Ōnoki vs A

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Location: Raikage vs Sasuke area
Distance: 20 metres
Knowledge: Manga knowledge
Restrictions: None
 

AGoodBoy

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I'm going with Ay.

Though Oonoki can fly, that is pretty useless. Flight isn't the only deciding factor in a battle seeing as many shinobi without flight were able to defeat those with it. Let's analyse this battle. I'm sure we all understand Ay's fighting style and how basic it is; It revolves around High speed wrestling with his very durable body.

Now, Onoki has jinton, Weight Jutsu, Mobile Core jutsu, and golem jutsu at his disposal. But, all these jutsu are effortlessly countered with Ay's speed. Firstly, Oonoki(based on war arc feat) possesses Rock clone jutsu, 9 Jinton, Super light weight jutsu, super aggravated rock jutsu, and mobile core jutsu before he's completely out of chakra. This shows us that onoki is limited to a maximum of 10 jinton and nothing more, or more jutsu but reduced jinton. Let's go closer...

Mobile Core
This jutsu is completely and utterly useless against Ay. Ninja can run up vertical slopes, making any form of mobile core extremely ineffective. Even if Oonoki were to sink him with a mobile core, then proceed to jinton or drop a golem in there, Ay would be long out of that whole due to his sheer speed.

Super lightweight/aggravated rock jutsu
For very obvious reasons, this jutsu is completely and utterly useless. onoki needs to be within CQC to use this jutsu. The second Onoki reaches there, Ay's high speed and high reaction would leave him comatose. This isn't even debateable why these 2 jutsu are practically suicide for onoki to attempt. Infact, let's assume ay comes in for a liger bomb. If onoki tries to make him lightweight then so he can lift him and fly off, Onoki just made ay faster and incredibly annoying. Even increasing his jump distance. Whereas, if he were to increase his weight, he'd have also increased his strength, effectively allowing Ay to reduce him to a blood splat.

Golem
Though this is effective, it's also useless. The golem jutsu isn't fast, nor has it ever been hinted to being this. The golem is only useful against long ranged/mid ranged large techniques - non of which ay possesses. Even if a large golem were to be summoned to fight, it could be effortlessly out maneuvered.

Rock clones
This is one of onoki's only viable defences. With this, onoki can create copies of himself to decrease ay's odds of hitting the real ay. The downside to this jutsu is that it will decrease the number of jintons Onoki is capable of using. Infact, if these are based off the shadow clone jutsu, every onoki will be weaker, whereas if it's simple clone jutsu, all clones would be incredibly weak. This is a great defence for onoki to buy time, but it'd be useless in the end.

Flight
Onoki's best defence would be his flight to keep out of ay's range. But, flying is pretty pointless when you're never hitting your opponent, it'd reduce this fight to a stalemate. Most importantly, however, is the fact that fast ninja have shown incredible jump heights[ ][ ]. Unless Onoki stays up in the stratosphere to fight(impossible as he'd be unable to see), he'd always be within ay's jump height. Ay would be capable of quick V2 jump bursts to overwhelm onoki in speed and give him a smack that'd definitely send his cracked back right down to earth.

Jinton
This is Onoki's only option to battle with Ay. Why is this? Simply put, As a raikage, Ay's body is very durable and highly resistant to most damage. Ay simply doesn't possess any attack apart from Jinton to harm ay's body. Even a punch from the rock golem would possibly be ineffective. But, the highly overlooked aspect of jinton is that it is not that big. Infact, it's slightly bigger than human size - or . A jutsu of this size is easily dodged by someone with Ay's Insane speed. Onoki's only viable attack is completely useless in this fight without incredible strategy - strategy which evidently requires other jutsu, which would also reduce the total numbers of jinton he'd be able to fire during this battle. N.B Onoki doesn't have Tsunade here to boost his jinton.


As we can see, Onoki is completely outclassed by Ay and infact needs a very solid plan to hit him with his only viable attack - jinton. Infact, onoki would be on the defence the entire time dragging the battle out. With his stamina levels(lower than ay) and bad back, Onoki has no chance in a battle of attrition. Whereas, Any single attack by ay spells ER for Onoki. Due to onoki's weight and size, Horizontal chop, Liger bomb, V drop, or Lightning straight are all 1 shot jutsu.




With this distance(60 ft) onoki has just enough space to get height and stop a 1 shot, but in the end, Ay wins this battle low/mid diff. Ay simply has to dodge Jintons(easy even in V1) and get in 1 hit on onoki.
 

BlueMeteor

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I agree with this guy^ Ay wins high diff
 

KidGamer65

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I was going to say Ay, but AGoodBoy's post makes me think Ay can definitely take this.
 

Prince Charles

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Though Oonoki can fly, that is pretty useless. Flight isn't the only deciding factor in a battle seeing as many shinobi without flight were able to defeat those with it. Let's analyse this battle. I'm sure we all understand Ay's fighting style and how basic it is; It revolves around High speed wrestling with his very durable body.

Now, Onoki has jinton, Weight Jutsu, Mobile Core jutsu, and golem jutsu at his disposal. But, all these jutsu are effortlessly countered with Ay's speed. Firstly, Oonoki(based on war arc feat) possesses Rock clone jutsu, 9 Jinton, Super light weight jutsu, super aggravated rock jutsu, and mobile core jutsu before he's completely out of chakra. This shows us that onoki is limited to a maximum of 10 jinton and nothing more, or more jutsu but reduced jinton. Let's go closer...

Cool story bro, but don't tell me more.

Mobile Core
This jutsu is completely and utterly useless against Ay. Ninja can run up vertical slopes, making any form of mobile core extremely ineffective. Even if Oonoki were to sink him with a mobile core, then proceed to jinton or drop a golem in there, Ay would be long out of that whole due to his sheer speed.

Fair enough but it would still be useful in regards to Onoki in prepping Jinton.

For very obvious reasons, this jutsu is completely and utterly useless. onoki needs to be within CQC to use this jutsu. The second Onoki reaches there, Ay's high speed and high reaction would leave him comatose. This isn't even debateable why these 2 jutsu are practically suicide for onoki to attempt. Infact, let's assume ay comes in for a liger bomb. If onoki tries to make him lightweight then so he can lift him and fly off, Onoki just made ay faster and incredibly annoying. Even increasing his jump distance. Whereas, if he were to increase his weight, he'd have also increased his strength, effectively allowing Ay to reduce him to a blood splat.
Onoki is not a necessity to be within CQC to touch Ay. We already saw how Ay's backside was vulnerable to multiple enemies[ ]. Keeping that in mind not only will clones be troublesome adding in the fact that they also can fly, all they have to do is swoop quickly and touch Ay slowing him down tremendously ending this with a jinton. The clones swooping in will be of no worry when we take into factor of

Golem
Though this is effective, it's also useless. The golem jutsu isn't fast, nor has it ever been hinted to being this. The golem is only useful against long ranged/mid ranged large techniques - non of which ay possesses. Even if a large golem were to be summoned to fight, it could be effortlessly out maneuvered.

It not totally useless. Just as it was demonstrated against Ay during the war the sussano clone was capable of grabbing hold of him. The goldem with it's immense size and structure should be capable of pulling off the same feat giving the chance it can.

Rock clones
This is one of onoki's only viable defences. With this, onoki can create copies of himself to decrease ay's odds of hitting the real ay. The downside to this jutsu is that it will decrease the number of jintons Onoki is capable of using. Infact, if these are based off the shadow clone jutsu, every onoki will be weaker, whereas if it's simple clone jutsu, all clones would be incredibly weak. This is a great defence for onoki to buy time, but it'd be useless in the end.

Agreeable.

But he was still capable of performing Doton techs.



Flight
Onoki's best defence would be his flight to keep out of ay's range. But, flying is pretty pointless when you're never hitting your opponent, it'd reduce this fight to a stalemate. Most importantly, however, is the fact that fast ninja have shown incredible jump heights[ ][ ]. Unless Onoki stays up in the stratosphere to fight(impossible as he'd be unable to see), he'd always be within ay's jump height. Ay would be capable of quick V2 jump bursts to overwhelm onoki in speed and give him a smack that'd definitely send his cracked back right down to earth.

What? Ay has hardly even shown such remarkable jump height feats that even suggests he would be capable of touching Onoki? Unless im mistaken? The scan you showed of Gai sensei jump feat was Either way I won't deny just for the heck of it that he will be capable of reaching Onoki but your not taking into factor once Ay goes mid air he will be vulnerable to . Or better yet the other multiple Rock clones that will also be in mid air along with onoki and last I checked Ay cannot tel the difference between clones so for all we know he can attack the wrong one which will leave his fate in hands to a jinton cube.

Jinton
This is Onoki's only option to battle with Ay. Why is this? Simply put, As a raikage, Ay's body is very durable and highly resistant to most damage. Ay simply doesn't possess any attack apart from Jinton to harm ay's body. Even a punch from the rock golem would possibly be ineffective. But, the highly overlooked aspect of jinton is that it is not that big. Infact, it's slightly bigger than human size - or . A jutsu of this size is easily dodged by someone with Ay's Insane speed. Onoki's only viable attack is completely useless in this fight without incredible strategy - strategy which evidently requires other jutsu, which would also reduce the total numbers of jinton he'd be able to fire during this battle. N.B Onoki doesn't have Tsunade here to boost his jinton.

His speed will be troublesome but as I already pointed out Onoki has ways to combat against it with the use of rock clones and his heavy aggravated technique which will slow down Ay enough to the point where a simple will take care of the job.
 

AGoodBoy

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Cool story bro, but don't tell me more.



Fair enough but it would still be useful in regards to Onoki in prepping Jinton.


Onoki is not a necessity to be within CQC to touch Ay. We already saw how Ay's backside was vulnerable to multiple enemies[ ]. Keeping that in mind not only will clones be troublesome adding in the fact that they also can fly, all they have to do is swoop quickly and touch Ay slowing him down tremendously ending this with a jinton. The clones swooping in will be of no worry when we take into factor of



It not totally useless. Just as it was demonstrated against Ay during the war the sussano clone was capable of grabbing hold of him. The goldem with it's immense size and structure should be capable of pulling off the same feat giving the chance it can.



Agreeable.

But he was still capable of performing Doton techs.





What? Ay has hardly even shown such remarkable jump height feats that even suggests he would be capable of touching Onoki? Unless im mistaken? The scan you showed of Gai sensei jump feat was Either way I won't deny just for the heck of it that he will be capable of reaching Onoki but your not taking into factor once Ay goes mid air he will be vulnerable to . Or better yet the other multiple Rock clones that will also be in mid air along with onoki and last I checked Ay cannot tel the difference between clones so for all we know he can attack the wrong one which will leave his fate in hands to a jinton cube.



His speed will be troublesome but as I already pointed out Onoki has ways to combat against it with the use of rock clones and his heavy aggravated technique which will slow down Ay enough to the point where a simple will take care of the job.

You don't want this... I was going to write something lengthy, but You don't want to hear anymore of my awesomely written stories :(

In short, Raiton > Doton. Rock clones, and Rock golem are all useless instantly :/
 

Prince Charles

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You don't want this... I was going to write something lengthy, but You don't want to hear anymore of my awesomely written stories :(

In short, Raiton > Doton. Rock clones, and Rock golem are all useless instantly :/

You simply lack the mental fundamentals to understand the rock clones and golems and usefulness here. U_U
 

KidGamer65

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forget it. Onoki can take this. I agree with PC.
 

EZQ

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Jinton is not touching Ay.... just wanted to clarify that, He can just dodge it

Following all the arguments tje main problem for Ay is Onoki flying and the Main problem for Oonoki is to not get close to Ay

I think it could go either way High diff , a lil bit more towards Onoki
 

Liath

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PC's doin work.

Ohnoki (is it Ohnoki, oonoki, or onoki?) wins high diff.
 

pateuvasiliu

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To make it short.

Stamina : Ay > Onoki

Speed: Ay> Onoki

Onoki's only survival chance is flying and his stamina is lower than Ay's. He can't fly forever, whereas Ay only needs Raiton Cloak when Onoki uses Jinton.

Ay definitely takes this.
 

AGoodBoy

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You simply lack the mental fundamentals to understand the rock clones and golems and usefulness here. U_U

Bro... is what happens when These rock clones meet ay's fist. Raiton > Doton. It's that simple. I'm surprised you even swayed people's minds with your post seeing as i didn't see much in it needing a valid counter. :eww:

I'll break down your post quickly.

Mobile core isn't useful period. Jinton has prep time and is slightly bigger than human size. Ay can cover [ ] much distance in an instant. He'd get out of within seconds; onoki won't be able to put his hands together.

As for your argument about Ay can be overwhelmed by multiply opponents and then caught by a golem... that's not the case in this battle. Let's not forget, Ay fought 5 susano'o clones and didn't look to be in trouble. Infact, just like your scan suggested, he was handling multiple enemies just fine until , distracting him in the process. In this battle, Ay has no one to distract him and, even more importantly, he's aware of how many opponents he's fighting due to the clone creation - , which is within numbers ay can handle.

"But he was still capable of performing Doton techs.

http://94.23.34.161/manga/mangas/Nar...ukage!!/07.png"
Yes, I mentioned this. rock clones, 9 jinton, super aggrave and lightweight and mobile core. After the rockclone and 9 jinton he couldn't jinton anymore. after the other 3 jutsu, he couldn't use jutsu period.

The jump height thing, i can't really argue that since he have no evidence. The best I can say is that ninja know how to jump[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]. I'm assuming ay can jump pretty high too.
 

Prince Charles

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I'm already aware of the elemental advantage has over Ay. But the major flaw in your argument is that you assume Ay will be capable of taking out all of the rock clone when they also have distance and flight advantage. Meaning Ay won't be connecting his fist so easily as you presume he would.

Mobile core isn't useful period. Jinton has prep time and is slightly bigger than human size. Ay can cover [ ] much distance in an instant. He'd get out of within seconds; onoki won't be able to put his hands together.

Again your argument is flawed because you assume Onoki will be doing all the work. This is a team group support in regards to his rock clones. If onoki is smart some of his rock clones will be placed near the ground for offensive support and the remaining will be left up in the sky with the original. Ay wont be able to keep track of all of the rock clones which leaves him vulnerable to getting tapped on the back and his weight increasing slowing him down tremendously.

I wont deny he wont be capable of getting out of the radius of the jinton if needed but than again as I said before Onoki has his ways of countering his speed. The mobile core is actually useful when their is more than one Onoki on the battle field. Ay's movements are very direct and linear, keeping that in mind Onoki's clones job will be restrict Ay's movements by making large gaps in the earth. Less space = restricted movement for Ay.

As for your argument about Ay can be overwhelmed by multiply opponents and then caught by a golem... that's not the case in this battle. Let's not forget, Ay fought 5 susano'o clones and didn't look to be in any much trouble. Infact, just like your scan suggested, he was handling multiple enemies just fine until tsunade ****ed up, distracting him in the process. In this battle, Ay has no one to distract him and, even more importantly, he's aware of how many opponents he's fighting due to the clone creation - evidently, oonoki's only made 4 clones max, which is within numbers ay can handle.

Quite funny because I don't recall the sussano clones having the capability to fly which makes this situation even more dangerous. Anyway's the susano clones confrontation was also a group effort as shown when Onoki Saved Ay from the clones genjutsu. Your simply not comprehending the utilization onoki and his clones will have.

Once the clones are made and onoki is safely in distance, the clones role will be to support Ay. An easier way for Ay to get his weight heavier would be for one of the clones to swoop and and making it more of a easier task for one of the clones to swoop in and tag Ay.

Yes, I mentioned this. rock clones, 9 jinton, super aggrave and lightweight and mobile core. After the rockclone and 9 jinton he couldn't jinton anymore. after the other 3 jutsu, he couldn't use jutsu period.

Doesnt matter as seeing that situation wont be a problem here because he will end this.

The jump height thing, i can't really argue that since he have no evidence. The best I can say is that ninja know how to jump[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]. I'm assuming ay can jump pretty high too.



First scan - sasuke clearly utilized his katana and his curse mark wings..

second scan - hardly a high jump... Certainly not enough to reach onoki

Third scan - Enhanced by the power of Deva

Anyways none of that is irrelevant, Even if Ay jumped and got close to onoki, he will fall victim to the rock clones and make his weight heavier. Not too mention Onoki should be capable of expelling golems out of his mouth as a to reduce Ay's attack.
 

AGoodBoy

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I think I understand the problem here. You're underestimating ay's speed and over-estimating Oonoki's own. Let us not forget that ay can move at view speeds.

Though I have no idea how resiliant rock clones are, they shouldn't be any more resiliant than simple shadow clone.

One last thing before I begin... OP stated there's manga knowledge. Ay know's full well to watch out for super aggravated rock technique(which actually doesn't immobilise him considering he was able to punch with it), flight and jinton. All onoki know's to look out for is speed. That's not really a big checklist.

I'm already aware of the elemental advantage has over Ay. But the major flaw in your argument is that you assume Ay will be capable of taking out all of the rock clone when they also have distance and flight advantage. Meaning Ay won't be connecting his fist so easily as you presume he would.



Again your argument is flawed because you assume Onoki will be doing all the work. This is a team group support in regards to his rock clones. If onoki is smart some of his rock clones will be placed near the ground for offensive support and the remaining will be left up in the sky with the original. Ay wont be able to keep track of all of the rock clones which leaves him vulnerable to getting tapped on the back and his weight increasing slowing him down tremendously.
Now, there is a massive flaw in your second paragraph. You're over estimating the strength of the rock clones. if they're based off the shadow clone jutsu, each rock clone is infact 1/5 the strength of the original. 1/5 of onoki's strength is not enough to take on raikage from the ground. Now, more importantly then this, you're mistaken about the mechanics of lightweight and aggravated. Onoki needs to make with the opponent then perform the jutsu. If he performs the jutsu before he makes contact, it's completely and utterly wasted. No matter what scan you look at, you'd notice onoki had to make contact prior to activating the jutsu. furthermore, the jutsu can't be left 'active' so that it just works when onoki places his hand on the opponent. The reason this becomes vital is because ay is farrrrr faster than onoki. Something you really overlook in your arguments with onoki's rock clones flying in is that onoki doesn't have a sharingan. If onoki simply flies in at high speed, he'd fall victim to this ; Don't even attempt to state otherwise, as the only way Onoki would ever outspeed Ay, to the point where he can rush in on him, would be with an incredibly high speed attack. Now, what makes this utter suicide is the fact that, like i said before, Ay is suicide. Anything apart from long ranged attacks, from onoki, is simply idiotic.

Ay was capable of dodging a , dodge , speed before he could perform a jutsu, , and KCM naruto[ ][ ].
We even saw that ay is capable of processing at once by the way he was prepared to hop to whichever kunai minato ported to.

The notion that Onoki, his golem, or his clones can not only engage Ay in CQC, but also activate a jutsu is beyond fantasy. Not even KCM naruto could in time. I'm sorry, but Onoki has no feat to suggest that he can engage Ay in any form of CQC. Speed blitzing has never worked on Ay either.

I wont deny he wont be capable of getting out of the radius of the jinton if needed but than again as I said before Onoki has his ways of countering his speed. The mobile core is actually useful when their is more than one Onoki on the battle field. Ay's movements are very direct and linear, keeping that in mind Onoki's clones job will be restrict Ay's movements by making large gaps in the earth. Less space = restricted movement for Ay.
Like i said in my initial post, . Onoki can't trap ay with a simple hole in the ground. The wider the hole, the more space ay has to dodge. Infact, with this hole, onoki has to now come lower to attack ay properly, therefore, if ay were to jump off one of the side of the walls, he'd have less of a vertical height to travel to reach onoki.


Quite funny because I don't recall the sussano clones having the capability to fly which makes this situation even more dangerous. Anyway's the susano clones confrontation was also a group effort as shown when Onoki Saved Ay from the clones genjutsu. Your simply not comprehending the utilization onoki and his clones will have.
Flight and the clones are pointless. The only use of the clones is to come within CQC to use aggravated rock, at which point they get . There is nothing suggesting these clones can use jinton seeing as

Once the clones are made and onoki is safely in distance, the clones role will be to support Ay. An easier way for Ay to get his weight heavier would be for one of the clones to swoop and and making it more of a easier task for one of the clones to swoop in and tag Ay.
Raising the earth may work to increase the speed with which they can make contact and then activate the jutsu, but ay was able to dodge a point blank attack, it's highly unlikely something of that level will hit him, especially considering madara was able to activate a susano'o in time.


Doesnt matter as seeing that situation wont be a problem here because he will end this.





First scan - sasuke clearly utilized his katana and his curse mark wings..

second scan - hardly a high jump... Certainly not enough to reach onoki

Third scan - Enhanced by the power of Deva

Anyways none of that is irrelevant, Even if Ay jumped and got close to onoki, he will fall victim to the rock clones and make his weight heavier. Not too mention Onoki should be capable of expelling golems out of his mouth as a to reduce Ay's attack.
That rock golem will be punched through with ease. It's a pointless defence against a raiton user.

Guess i don't need to respond to the jump thing howeveer.




Let's not forget just . . is.
 

TheEvilOne

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Onoki is the strongest of the Gokage.
 

AGoodBoy

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Onoki is the strongest of the Gokage.

There was no strongest KAge IMO. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. The same way Ay can take out onoki and probably mei is the same way onoki can take out tsunade and probably gaara.
 
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