[Discussion] Theories regarding Chakra, incorporating all the information we've recieved thus far.

Rokudaime Hokage Naruto

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Introduction.

As we know in the latest chapter, Madara dropped a bombshell. Madara (Kishi) stated that before Princess Kaguya ate the fruit, all chakra belonged to the Shinju i.e no humans, animals, plants etc had any Chakra at all. This means the Sage was the first Human to be born with Chakra inside of him. This goes against everything we've been told about chakra before - that it is present in all living beings and that when you run out of chakra you die.

These constraints Kishi has put in make it difficult to understand how Chakra works, because it raises questions such as, "how do Chakra reserves in an individual increase if only a finite amount of chakra was injected into the organism at birth?" Also it makes us question "how every single organism on the planet now has chakra within them?" As we've only been told of two instances when chakra has entered the planets ecosystem; when the princess ate the fruit, and when the sage became Jinchuriki of the Juubi. It would have been impossible for the sage to spread chakra to every single species of organism as some people have been speculating.

My theory is by no means solid and could be broken down with the next chapter, however I tried to work with the constraints Kishi left us and come up with something plausible that would account for everything. Think of it as a bucket full of misshapen stones and I'm pouring sand into this bucket; the stones are Kishi's contraints, and the holes which the sand fills become the theory. Anyway lets get on with it.

Part 1 - how every organism received chakra
The Shinju turned into the Juubi because it was angry. Angry that someone had stole its chakra. This Juubi, as described by Madara looks remarkably similar similar to the first form of the Juubi.
Original Juubi
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.
First form
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As common sense dictates, we can deduce that the 2nd form of the Juubi, had more chakra than the first, and that the Shinju (being the final form) has more chakra than the 2nd form of the Juubi. This means, that in order to exact its revenge and produce a mobile entity, the Shinju regressed into the first form of the Juubi. If this is the case it must have lost an enormous amount of chakra. This chakra could have seeped into nature and the ecosystems in the world and provided a rich new recourse for the organisms to use.

After the Sage defeated and sealed the Juubi, he taught people how to use their chakra and became known as the ancestor of all shinobi and the founder of ninjutsu.
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He did not, as people have been speculating give chakra out to the people of the world, but merely taught them to use it, after the Shinju had released chakra into the ecosystem.
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As of now every organism has chakra inside them, and the humans that the Sage has taught to mould chakra are called shinobi. The act of moulding chakra to create Ninjutsu will be passed on for generations forming the modern storyline of Naruto which we know and love today.

Part 2 - how individuals are able to increase their chakra reserves without outside input
This is a difficult one. We've seen the growth of characters like Naruto and Sasuke, and its been shown that their Chakra reserves have grown since introduced - Kakashi is another good example. At the start of Naruto he struggled with keeping a 3 tomoe sharingan active for the duration of a fight, but during the war he used many chakra taxing techniques along with the MS.

We know that as chakra comes from the body(yang) and the spirit(yin), that through training the body and expierence for the mind, a shinobi can increase their chakra levels. If this is the case then it goes against the statement made by Madara in this weeks manga.
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If Shinobi are constantly creating their own chakra, and increasing the depth of their own chakra levels, how can this new chakra have originally belonged to the Shinju?

In my opinion we have to look at this subjectively. We could take it as, that the Shinju was the originator of all chakra in the NV, and that without the Shinju, there would be no chakra. If this is the case, then shinobi used the Shinju's chakra as a tool to create and self-produce their own chakra. A similar situation would be if my friend lent me £100, and I used it to place a bet which returned £1000 to me. The £900 would have been produced by me, and not originally belonged to my friend, but without my friends investment I wouldn't have been able to produce that £900.

Again this is the most difficult part to deal with.

Part 3 - Why do organisms die when they run out of chakra, if people before them survived without chakra.
The fact that organisms die when they lose all their chakra has been mangafact for quite some time and can be seen in this weeks manga, that when people lose all their chakra, they die.
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However, going by the story Madara told to Hashirama, it is evident that people were alive before the Sage and survived without chakra. This can partially be explained by applying some common sense. We can try to assume that humans along with every other organism, got used to having chakra, and evolved so that they are dependant on it. Although given that the Sage is implied to have lived about 1000 years ago, it is questionable, as that level of evolution is unlikely in such a short amount of time, but hey maybe the evolution was sped up by chakra or evolution happens faster in the NV. Who knows, its kishi's story.

TL:DR main points.
1)The Juubi which the Sage fought was the first form of the Juubi
2)This meant it lost chakra when the Shinju transformed into the Juubi
3)Possibility that this chakra leaked into the ecosystem and is the reason all organisms now how have chakra
4)Sage taught humans how to mould this chakra, which is why he was called the ancestor of all shinobi
5)Individuals can make their own chakra, evidenced by Naruto's own chakra reserves growing through the story.
6)This means that not all the chakra available today was part of the Shinju.
7)However without the Shinju having provided the initial chakra, shinobi wouldn't have been able to make more - so this still kind of goes along with the Shinju being the originator of all chakra.
8)Organisms evolved to be dependent on Chakra which is why people die in the current story line when they lose all their chakra, but people could survive long ago without chakra.


Thank you if you took the time to read this, I know its a long read. Feedback is appreciated and I will do my best to respond. Also I'm sorry about the large pictures, I noticed I forgot to re-size them when i came to proof read and I couldn't be bothered to change it.
 

valandil988

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Impressive, good ideas, I have my own questions about organisms being dependent on chakra when before they lived without it. 1000yrs is like yesterday in terms of biology lol or at least in evolutionary terms.
 

Darth Vader

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Impressive, good ideas, I have my own questions about organisms being dependent on chakra when before they lived without it. 1000yrs is like yesterday in terms of biology lol or at least in evolutionary terms.

Adaptation in a sense, correct?
 

Rokudaime Hokage Naruto

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Impressive, good ideas, I have my own questions about organisms being dependent on chakra when before they lived without it. 1000yrs is like yesterday in terms of biology lol or at least in evolutionary terms.
Thanks mate

Yeah thats what i'm thinking, evolution doesn't happen that fast. Hopefully kishi has a suitable answer and he's just keeping us waiting.
 

Made in Heaven

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Nice work! I have nothing to really say, since I've never thought of this idea myself
 

valandil988

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Adaptation in a sense, correct?

Lol an adaption? Its more like an adoption of a completely different biological system for EVERY organism....its like someone changed the NV world and its laws of biology or something lol
 

Mr Hiru

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I'd like to break one of the first bases of your theory, if you don't mind. Of course, this is for the sake of possibilities, since I took a look at each word you put with all respect you deserve, my friend.

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  • This manga page states that Hagoromo was the first 'human' to be born with chakra, and Kaguya was the first 'human' to use it. This statement did not make reference to nature.
  • The chakra was referenced as a holy power, stating that this kind of chakra is exclusive, divine by means.
  • But, this excludes other types of chakra, and there are living things that wield other kinds of chakra, as well as non-living things. For instance, Nature chakra. It is the chakra that belongs to all elements in the nature.
  • Senjutsu let the user gathering of nature chakra, it is not something that humans wield through its own chakra (spiritual + physical energy) but as a third kind of energy that is owned exclusively by things of nature, for example... animals, plants, earth, water, fire, wind, lightning.

My point being... that your introduction stating that living things did not have chakra is not correct, since Madara made reference only for mankind.

I'm open for discussion, and you could break my points if you have some references for supporting your counterarguments.

But if you think I'm right and you based your arguments in that point I referred... I'm sorry. As I said before, it was for the sake of possibilities.
 
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Rokudaime Hokage Naruto

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I'd like to break one of the first bases of your theory, if you don't mind. Of course, this is for the sake of possibilities, since I took a look at each word you put with all respect you deserve, my friend.

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  • This manga page states that Hagoromo was the first 'human' to be born with chakra, and Kaguya was the first 'human' to use it. This statement did not make reference to nature.
  • The chakra was referenced as a holy power, stating that this kind of chakra is exclusive, divine by means.
  • But, this excludes other types of chakra, and there are living things that wield other kinds of chakra, as well as non-living things. For instance, Nature chakra. It is the chakra that belongs to all elements in the nature.
  • Senjutsu let the user gathering of nature chakra, it is not something that humans wield through its own chakra (spiritual + physical energy) but as a third kind of energy that is owned exclusively by things of nature, for example... animals, plants, earth, water, fire, wind, lightning.

My point being... that your introduction stating that living things did not have chakra is not correct, since Madara made reference only for mankind.

Hmm, thats fair enough, I have no proof that states chakra did not exist before hand in Nature.

It's plausible to go either way in my opinion. I guess we will have to wait and see.

However lets assume for arguments sake that Nature Chakra existed before the Shinju's fruit was eaten. There would still need to be a way for humans to receive chakra if not from the way I mentioned.

It isn't clear, but I don't think that the Sage gave chakra to the humans, he merely taught them how to use it(I could be wrong). This means humans must have got chakra from the Shinju in some other way.

As 1000 years isn't enough time for the Sage's descendants to populate the whole earth,
out-competing the non-chakra using humans.
 
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valandil988

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I'd like to break one of the first bases of your theory, if you don't mind. Of course, this is for the sake of possibilities, since I took a look at each word you put with all respect you deserve, my friend.

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Not quite fire lighting etc are nature releases they are
  • This manga page states that Hagoromo was the first 'human' to be born with chakra, and Kaguya was the first 'human' to use it. This statement did not make reference to nature.
  • The chakra was referenced as a holy power, stating that this kind of chakra is exclusive, divine by means.
  • But, this excludes other types of chakra, and there are living things that wield other kinds of chakra, as well as non-living things. For instance, Nature chakra. It is the chakra that belongs to all elements in the nature.
  • Senjutsu let the user gathering of nature chakra, it is not something that humans wield through its own chakra (spiritual + physical energy) but as a third kind of energy that is owned exclusively by things of nature, for example... animals, plants, earth, water, fire, wind, lightning.

My point being... that your introduction stating that living things did not have chakra is not correct, since Madara made reference only for mankind.

I'm open for discussion, and you could break my points if you have some references for supporting your counterarguments.

But if you think I'm right and you based your arguments in that point I referred... I'm sorry. As I said before, it was for the sake of possibilities.

Principle still holds, your nit picking, Humans could survive without chakra before now they can't. Now if I'm not remiss humans are an organism.



^^ this is actually a good idea and it might explain it.
 

Mr Hiru

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Hmm, thats fair enough, I have no proof that states chakra did not exist before hand in Nature.

It's plausible to go either way in my opinion. I guess we will have to wait and see.

Yes, I think that is mostly correct. We lack much information to state something with conviction, so my statements may still be wrong.
 

Rokudaime Hokage Naruto

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Yes, I think that is mostly correct. We lack much information to state something with conviction, so my statements may still be wrong.

Really hope Kishi, doesn't ignore it and give us more information. It is a gaping whole as it is.
 

AllomnisymbolsparttwoT

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Not a bad theory :I the first form of the Juubi was certainly the one rikudo fought,

I think Everybody was born with chakra but rikudo taught men how to manipulate chakra thus forming Ninjutsu but true, the Shinju's essence could have spread throughout humanity because of the event, excellent job bro ^-^
 

grenwood

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ya there is definitely no way that the juubi is the origin of absolutely all the chakra in the universe. it probably was the origin of chackra in humans though just not the chackra they grow themselves when they grow their reserves. it probably isnt even the origin of the chackra in modern day humans, just the original humans who then passed it on to the next genration then the next and so on.
 

Meowazziel

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I think the sage gave chakra to people.
Just as Naruto is handing out chakra to the shinobi alliance.
However the sage his ways must have been more of an actually giving people access to chakra.

What do you think?
 

Mr Hiru

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I think the sage gave chakra to people.
Just as Naruto is handing out chakra to the shinobi alliance.
However the sage his ways must have been more of an actually giving people access to chakra.

What do you think?

...another possibility. Indeed, if he was able to use the Jutsu of Creation, I think this is not far from possibility.
 

Meowazziel

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...another possibility. Indeed, if he was able to use the Jutsu of Creation, I think this is not far from possibility.
However I would like to add this page:

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Doesnt this say more people got their hands on the fruit and ate it?
 

Rokudaime Hokage Naruto

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I think the sage gave chakra to people.
Just as Naruto is handing out chakra to the shinobi alliance.
However the sage his ways must have been more of an actually giving people access to chakra.

What do you think?

I would say its plausible and I have no evidence to say either of us is correct. However my interpretation of Jiraiya's words regarding the sage, are that he taught the people about ninjutsu not gave them the chakra and then taught them how to use it.

Again that is just my interpretation, and it was this interpretation that forced me to look for other ways for Chakra to have entered the ecosystem.

I would say, that unless he used some godly technique in order to transfer chakra to people, it would be very time consuming doing it the way Naruto did, especially if he did it for the entire population of the earth.
 

Rokudaime Hokage Naruto

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However I would like to add this page:

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Doesnt this say more people got their hands on the fruit and ate it?

No I think it is referencing the time between Kaguya ate the fruit and the current storyline. It means that if anything the wars got bloodier, with more powerful people and more powerful weapons.
 

Honord Sage

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Is Kishi setting a second Final battle? The Fruit might appear again will one of the Females eat it? And become the most powerful Female in the Manga? And Naruto take the Juubi power unto Himself to become the Most powerful Male in the Manga? Only Kishi knows. The possibilities?
 

Rokudaime Hokage Naruto

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Is Kishi setting a second Final battle? The Fruit might appear again will one of the Females eat it? And become the most powerful Female in the Manga? And Naruto take the Juubi power unto Himself to become the Most powerful Male in the Manga? Only Kishi knows. The possibilities?

I would say, Sasuke or Orochimaru(in control of sasuke's body) are more likely to eat the fruit and Naruto gets the Juubi, setting up the final fight.
 
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