I, frankly, had no idea what you meant. It sounded like you were trying to change what I stated and then respond to a statement that never really occurred.
It's cool, you do now so no hard feelings.
Naruto was not severely handicapped. He was bloodlusted, and wanted to get Sasuke back - probably the strongest motive / incentive to fight at his peak. He was tapping into the Kyuubi's chakra as well, enhancing all of his physical attributes.
Actually, that, along with most "feats" involving Kimimaro is a common misconception. Do you remember how shadow clones work? Basically, it splits your chakra in half or as Madara calls it multiplies your incompetence.
When Naruto summons 1,000 clones to attack something sure it can beat fodder like Mizuki or help him out with battle tactics like vs Pain or part 1 Gaara when not bloodlusted. Against someone who is actually decent at taijutsu? Naruto was terrible at taijutsu back then he basically punched and kicked things when someone like Lee or Sasuke had tact to it. It's not difficult for Kimimaro to kill 1,000 clones that die in 1 hit when they're charging straight at him blindly and only have a thousandth of Naruto's full chakra pool.
With that said, Asuma should easily be able to take 1000 KN0 clones as well. So as for the misconception, yes Naruto was handicapped, or they didn't have anything near a full fight at least. Naruto sent 1 wave of weak taijutsu inept clones at him, that was it. Then
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happens and he completely diverts his attention to Sasuke, completely ignoring Kimimaro's presence entirely like he would if it was a serious 1v1 fight.
Then you claim he was bloodlusted? Well I have trouble believing SRA Naruto went all out against him considering
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does not equal
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, even though KN0 tanked a chidori through the lung and healed it effortlessly within seconds let alone what KN1 is capable of. Then there is the whole Gamabunta summoning thing but I'm not here to argue SRA Naruto vs Kimimaro, that's even more unfair.
So in summary, if anything, wanting to get Sasuke was a hindrance considering the second he left the pail Naruto ignored Kimimaro's existence and ran after Sasuke, only reason Lee had to save him. If they ended up 1v1ing to the death Kimimaro sadly wouldn't have lived to tell the tale.
Gaara was in no means handicapped - in fact, he was empowered. Unlike his normal self, he fought calmly rather than recklessly, and had tons of sand to work rather than just the limited amount provided by his gourd sand. Furthermore, he hardened his sand with the earth's strongest minerals. In other words, the sand Gaara used in that battle was probably the hardest sand he ever used in his entire life.
Your original post was filled to the brim with A>B>C logic so I'll explain now, Gaara is one of the worst possible opponents to face Kimimaro given his bones counteract all the "pressure" of his techniques perfectly, AKA the only thing Gaara can even do offensively. As opposed to Asuma, whose attacks are slicing based and happen to be composed of the most powerful element for doing just that. Raiton already cut through far worse in the manga so Asuma shouldn't have a problem cutting through what he wants.
Actually, this argument sounds
eerily similar to one I made a year ago, tis a shame, if only anyone actually had any intention of going back and attempting to reply to it. But again, I totally understand if no one wants to who is on the Kimimaro side, as doing so would be conceding defeat so it's all good.
And as I've said earlier, an unserious Rock Lee beat two-tomoe Sasuke, who man-handled two Chunin. So even if he didn't use gates, Rock Lee is still clearly above Chunin level, let alone when fighting with the drunken fist.
Then you have to scale up a bit sir, because Asuma is actually a named character who fights other named characters, and didn't get one paneled by chapter ~5 Sasuke. If chapter 5 Sasuke was "chunin level" and 2 Tokubetsu Jonin can push the entirety of the sound 4 to their limits I don't know what manga you're reading, but that basically puts Asuma up in the kage tier.
Rock Lee did not go gates, but he made up for that with his unpredictable drunk fighting.
No he did not, unpredictable fighting style makes up for a gigantic boost in Lee's speed and strength that not even base Kakashi could keep up with and could wreck Gaara's sand shield completely bypassing it?
The "jonin" during the exams were impressed, at Lee's display more so than pretty much anyone else's, an unpredictable fighting style doesn't make up for the fact he would have overwhelmed Kimimaro completely and left him a pile of dust if he wasn't
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Kimi was shocked Lee was able to land a hit with drunken fist? I'd hate to imagine what would happen if he can't even see Lee. Let alone manage out a quick bone shield from his chest out of the entire 2 seconds Lee entered
first gate, and even then he was running whirlwinds around Kimimaro, literally(which is pretty much what gave him the time to react in the first place).
The main characters of this manga are stronger than their rank is. An average Chunin is by no means stronger than a main character Genin. As a child, Gaara was killing hired assassins from the Kazekage, and effortlessly cleared the forest of death with zero injuries. He probably became Kazekage soon after the SRA battle too, given the fact that villages don't go long without a Kage, as seen how quickly Konoha attempted to replace Tsunade.
All of the main characters, at least during Part I, are much stronger than their rank indicates. Naruto, Sasuke, Lee, Neji, and Gaara were by no means Genin / Chunin level. They were all stronger than Chunin level from the moment the manga began, and only got stronger as the manga progressed and they gained more powerups (basic combat training, Chidori, Rasengan, Cursed Seal, Kyuubi chakra, etc).
The reason for this is because Kishi actually cares about rank, if you want to bring the people who were one paneled like Mizuki and Demon Brothers into the argument then try and use a more realistic tier list. There are chunin fodder who get one paneled by genin and there are the actual named chunin of the manga like any of the rookies in Part 2. There are also named Jonin like Asuma and Kakashi.
2 inferior tokubetsu Jonin who have had like 1 panel screentime total stalemated the sound 4 by themselves even forcing them to utilize CS2 and they couldn't move their bodies afterward. That alone proves Kishi cares about rank, given those guys beat pretty much all of the SRA squad 1v1 or at least were very close matches. Since all of the main character "genin" are at least chunin level, isn't it common sense to just scale up in power level? SRA ninjas become a jonin by default because they beat fodders with that rank? Then it puts the actual Jonin who DID crap on the sound 4 on a way higher tier, apparently. There's no need to make it so complicated man.
If someone who got stomped in one panel(cough Mizuki) by an actual
genin is above "chunin" level then where does it put Asuma, Gai, Kakashi etc. who are on another tier? I mean, chapter 1 Naruto is already a chunin in your eyes...
You seem to be confused though. Fodder like demon brothers aren't "chunin level", they're punching bags for the main characters and don't actually have importance of rank. Try and find a difference between being a Chunin and being a chunin LEVEL. There's a reason the main arc of the manga is called the
chunin exams lol. Whoever fails in them aren't considered strong enough to be promoted to a chunin, that's how powerful a "chunin" is and it was heavily emphasized.
Everyone else had to take these tests too. And tokubetsu Jonin incapacitated the same people who were fighting on the level of what you'd call the "chunin level" main characters, even when outnumbered. So what say you about an actual JONIN, if 2 tokubetsu's can beat 4 "chunin+ level main characters"? Surely you wouldn't claim Kimimaro can take all of the sound 4 at once...? By using rational logic you can conclude pretty much any Jonin is on another tier, and another tier to Kimimaro. Seriously, super simple.
No, but I would argue that Asuma wouldn't completely stomp SRA Naruto which is who we are talking about here since that is who fought Kimimaro.
You're right, Asuma wouldn't completely stomp him, because Kimimaro wouldn't either. If you mean the Naruto who sent one wave of clones at Kimimaro and then ignored Kimimaro immediately after that having no intention of fighting with him? Then yeah Asuma could stomp that version of him too.
You might ask yourself "but Joki, what about Lee". Well, since I pay attention to character's ranks and what Kishi actually intended when writing, I'm not about to claim a full fledged Jonin with higher overall stats by far to lose in a match to people who haven't even officially become chunin yet. Asuma could face off 1v1 against a base Lee with severe handicaps like the one who fought Kimimaro.
I'd also argue that Asuma would flat out lose to SRA Gaara.
Yep, this is precisely the only time Asuma would see trouble in Kimimaro's position. When Gaara arrives, and Asuma finally has to face an opponent whose kit he doesn't completely counter, like Kimimaro gets the benefit of having on Gaara.
Well you seem pretty ok man, but who knows how long it will last, I've seen good people fall to inability to be civil in arguments all the time. Inb4 a bunch of flame/passive aggressiveness in your next post rofl. AKA the one time I decide to get manga scans it ends up being a huge waste of time...which the reason I don't actually give any effort in the first place
Black wolf time to get an avatar and sig. You seem like a up incoming debater and it is good your on the come up, but becase we seen you here more often get a avatar and sig so people focus into more you say.
Yeah he seems pretty chill. At least he decided to argue on the actual match professionally, instead of failing to re-counter my posts from like a year+ ago and then get 4 other guys who hate me for backup. I feel the best part is that Kimimaro winning is the popular opinion by far yet opposition is still so so insecure, all my eating of tears.
Welcome back Joki into debate threads. (it is like a ghost has been reawaken. Man excitement how the hell did you even find the post after a year? Is there some kind of alert if someone responds to a thread someone is in. Man phucking loving this)
Nahhh don't welcome me back I still haven't posted in like 6 months legitimately, I just heard my name being called by Ice and the fellow Anti-Joki cult. They were clearly performing some strange ritual to summon yours truly the sexy beast, so I decided I'd show up instead of let year old me get ganged up on. Despite the fact current me doesn't actually have to do anything other than chuckle at their attempts to "counter" my old posts, because the me from a year ago already did all the work that everyone here is still very seemingly butthurt to this day lololol.
Besides Black Wolf of course <3
One question did you and Charles get into it again somewhere else on the base like good old times to bring this fight back up. Nice.
I don't even know/remember him rofl, he was probably just some guy who got stomped hard by me at some point in the past. What other reason would you have to join the Anti-Joki cult? It's only natural he'd post when fellow Joki haters have gathered to attempt and fail at social undermining someone who hasn't posted in a year. It's fine tho I can take it, as I need not cling to the similar opinions of others to feel better about my own points like this nifty group.
tl;dr I was gonna add spoiler tags somewhere, but screw it my post isn't even that long
