I absolutely deny the proposition that the Uzumakis were mere descendants of the Senjus, it is clear in the Manga that the Younger Son's descendants were specified to be the Senjus only.
You are engaging in Ad Hominem and I will not indulge upon such things, I bid you good day sir.
It's just the same with the Elder and Younger Sons of Rikudou, the Elder was (First Name) Ootsuki while the Younger was (First Name) Ootsuki but their descendants became the Uchihas and Senjus, even if they weren't called Uchihas and Senjus, the Elder Son was an Uchiha because he was the Uchiha Ancestor while the Younger Son was the Senju Ancestor, same thing with the Uzumaki Clan: Hagoromo Ootsuki and his Tribesmen/Kinsmen were the Progenitor Uzumakis making Rikudou and his kin the First Uzumakis.
But the point is that Rikudou and Kaguya are the progenitors of every shinobi clan. The reason they are able to use chakra is because they married into Rikudou's lineage.
Maybe the sage befriended the uzumaki clansmen and they considered him like family. So maybe he was an honorary member of the uzumaki, and when he was teaching ninjutsu to people he taught them fuinjutsu. And maybe he taught them the reaper death seal who I believe is his mother, since there is a resemblance with her image madara showed and the reaper.
Maybe the sage befriended the uzumaki clansmen and they considered him like family. So maybe he was an honorary member of the uzumaki, and when he was teaching ninjutsu to people he taught them fuinjutsu. And maybe he taught them the reaper death seal who I believe is his mother, since there is a resemblance with her image madara showed and the reaper.
could be, either way sir derps first theory was wrong, now he made a new theory adopting materiel that he said couldnt be true in his first theory, and now hes ignoreing comments that are opposed to his new theory because they make sense. he cant admit he was wrong the first time around. he preached about the terms of his first theory strictly and now that it was wrong he changed the whole basis of how the sage is an uzumaki in an attempt to keep his so called "fame" on nb.
and people still wonder why people on nb made a big deal about how his theory was wrong..sir derp portrays him self as kishis mind reader, and his theory as manga fact and when he was wrong after preaching it for months and accepting absolutely no alternatives to the sages lineage from others. all of a suddden he changes the basis of his theory hoping no one will notice and continues to portray him self as aperson who cant possibly be wrong.
could be, either way sir derps first theory was wrong, now he made a new theory adopting materiel that he said couldnt be true in his first theory, and now hes ignoreing comments that are opposed to his new theory because they make sense. he cant admit he was wrong the first time around. he preached about the terms of his first theory strictly and now that it was wrong he changed the whole basis of how the sage is an uzumaki in an attempt to keep his so called "fame" on nb.
and people still wonder why people on nb made a big deal about how his theory was wrong..sir derp portrays him self as kishis mind reader, and his theory as manga fact and when he was wrong after preaching it for months and accepting absolutely no alternatives to the sages lineage from others. all of a suddden he changes the basis of his theory hoping no one will notice and continues to portray him self as aperson who cant possibly be wrong.
Like I have said before, the Rikudou Sennin was born from a woman and had a father, unlike other's assumption that he was a god who descended into the world without relatives:
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Rikudou Sennin/Hagoromo Ootsuki's mother was a Princess:
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A princess of what during ancient times? a tribe:
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An Era when tribes worship Nature (Animism/Shamanism), which in this case is the God-Tree: The Juubi.
Kaguya and her tribe were probably the shamanic guardians (albeit non-ninjutsu wielders) of the God-Tree:
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That is why she had direct knowledge and access to the tree and its fruit:
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Like I've said, tribes/clans were already in existence even before the Shinobi Era:
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I believe that when Rikudou/Hagoromo Ootsuki started the Shinobi Era, he converted his and his mother's tribe members and kindred into the modern Shinobi-Era Clan.
Which became the Uzumaki Clan:
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It only proves Kushina's statement that the Uzumaki Clan were distant blood relatives, they descended not directly from Rikudou Sennin like the Senju and Uchiha but from Rikudou/Hagoromo's kindred
Some will insist that the Uzumaki Clan descended from the Younger Son only but this isn't true because the Younger Son's descendants were specified to have been the Senjus only:
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And only during a later time that the Elder and Younger Son's descendants were called the Senjus and Uchihas.
It's just the same with the Elder and Younger Sons of Rikudou, the Elder was (First Name) Ootsuki while the Younger was (First Name) Ootsuki but their descendants became the Uchihas and Senjus, even if they weren't called Uchihas and Senjus, the Elder Son was an Uchiha because he was the Uchiha Ancestor while the Younger Son was the Senju Ancestor, same thing with the Uzumaki Clan: Hagoromo Ootsuki's Tribesmen/Kinsmen were the Progenitor Uzumakis making Rikudou and his kin the First Uzumakis.
I firmly believe that Princess Kaguya/Hagoromo's Tribe were the Progenitor Uzumakis aka the first Uzumakis, they may have had the surname Ootsutsuki, but most probably during the dawn of the New Era aka Shinobi Era their Tribe became the Uzumaki Tribe.
Which only makes sense for Rikudou/Hagoromo to reincarnate himself from his own tribe kindred:
I'm going to do my best to give an impartial analysis of this theory, seen as my last posts were met with "aren't you so brave behind a keyboard kishi"
At RED. I completely agree. However here you are repeating manga fact and common sense, to give the illusion of substance for your theory. Think of it as a push-up bra - looks nice but is hiding lack of the good parts.
At BLUE. A sound deduction, it makes sense that guardians of the tree would be the most likely to eat the fruit. However sadly it still doesn't add anything to the main idea you are trying to get across; that the Sage was an Uzumaki.
At BLACK. Here we've got to the main crux of your theory. You simply state you believe that the Sage's clan once it gained knowledge of chakra and entered the shinobi era, re-branded itself as the Uzumaki clan. This is plausible, there is no evidence to support it nor deny it. However this doesn't qualify a genius thread as anyone could develop a plausible theory with no evidence to support or deny it. For instance, right this instant I developed the theory that the Younger son was able to use Senjutsu. Its entirely possible seen as you need large chakra reserves to train in senjutsu i.e Naruto, Jiraiya and Hashirama and the ancestor of the Senju's was noted for his strong Yang chakra. However it's meaningless without some shred of evidence that even hints that this was the case.
At GREEN. Yes that picture only proves that the Uzumaki's were distantly related to the Senju's. However you go on to say it ALSO proves that
they descended not directly from Rikudou Sennin like the Senju and Uchiha but from Rikudou/Hagoromo's kindred
when the scan says nothing of the sort. Please let me know if I missed it, but I can't see anything like that being said or hinted at in that scan.
At BOLD. The Elder son's descendant were specified to being the Senju's however you seemed to have mistaken this for "only the Senju's are descended from the Elder son". Generally there are more than one descendant from each ancestor, and by marriage or clan splits, over the time a number of clans may be descended from the same ancestor. This is the same with evolution. For instance all species on earth are descended from ONE common ancestor which lived 3.8billion years ago.
At UNDERLINE. I agree with how you represent the Elder and Younger son, that is correct. However you make the comparison between them and the Sage is an Uzumaki theory. This is again more filler. You are simply restating your theory and showing that its possible for surnames to change, but still be related to that same clan, which is common sense.
At GREY. Simply restating your theory but this time you added an "I firmly believe".
At Yellow. A nice touch to the theory. However a reincarnation, in my own opinion would be boring and would deduct from Naruto's achievements if he was always destined to succeed.
I also took the trouble of inserting spoiler tags around the scans to make for easy reading.
Derp sometimes has Viz... so if he comes back I'll be glad to ask him. If you aren't going to accept the *********** as the better translations (and I understand your point) then we have to wait...which is fine.
In the meantime...if I am understanding you correctly. You are saying everyone is related to the Sage. Which means you are saying everyone is related to these guys...
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Which again is fine...All though, that seems a little outlandish since they are referred to as the Uchiha and Senju ancestors, but fine I will accept it for now. But then tell me, what happened to the descendants of everyone else? You know, the ones that weren't born with chakra in their body..and therefore should not be able to use ninjutsu?
i have access to viz, but im not gonna post it for multiple reasons. firstly i dont know how to because i dont think their manga has any right click option that would allow you to easily export it. maybe a screenshot might work. another reason is that their is a sopa like bill here in america that is trying to be passed that will make simply viewing copyrighted material against the law which clearly would include *********** and mangapanda transltions and i dont want to post the real material from viz as i would think that that would be worse then simply viewing the *********** and mangapanda translations which i will also stop when and if this gets passed.
also i dont usaully go back to old threads after i first read them and this would likely be old by then with alot more interesting threads in the first two pages of this section by monday which is when the viz translation comes out in shonen jump. once it comes out i think a single issue of shonen jump on is 99 cents digitally, or you can buy a full year for 24 dollars and have it all year. its a very small price to pay to support the author that brings you the manga that you enjoy so much.
you should buy last weeks issue too though, just kuramas joke about naruto surpassing the previous hokages is hilarious and is totally worth 99 cents. the way the official translation says it is way better than both *********** and mangapanda. i liked minato saying maybe these arent tears of joy better than what the official translation said though.
im surprised that narutobase isnt advertising against that sopa like bill on the top of the page like they have the last few times and *********** isnt doing it either. i hope the lack of opposition doesnt allow it to get passed. anyway 99 cents is something pretty much anyone can do if they need the official translation. just go to shonenjump.com to subscribe then you can read it at vizmanga.com
ps: like i said, it comes out on monday so dont just go to the shonenjump site right now and buy the issue that they say is current, that will be last weeks issue.
It seems ,however, that if the princess didn't eat the fruit, no humans would have any charka in the first place. If all shinobi are not descendants, then the only conclusion is that somehow, S06P was able to transfer charka to everyone and also alter their DNAs so that their children can use charka as well.
It seems ,however, that if the princess didn't eat the fruit, no humans would have any charka in the first place. If all shinobi are not descendants, then the only conclusion is that somehow, S06P was able to transfer charka to everyone and also alter their DNAs so that their children can use charka as well.
Actually, it's entirely possible. New, beneficial traits can rapidly spread through a population in a few generations. Given that it's likely been several hundred years since the Sage, there has been plenty of time for chakra to become widespread.
Thank you, the latest revelation only convinced me further that Kaguya and Hagoromo's Tribe/Kinsmen were the progenitor Uzumakis, as I have always stated, Rikudou Sennin did not belong to the Shinobi-Era Uzumaki Clan, but the Progenitor/Pre-Ninjutsu tribe of the Uzumakis.
You will never give up on those theories eh? Well I understand, using so much time to reply with 3 words to 1/2 of the posts in each thread.
OT: Still no bias for this theory. No grounds or proofs. A theory is a theory, but this is only speculation. Kishi now told us, that the Ridukou is from neither of the existing clans. Live with it..
Thank you, the latest revelation only convinced me further that Kaguya and Hagoromo's Tribe/Kinsmen were the progenitor Uzumakis, as I have always stated, Rikudou Sennin did not belong to the Shinobi-Era Uzumaki Clan, but the Progenitor/Pre-Ninjutsu tribe of the Uzumakis.
convinced you further? your first theory was that the uzumaki clan was the clan that the sage started in.. and when i argued the clan wasnt around before the sage and i suggested maybe the clan of the sage converted into the uzumakis u didnt agree. so what do u mean convinced u further.. ur still ignoreing every comment that doesnt agree with you. once again
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what i said:
obito says i now have the power of the ancestor of all shinobi..and those words were in *'s for some reason. kind of intrigued me, considering he calls the sage the ancestor of all shinobi that means he was the ancestor of senju uchia and every other clan considering they are all shinobi clans. just saying..maybe sage isnt an uzumaki considering the uzumaki is indeed a shinobi clan
editing because people think im talking about blood realtives.
the uzumakis are a clan. not any clan. a shinobi clan. shinobi werent around untill the ancestor of all shinobi taught ninjutsu..there fore in my opinion itd make sense that a shinobi clan wasnt formed untill shinobi were around. maybe the uzumaki were a clan that simply converted into a shinobi clan after the fact of learning about ninjutsu. who knows. that said. my theory is the senju uchia uzumaki and all the other clans were formed into shinobi clans after the ancestor of all shinobi, the sage of six paths, was around. and no. just because the sage was the ancestor of all shinobi, it doesnt mean all shinobi stem from this blood line.. but it does mean shinobi clans most likely couldn't be around till after he was. in speculation that would make it impossible for him to be apart of a shinobi clan called the uzumaki.
your response :
It means "Father of All Shinobi" like saying Einstein is the father of modern physics. it doesn't mean all bloodlines trace from him.
btw if france was originally the germanic tribe called "the franks" does that make them a germanic tribe still or are they french people.. my point being lets say hypothetically that first clan ever was called the derp clan. and that in this hypothetical world every clan started from the derp clan. and those clans that started from the derp clan. can be called the sir clan, the bull clan, and the crap clan. just because those clans started from the derp clan, doesnt mean that all the clans are still called the derp clan. they are their own clan with there own traditions own people ect. ect. if that was how it is than the senju and uchia are uzumakis to right? and following that. the uchia senju and uzumakis are actually the same clan as Princess Kaguya/Hagoromo's ...btw since when was Princess Kaguya/Hagoromo's clan a tribe? or even a clan for that matter i dont remember kishi specifying, or is this just u making assumptions and calling it truth again?
