perfect susanoo?

Player A- ( provides evidence for yin release)Nagato could just use Asura path to block perfect susanoo etc. etc.

Player B- Asura can't block perfect susanoo( shows evidence) (requests a round win)

Judges award Player B the round

Two main ways you can win

-Proving that a opponent can't block a move you put forward

-Disproving the evidence your opponent has given

Zexion has won the toss but Naruto X man will make the first move. Let’s get it!!!

Keep it clean guys. No character bashing, no member bashing, and please abide by the rules of the site.given

Sennin of Logic · Sep 22, 2013

Alright. I'll start of with this...

Minato throws kunai across the battlefield like this.

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Then Minato creates shadow clones and has himself and all of them teleport rapidly in Itachi's blind spots on and off so that he can't tell which one to put under genjutsu. One wrong move on Itachi's part and this happens.

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Now pretend Kakshi is a Minato clone and Naruto's the real Minato. Also, clones will use body flicker to travel quickly to distant locations for escape routes.

I'll then have Minato engage Itachi in taijutsu, which is a death-sentence for Itachi since Minato can simply let Itachi's attacks through but tag his body and then FTG away.

Your move Zexion.

Edit: The debate begins.....
[video=youtube;8VpYfMxIoR4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8VpYfMxIoR4[/video]

Zexion~ · Sep 22, 2013

Such a small opener....no need for quoting i suppose

I'm assuming this is healthy Itachi as well...

Itachi Uchiha

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Anyway's as for your short lived strategy, i will begin with this as we all know Itachi bears the Sharingan which grants the ability to see chakra,

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and the FTG seal placed on the Kunai are made entirely of chakra, so this means that Itachi already knows the spots Minato will be able to transport to, keep that in mind ...

Second as for your whole overwhelming with clones idea well its rather easily dealt with actually, Great clone explosion

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. As we all know Itachi has possibly the fastest hand-speed in the NV and has been shown on multiple occasions

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Note that in all these occasions what saved Itachi's opponent was Sharingan Pre-Cog, which Minato does not have, so while Minato is spamming all these FTG Kunai and creating fodder clones, it should be a given that Itachi could initiate this jutsu, especially now that he knows what to expect with Minato's attack style, however before he does this he would first hinder Minato's vision with Crows

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Then utilize his extreme hand speed and summon an explosive clone while he retreats back shielding himself from View, also the fact that this is at 50 meters helps exponentially, then when Minato and his clones begin to converge on Itachi as you stated he would explode the clone, ending Minato and his clones, or at the least his clones. If Minato somehow escapes this which is actually rather hard, he would of lossed considerable chakra, as the Kage Bunshin jutsu drains the user rather considerably.

Now if Minato somehow survives let me give a really basic idea of how Itachi would win, As i stated earlier the fact that Itachi has Knowledge,Pre-Cog

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and Chakra sensing is really a boost in his favor, Minato may be able to spam FTG rapidly however its still susceptible to Pre-Cog especially with someone who has such Mastery over the Sharingan and its abilities

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just a mere feat Using wide ranging jutsu such as Pheonix Flower Crimson Nail jutsu

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Directed at different FTG seals, Minato will have no choice but to Transport more than once to avoid them, Eventually Itachi will be able to utilize his Pre-cog and predict where Minato will FTG too next, and with Itachi's great reactions and just plain speed

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He would then be able to finish Minato with either a directed Amertarasu/Totska blitz, or perhaps other things as well, will decide when the debate progresses

Since your opening was rather short and un informative i must digress that i could not post much

Sennin of Logic · Sep 22, 2013

Zexion~ said:
Such a small opener....no need for quoting i suppose

I'm assuming this is healthy Itachi as well...

Itachi Uchiha

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Anyway's as for your short lived strategy, i will begin with this as we all know Itachi bears the Sharingan which grants the ability to see chakra,
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and the FTG seal placed on the Kunai are made entirely of chakra, so this means that Itachi already knows the spots Minato will be able to transport to, keep that in mind ...

Second as for your whole overwhelming with clones idea well its rather easily dealt with actually, Great clone explosion
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. As we all know Itachi has possibly the fastest hand-speed in the NV and has been shown on multiple occasions
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Note that in all these occasions what saved Itachi's opponent was Sharingan Pre-Cog, which Minato does not have, so while Minato is spamming all these FTG Kunai and creating fodder clones, it should be a given that Itachi could initiate this jutsu, especially now that he knows what to expect with Minato's attack style, however before he does this he would first hinder Minato's vision with Crows
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Then utilize his extreme hand speed and summon an explosive clone while he retreats back shielding himself from View, also the fact that this is at 50 meters helps exponentially, then when Minato and his clones begin to converge on Itachi as you stated he would explode the clone, ending Minato and his clones, or at the least his clones. If Minato somehow escapes this which is actually rather hard, he would of lossed considerable chakra, as the Kage Bunshin jutsu drains the user rather considerably.

Now if Minato somehow survives let me give a really basic idea of how Itachi would win, As i stated earlier the fact that Itachi has Knowledge,Pre-Cog
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and Chakra sensing is really a boost in his favor, Minato may be able to spam FTG rapidly however its still susceptible to Pre-Cog especially with someone who has such Mastery over the Sharingan and its abilities
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just a mere feat Using wide ranging jutsu such as Pheonix Flower Crimson Nail jutsu
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Directed at different FTG seals, Minato will have no choice but to Transport more than once to avoid them, Eventually Itachi will be able to utilize his Pre-cog and predict where Minato will FTG too next, and with Itachi's great reactions and just plain speed
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He would then be able to finish Minato with either a directed Amertarasu/Totska blitz, or perhaps other things as well, will decide when the debate progresses

Since your opening was rather short and un informative i must digress that i could not post much

1. Seeing where the marks are won't help Itachi know which Minato's the real one. Also, show me a scan stating the kunai marks are made of almost pure chakra.

2. Minato might not have precog, but he's been shown to have immense reflexes and tracking skills. Here's an example.

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Sasuke has trouble tracking A using sharingan, yet Minato can still react to A's full speed. This shows that his reflexes are on sharingan level. His reaction time probably will equal Kakashi or Sasuke's if not surpass them.

Even if you were to prove that wrong, you forgot a vital fact about Minato...... He's a sensor, and can tell when someone's using shadow clones.

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So Minato would certainly deduce that something's wrong when he senses multiple chakras when he's supposed to be fighting one person. Also, this is a similar feat to Tobirama, meaning he may be on his level.

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Off topic. Isn't it hilarious that they both have the same stance and sense the same amount of enemies?

In any case, Minato will sense the presence of multiple enemies and will immediately suspect a trap. So he'll have FTG at the ready and won't be caught of guard.

Crows won't be a hindrance. All Minato has to do is immediately teleport to a different view to see what's going on.

3. It's impossible to predict a teleporter. Unlike movement, there's no indicator on where you'll teleport.

As for the ninjutsus you listed, that's where the far away marks Minato's clones placed comes into play. Instead of Itachi won't be able to trap Minato since he can simply teleport to a far away mark and then teleport back in far less predictable ways. This is why I set it up. Also, don't forget. Minato doesn't have to dodge ninjutsu. He can simply teleport it away via space-time barrier or FTG. In recent events, we've seen he doesn't need to be in front of an attack to send it away.

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Worse that can happen is that Minato has to throw a kunai in front of him to teleport the attack to a distant kunai. Also, amaterasu doesn't work on Minato.

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All in all, Minato has the single best defense in the manga. Virtually nothing gets the better of them. Itachi has nothing that can beat Minato. The only question is if Minato can get Itachi.

This might be all for tonight. I'll certainly do more tomorrow.

Sennin of Logic · Sep 22, 2013

Madara Rules said:
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Good as in "Flamewar incoming," or "This'll be a good debate!"

Zexion~ · Sep 22, 2013

Misaki Yata said:
Zexion should be using kakuzu, dis ain't right at all.

Whats wrong with Itachi, >.> He's an akatsuki

And my counter will be up soon

Sennin of Logic · Sep 22, 2013

NewKageism said:
go counters both of you

Thanks!

pateuvasiliu said:
Minato better win this.

He will. Zexion's counter was an unexpected one, but by eliminating it, it'll eventually get to the ones I'll have been planning for.

Misaki Yata said:
Zexion should be using kakuzu, dis ain't right at all.

Kakuzu has nothing on Minato. Itachi's the better choice by far.

Zexion~ · Sep 22, 2013

Naruto X man said:
1. Seeing where the marks are won't help Itachi know which Minato's the real one. Also, show me a scan stating the kunai marks are made of almost pure chakra.

There is none, but it doesn't take a genius to realize that all seals have to be held up with something, not to mention Minato is capable of having them move on their own

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meaning he has to manipulate something in order to get them too move, and that something must be chakra, In order for someone to be FTG'd by Minato they have to be in contact with him or his chakra. Soooo this means that the seal must contain his chakra as dictated by the rules of FTG, as he has been shown to FTG things with the seal on the victim

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, therefore with logic one can come to the conclusion that the seals do indeed contain the users chakra,

A DB entry of FTG would help immensely :/

2. Minato might not have precog, but he's been shown to have immense reflexes and tracking skills. Here's an example.

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Sasuke has trouble tracking A using sharingan, yet Minato can still react to A's full speed. This shows that his reflexes are on sharingan level. His reaction time probably will equal Kakashi or Sasuke's if not surpass them.

Its not that Sasuke had trouble following the Raikage with his Sharingan, its just that he could not react even with the Pre-Cog, now i'd go so far as too say Itachi's reactions are greater then that of Sasuke's... Reacting to lightning?

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Now lightning travels at 3,700 miles per second...Which i'd say is quite frankly pretty much loads ahead of Ay's speed which Minato barely reacted too, and i mean barely as Ay's hand was right in front of his face, now think about this for a second both FTG and Susano'o are Jutsu's that require mental input from the user one of which was used to block incoming lightning the other barely reacted to a speeding Ay, Itachi may have better reaction then Minato to be honest... so this helps me in a few reasons however here it basically means that you can't use Sasuke's feats to compare with that of Itachi's, and that Itachi's reactions may even be greater then Minato's

Even if you were to prove that wrong, you forgot a vital fact about Minato...... He's a sensor, and can tell when someone's using shadow clones.

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As you can see from that scan his sensing is not all that accurate as he was unable to determine if it were a bunch of Kage Bunshins, or just multiple enemies (which is different from distinguishing a Kage Bunshin of someone from the Original as they have different chakra amounts and such) so i see no reason as to how he could distinguish from the crows as well as they are summons which do indeed have chakra, as he is able to use the crow clone jutsu

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Which can be used to disturb Minato's Fodder sensing as the numbers would not of Decreased or Increased as he would simply use the clones he had already summoned, meaning Minato won't be able to sense the creation of a crow clone,which can use abilities as well, so great clone explosion strategy still works here,

So Minato would certainly deduce that something's wrong when he senses multiple chakras when he's supposed to be fighting one person. Also, this is a similar feat to Tobirama, meaning he may be on his level.

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look above...

Off topic. Isn't it hilarious that they both have the same stance and sense the same amount of enemies?

Eh, they share a lot of things, Minato is basically a rip off, hence why i hate him

In any case, Minato will sense the presence of multiple enemies and will immediately suspect a trap. So he'll have FTG at the ready and won't be caught of guard.

Again i already proved that he wouldn't

Crows won't be a hindrance. All Minato has to do is immediately teleport to a different view to see what's going on.

No, not in the slightest, the crows would be covering Itachi like this

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or he could even amplify them to be on this level

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As i have not seen anything to suggest he has limitations on his summonings so moving angles won't change the fact that he can't see Itachi, the crows would be surrounding Itachi himself, not Minato

3. It's impossible to predict a teleporter. Unlike movement, there's no indicator on where you'll teleport.

This is true, however Pre-Cog can still come into play here, as i stated earlier Sharingan can sense chakra via eye-sight, so when Minato teleports Itachi would still be able to know exactly where he had FTG'd too as his chakra would become visible, and at 50 meters i doubt he's getting any kunai behind Itachi, and in such an open field there is not any obstacles to block Itachi's line of view, so although this is true anytime Minato try's to Catch itachi off guard with FTG, its simply not happening as his reactions suggest he can react with Numerous jutsu, forcing Minato to FTG back to his Kunai spots, which would for the most part all be in the same vicinity, now to end Minato Itachi could implement a similar stratey such as this

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, since Itachi knows where Minato's seals are at all times, he could easily spam Amertarsu in such a manner as to creating a giant black flame that engulfs all of their locations, all the while making it seem as though he was aiming for Minato (who would be in these spots anyways to too avoiding Amertarsu with FTG) until it creates something like this

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covering most if not all of the Kunai and making sure that Minato is pressured into FTG'ng enough times as so that he ends up porting himself into the flames, thus ending his life...

As for the ninjutsus you listed, that's where the far away marks Minato's clones placed comes into play. Instead of Itachi won't be able to trap Minato since he can simply teleport to a far away mark and then teleport back in far less predictable ways. This is why I set it up. Also, don't forget. Minato doesn't have to dodge ninjutsu. He can simply teleport it away via space-time barrier or FTG. In recent events, we've seen he doesn't need to be in front of an attack to send it away.

Far marks? You merely said he threw all of the kunai in front of him as he did against Bee, which by the way i believe would exhaust him of his Kunai supply, by almost the full amount, so i'm not seeing how he manages to FTG backwards, and even if he does the black flames from my earlier strategy would still be covering the Kunai in front, Itachi can merely move up and do the same to the few kunai he has left as well, S/T Barrier takes a lot of time to initiate , and its not working on Amertarasu, and totska which seals chakra anyways,

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Worse that can happen is that Minato has to throw a kunai in front of him to teleport the attack to a distant kunai. Also, amaterasu doesn't work on Minato.

Not quite getting what your saying, how does throwing a kunai forwards, allow him to teleport backwards

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All in all, Minato has the single best defense in the manga. Virtually nothing gets the better of them. Itachi has nothing that can beat Minato. The only question is if Minato can get Itachi.

This might be all for tonight. I'll certainly do more tomorrow.

I really hope your not trying to suggest he is magically impervious to amertarasu? ...And its not as though it had the speed of a normal amertarasu there, it was traveling at the speed of Naruto's speed, who was pushing the Amertarsu forward along with Sasuke which might of actually hindered the speed actually as two people controlling the same thing means they would of had to reach a balance, Minato would end up FTG'ng back into the black flames due to Itachi's continuous pressure and Minato's unawareness of the flames, his own best defense would be used against him here,

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Sennin of Logic · Sep 22, 2013

Zexion~ said:
There is none, but it doesn't take a genius to realize that all seals have to be held up with something, not to mention Minato is capable of having them move on their own
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meaning he has to manipulate something in order to get them too move, and that something must be chakra, In order for someone to be FTG'd by Minato they have to be in contact with him or his chakra. Soooo this means that the seal must contain his chakra as dictated by the rules of FTG, as he has been shown to FTG things with the seal on the victim
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, therefore with logic one can come to the conclusion that the seals do indeed contain the users chakra,

A DB entry of FTG would help immensely :/

Its not that Sasuke had trouble following the Raikage with his Sharingan, its just that he could not react even with the Pre-Cog, now i'd go so far as too say Itachi's reactions are greater then that of Sasuke's... Reacting to lightning?
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Now lightning travels at 3,700 miles per second...Which i'd say is quite frankly pretty much loads ahead of Ay's speed which Minato barely reacted too, and i mean barely as Ay's hand was right in front of his face, now think about this for a second both FTG and Susano'o are Jutsu's that require mental input from the user one of which was used to block incoming lightning the other barely reacted to a speeding Ay, Itachi may have better reaction then Minato to be honest... so this helps me in a few reasons however here it basically means that you can't use Sasuke's feats to compare with that of Itachi's, and that Itachi's reactions may even be greater then Minato's

As you can see from that scan his sensing is not all that accurate as he was unable to determine if it were a bunch of Kage Bunshins, or just multiple enemies (which is different from distinguishing a Kage Bunshin of someone from the Original as they have different chakra amounts and such) so i see no reason as to how he could distinguish from the crows as well as they are summons which do indeed have chakra, as he is able to use the crow clone jutsu
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Which can be used to disturb Minato's Fodder sensing as the numbers would not of Decreased or Increased as he would simply use the clones he had already summoned, meaning Minato won't be able to sense the creation of a crow clone,which can use abilities as well, so great clone explosion strategy still works here,

look above...

Eh, they share a lot of things, Minato is basically a rip off, hence why i hate him

Again i already proved that he wouldn't

No, not in the slightest, the crows would be covering Itachi like this
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or he could even amplify them to be on this level
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As i have not seen anything to suggest he has limitations on his summonings so moving angles won't change the fact that he can't see Itachi, the crows would be surrounding Itachi himself, not Minato

This is true, however Pre-Cog can still come into play here, as i stated earlier Sharingan can sense chakra via eye-sight, so when Minato teleports Itachi would still be able to know exactly where he had FTG'd too as his chakra would become visible, and at 50 meters i doubt he's getting any kunai behind Itachi, and in such an open field there is not any obstacles to block Itachi's line of view, so although this is true anytime Minato try's to Catch itachi off guard with FTG, its simply not happening as his reactions suggest he can react with Numerous jutsu, forcing Minato to FTG back to his Kunai spots, which would for the most part all be in the same vicinity, now to end Minato Itachi could implement a similar stratey such as this
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, since Itachi knows where Minato's seals are at all times, he could easily spam Amertarsu in such a manner as to creating a giant black flame that engulfs all of their locations, all the while making it seem as though he was aiming for Minato (who would be in these spots anyways to too avoiding Amertarsu with FTG) until it creates something like this
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covering most if not all of the Kunai and making sure that Minato is pressured into FTG'ng enough times as so that he ends up porting himself into the flames, thus ending his life...

Far marks? You merely said he threw all of the kunai in front of him as he did against Bee, which by the way i believe would exhaust him of his Kunai supply, by almost the full amount, so i'm not seeing how he manages to FTG backwards, and even if he does the black flames from my earlier strategy would still be covering the Kunai in front, Itachi can merely move up and do the same to the few kunai he has left as well, S/T Barrier takes a lot of time to initiate , and its not working on Amertarasu, and totska which seals chakra anyways,

Not quite getting what your saying, how does throwing a kunai forwards, allow him to teleport backwards

I really hope your not trying to suggest he is magically impervious to amertarasu? ...And its not as though it had the speed of a normal amertarasu there, it was traveling at the speed of Naruto's speed, who was pushing the Amertarsu forward along with Sasuke which might of actually hindered the speed actually as two people controlling the same thing means they would of had to reach a balance, Minato would end up FTG'ng back into the black flames due to Itachi's continuous pressure and Minato's unawareness of the flames, his own best defense would be used against him here,

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1. The mark doesn't move. It's attached to the victim. But since Itachi'll see the kunai anyway, it's a mood point, so you win that part.

2. I take it you forgot to read the part where Karin says "Even if he can't follow the raikage's movements."

First, who are you to say that A's slower than lightning? There's no measurement for A's speed. Second, you greately underestimate the speed of Naruto characters in general as Kakashi managed to cut a lighting bolt in half with lightning blade.

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Here's why this is significant. Unlike Itachi, who simply had to activate susanoo to guard against lightning, Kakashi had to move his arm to intercept it with precise timing. Meaning that his physical speed is off the charts! A fodderizes Kakashi's speed.

Third, look again.

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Minato didn't "barely react." Minato laid out a trap for A. If you analyze closely, Minato waited for the exact second for A to almost hit him so that he could teleport away, and then teleport on A's back. He literally managed to time when to teleport so that A would be as close to his kunai as possible. This is an incredible timing and reflex feat!

4th, Itachi making clones and using crows is essentially Itachi screaming to Minato "I'M MAKING A TRAP AND THERE'S SEVERAL OF ME!" Yeah, Minato will definately know something's up if Itachi does that and will have FTG at the ready.

5th. The scan you gave is Naruto under genjutsu. >.< Meaning most of the crows weren't real.

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Notice how there's no ground? Your second statement on that was an assumption that Itachi could do the same feat as someone else just because they both use crows. That's invalid.

By the way Minato being a rip-off is a very bad misconception. Minato's abilities were introduced before Tobirama's were even hinted, which means Tobirama's the rip-off!XD Kishi got lazy with the hokages.

This is true, however Pre-Cog can still come into play here, as i stated earlier Sharingan can sense chakra via eye-sight, so when Minato teleports Itachi would still be able to know exactly where he had FTG'd too as his chakra would become visible, and at 50 meters i doubt he's getting any kunai behind Itachi, and in such an open field there is not any obstacles to block Itachi's line of view, so although this is true anytime Minato try's to Catch itachi off guard with FTG, its simply not happening as his reactions suggest he can react with Numerous jutsu, forcing Minato to FTG back to his Kunai spots, which would for the most part all be in the same vicinity, now to end Minato Itachi could implement a similar stratey such as this (X), since Itachi knows where Minato's seals are at all times, he could easily spam Amertarsu in such a manner as to creating a giant black flame that engulfs all of their locations, all the while making it seem as though he was aiming for Minato (who would be in these spots anyways to too avoiding Amertarsu with FTG) until it creates something like this (X) covering most if not all of the Kunai and making sure that Minato is pressured into FTG'ng enough times as so that he ends up porting himself into the flames, thus ending his life...

Don't underestimate Minato's throwing arm. Take this as an example.

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Minato threw a kunai at an isolated island. I'm pretty sure that's >=50 meters from the mainland in the background. Also, no way he swam there.

As for the amaterasu example, look below.

Far marks? You merely said he threw all of the kunai in front of him as he did against Bee, which by the way i believe would exhaust him of his Kunai supply, by almost the full amount, so i'm not seeing how he manages to FTG backwards, and even if he does the black flames from my earlier strategy would still be covering the Kunai in front, Itachi can merely move up and do the same to the few kunai he has left as well, S/T Barrier takes a lot of time to initiate , and its not working on Amertarasu, and totska which seals chakra anyways,

Sorry, it was the night and I thought I mentioned that during all of this, Minato's clones will body flicker to distant areas and mark them, giving Minato long range escape routes and places to dumb jutsu. Anyway. Take a look at these scans.

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Minato was nowhere in sight, so he didn't touch the TBB. This can only mean he can do this remotely with kunai. So if Minato throws a kunai in front of Itachi, he can teleport whatever ninjutsu he uses away to a distant mark. Also, amaterasu spraying won't work. As said previously, he can teleport the flames away to a distant mark. Since the clones will still be there, they can keep making marks.

I really hope your not trying to suggest he is magically impervious to amertarasu? ...And its not as though it had the speed of a normal amertarasu there, it was traveling at the speed of Naruto's speed, who was pushing the Amertarsu forward along with Sasuke which might of actually hindered the speed actually as two people controlling the same thing means they would of had to reach a balance, Minato would end up FTG'ng back into the black flames due to Itachi's continuous pressure and Minato's unawareness of the flames, his own best defense would be used against him here,

Yes, he's impervious to amaterasu.

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Speed doesn't mater since the flames are clearly making contact with Minato. On top of that, this is amaterasu enhanced by the strongest wind style jutsu in existence, yet he teleported away after contact without a single burn mark. Meaning normal amaterasu(which is weaker), isn't going to harm him, and this is if it can hit him at all. By the way, if Itachi sprays amaterasu like that, his chakra will plummet.

Now that I'm done disproving your counters, I'll put Minato on the offensive.

Minato can throw kunai towards Itachi and use FTG LV2 ransengan blitz against him.

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Itachi's shuriken won't help since Minato can teleport to the kunai and throw it again and again until he runs out of them. Itachi's only defense is susanoo. Here's what Minato's giant ransegan does. And here's what cracks ribcage susanoo.

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Minato's giant ransengan may be weaker, but it's within the same destructive range and repeated 2 ransengans at a time should eventually break through.

Of course there's the full susanoo. That's suicide for Itachi. I'm one of the ones that believe that FTG can teleport susanoo away from the user, but some don't. So for the debate's sake, I'll use a different argument that's irrefutable.

Minato sets kunai up all around (I've proven he can throw them long-distance). Then Minato teleports to one of his kunai. Then he has a clone teleport to the blind spot of Itachi's susanoo. Then the clone sneaks up and grabs the susanoo. Then the clone teleports the susanoo and Itachi to the spot Minato is. This puts Minato inside the susanoo. Then Minato ransengans him and marks him while he's shocked at the sudden background change. Then it's quickly followed up with this.

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An alternate method is to throw a kunai to the susanoo's outer shell from the side or rear. Then Minato FTG LV2's in and does the same thing.

Thus dies Itachi.

Zexion~ · Sep 24, 2013

1. The mark doesn't move. It's attached to the victim. But since Itachi'll see the kunai anyway, it's a mood point, so you win that part

Ya, i realized this afterwards XD

2. I take it you forgot to read the part where Karin says "Even if he can't follow the raikage's movements."

Karin is going to magically know what Sasuke is thinking because?... He clearly was able to follow the movements, as he knew when Ay was behind him, hence him reacting with blocking his strike with Enton,

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and if you think that it was pure coincidence that he did this at the time, because of what Karin said yet again, well you can clearly see him looking back at Ay, he was also able to react to Ay yet again with Enton

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Honestly, using what Karin said was rather a weak assumption, especially when you think she would know more then Sasuke himself showed us.

First, who are you to say that A's slower than lightning? There's no measurement for A's speed. Second, you greately underestimate the speed of Naruto characters in general as Kakashi managed to cut a lighting bolt in half with lightning blade.

:| i really don't know what too say here, do you have any proof that this was a true lightning bolt? No you don't its pure hype my man, like sasori somehow took down a nation with 100 puppets

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Regardless its an off-panel feat, nothing specifies that it wasn't merely a simple raiton in the shape of a bolt, as many Raiton are and besides as we all know Raikiri would absorb the lightning

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not cut it in half, this counter was baseless and rather weak again.

Also saying Ay is as fast as lightning now are we? so then is Gaara's sand magically as fast as lightning now as well?

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Lightning>Ay's speed

Itachi reacting to Kirin> Minato reacting to Ay

Here's why this is significant. Unlike Itachi, who simply had to activate susanoo to guard against lightning, Kakashi had to move his arm to intercept it with precise timing. Meaning that his physical speed is off the charts! A fodderizes Kakashi's speed.

No just no my man,

Third, look again.

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Minato didn't "barely react." Minato laid out a trap for A. If you analyze closely, Minato waited for the exact second for A to almost hit him so that he could teleport away, and then teleport on A's back. He literally managed to time when to teleport so that A would be as close to his kunai as possible. This is an incredible timing and reflex feat!

Lol no that didn't happen in the slightest, its obvious he was almost hit, as

1-His face clearly look's surprised
2-He FTG'd to a far away branch, when if he was trying to do what you suggested he would of merely FTG'd behind him then and there, nah it was a mere on the spot reaction, impressive but not on Itachi's level

Also you can clearly see the Kunai is mid-air next to Ay's face, meaning that Minato threw it after he FTG'd to the branch, A.K.A No trap was set, no strategy was formulate= Barely reacting to Ay's speed
4th, Itachi making clones and using crows is essentially Itachi screaming to Minato "I'M MAKING A TRAP AND THERE'S SEVERAL OF ME!" Yeah, Minato will definately know something's up if Itachi does that and will have FTG at the ready.

5th. The scan you gave is Naruto under genjutsu. >.< Meaning most of the crows weren't real.

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Notice how there's no ground? Your second statement on that was an assumption that Itachi could do the same feat as someone else just because they both use crows. That's invalid.

*sigh* Really man really, he's not in a genjutsu until after he summons his crows

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Here have another feat why don't you

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He summons the crows before he puts people in a genjutsu then uses them as a medium to portray himself as he did when talking to Naruto, meaning the crows are summoned with that number U_U But whatever take that second feat then, fact remains he still can summon crows in vast numbers,

By the way Minato being a rip-off is a very bad misconception. Minato's abilities were introduced before Tobirama's were even hinted, which means Tobirama's the rip-off!XD Kishi got lazy with the hokages.

Eh, either way he's annoying

Don't underestimate Minato's throwing arm. Take this as an example.

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Minato threw a kunai at an isolated island. I'm pretty sure that's >=50 meters from the mainland in the background. Also, no way he swam there.

Another off panel feat i see >.> First, you have no way of knowing that he threw that there as shinobi can walk on water, so it wouldn't be too much of a feat for Minato to run a bit into the ocean and then either throw it from a closer distance or even place it,

Second i don't really care how far Minato can throw it as its not getting past itachi Via Shurikan's, which you lamely attempted to counter later on, which i will then counter that when the time comes.

My man you you start using links, i like to see what goes on beforehand, and i can't do that without remembering the chapter when you post the image only, >.>

As for the amaterasu example, look below.

Sorry, it was the night and I thought I mentioned that during all of this, Minato's clones will body flicker to distant areas and mark them, giving Minato long range escape routes and places to dumb jutsu. Anyway. Take a look at these scans.

Lol i mentioned this earlier, i said that amertarasu is not going to stop burning during this fight, so the earlier FTG marks would still be covered in flame, now Itachi would simple move forward when Minato "retreats" and then proceed to do the same strategy again except this time it would require less Flames as Minato would have less Kunai. Also this time Itachi would then proceed to Wreck Minato's clones with his own, which are arguably quicker then base Minato clones and can still use Itachi's precise Shurikan skills,

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Hell

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this may be able to take them out, especially if there still trying to plant FTG seals for the real Minato, not to mention you didn't state what Minato would be doing during this? As if he's standing still he merely gets flamed by Ame. as the whole first are of FTG seals will be filled with the flames, and the clones would be dealing with Itachi's ... however even if it does play off Itachi can always move forward and do it again,

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Minato was nowhere in sight, so he didn't touch the TBB. This can only mean he can do this remotely with kunai. So if Minato throws a kunai in front of Itachi, he can teleport whatever ninjutsu he uses away to a distant mark. Also, amaterasu spraying won't work. As said previously, he can teleport the flames away to a distant mark. Since the clones will still be there, they can keep making marks.

Lol oh man this was rather pointless, where is he going to FTG the flames too? Other ftg spots :| That basically helps itachi as now even more of the seals would be covered in flames, cutting down Minato's options even more so, and you do realize these marks waste chakra right? doubt clones can make that many, and again even if this does happen more FTG points are just being engulfed in black flame then, without Itachi even wasting Chakra, meanwhile he can still administer the strategy i stated earlier,

Yes, he's impervious to amaterasu.

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Speed doesn't mater since the flames are clearly making contact with Minato. On top of that, this is amaterasu enhanced by the strongest wind style jutsu in existence, yet he teleported away after contact without a single burn mark. Meaning normal amaterasu(which is weaker), isn't going to harm him, and this is if it can hit him at all. By the way, if Itachi sprays amaterasu like that, his chakra will plummet.

Omg, this is just ....sad U_U You can clearly see that he FTG'd before contact, the flames are being pushed backwards due to the velocity at which both Naruto and Sasuke are moving, and besides if what you say really did happen wouldn't the FRS have expanded and damaged Minato? But yet it didn't it stayed in its form until it hit Obito, which was the whole purpose of the Strategy, the fact that you think Minato is magically impervious to being struck by the flames is ...ludicrous at least, if not all around insane

Now that I'm done disproving your counters, I'll put Minato on the offensive.

Didn't really disproove much but i'll counter these nonetheless

Minato can throw kunai towards Itachi and use FTG LV2 ransengan blitz against him.

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Itachi's shuriken won't help since Minato can teleport to the kunai and throw it again and again until he runs out of them. Itachi's only defense is susanoo. Here's what Minato's giant ransegan does. And here's what cracks ribcage susanoo.

No itachi's shuriken do help here, if Minato throws the Kunai in itachi's direction he would then deflect it with a shurikan of his own, and if he did what you suggest here, he gets lit up by Amertarasu, as he would be mid-air throwing a kunai directly in Itachi's line of site :| Your pretty much just ended Minato's life here, unless he FTG's back to one of his seals....which are engulfed in Black Flames anyways so he would still die,

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Replace Sasuke with Minato,

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Minato's giant ransengan may be weaker, but it's within the same destructive range and repeated 2 ransengans at a time should eventually break through.

He doesn't need Susano'o, lame counter you made doesn't require me too pull it out yet so this really doesn't matter, although please know that Itachi can still use Amertarasu within Susano'o

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i'm not saying he would do that exactly but, if Minato happened to FTG in front of Itachi which he sort of would have to because i said, no Kunai or seal is getting past itachi with his Chakra vision and Shurikan jutsu, He would again be lit up with the flames,

Of course there's the full susanoo. That's suicide for Itachi. I'm one of the ones that believe that FTG can teleport susanoo away from the user, but some don't. So for the debate's sake, I'll use a different argument that's irrefutable.

No he can't, as i can't find the scan atm, but he FTG'd Sasuke within Susano'o and the Susano'o traveled with him...Sooo

Minato sets kunai up all around (I've proven he can throw them long-distance). Then Minato teleports to one of his kunai. Then he has a clone teleport to the blind spot of Itachi's susanoo. Then the clone sneaks up and grabs the susanoo. Then the clone teleports the susanoo and Itachi to the spot Minato is. This puts Minato inside the susanoo. Then Minato ransengans him and marks him while he's shocked at the sudden background change. Then it's quickly followed up with this.

What is this blind spot you keep speaking of? Do you simply mean behind Itachi? lol as i've stated nothing is getting Behind Itachi NOTHING, Kunai get deflected, Clones get Ko'd via either a Extended Susano'o punch

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although i never said he entered susano'o once again, so if Minato's clones try to get around Itachi without the use of FTG, thanks to Pre-Cog they get KO'd via Itachi's own clones (which also have pre-cog) Or merely Katon's

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An alternate method is to throw a kunai to the susanoo's outer shell from the side or rear. Then Minato FTG LV2's in and does the same thing.

Nope, Even in Susano'o Itachi can throw Shurikan to deflect the Kunai

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notice sasuke's sword leaving the Susano'o meaning again nothing is getting past Itachi in this fight

Well whether you go with my earlier strategy which he didn't really do all that good a job in countering, or merely go with the fact that NarutoXMan basically set Minato up to die, either way Itachi Wins here

[video=youtube;xBXrRfcnP98]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBXrRfcnP98[/video]

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(Debate Tourney) Zexion~ vs Naruto X man / Itachi vs Minato

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