Establishing why: Sasori > Nidaime Mizukage

[deidara senpai]

Alright im going to put up some few brief points here upon why nidaime wins this

1. Water bullet can pierce through hiruko, NOT BREAK IT, just pierce wholes into it also into sasoris body but ill admit that if it doesnt hit the center whole in its heart, it really wont trouble sasori.

2. Sasori might actually get worried about these water bullets in case it does hit the heart, so he will most likely just jump out of it (Joki Boy could destroy it but i dont think he would resort to Joki Boy in the beginning). Even you said it wouldnt be smart to approach in hiruko so lets move on from that.

3. Now he will take out Sandaime kazekage out right after, Now sasori really has no way of fingding out where the real troll is, so how he finds him or the clam is beyond me at least when sandaime is out.

4.What can the Sandaime puppet do to the mizukages mirage jutsu without resorting to Iron Sand? nothing, the multiple arms, gears and gizmos wont do jack. ill move on to Iron Sand now, if anything, the second would just keep putting holes in the puppet

5.Before I get to iron sand actually, how does genjutsu not work on sasori he would still see a mirage im a little confused about that, maybe could you elaborate more on that, I could potentially see what you are saying though.

6.Now id like to say Iron sand is the mizukages only true problem in this fight, depending on how far the iron sand world order can go it might have the range to destroy the clam (ill admit if iron sand can find the clam, it destroys it).

7.I cant see him finding the clam however if the mizukage gets past sandaime, sasori is rightfully screwed. Joki Boys explosion could easily destroy all of the 100 puppets in a single blow.

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In addition its so fast that the puppets wont be able to react they would all get crushed.

8.Sasoris water and fire wont do jack against the mizukage either.

9.Also just note that gaaras sand tanked jokis boy explosion, remember that they were at gaaras best possible geological advantage and that the shield woudnt be as big where they are now plus their was some gold in it to make it een stronger when it first got completely

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and then

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, I wont deny iron is harder then gold that is completely obvious, But its not fast like the sand was or even the gold for that matter, it wont be able to react in time plus the explosion I believe would still get through the iron sand but not enough to kill sasori himself ill admit.

10. Also the core on the middle of the chest does look pretty suspicious, I believe that even the troll would notice it (hence being a kage with experience after all). if he then shoots a water bullet at it thats game over considering how he didnt even have the reaction time to dodge that thing sakura threw at him. which would then end it all.


I didnt give much explanation on everything ill admit, ill post more if I can later tonight. the second does take this high diff though ill admit. But this match all depends on the iron sand everything else wouldnt be trouble at all for the damn troll.

 

[Kaede]

Alright im going to put up some few brief points here upon why nidaime wins this

1. Water bullet can pierce through hiruko, NOT BREAK IT, just pierce wholes into it also into sasoris body but ill admit that if it doesnt hit the center whole in its heart, it really wont trouble sasori.

2. Sasori might actually get worried about these water bullets in case it does hit the heart, so he will most likely just jump out of it (Joki Boy could destroy it but i dont think he would resort to Joki Boy in the beginning). Even you said it wouldnt be smart to approach in hiruko so lets move on from that.

Eh, the bullet isn't really piercing throught Hiruko.

3. Now he will take out Sandaime kazekage out right after, Now sasori really has no way of fingding out where the real troll is, so how he finds him or the clam is beyond me at least when sandaime is out.

4.What can the Sandaime puppet do to the mizukages mirage jutsu without resorting to Iron Sand? nothing, the multiple arms, gears and gizmos wont do jack. ill move on to Iron Sand now, if anything, the second would just keep putting holes in the puppet

The mirage is a Genjutsu and Genjutsu doesn't work on Sasori since he is a Puppet. [

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5.Before I get to iron sand actually, how does genjutsu not work on sasori he would still see a mirage im a little confused about that, maybe could you elaborate more on that, I could potentially see what you are saying though.

Simple. As Jiraiya explained, Genjutsu works by effecting the victim's brain. [

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][

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] Sasori is a puppet who lacks a brain and only has a heart. [

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6.Now id like to say Iron sand is the mizukages only true problem in this fight, depending on how far the iron sand world order can go it might have the range to destroy the clam (ill admit if iron sand can find the clam, it destroys it).

Sasori can just keep on spamming Satetsu attacks. He doesn't get tired since he is a Puppet and the destructive power of the Satetsu will find and crush the damn Clam sooner or later. Let's not forget that Sasori can see this Clam since it is giant and it gains it's ''invisibility'' by using that mirage which is a Genjutsu and Genjutsu doesn't work on Sasori. GG? GG.

7.I cant see him finding the clam however if the mizukage gets past sandaime, sasori is rightfully screwed. Joki Boys explosion could easily destroy all of the 100 puppets in a single blow.

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In addition its so fast that the puppets wont be able to react they would all get crushed.

He isn't getting past the Satetsu. Sasori and the Sandaime Kazekage puppet can simply fly off so the Mizukage won't be able to reach him anymore.

8.Sasoris water and fire wont do jack against the mizukage either.

If the Mizukage uses his Hydrafication technique and Sasori hits him with the flamethrowers, his water (body) will turn into steam so the flamethrowers can do jack against the Mizukage.

9.Also just note that gaaras sand tanked jokis boy explosion, remember that they were at gaaras best possible geological advantage and that the shield woudnt be as big where they are now plus their was some gold in it to make it een stronger when it first got completely

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and then

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, I wont deny iron is harder then gold that is completely obvious, But its not fast like the sand was or even the gold for that matter, it wont be able to react in time plus the explosion I believe would still get through the iron sand but not enough to kill sasori himself ill admit.

Ehm.. Sand and Gold Dust are faster than the Satetsu? Yeah man, not really. [

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][

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] Please do remember that Sasori is the one who decides on how fast the Satetsu will be. [

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] And Joki Boi being able to go throught the Satetsu? Really bro? Gaara's normal sand tanked C3 which is way more powerful than Joki Boi, Satetsu is harder than Gaara's normal sand. Do you really think that Joki Boi has a chance of going throught Satetsu? Because that isn't happening,

10. Also the core on the middle of the chest does look pretty suspicious, I believe that even the troll would notice it (hence being a kage with experience after all). if he then shoots a water bullet at it thats game over considering how he didnt even have the reaction time to dodge that thing sakura threw at him. which would then end it all.

Not really. Chiyo and Sakura didn't figure out anything about his core until he switched his puppet body and Chiyo and Sakura are obviously more intelligent than the Mizukage is. Not to mention that Sasori would be wearing his Akatsuki cloak so he won't even see the core. And Sasori obviously has reaction feats that tell us that he can dodge or tank the bullet. [

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I didnt give much explanation on everything ill admit, ill post more if I can later tonight. the second does take this high diff though ill admit. But this match all depends on the iron sand everything else wouldnt be trouble at all for the damn troll.

Nah, Sasori solo's and you know it.

 

[deidara senpai]

Eh, the bullet isn't really piercing throught Hiruko.

It would.

Would it break apart, no. Would it put a hole in there, mhm it would.


and about the genjutsu on sasori, i have heard it before as well it did sound familiar, good job, agreed on that but joki boy will end this.

He isn't getting past the Satetsu. Sasori and the Sandaime Kazekage puppet can simply fly off so the Mizukage won't be able to reach him anymore.

The clone is very fast sasori really hasent even shown much flying feats anyway and none of them were with speed Joki boy (instead of clone lets just call it Joki boy.......even though thats what it is) can easily catchup to it.

If the Mizukage uses his Hydrafication technique and Sasori hits him with the flamethrowers, his water (body) will turn into steam so the flamethrowers can do jack against the Mizukage.

He honestly could use the water bullet and hit where the flames spit out think of it as a lighter drop a water drop on it and no more fire will come out.

Ehm.. Sand and Gold Dust are faster than the Satetsu? Yeah man, not really. [

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][

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][

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] Please do remember that Sasori is the one who decides on how fast the Satetsu will be. [

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] And Joki Boi being able to go throught the Satetsu? Really bro? Gaara's normal sand tanked C3 which is way more powerful than Joki Boi, Satetsu is harder than Gaara's normal sand. Do you really think that Joki Boi has a chance of going throught Satetsu? Because that isn't happening,

I was talking about defensive speed not offensive, and it is only truly fast when condensed into small like bullets like that and that is not helping sasori from joki boys explosion lol.

And again gaara was at a geographical advantage, their was sand everywhere for him to use at his disposal. plus iron sand has no way shown quick nearly instant feats like gaara was with his sand, iron sand is no way faster then gaaras sand. He has also shown no way that iron sand is quick enough for a quick defense against Joki Boy.

Their really isnt that much iron sand that sandaime can make,and surly doesnt have enough to make what gaara can that time against deidara, the world order that he made was made from the 2 blocks before it and that is not ment for defense.

and just on a side note C3 is bigger but its really not that much bigger though.

Not really. Chiyo and Sakura didn't figure out anything about his core until he switched his puppet body and Chiyo and Sakura are obviously more intelligent than the Mizukage is. Not to mention that Sasori would be wearing his Akatsuki cloak so he won't even see the core. And Sasori obviously has reaction feats that tell us that he can dodge or tank the bullet. [

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Sasori is not dodging that water gun, its compressed into a little thing and shoots off fast sasori doesnt have the speed feats to dodge that.

Those pannels you shown arent quick enough like the water gun especially how on 12 the puppet was destroyed and she didnt even do anything right afterwards, also, do you really think sakura punching an iron cube back to sasori is faster then the water gun? Not going to lie a lot of people could dodge what sasori did.

As for the core, when Joki Boy destroys the third kazekage (By simply approaching followed by a massive explosion) none of sasoris human puppet/100 puppet techs won't do jack. he can just keep firing he will notice something is up and how would he be living (just like anyone would think) that core is honestly quite obvious to almost anyone.

Nah, Sasori solo's and you know it.

mhm cause thats it

 

[deidara senpai]

considering how you will most likely counter, ill post tomorrow if I go on (NFL sunday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! about damn time!!!!!!)

so see ya man.

 

[Kaede]

It would.

Would it break apart, no. Would it put a hole in there, mhm it would.

Ehm, look into Hiruko. This isn't really happening. :/

and about the genjutsu on sasori, i have heard it before as well it did sound familiar, good job, agreed on that but joki boy will end this.

Nah, Sasori can stop the Joki Boi in the same way Gaara did.

The clone is very fast sasori really hasent even shown much flying feats anyway and none of them were with speed Joki boy (instead of clone lets just call it Joki boy.......even though thats what it is) can easily catchup to it.

I don't really see your point here honestly. Sasori can decide on how fast the Satetsu will be and the Joki Boi clone can't fly so t can't reach Sasori who is in the air.

He honestly could use the water bullet and hit where the flames spit out think of it as a lighter drop a water drop on it and no more fire will come out.

Eh, that bullet isn't really big. Sasori can move his hand away and the bullet won't hit. Not to mention that the bullet itself would turn into steam when it hits the flames.

I was talking about defensive speed not offensive, and it is only truly fast when condensed into small like bullets like that and that is not helping sasori from joki boys explosion lol.

Once again, Sasori is the one who decides on how fast the Satetsu will be. He can just make a Satetsu wall (Not that it matters since Joki Boi can't reach a flying Sasori)

And again gaara was at a geographical advantage, their was sand everywhere for him to use at his disposal. plus iron sand has no way shown quick nearly instant feats like gaara was with his sand, iron sand is no way faster then gaaras sand. He has also shown no way that iron sand is quick enough for a quick defense against Joki Boy.

It doesn't matter, Sasori can clearly expand his amount of Satetsu since he has shown the ability to make huge Satetsu shapes out of that little amount of Satetsu that came out of the Kazekage's mouth. Once again, Sasori decides the speed of Satetsu..

Their really isnt that much iron sand that sandaime can make,and surly doesnt have enough to make what gaara can that time against deidara, the world order that he made was made from the 2 blocks before it and that is not ment for defense.

and just on a side note C3 is bigger but its really not that much bigger though.

I think that we both know that Sasori can make his amount of Satetsu expand since he was able to make huge Satetsu shapes [

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] out of the little amount of Satetsu that came ouf of the Kazekage's mouth. [

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And once again, the Joki Boi cannot reach a flying Sasori.

Sasori is not dodging that water gun, its compressed into a little thing and shoots off fast sasori doesnt have the speed feats to dodge that.

Those pannels you shown arent quick enough like the water gun especially how on 12 the puppet was destroyed and she didnt even do anything right afterwards, also, do you really think sakura punching an iron cube back to sasori is faster then the water gun? Not going to lie a lot of people could dodge what sasori did.

Considering that Sasori is a puppet master who would keep his distance and the fact that the bullet has to close the gap between itself and Sasori, yes I do think that Sasori can dodge it. What happens if Sasori envelopes himself in a Satetsu Dome? Now, the bullet won't be able to reach his main body at all anymore.

As for the core, when Joki Boy destroys the third kazekage (By simply approaching followed by a massive explosion) none of sasoris human puppet/100 puppet techs won't do jack. he can just keep firing he will notice something is up and how would he be living (just like anyone would think) that core is honestly quite obvious to almost anyone.

The problem is... The Joki Boi can't reach Sasori nor the Kazekage.

mhm cause thats it

You know you wanna say that Satetsu is gg. u_u

 

[KingHashirama]

Mizukage solos.....

 

[deidara senpai]

Basically the only thing we are arguing about now is Joki Boy Vs. Iron Sand

Ehm, look into Hiruko. This isn't really happening. :/

Then all i can say is that we will just agree to disagree :/ look back at the water guns penetration.


But it really doesnt make a difference so lets just move on.

Nah, Sasori can stop the Joki Boi in the same way Gaara did.

He isnt making an iron sand clone nor turn Joki Boy into iron like that.

I don't really see your point here honestly. Sasori can decide on how fast the Satetsu will be and the Joki Boi clone can't fly so t can't reach Sasori who is in the air.

If its the cube sized one it cant nearly go as fast, the only time the iron sand is actually fast enough to even possibly hit Joki Boy is when its like

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. But that still isnt fast enough and even if it does hit it, what could it possibly do?

Once again, Sasori is the one who decides on how fast the Satetsu will be. He can just make a Satetsu wall (Not that it matters since Joki Boi can't reach a flying Sasori)

So now he will use sandaime while using human puppet form? Seems very out of character but fine lets go with it.

Honestly Sasori can barely fly, he has to use the needle in his chest to go distances like to Chiyo [

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]>[

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]>[

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] hes not going high enough to evade its reach, it could honestly poke sasori if it wanted to.

It doesn't matter, Sasori can clearly expand his amount of Satetsu since he has shown the ability to make huge Satetsu shapes out of that little amount of Satetsu that came out of the Kazekage's mouth. Once again, Sasori decides the speed of Satetsu..

Your overrating the speed of iron sand, He needs a lot of iron sand to block that, the cube/triangular pyramid (i think that was the shape) isnt blocking it.

Plus, he never even used iron sand as a defense so i dont get where iron sand is a good defense when its only been used as an offense.

If Sasori does expand the iron sand, it just gets weaker on the defensive note, it wont be that big of a defensive wall especially since all it has to do is go trough the iron sand just like he did with the regular sand.

I think that we both know that Sasori can make his amount of Satetsu expand since he was able to make huge Satetsu shapes [

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] out of the little amount of Satetsu that came ouf of the Kazekage's mouth. [

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]

Ok but how will this help him? the more it expands the less strong of a defense it is.

And once again, the Joki Boi cannot reach a flying Sasori.

He is barely in the air when he flies plus needs the needle to do so all Joki Boy has to do is chop it with his axe and no more "minor hovering". and then sasori is on the ground always.

Considering that Sasori is a puppet master who would keep his distance and the fact that the bullet has to close the gap between itself and Sasori, yes I do think that Sasori can dodge it. What happens if Sasori envelopes himself in a Satetsu Dome? Now, the bullet won't be able to reach his main body at all anymore.

Joki Boys speed could easily blitz over to sasori as long as hes decently close it can blow up and end him doesnt have to be Water Gun.

however if its pokemon logic then its super effective (see what i did there ).



The problem is... The Joki Boi can't reach Sasori nor the Kazekage.[/QUOTE]

It can already explained how Joki Boy cancels sasoris "flight" and easily approaches them.

You know you wanna say that Satetsu is gg. u_u

Oh id love to trust me, but facing the facts sadly it isnt happening.

 

[Kaede]

Basically the only thing we are arguing about now is Joki Boy Vs. Iron Sand

Yeah.. xD

Then all i can say is that we will just agree to disagree :/ look back at the water guns penetration.

It penetrated a sand clone. Not really impressive. It can't really penetrate Hiruko. Hiruko's Tail deflected metal kunai like it's nothing. [

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] I think we both know that penetrating Hiruko isn't that easy.

But it really doesnt make a difference so lets just move on.

Alright..

He isnt making an iron sand clone nor turn Joki Boy into iron like that.

Gaara stopped Joki Boi with that tactic. What stops someone who has more battle experience with harder and faster sand to do the same? Nothing.

If its the cube sized one it cant nearly go as fast, the only time the iron sand is actually fast enough to even possibly hit Joki Boy is when its like

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. But that still isnt fast enough and even if it does hit it, what could it possibly do?

I think that you don't understand. Sasori is the one who decides on how fast the Satetsu will be. [

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] Not me and not you. He can make it faster or slower if he wishes. And what does he do if the Satetsu caches Joki Boi? Well, like I said in the OP:

To fully counter or avoid Jōki Bōi, Sasori has two options:

1) Since it has been stated in the manga that Sasori can create any shape out of the Satetsu, he can simply make something that would help him to fly off. [

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] Basically he can make the Sandaime Kazekage grow Satetsu Wings [

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] and then he can simply make a Satetsu Block or hell perhaps even a Satetsu Bird that he could fly on. Because of that, the Jōki Bōi now has no way of reaching Sasori.

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2) He can simply keep an amount of Satetsu at his side and everytime the Jōki Bōi explodes, Sasori can make the Satetsu mix with the hail produced from the explosion. [

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] Eventually, Sasori can just envelope the Jōki Bōi clone in the Satetsu that is mixed with the hail and then it won't explode again. [

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] To catch the Jōki Bōi clone with the Satetsu won't be really hard since Satetsu is extremely fast [

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][

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->

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] or he can simply use the same tactic Gaara used. [

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] Let's not forget that Sasori can use his flamethrowers to make the Jōki Bōi explode before the Mizukage plans to set it off. [

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] Someone as intelligent as Sasori will figure out how to stop the Jōki Bōi sooner or later.

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GG NV? GG NV.

So now he will use sandaime while using human puppet form? Seems very out of character but fine lets go with it.

Honestly Sasori can barely fly, he has to use the needle in his chest to go distances like to Chiyo [

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=]=>[

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=]=>[

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] hes not going high enough to evade its reach, it could honestly poke sasori if it wanted to.

Ehm.. That isn't how Sasori flies. As we know, in the manga and in the databook, it has been stated that Sasori can make any shape out of the Satetsu. [

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][

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] Because of this Sasori has three ways of flying:

1) He can make a Satetsu Block on which he can stand on and fly off.
2) He can envelope himself in a Satetsu Dome in the air just like Gaara does with his normal sand.
3) He can make a Satetsu Bird on which he can fly on.

Your overrating the speed of iron sand, He needs a lot of iron sand to block that, the cube/triangular pyramid (i think that was the shape) isnt blocking it.

Plus, he never even used iron sand as a defense so i dont get where iron sand is a good defense when its only been used as an offense.

No, I'm not overrating the speed of Satetsu because I simply can't overrate it since Sasori decides on how fast it will be. Not you nor me. He can make any shape out of the Satetsu, what stops him from making a Satetsu Wall? Nothing. And once again, Joki Boi can't reach a flying Sasori.

It doesn't matter if it never has been used as a defense. Sasori can make any shape out of the Satetsu which is obviously a better defense than Gaara's sand is since it is made out of iron. [

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] He can simply make a Satetsu Dome / Wall.

If Sasori does expand the iron sand, it just gets weaker on the defensive note, it wont be that big of a defensive wall especially since all it has to do is go trough the iron sand just like he did with the regular sand.

Not really. You can see that by looking at the destructive power (weight) of the smaller [

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] and bigger [

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] Satetsu attacks. The bigger Satetsu attacks have more weight and are harder. And Joki Boi isn't going throught Satetsu. Gaara's normal sand tanked C3 which a lot more powerful explosion than Joki Boi is. Satetsu is harder than normal sand. Joki Boi is never gonna go throught the Satetsu.

Ok but how will this help him? the more it expands the less strong of a defense it is.

Nope:

Not really. You can see that by looking at the destructive power (weight) of the smaller [

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] and bigger [

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] Satetsu attacks. The bigger Satetsu attacks have more weight and are harder.

GG? GG indeed.

He is barely in the air when he flies plus needs the needle to do so all Joki Boy has to do is chop it with his axe and no more "minor hovering". and then sasori is on the ground always.

Again that's not how Sasori flies:

Ehm.. That isn't how Sasori flies. As we know, in the manga and in the databook, it has been stated that Sasori can make any shape out of the Satetsu. [

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][

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] Because of this Sasori has three ways of flying:

1) He can make a Satetsu Block on which he can stand on and fly off.
2) He can envelope himself in a Satetsu Dome in the air just like Gaara does with his normal sand.
3) He can make a Satetsu Bird on which he can fly on.

Joki Boi can't reach him. GGs all around.


Joki Boys speed could easily blitz over to sasori as long as hes decently close it can blow up and end him doesnt have to be Water Gun.

Lel. Sasori is flying and Satetsu is near him. This isn't happening.

however if its pokemon logic then its super effective (see what i did there ).

Sorry, but I don't know shit about Pokemon. xD

It can already explained how Joki Boy cancels sasoris "flight" and easily approaches them.

I already explained that isn't how Sasori flies.

Oh id love to trust me, but facing the facts sadly it isnt happening.

Nahhhh, Sasori solo's.

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[deidara senpai]

Counter will be up at sometime but their is not much of a point since all we will do is agree to disagree but ill do it anyway.

 

[Kaede]

Counter will be up at sometime but their is not much of a point since all we will do is agree to disagree but ill do it anyway.

Yeah, most likely. I'm too lazy to counter anyways. ._.