[Theory] The Sage's Origin and How it Relates to the Five Great Nations

Draxus

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I haven't seen anyone really expand on to the fact that the mother of The Sage of Six Paths, Hagoromo, was a princess and what the implies. So I thought I'd go outside of my norm and actually make a thread....

My Theory's Manga Foundation:
As Madara stated here before Princess Kaguya had eaten the fruit, what we know now as the Shinobi World was wrought with war. After which, she stopped the war all on her own.
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Now here's where her title brings in some interesting implications. As a princess she came from royalty, as such her family ruled a kingdom or nation, and when she ended the war all must have fell under her rule. Which means there was a single great kingdom that ruled at that time.
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I think this page gives several subtle implications:
1) Kaguya had only one son of note.
2) That single child became a hermit/sage, which means he left society to train and hone his abilities
3) Kaguya wasn't around to stop the Juubi as it was left to her son.
4) Chakra isn't something just given by Shinju, there is a secret to unlocking chakra. Hagoromo probably became a hermit so that he could learn how to teach this secret, and created ninjutsu to increase his natural abilities, all to stop the Juubi.

The Theory

I think Hagoromo became a sage because after his mother died the tree became the Juubi and was actually after the chakra she stole still left within her son. Fearing it would endanger the kingdom he left to keep them out of danger, and to learn to use the chakra he had as a more efficient and powerful weapon and eventually defeat it. The Ootsutsuki family were the rulers of the Great Kingdom, when the heir apparent left to be a hermit, it left a void in the power structure which allowed Kaguya's immediate family an opportunity to seize it. If history has taught us anything, some lesser-members of a ruling family are quick to try take power for themselves when opportunities arise.

The Sage began teaching people how to use chakra and ninjutsu in order to defeat the Juubi, and instead of reclaiming his throne he continued increasing and spreading his knowledge and skill. His students, the proto-shinobi, began forming clans probably to better their jutsu as well. Different Ootsutsuki family members began bringing these clans under their fealty. I believe this was the start of a new war as the Ootsutsuki family began in-fighting and claiming territory for themselves. I think Hagoromo felt responsible for this, since he taught the art of ninjutsu and didn't take control of the Great Kingdom, which is the wrong path he was talking about here:

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It's also why he chose his younger son to be his heir as he wanted to unite the kingdom with love instead of more fighting:
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Eventually these waring factions continued fighting until only 5 factions of the Great Ootsutsuki Kingdom remained, becoming the 5 Great Shinobi Countries. The descendants of the Ootsutsuki are actually the daimyo who rule these nations.
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Zee Seh

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nice theory on ur part ... rep ..
 

darkstar94

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The Sage began teaching people how to use chakra and ninjutsu
its stated in the last chapter that kaguya was first person to infuse chakra.....and hagoromo was first person to be born with chakra already in his body.
This means that other fodder people didn't possessed chakra.
so how can sage teach his students to use chakra and ninjutsu....?
 

tyresellers

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What if in the image where it shows the princess doing something to subdue the warring parties she actually gave them chakra to allow her to manipulate them. This would account for all the people now having chakra.
 

Draxus

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its stated in the last chapter that kaguya was first person to infuse chakra.....and hagoromo was first person to be born with chakra already in his body.
This means that other fodder people didn't possessed chakra.
so how can sage teach his students to use chakra and ninjutsu....?

You should have kept reading cuz the very last panel says "he taught people the secrets of chakra and of ninjutsu". So yes he naturally was born with the ability to mold chakra, but all beings have the potential to learn how to do it too, obviously not at his level. This is why I think he became a hermit, to learn how to teach the skill to "fodder people".

What if in the image where it shows the princess doing something to subdue the warring parties she actually gave them chakra to allow her to manipulate them. This would account for all the people now having chakra.

That's an interesting idea, but how would giving people chakra make them stop fighting?
 
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darkstar94

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You should have kept reading cuz the very last panel says "he taught people the secrets of chakra and of ninjutsu". So yes he naturally was born with the ability to mold chakra, but all beings have the potential to learn how to do it too, obviously not at his level. This is why I think he became a hermit, to learn how to teach the skill to "fodder people".
u didn't understand my point,
what i meant was if fodder people didn't have chakra in them then how can they learn to use it......
(for example , to grow a plant or a tree u first need to have some seeds,u can't grow them out of thin air,similarly other people than the sage didnt had the seeds of chakra in them,then how could they learn to infuse chakra)
 

Mr Hiru

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I think the Sage chosen the younger son so the history were not repeated (Kaguya tried to find peace through power, and she failed).
 

Draxus

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u didn't understand my point,
what i meant was if fodder people didn't have chakra in them then how can they learn to use it......
(for example , to grow a plant or a tree u first need to have some seeds,u can't grow them out of thin air,similarly other people than the sage didnt had the seeds of chakra in them,then how could they learn to infuse chakra)

I got your point but you missed mine... Just because they weren't born chakra in them, doesn't mean they couldn't learn to create chakra.

If you remember way back in Part 1 of Naruto we learned charka is literally "the life-force" of all living things in the Narutoverse, so every living thing has a certain amount of chakra. I doubt Kishi is retcon'ing this. I think what was meant is that Kaguya ate the fruit and obtained the chakra of the Shinju and the ability to use it (proto-ninjutsu). Her Son was born with that same chakra and innate ability to use it (basically the 1st Kekkei Genkai). The difference between ninja and normal people is the ability to mix their physical and spiritual energy to create chakra and use it as jutsu. This skill was something Kaguya obtained when she ate the fruit, and her son Hagoromo had at birth.

I believe people who are born with KKG or special abilities can all trace their roots back to Kaguya somehow, but others who are taught to use jutsu as they get older owe that to the Sage's teachings not his bloodline.

I think the Sage chosen the younger son so the history were not repeated (Kaguya tried to find peace through power, and she failed).

Not sure how this differs from theory, if at all. I basically think that's the case as well, but it wasn't really a main point in my theory so I didn't go into it.
 
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darkstar94

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I got your point but you missed mine... Just because they weren't born chakra in them, doesn't mean they couldn't learn to create chakra.

If you remember way back in Part 1 of Naruto we learned charka is literally "the life-force" of all living things in the Narutoverse, so every living thing has a certain amount of chakra. I doubt Kishi is retcon'ing this. I think what was meant is that Kaguya ate the fruit and obtained the chakra of the Shinju and the ability to use it (proto-ninjutsu). Her Son was born with that same chakra and innate ability to use it (basically the 1st Kekkei Genkai). The difference between ninja and normal people is the ability to mix their physical and spiritual energy to create chakra and use it as jutsu. This skill was something Kaguya obtained when she ate the fruit, and her son Hagoromo had at birth.

I believe people who are born with KKG or special abilities can all trace their roots back to Kaguya somehow, but others who are taught to use jutsu as they get older owe that to the Sage's teachings not his bloodline.
Well i know that chakra can be created through physical and spiritual energy.....then can u expalin why madara said that all chakra in battlefield including his and hashirama's belong to god tree and he also gave the explanation to this statement....
this would mean they cant produce chakra but can only reproduce it through their physical and spiritual energy(just like u can reproduce a certain DNA but can't make/produce it)

so only descendants of sage had chakra in them as they were born and they learned it from sage how to use and reproduce chakra......

in last chapter it was shown that shinobi who came in contact with the god tree died because they were sucked dry of chakra.....but madara said that the god tree was trying to get back her own chakra that men stole from her....
she wouldn't have taken the shinobi's own created chakra.....this would mean that shinobi could never create chakra.....
 

Draxus

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Well i know that chakra can be created through physical and spiritual energy.....then can u expalin why madara said that all chakra in battlefield including his and hashirama's belong to god tree and he also gave the explanation to this statement....
this would mean they cant produce chakra but can only reproduce it through their physical and spiritual energy(just like u can reproduce a certain DNA but can't make/produce it)

so only descendants of sage had chakra in them as they were born and they learned it from sage how to use and reproduce chakra......

in last chapter it was shown that shinobi who came in contact with the god tree died because they were sucked dry of chakra.....but madara said that the god tree was trying to get back her own chakra that men stole from her....
she wouldn't have taken the shinobi's own created chakra.....this would mean that shinobi could never create chakra.....

Simple answer is that Madara was speaking figuratively, as Shinju was actually taking chakra so it could bloom. Perhaps since all chakra originated from Shinju, which means all LIFE originated from Shinju. Or maybe even Shinobi wouldn't exist if Kaguya had eaten the fruit, which led the the Sage discovering how to create chakra, which he taught the ancestor of all shinobi. So everyone who has the ability to create chakra owes it to the Shinju. Lastly if the tree is absorbing chakra why would it stop as long as the person has charka? To be fair? Juubi has head a grudge for millenia, I seriously doubt it cares how much it takes from a person once it starts.

Ultimately, no matter what you believe it has little baring on my theory since Madara specifically said So6P "taught" chakra and ninjutsu to the world. Which means he was not around to run the kingdom which lead to more war. You can choose to believe Hagoromo is literally the father of all ninja or he just handed out charka or whatever.
 
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