Le GMO

Trollasaur

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What do you think about GMOs?

Do you think they were created in order to kill us off?

Or

Do you believe that they were designed to make things more affordable?
 

Uchiha Legacy

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I assume you are talking about food.

Probably both TBH.
 

markdabomb22

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To kill us off......it holds the same purpose as modern music.......
 

YowYan

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What does gmo stand for.

Genetically modified organism.

And the purpose is not to kill us off, but to shorten our lifespan. Also to break down people's immune system so they can profit off our hospital and pharmacy visits.
 

Darthlawsuit

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Neither.... They were designed so a company could claim a patent on it and not have to compete with other companies over seed sales. Any benefits or negatives are a side effect of this.
 

Souji

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Genetically modified organism.

And the purpose is not to kill us off, but to shorten our lifespan. Also to break down people's immune system so they can profit off our hospital and pharmacy visits.

-sigh-

Where is your basis? Provide specific examples and articles.
 

Aim64C

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What do you think about GMOs?

Do you think they were created in order to kill us off?

Or

Do you believe that they were designed to make things more affordable?

There's generally no civil discussion to be had about this concept, to be honest.

The people that actually know what they are talking about with regards to cellular biology and genetics know that GMOs are the natural progression of scientific advancement. It's no different, in that regard, from nuclear power, solar power, meta-materials, the internet, etc.

GMOs are a product meant to fill a marketable, functional purpose. Generally - that is to improve crop yields by improving resistance to herbicides and to include natural expressions of pesticides.

Those with 'headline knowledge' of the subject, and don't know what they are talking about, will maintain that GMOs are nothing but harmful and even go so far as to suggest they are some kind of conspiracy.

To date - not one study has shown genetically modified crops to represent a risk to human health.

To contrast that - multiple studies have shown soda intake to come with a very large set of detrimental health effects.

No intelligent person aware of biology and genetics is going to argue that genetic engineering poses no risks - but those risks are no greater than those posed by standard selective breeding. Most of the plants in our gardens are toxic enough to kill us, and a simple mutation to alter expression of where those toxins are produced (such as the copying of Amylase enzyme encoding to include expression in salivary glands ... not all humans have the gene for salivary amylase, but we all generally have pancreatic expression of amylase) - could end up with several crops becoming highly toxic.

In fact - Potatoes are monitored for specifically this reason. As a member of the nightshade family, potatoes have lethal concentrations of alkaloids in almost any chlorophyll-containing tissue. This is why you do not eat green potatoes; they can and will kill you. The fruits of the potato plant are, also, lethal.

Only in parts of the root are the concentrations manageable. Even so - the risk is high enough that crops are monitored yearly for changes in the levels of these alkaloids within harvested potatoes.

But, like I said - I'll be called an industry shill, or something, by the people who don't know what they are talking about but like to think they do. And, of course, they will assert that they do know what they are talking about.

In the end - you have to decide which side has the superior evidence and/or most firm footing for their argument (or just which one you want to believe - which is how most people go about it).
 

Souji

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There's generally no civil discussion to be had about this concept, to be honest.

The people that actually know what they are talking about with regards to cellular biology and genetics know that GMOs are the natural progression of scientific advancement. It's no different, in that regard, from nuclear power, solar power, meta-materials, the internet, etc.

GMOs are a product meant to fill a marketable, functional purpose. Generally - that is to improve crop yields by improving resistance to herbicides and to include natural expressions of pesticides.

Those with 'headline knowledge' of the subject, and don't know what they are talking about, will maintain that GMOs are nothing but harmful and even go so far as to suggest they are some kind of conspiracy.

To date - not one study has shown genetically modified crops to represent a risk to human health.

To contrast that - multiple studies have shown soda intake to come with a very large set of detrimental health effects.

No intelligent person aware of biology and genetics is going to argue that genetic engineering poses no risks - but those risks are no greater than those posed by standard selective breeding. Most of the plants in our gardens are toxic enough to kill us, and a simple mutation to alter expression of where those toxins are produced (such as the copying of Amylase enzyme encoding to include expression in salivary glands ... not all humans have the gene for salivary amylase, but we all generally have pancreatic expression of amylase) - could end up with several crops becoming highly toxic.

In fact - Potatoes are monitored for specifically this reason. As a member of the nightshade family, potatoes have lethal concentrations of alkaloids in almost any chlorophyll-containing tissue. This is why you do not eat green potatoes; they can and will kill you. The fruits of the potato plant are, also, lethal.

Only in parts of the root are the concentrations manageable. Even so - the risk is high enough that crops are monitored yearly for changes in the levels of these alkaloids within harvested potatoes.

But, like I said - I'll be called an industry shill, or something, by the people who don't know what they are talking about but like to think they do. And, of course, they will assert that they do know what they are talking about.

In the end - you have to decide which side has the superior evidence and/or most firm footing for their argument (or just which one you want to believe - which is how most people go about it).

Another good example, Aim- Bananas. The bananas our parents and grandparents ate are all but extinct. A new species (or subspecies branch, depending on one's interpretation), through selective breeding and genetic manipulation, has created a new strain of Banana that is more resistant to certain plant diseases and predators, while producing better fruits. Most all bananas have originated from this new source; whether they're organic or not. The details are a little hazy, but I read this in a Popular Science article a few years ago, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was adapted by farmers.

Selective breeding in itself is a form of Genetic Engineering. Of course we're going to want the best meats and veggies...
 

YowYan

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-sigh-

Where is your basis? Provide specific examples and articles.

I know this to be a fact. There are plenty of sources out there, go do your homework and you'll know.
I'm scrolling over 30+ articles about GMO's as I type this, so it isn't that hard to find.


Most developed nations do not consider GMOs to be safe. In more than 60 countries around the world, including Australia, Japan, and all of the countries in the European Union, there are significant restrictions or outright bans on the production and sale of GMOs. In the U.S., the government has approved GMOs based on studies conducted by the same corporations that created them and profit from their sale. Increasingly, Americans are taking matters into their own hands and choosing to opt out of the GMO experiment.

Rather *sigh* over yourself being oblivious on the matter

You must be registered for see images
 
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Funky Tiger

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they are yet another way for companies to reap huge profits. seriously, i don't think there are commercially viable gmo's in existence right now. they are just some old artificially selected crops/animals which are tweaked microscopically (even by genetic standards) and are advertized as modern and revolutionary. there are genuine gmo's available but most of them are still in r&d or are not economically feasible. i mean, look at the synthetic meat. its actually a huge improvement in food technology and for humanity as a whole, but its cost is still monumental. these would be more feasible options in the not-so-distant future, but not in the present times.
 

Aim64C

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I know this to be a fact. There are plenty of sources out there, go do your homework and you'll know.
I'm scrolling over 30+ articles about GMO's as I type this, so it isn't that hard to find.


Most developed nations do not consider GMOs to be safe. In more than 60 countries around the world, including Australia, Japan, and all of the countries in the European Union, there are significant restrictions or outright bans on the production and sale of GMOs. In the U.S., the government has approved GMOs based on studies conducted by the same corporations that created them and profit from their sale. Increasingly, Americans are taking matters into their own hands and choosing to opt out of the GMO experiment.

Rather *sigh* over yourself being oblivious on the matter

Again, Yow - people who know what they are talking about know otherwise.

There is no shortage of -articles- regarding "the risks of GMOs" - you're quite versed on the headlines regarding the issue.

The problem is the actual research. Most of those articles cite one study done a few years ago which has since been illustrated horribly flawed (more on that later). The others all cite conferences where panels of scientists have been brainstorming -possible- risk scenarios and then commissioning studies into the likelihood of those scenarios playing out in practice (with none of those studies returning to show those risks to be likely or unmanageable).

They are inflammatory, biased articles written by marketers.

Now, for those who like to stand by the infamous "rats got tumors" study:



"First of all, the press was manipulated into reporting the study uncritically when it was released. In exchange for an advance copy of the report, media was required to sign a confidentiality agreement that (according to the radio program On The Media) prohibited any publication until the middle of the press conference. This prevented reporters from checking the results with other scientists. The BBC, according to On The Media, refused to sign the agreement.

Although criticism arose soon after the media reports emerged, many people will find the original articles and not see later ones questioning the study. This ensures that the study will have a life of its own, regardless of flaws reported later."




"One immediate problem, Newell-McGloughlin said, is that the line of rodents used in the study, known as Sprague-Dawley rats, are frequently used in cancer research because a large majority of them naturally develop tumors at a high rate, regardless of what they eat or how they're raised.

What's more, the rats were allowed to eat an unlimited amount of food, which increases their chances of developing tumors. And two is a very old age for these rats, which could account for the large rate of cancer seen across all groups, including the controls.

The small size of the control group also raised red flags. Even experienced scientists in the field had trouble interpreting data in the study, as seen in comments collected by the UK's Science Media Center, but it appears that the study included just 10 or 20 control animals.

That means there were at least nine times more test animals than control animals. If anything, studies of this kind usually include two or three times more controls than experimental animals."


They even have a few words for you in this one, Yow:

"Despite the large number of severe criticisms that have been launched at the new study, it is likely to cause lasting damage to the reputation of GM foods, especially among people who read only headlines.

"Unfortunately, the visual of these rats and the pervasiveness of the stories will most probably have a negative effect, especially since they are spreading through the net without context or fact-filters," Newell-McGloughlin said. "You can only hope that people will take the time to check out the facts behind the images. However, for many, a picture paints a thousand words, and that is as deep as they will go.""


As for the overall effectiveness of GMOs... that one is difficult to say - although:



"The researchers estimate that farmers in Iowa, Illinois, Minnesota, Nebraska and Wisconsin received cumulative economic benefits of nearly $7 billion between 1996-2009, with benefits of more than $4 billion for non-Bt corn farmers alone. The scientists estimated that in Minnesota, Illinois and Wisconsin, borer populations in adjacent non-Bt fields declined by 28 to 73 percent, with similar reductions recorded in Iowa and Nebraska."

Now - the methods of the study were rather simplistic and cannot be used to determine cause. However, it does indicate that there is a potential advantage (though care will have to be taken to prevent large concentrations of bt-resistant populations).

Though I have seen other studies that indicate there is little cost/effect benefit to farmers in the U.S. (though these were based around localized experiments that did not attempt to control or introduce pest populations into the study) - which may very well be the case. The U.S. has been consistently farming for many years and has been using pesticides for many years to keep populations manageable.

However - that's not the case in the rest of the world, where attempts at large scale farming have resulted in flash-overs of parasitic populations that wipe out massive portions of the crop (over half).

In those areas - crops that express BT and other forms of pesticides that are not harmful to mammals will have a major cost/effect advantage (being able to cycle the expressed pesticide to prevent the establishment of populations resistant to one variety or another would be ideal). Which means most of the world's population - as most of the world's population cannot reliably treat their crops against pests.

So, go ahead Yow.

I challenge you to find a legitimate study, that I will not slaughter within ten minutes of opening the published work, with strong indications that any GMO on the market presents a significant risk to human health.

I'd recommend quality over quantity - but that's up to you.
 

YowYan

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Again, Yow - people who know what they are talking about know otherwise.

There is no shortage of -articles- regarding "the risks of GMOs" - you're quite versed on the headlines regarding the issue.

The problem is the actual research. Most of those articles cite one study done a few years ago which has since been illustrated horribly flawed (more on that later). The others all cite conferences where panels of scientists have been brainstorming -possible- risk scenarios and then commissioning studies into the likelihood of those scenarios playing out in practice (with none of those studies returning to show those risks to be likely or unmanageable).

They are inflammatory, biased articles written by marketers.

Now, for those who like to stand by the infamous "rats got tumors" study:



"First of all, the press was manipulated into reporting the study uncritically when it was released. In exchange for an advance copy of the report, media was required to sign a confidentiality agreement that (according to the radio program On The Media) prohibited any publication until the middle of the press conference. This prevented reporters from checking the results with other scientists. The BBC, according to On The Media, refused to sign the agreement.

Although criticism arose soon after the media reports emerged, many people will find the original articles and not see later ones questioning the study. This ensures that the study will have a life of its own, regardless of flaws reported later."




"One immediate problem, Newell-McGloughlin said, is that the line of rodents used in the study, known as Sprague-Dawley rats, are frequently used in cancer research because a large majority of them naturally develop tumors at a high rate, regardless of what they eat or how they're raised.

What's more, the rats were allowed to eat an unlimited amount of food, which increases their chances of developing tumors. And two is a very old age for these rats, which could account for the large rate of cancer seen across all groups, including the controls.

The small size of the control group also raised red flags. Even experienced scientists in the field had trouble interpreting data in the study, as seen in comments collected by the UK's Science Media Center, but it appears that the study included just 10 or 20 control animals.

That means there were at least nine times more test animals than control animals. If anything, studies of this kind usually include two or three times more controls than experimental animals."


They even have a few words for you in this one, Yow:

"Despite the large number of severe criticisms that have been launched at the new study, it is likely to cause lasting damage to the reputation of GM foods, especially among people who read only headlines.

"Unfortunately, the visual of these rats and the pervasiveness of the stories will most probably have a negative effect, especially since they are spreading through the net without context or fact-filters," Newell-McGloughlin said. "You can only hope that people will take the time to check out the facts behind the images. However, for many, a picture paints a thousand words, and that is as deep as they will go.""


As for the overall effectiveness of GMOs... that one is difficult to say - although:



"The researchers estimate that farmers in Iowa, Illinois, Minnesota, Nebraska and Wisconsin received cumulative economic benefits of nearly $7 billion between 1996-2009, with benefits of more than $4 billion for non-Bt corn farmers alone. The scientists estimated that in Minnesota, Illinois and Wisconsin, borer populations in adjacent non-Bt fields declined by 28 to 73 percent, with similar reductions recorded in Iowa and Nebraska."

Now - the methods of the study were rather simplistic and cannot be used to determine cause. However, it does indicate that there is a potential advantage (though care will have to be taken to prevent large concentrations of bt-resistant populations).

Though I have seen other studies that indicate there is little cost/effect benefit to farmers in the U.S. (though these were based around localized experiments that did not attempt to control or introduce pest populations into the study) - which may very well be the case. The U.S. has been consistently farming for many years and has been using pesticides for many years to keep populations manageable.

However - that's not the case in the rest of the world, where attempts at large scale farming have resulted in flash-overs of parasitic populations that wipe out massive portions of the crop (over half).

In those areas - crops that express BT and other forms of pesticides that are not harmful to mammals will have a major cost/effect advantage (being able to cycle the expressed pesticide to prevent the establishment of populations resistant to one variety or another would be ideal). Which means most of the world's population - as most of the world's population cannot reliably treat their crops against pests.

So, go ahead Yow.

I challenge you to find a legitimate study, that I will not slaughter within ten minutes of opening the published work, with strong indications that any GMO on the market presents a significant risk to human health.

I'd recommend quality over quantity - but that's up to you.

Oh, I don't think I'm versed on the headlines although I present those pretty often on here as I don't like to milk out my posts. I studied GMO related articles and researches thoroughly about a year ago. I don't recall a lot of the sources and legitimate scientific results, so I usually don't bother myself trying to convince people on here.

It should set off an alarm when biotech giants get free pass over the assimilation of small-scale organic farms, the choice to keep the masses unaware of the fact they're consuming their products, and the power to create media blackouts whenever it gets too hot under their feet.
(example)

I know this isn't based on factual evidence as it rather points out to the bigger picture. Then again, like I said, I'm not here to convince anyone.
 
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