Tobirama (deidara senpai) vs 2nd Mizukage (KidGamer65)

[KidGamer65]

This is a debate between me and deidara senpai

-Tobirama vs 2nd Mizukage.

-Intel: Manga.

-Starting Distance: 30 Meters.

-Location:

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Tobirama gets two fodder Edo Zombies and Trollkage gets 4 Sealing Tags.

deidara senpai will go first.

 

[deidara senpai]

I'm gonna show you all that even I tobirama lacks feats, he's got enough to take down trollkage

Opening will be up by late tonight

 

[pateuvasiliu]

Tobirama should destroy him.

You'd better not lose this.

 

[deidara senpai]

What what what, whats that I hear? Yea thats right its deidara senpai doin his thing

The man the whole base underrates when they are talking about feats mizukage is goin down. Thats right im COMIN IN HOT!!!

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Ight let me say how Tobirama survives the clam genjutsu

Counter For Mirage Genjutsu​

Now when this battle begins the first thing the mizukage will do is summon the giant clam, [

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] now from here, Tobirama can do quite a few things right here, he can use shadow clones since of course he is the creator [

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] and then run around and scatter touching many different areas for his FTG [

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]. As long as he does this, he will have multiple places to teleport too thus making him avoid the water bullet thus it being too slow now that he can teleport anywhere.

Next is Finding The Clam- Tobirama is a sensor [

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] [

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] He can sense out the location of the clam and mizukages true hiding spot and can crush it via water dragon bullet [

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] and of course it will be much stronger since they are in a location with a good water source so their is more water for tobirama to use and make a bigger missile [

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] notice how on this scan again that the water bullet isnt huge but its not small and thats just from water created without a water source
[

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] now look how it is with the water source which is a whole lot bigger and Tobirama is leagues ahead of zabuza and kakashi at suiton which he was also able to use water dragon with 1 hand sign instead of the 44 hand signs and it possesses enough power to crush and destroy the clam.

As for the time right after the clam is destroyed, I would like to say and believe joki boy requires a little bit of prep time since he didnt use it right away when the clam was destroyed. This can give Tobirama a huge chance to kill him before the joki boy is activated,Tobirama can summon edo tensei fodder ninja and can use them to his advantage by touching the edos and will have them marked and can teleport wherever the fodder ninja are, he also uses the edo tenseis to blow up there fake bodies and put severe damage on the second mizukage [

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] He can do that with both edos and thats a big ass explosion, which will undoubtably put damage on Nidaime Mizukage and can potentially kill him. Since Tobirama seems to take advantage of edos as said he will most likely have had 2 edos hes used a lot and has the exploding tags already prepared before the battle [

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], He already prepared them on himself so why not have the edo bombs prepared before this battle. Also, like i said, since Tobirama can teleport to where the edos are, when the edos are attacking the second, Tobirama can appear there as well and start fighting up close with the mizukage, Tobirama is also quite good at close range fighting, he fought hizuren and enma with taijutsu which those 2 are very good at considering hizuren has a 5 in the DB with taijutsu. Point is, Tobirama can go hand to hand with the mizukage quite simply since he really doesnt have a counter to fight back with the sword, Plus the only move that the second mizukage has shown doing close range is the water bullet which he walked up to onoki and used it [

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].Tobirama can easily counter that with FTG to teleport to any of his marked areas,its not a big deal at all.Plus if he touches the second which he most likely will in close range battle, he can mark him and then be able to transport wherever the second is and then can use flying thunder god slash which will put a whole in the second within a second [

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]. Plus, if the second is able to survive this encounter and is able to activate joki boy like i showed before, Tobirama can sense out where the real mizukage is and because of being marked, Tobirama can teleport there and slash him like I showed before.

Ive got more stuff but since this is an opening ill keep it quick for now your turn bro.

BTW 3 judges?

 

[deidara senpai]

P.S if you would like to be a judge contact either me or Kidgamer for our approval

 

[KidGamer65]

What what what, whats that I hear? Yea thats right its deidara senpai doin his thing

The man the whole base underrates when they are talking about feats mizukage is goin down. Thats right im COMIN IN HOT!!!

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Ight let me say how Tobirama survives the clam genjutsu

Counter For Mirage Genjutsu​

Now when this battle begins the first thing the mizukage will do is summon the giant clam, [

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] now from here, Tobirama can do quite a few things right here, he can use shadow clones since of course he is the creator [

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] and then run around and scatter touching many different areas for his FTG [

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]. As long as he does this, he will have multiple places to teleport too thus making him avoid the water bullet thus it being too slow now that he can teleport anywhere.

Ok alright, I agree with everything you posted here, but the next paragraph....lol.

[

B]Next is Finding The Clam-[/B] Tobirama is a sensor [

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] [

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] He can sense out the location of the clam and mizukages true hiding spot and can crush it via water dragon bullet [

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] and of course it will be much stronger since they are in a location with a good water source so their is more water for tobirama to use and make a bigger missile [

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] notice how on this scan again that the water bullet isnt huge but its not small and thats just from water created without a water source
[

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] now look how it is with the water source which is a whole lot bigger and Tobirama is leagues ahead of zabuza and kakashi at suiton which he was also able to use water dragon with 1 hand sign instead of the 44 hand signs and it possesses enough power to crush and destroy the clam.

That is where you phucekd up bro. The Mizukage's location nor the clam's location can be sensed via traditional means, hence this shinobi talking about how

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. The only sensing methods that work are contact based sensing methods, like

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I highly doubt a Suiton is going to destroy the clam, which is clearly extremely hard as Onoki needed his

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. The clam would probably just shrug it off.

As for the time right after the clam is destroyed, I would like to say and believe joki boy requires a little bit of prep time since he didnt use it right away when the clam was destroyed. This can give Tobirama a huge chance to kill him before the joki boy is activated,Tobirama can summon edo tensei fodder ninja and can use them to his advantage by touching the edos and will have them marked and can teleport wherever the fodder ninja are, he also uses the edo tenseis to blow up there fake bodies and put severe damage on the second mizukage

Except the clam can't be destroyed as Tobirama has no way of finding it. Sensing has already been debunked and he has no contact sensing ability like Gaara does.

Also, Joki Boy doesn't require prep time. Right after the clam was destroyed,

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with sand and proceeded to

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, but he retaliated with

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The rest of what you said is dependent on the clam being destroyed, something Tobirama can't manage.

[

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] He can do that with both edos and thats a big ass explosion, which will undoubtably put damage on Nidaime Mizukage and can potentially kill him. Since Tobirama seems to take advantage of edos as said he will most likely have had 2 edos hes used a lot and has the exploding tags already prepared before the battle [

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], He already prepared them on himself so why not have the edo bombs prepared before this battle. Also, like i said, since Tobirama can teleport to where the edos are, when the edos are attacking the second, Tobirama can appear there as well and start fighting up close with the mizukage, Tobirama is also quite good at close range fighting, he fought hizuren and enma with taijutsu which those 2 are very good at considering hizuren has a 5 in the DB with taijutsu. Point is, Tobirama can go hand to hand with the mizukage quite simply since he really doesnt have a counter to fight back with the sword, Plus the only move that the second mizukage has shown doing close range is the water bullet which he walked up to onoki and used it [

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].Tobirama can easily counter that with FTG to teleport to any of his marked areas,its not a big deal at all.Plus if he touches the second which he most likely will in close range battle, he can mark him and then be able to transport wherever the second is and then can use flying thunder god slash which will put a whole in the second within a second [

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]. Plus, if the second is able to survive this encounter and is able to activate joki boy like i showed before, Tobirama can sense out where the real mizukage is and because of being marked, Tobirama can teleport there and slash him like I showed before.

Same as above, this is dependent on him destroying the clam, something he can't manage., but your finishing methods are iffy. He has access to the Hozuki clans Liqufication jutsu, which lets him turn parts of his body into water as seen

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. I don't see a slash taking him out. I agree that the Gojo Kibakufuda will end him though, too bad it'll never hit.


As shown above, Tobirama has pretty much no chance at finding the clam, at all since he can't contact sense, he has no moves that cover an extremely large AoE, nor can he see through the Genjutsu. When used with Joki Boy, a technique that will

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until its destroyed or stopped and a technique that is

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, Tobirama is pretty much screwed. He can't see Joki Boy coming due to the mirage, which makes them see

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while hiding the

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. Which will lead to Joki Boy blowing him to bits and him not being able to escape or defend since he doesn't know its coming at him. With Tobirama dead, the Mizukage can easily get behind the edos (Due to the mirage) and seal them away with the sealing tags provided in the OP.

If the Mizukage opts not to use Joki Boy due to how it weakens his body, then he can just make use of the

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technique to shoot Tobirama through the heart while using the Mirage as cover to get close to him, allowing him to seal away the Edos later on without fail.

Tobirama can't win this.

 

[Penguin]

I want to judge.

*looks at avatar and sig*

Maybe not. Tobirama can win this, but meh.

 

[deidara senpai]

so what about the judges proposal in case neither of us can convince each other?

Ok alright, I agree with everything you posted here, but the next paragraph....lol.

Good we agree on this lets move on and we shall see lol

That is where you phucekd up bro. The Mizukage's location nor the clam's location can be sensed via traditional means, hence this shinobi talking about how

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. The only sensing methods that work are contact based sensing methods, like

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This doesnt actually mean he can't sense him though, is there a scan where they say that they actually cant sense him cause of the mirage?

Either way, for the clam jutsu, the trollkage has nothing on Tobirama while the clam jutsu is out, aside from water bullets which can easily be avoided via FTG, so all Tobirama has to do is find him and not worry so much on the illusion, Another potential way Tobirama can sense him out aside from regular sensing is from regular water, If Tobirama keeps doing water dragon bullets around the area (this is assuming the second mizukage retreated too land since it would be foolish for the real ones to be hiding out on top of the water cause it would even prove this point better) If then the landscape is covered with water, their is a chance that since the water jutsus had chakra in it, similar to gaaras sand, can sense him out if the clam and mizukage are touching the water beneath them, basically sensing him out by the water

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In additon, Tobirama can use edo tensei t find it cause their can be a sensor that senses like gaara did, and even if not,They are simply a distraction for the mizukage while Tobirama find the real one (using the way i said with the water ) Now if the edos can potentially be sealed, Tobirama is a regular sensor and can sense this no matter what and can have the reflexes to teleport where the edo is and then teleport away with him again

I highly doubt a Suiton is going to destroy the clam, which is clearly extremely hard as Onoki needed his

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. The clam would probably just shrug it off.

Agree to disagree, water bullet is an advanced move if it isnt strong, then it wouldnt be worth anyones time learning since its 44 hand signs, plus cause of

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, do you know how much bigger the missile will be and how much stronger?

Here is The giant Clam

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Here is the water dragon bullet

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Ill admit if it were kakashi or zabuzas case, ill say they would have cracked it, however with Tobirama and a big water supply, it will be big enough to destroy it for as i have shown how incredible he is at suiton, it will undoubtably shatter it.

Except the clam can't be destroyed as Tobirama has no way of finding it. Sensing has already been debunked and he has no contact sensing ability like Gaara does.

Already explained this with the water.

Also, Joki Boy doesn't require prep time. Right after the clam was destroyed,

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with sand and proceeded to

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, but he retaliated with

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It could have been after the clam was destroyed, he started the jutsu then and then had to keep the alliance at bay until Joki Boy has taken affect. Its a possibility but either way it doesnt make a difference.


Thus another way of finding out where the mizukage is from the

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, look at the people on top of Gamakichi, and how small they are and how massive the explosion is, if he sets off 2 of them at this location, it can blow up the clam and the mizukage.

Same as above, this is dependent on him destroying the clam, something he can't manage., but your finishing methods are iffy. He has access to the Hozuki clans Liqufication jutsu, which lets him turn parts of his body into water as seen

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. I don't see a slash taking him out. I agree that the Gojo Kibakufuda will end him though, too bad it'll never hit.

I can agree that a slash wont kill him your right, however, point is he will still have the mizukage marked and weather or not a slash works (ill agree it wont ), he will still have the troll marked and can teleport to him at any time.

And explained how he would find him and how Gojo Kibakufuda will finish this trollkage off.

at all since he can't contact sense, he has no moves that cover an extremely large AoE, nor can he see through the Genjutsu. When used with Joki Boy, a technique that will

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until its destroyed or stopped and a technique that is

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, Tobirama is pretty much screwed. He can't see Joki Boy coming due to the mirage, which makes them see

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while hiding the

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. Which will lead to Joki Boy blowing him to bits and him not being able to escape or defend since he doesn't know its coming at him. With Tobirama dead, the Mizukage can easily get behind the edos (Due to the mirage) and seal them away with the sealing tags provided in the OP.

He can easily dodge Joki Boy with FTG when its coming after him he can use it and can do it at pretty much anytime with the whole battlefield marked at this point. and i already explained earlier how he can find him with the water.

If the Mizukage opts not to use Joki Boy due to how it weakens his body, then he can just make use of the

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technique to shoot Tobirama through the heart while using the Mirage as cover to get close to him, allowing him to seal away the Edos later on without fail.

In this case this would make things easier for Tobirama, if he doesnt use joki boy and opts the water gun, then Tobirama can sense that the water gun is coming, use FTG to get away, and then will know where the mizukage is and destroys him with the stuff I said earlier.

Tobirama can't win this.

*will

P.S ive got a lot of stuff i gotta do today, the counter could be up by tonight, an hour, it might be a bit is what im saying.

 

[hixa kuogame]

I'll be a judge

 

[KidGamer65]

so what about the judges proposal in case neither of us can convince each other?

Fine by me.

This doesnt actually mean he can't sense him though, is there a scan where they say that they actually cant sense him cause of the mirage?

I just posted it.

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The guy clearly said that since its not a mirage, he can sense the Mizukage's chakra. Meaning that if it were a mirage, he couldn't sense his chakra.

"If its not a mirage, then I can sense him"

Not seeing what the confusion here is.

Either way, for the clam jutsu, the trollkage has nothing on Tobirama while the clam jutsu is out, aside from water bullets which can easily be avoided via FTG, so all Tobirama has to do is find him and not worry so much on the illusion,

Tobirama can't see the attacks coming so there is no way he is going to evade them with Hiraishin, as he'd have to know it was coming first. So no, Tobirama will die to a Water Bullet.

Tobirama can't find him though.

Another potential way Tobirama can sense him out aside from regular sensing is from regular water, If Tobirama keeps doing water dragon bullets around the area (this is assuming the second mizukage retreated too land since it would be foolish for the real ones to be hiding out on top of the water cause it would even prove this point better) If then the landscape is covered with water, their is a chance that since the water jutsus had chakra in it, similar to gaaras sand, can sense him out if the clam and mizukage are touching the water beneath them, basically sensing him out by the water

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Not gonna work.

Not only can the clam just simply move away from these attacks, all Tobirama would be sensing is the chakra of his water jutsu, he won't be able to sense the clam like Gaara can cause Gaara's Sensor Sand lets him sense whatever he the sand is touching at the moment. Tobirama's sensing lets him sense chakra. Far different from what you are implying Tobirama can do to sense out the clam.

All he'll end up sensing is his chakra in his water, but not anything else, he isn't a contact sensor like Gaara is.

There's also the fact that the mirage will constantly make him see the wrong images as shown in my first post.

Not to mention that the Mizukage isn't going to sit here and watch Tobirama do all this, when he can attack with Water Bullets or Joki Boy if needed.

In additon, Tobirama can use edo tensei t find it cause their can be a sensor that senses like gaara did, and even if not,They are simply a distraction for the mizukage while Tobirama find the real one (using the way i said with the water ) Now if the edos can potentially be sealed, Tobirama is a regular sensor and can sense this no matter what and can have the reflexes to teleport where the edo is and then teleport away with him again

When you are using two fodder Edos, its very unlikely they will be sensors at all let alone contact sensors. Two fodder Edos by themselves won't do any harm to the Mizukage nor will they be adequate distractions.

Good thing the edos are only to be sealed once Tobirama has been killed off, also, why would he waste time with the Edos when he can go right after the summoner, as he already knows of Tobirama's Edo Tensei,

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The edos can't do anything about it cause they won't won't know where the real Mizukage is due to the illusion.

Agree to disagree, water bullet is an advanced move if it isnt strong, then it wouldnt be worth anyones time learning since its 44 hand signs, plus cause of

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, do you know how much bigger the missile will be and how much stronger?

Here is The giant Clam

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Here is the water dragon bullet

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Ill admit if it were kakashi or zabuzas case, ill say they would have cracked it, however with Tobirama and a big water supply, it will be big enough to destroy it for as i have shown how incredible he is at suiton, it will undoubtably shatter it.

Again, no Suiton causes the type of damage necessary to completely break this clam. Shooting Water at a thing with a such a hard shell won't cause it to crack, its just water. The Suiton is strong but it won't do the type of damage necessary to smash the clam.

You are going to need something that can actually smash the clam in order to destroy it, Suiton isn't really cutting it.

It could have been after the clam was destroyed, he started the jutsu then and then had to keep the alliance at bay until Joki Boy has taken affect. Its a possibility but either way it doesnt make a difference.

Clam was destroyed like 3 pages before Joki boy came out.

Thus another way of finding out where the mizukage is from the

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, look at the people on top of Gamakichi, and how small they are and how massive the explosion is, if he sets off 2 of them at this location, it can blow up the clam and the mizukage.

This beach is a large location, attacking random areas won't work at all, not when him and his clam are both mobile as it clearly did not start off in the position it was destroyed at.

That scan even shows that it won't cover most of the area, so no this isn't happening.

I can agree that a slash wont kill him your right, however, point is he will still have the mizukage marked and weather or not a slash works (ill agree it wont ), he will still have the troll marked and can teleport to him at any time.

And explained how he would find him and how Gojo Kibakufuda will finish this trollkage off.

Too bad marking him is impossible within the illusion that Tobirama can't get out of, your water explanation was flawed.

He can easily dodge Joki Boy with FTG when its coming after him he can use it and can do it at pretty much anytime with the whole battlefield marked at this point. and i already explained earlier how he can find him with the water.

He'd have to be able to see it coming first, which is impossible due to the illusion, and he can't sense the real ones either.

In this case this would make things easier for Tobirama, if he doesnt use joki boy and opts the water gun, then Tobirama can sense that the water gun is coming, use FTG to get away, and then will know where the mizukage is and destroys him with the stuff I said earlier.

Again, the scan above shows that the real things can't be sensed within the illusion, so no, Tobirama won't sense the Mizukage coming nor will he sense Water Gun being used.

 

[deidara senpai]

my counter will be up later tonight most likely sorry for the possible delay

 

[Fodder#4]

C'me on KIdGamer! Do Trollkage justice and crush the damn Senjew!

 

[deidara senpai]

Alright im ready and going to go CRAZZZZYYYY NOW TOBIRAMA COMIN IN HOT STYLE

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I just posted it.

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The guy clearly said that since its not a mirage, he can sense the Mizukage's chakra. Meaning that if it were a mirage, he couldn't sense his chakra.

"If its not a mirage, then I can sense him"

Not seeing what the confusion here is.

What i'm saying is that just because the mirage is there, why would it affect of jam the sensing to find the real one? thats what i'm not saying, im just confused why it would jam it.

But that one doesnt matter, this is the one where i dont see Tobirama not being able to sense him with this.

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With the fingers on the ground he honestly can sense him out dont see how a mirage would jam the whole sensing especially this one, it even says that he can do it.

Tobirama Senju was also a very gifted sensor ninja. By simply touching the ground with his index finger, he could detect the presence and number of enemy shinobi. He was also able to detect Madara Uchiha's chakra on the battlefield some ways off and was also able to determine how Orochimaru's new body was made almost entirely from Hashirama's cells.

He can sense him and the clam out.


Also i explained another way of sensing him out by the water sensing tobirama can use but you probably countered it so ill see below.

Tobirama can't see the attacks coming so there is no way he is going to evade them with Hiraishin, as he'd have to know it was coming first. So no, Tobirama will die to a Water Bullet.

Tobirama can't find him though.

He is a sensor he can tell if the water bullet is coming at him, even if it is last second, he only needs an instant to use FTG so its pretty simple for him to dodge nidaimes only offensive attack while the genjutsu.

Iv'e explained 2 ways he can find him the finger one and the water one which i said already you probably posted a counter for it already so ill see below.

Not only can the clam just simply move away from these attacks, all Tobirama would be sensing is the chakra of his water jutsu, he won't be able to sense the clam like Gaara can cause Gaara's Sensor Sand lets him sense whatever he the sand is touching at the moment. Tobirama's sensing lets him sense chakra. Far different from what you are implying Tobirama can do to sense out the clam.

There's also the fact that the mirage will constantly make him see the wrong images as shown in my first post.

Not to mention that the Mizukage isn't going to sit here and watch Tobirama do all this, when he can attack with Water Bullets or Joki Boy if needed.

How would the giant clam move away from the attack? The mirage disappears and reappears but how would the real clam be able to do so, (btw for the bold, I just want to say Tobirama will obviously know that they are fake images he can sense they are fake or can get close and attack and realize its fake then can dodge the water bullet using FTG). As for not sensing him, since he can

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its obviously made of chakra, plus with his water (AKA his chakra ) everywhere after multiple water dragons or water walls, whatever Suiton he uses, it can touch the mizukage and the calm and can funnel his chakra to sense it out

Regardless of that though, i already above explained how he can sense him out with the finger anyway.

As for Joki Boy, I haven't even gotten to Joki Boy yet, ill move on to Joki Boy but it doesnt seem like im convincing you about how he gets past the mirage clam which I have already explained why.

(Read bottom of this post when done, I have a compromise about the Joki Boy)

When you are using two fodder Edos, its very unlikely they will be sensors at all let alone contact sensors. Two fodder Edos by themselves won't do any harm to the Mizukage nor will they be adequate distractions.

I mean im just saying its a possibility but since I already explained 2 methods how Tobirama would sense him out, it doesnt really matter anyway but they could distract the trollkage for a bit since Tobirama would only need a second plus he has incredible reflexes which we both can agree on (I'm not saying a distraction that Tobirama could attack or him during it since he is made out of liquid, I mean possibly preparing for something, could sense out the real troll just an example).

But fine we can go with no edos are sensors (doesnt make a difference anyway).

Good thing the edos are only to be sealed once Tobirama has been killed off, also, why would he waste time with the Edos when he can go right after the summoner, as he already knows of Tobirama's Edo Tensei,

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The edos can't do anything about it cause they won't won't know where the real Mizukage is due to the illusion.

How would he go straight for Tobirama though? with what, water gun can instantly be avoided via FTG which was said a lot before. He doesnt have any other attack to get Tobirama with the clam genjutsu out so he cant take Tobirama out so he would resort to Joki Boy (again, read the bottom of this post, I want to talk to you about something with Joki Boy).

Again, no Suiton causes the type of damage necessary to completely break this clam. Shooting Water at a thing with a such a hard shell won't cause it to crack, its just water. The Suiton is strong but it won't do the type of damage necessary to smash the clam.

You are going to need something that can actually smash the clam in order to destroy it, Suiton isn't really cutting it.

I have another counter for the water gun would be the water wall

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And this was with no water supply either, with a bigger one, he can make it much larger, you have been underestimating how much the water supply will help out Tobirama just like the water dragon jutsu, which with this massive water dragon with the source around him, it would honestly easily crush it especially because of how well known for how ridiculous his Suiton is.

This beach is a large location, attacking random areas won't work at all, not when him and his clam are both mobile as it clearly did not start off in the position it was destroyed at.

That scan even shows that it won't cover most of the area, so no this isn't happening.

It would make a big dent dude look at the back of it too imagine 2 of them, it would cover most of the area maybe not all but it would honestly be pretty damn close.

but thats only for finding the clam but I have posted other methods how too plus this will be more of the mizukage dying from it which ill get to later.

He'd have to be able to see it coming first, which is impossible due to the illusion, and he can't sense the real ones either.

Again, the scan above shows that the real things can't be sensed within the illusion, so no, Tobirama won't sense the Mizukage coming nor will he sense Water Gun being used.

Already posted the ways he can find him earlier


About the Joki Boy thing

Spoiler

So since we are going on about the clam genjutsu and not Joki Boy which unless this post changes your mind about the clam jutsu we will most likely agree to disagree with each other. I was thinking you could counter this post one more time then we move on to Joki Boy and leave the clam genjutsu we have been debating about to the judges decision. Its up to you cause I dont want to talk about Joki Boy while talking about the clam genjutsu plus I have counters for Joki Boy anyway.

 

[KidGamer65]

Alright im ready and going to go CRAZZZZYYYY NOW TOBIRAMA COMIN IN HOT STYLE

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What i'm saying is that just because the mirage is there, why would it affect of jam the sensing to find the real one? thats what i'm not saying, im just confused why it would jam it.

Don't ask me how it works, all I know is that its a fact that it would prevent the real one from being sensed.

But that one doesnt matter, this is the one where i dont see Tobirama not being able to sense him with this.

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With the fingers on the ground he honestly can sense him out dont see how a mirage would jam the whole sensing especially this one, it even says that he can do it.

He can sense him and the clam out.


Also i explained another way of sensing him out by the water sensing tobirama can use but you probably countered it so ill see below.

That is clearly derived from his chakra sensing technique. Especially considering the same wiki you got that from tells us that Tobirama is a very gifted Sensor Ninja, he can do those things. Not seeing how else he would be able to sense their presence without having to sense their chakra first.

He is a sensor he can tell if the water bullet is coming at him, even if it is last second, he only needs an instant to use FTG so its pretty simple for him to dodge nidaimes only offensive attack while the genjutsu.

Iv'e explained 2 ways he can find him the finger one and the water one which i said already you probably posted a counter for it already so ill see below.

If the mirage stops him from sensing the Mizukage's presence, then why would he be able to sense his attacks coming at him from the Mizukage? Pretty sure he won't be able to as shown by the scan I posted above.

How would the giant clam move away from the attack? The mirage disappears and reappears but how would the real clam be able to do so, (btw for the bold, I just want to say Tobirama will obviously know that they are fake images he can sense they are fake or can get close and attack and realize its fake then can dodge the water bullet using FTG). As for not sensing him, since he can

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its obviously made of chakra, plus with his water (AKA his chakra ) everywhere after multiple water dragons or water walls, whatever Suiton he uses, it can touch the mizukage and the calm and can funnel his chakra to sense it out

The clam started

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, but ended up

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. So clearly it has the ability to move. So it can evade if necessary, especially considering the chances of him hitting in this widespread area are very unlikely due to the mirage.

Like I said above, how is he going to sense the Mizukage's attacks when he can't even sense the Mizukage himself?

Pretty sure you already posted this method of sensing and I already explained why it won't work. He'd be sensing his chakra in the water. He won't be sensing the positions of the clam or the Mizukage nor will he be sensing their chakra. He uses the chakra sensing technique, he isn't a contact sensor who uses water as a medium just how Gaara uses Sand as a medium.

I mean im just saying its a possibility but since I already explained 2 methods how Tobirama would sense him out, it doesnt really matter anyway but they could distract the trollkage for a bit since Tobirama would only need a second plus he has incredible reflexes which we both can agree on (I'm not saying a distraction that Tobirama could attack or him during it since he is made out of liquid, I mean possibly preparing for something, could sense out the real troll just an example).

Your methods don't work, cause they would all rely on sensing his chakra in the end.

Needs a second for what? He can't do anything to the Mizukage cause he can't sense him or find him at all.

But fine we can go with no edos are sensors (doesnt make a difference anyway).


How would he go straight for Tobirama though? with what, water gun can instantly be avoided via FTG which was said a lot before. He doesnt have any other attack to get Tobirama with the clam genjutsu out so he cant take Tobirama out so he would resort to Joki Boy (again, read the bottom of this post, I want to talk to you about something with Joki Boy).

Again, how is he going to sense the Mizukage attacking when he can't even sense the Mizukage himself. Not seeing how that makes sense, so he can't evade anything at all.

I have another counter for the water gun would be the water wall

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And this was with no water supply either, with a bigger one, he can make it much larger, you have been underestimating how much the water supply will help out Tobirama just like the water dragon jutsu, which with this massive water dragon with the source around him, it would honestly easily crush it especially because of how well known for how ridiculous his Suiton is.

Again, Suitons don't cause crushing type damage. It doesn't matter how good someone is with it cause it won't cause the type of damage necessary to smash the clam, even if it could, he still can't find him so it really doesn't matter.

For example. Madara is the best it at and his are Juubi sized, but he can't destroy the clam with that alone cause Katon doesn't cause the crushing type damage necessary to smash the clam.

It would make a big dent dude look at the back of it too imagine 2 of them, it would cover most of the area maybe not all but it would honestly be pretty damn close.

but thats only for finding the clam but I have posted other methods how too plus this will be more of the mizukage dying from it which ill get to later.

See above.




About the Joki Boy thing

Spoiler

So since we are going on about the clam genjutsu and not Joki Boy which unless this post changes your mind about the clam jutsu we will most likely agree to disagree with each other. I was thinking you could counter this post one more time then we move on to Joki Boy and leave the clam genjutsu we have been debating about to the judges decision. Its up to you cause I dont want to talk about Joki Boy while talking about the clam genjutsu plus I have counters for Joki Boy anyway.

[/QUOTE]

Joki Boy is best used while the Mirage is up, so the Mizukage would most likely use it when the mirage is up and not after its down, so these two techniques go hand in hand. Not seeing how we can accurately talk about Joki Boy when the Mirage is unresolved.

 

[pateuvasiliu]

Finger sensing should pretty much be the same thing as sand sensing, when it comes to mechanics.

Minato uses it without being a sensor ( from what we know ) so you are wrong about it being linked to Tobirama's sensing ability.

 

[KidGamer65]

Finger sensing should pretty much be the same thing as sand sensing, when it comes to mechanics.

Minato uses it without being a sensor ( from what we know ) so you are wrong about it being linked to Tobirama's sensing ability.

Us not knowing that Minato is a sensor doesn't mean that this tech isn't linked to the chakra sensing technique. For all we know he could be a sensor. Minato using this technique and then Tobirama later being confirmed as a sensor, who used the same technique as Minato does is only strong evidence that Minato is also able to sense chakra.

Not to mention that doesn't work like contact sensing does. Gaara uses special sand that latches on to someone or something and allows them to detect his presence through the sand.

Tobirama/Minato touches the ground and it lets them sense every enemy in the vicinity. He isn't using contact to discern their presence so its clear to me that he is using chakra to do so.

 

[pateuvasiliu]

He isn't using contact to discern their presence so its clear to me that he is using chakra to do so.

Then why does he need to touch the ground for it?

 

[KidGamer65]

Then why does he need to touch the ground for it?

That isn't even contact.

Sand touching the target. That is contact sensing. He isn't making contact with the target when he does that, so clearly is it derived from the chakra sensing technique.

 

[pateuvasiliu]

That isn't even contact.

Sand touching the target. That is contact sensing. He isn't making contact with the target when he does that, so clearly is it derived from the chakra sensing technique.

He makes contact with the earth, which makes contact with the target just the same as sand does.

It isn't rocket science.

 

[KidGamer65]

He makes contact with the earth, which makes contact with the target just the same as sand does.

It isn't rocket science.

lol? Do you even know how contact sensing works? To sense someone with contact you have to be making directcontact with the person you are trying to sense. Is the sand touching the target? Yes, so Gaara can sense him or it out. Is Tobirama touching the person he is trying to sense out? No. Contact sensing is achieved through direct contact only. Nothing else. Thus Tobirama does not use contact sensing, it is not the same thing.

Your post simply tells me that the Earth is making contact with the person who is being sensed, not that Tobirama is making contact with the person who is trying to be sensed.