Masked man
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How can you say it's the most anticipated thread of 2013 if we are in the half of year?..
Zexion ( Kakuzu ) vs Forbidden Technique ( kisame ) MOST ANTICIPATED MATCH OF 2013!!!
- Thread starter Prince Charles
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Prince Charles
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lame... have a seat------> _/
Prince Charles
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Regrading who posts first the 2 debaters asked me to choose a number from 1-10
FT chose 7
Zexion chose 8
from 1-10 i chose the number 4. So FT is the closest. FT that was a bch move choosing 7 lol
FT chose 7
Zexion chose 8
from 1-10 i chose the number 4. So FT is the closest. FT that was a bch move choosing 7 lol
Forbidden Technique
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Lmao, no one told Zexion to choose 8.. And I ain't eeeen tryna go first.
Good luck Zex.
deidara senpai
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Weather it is the most or not, just go with it
deidara senpai
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looking forward to it =D
Zexion~
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Kakuzu
I Will start off My opener with a point that is extremely important to this match
Kakuzu can indeed survive without oxygen..What does this mean? This means that Kakuzu can be underwater whether it be Water dome or not, for as long as he wants without the fear of drowning. Proof?
Kakuzu's main jutsu is a kinjutsu by the name of Earth Grundge Fear now as we all know Kinjutsu's are Techniques that violate the laws of nature (literal definition) Kakuzu's replaces his full body structure with that of threads, Meaning he survives without the effect of a lot of important organs the lungs being one of them.
As you can see here, His body is completely thread, Not many organs shown there.
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To further back my point Kakuzu has already shown he can survive without an air supply
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notice how all the threads are extruding from his neck/throat area, by all logic Kakuzu's air supply should of been cut off, but obviously he was still able to continue fighting, which means.....He needs no air (also explains that suffocating mask)Now i want to list the order in which Kakuzu's hearts will be expended if he suffers any fatal blows in accommodation to this match U_U
First would go the raiton
Then the Fuuton
Then Katon
Then Doton
With that being said i'll now go over why or why not these separate elements will be useful leading up to how Kakuzu wins this
Raiton
This one is not going to be much help to Kakuzu, unless a certain situation arrives where it can be used its not doing much.
Samehada absorbs it easily as its a straight forward attack, and when Kisame merges the little hope it has of doing damage is over U_U As it would be absorbed upon contact...However there is one way in which this jutsu can be affected, Kakuzu is able to fire off more than one Lightning bolt at the target at the same time which is evident in the DB entry
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unlike Killer Bee Kakuzu is intelligent enough to take advantage of this opportunity, by removing Samehada from Kisame's grasp via threads, and then removing Kisame's heart..Fuuton
This one as well is not all that helpful, the only purpose it could serve is that of a sort of ..counter to water dome.
The name of Kakuzu's Wind Style is Pressure Damage it is a unique wind style that instead of focusing on slicing and blowing back the opponent, it Applies great pressure to whoever is caught within the blast, crushing them. Now what would happen if this intense pressure was applied to Kisame's water dome? The water would disperse negating the giant water prison. Their size and range are similar
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Water dome may be a little bit larger but nonetheless whatever part of the dome is caught in the blast will mostl ikely disperse although Kisame would remain un harmed if merged, its an effective counter for WD. It also plays one more role, which i'll go into laterKaton
Now, most of you are probably going "Katon? What's that going to do against a suiton user?" Well your all idiots.
Again Kakuzu has quite a unique Katon in his arsenal as well. Its called (i watch english dub) Searing Migraine, or some refer to it as intelligent hard work. It is a katon that launches a small fireball which erupts into a huge flame once it makes contact with something solid Here's the DB entry
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Now why would this be useful? Its because Kakuzu could use this in a strategic way (which would suit him as he is an analytic and strategic fighter) this way would be before Kisame uses a suiton kakuzu would fire his Katon at the ground near Kisame, since we all know Samehada hates absorbing flame i doubt its going to try and absorb what looks like such a puny Katon, however when it erupts ..From such a close distance Kisame will undoubtedly be unable to absorb such a huge eruption from such close range
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meaning he would be burnt to a crisp...again yes he could heal from this but again, removal of Samehada via threads + Heart removal ends him. This also plays a major role if it ever comes time when Kakuzu is underwater.As we all know when the fire and wind hearts combine it creates a flame capable of evaporating water in an instant
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Since the hearts can fly, and the Water domes weakness is that it can't prevent multiple targets from escaping, They would easily be able to escape the water dome, in fact i doubt they would ever be caught in it, regardless once on the outside the wind+fire combo could simply fire this jutsu multiple times at the water dome evaporating portions of it each time the jutsu is fired..Although even one would grant Kakuzu a big enough opening for escape its size is best illustrated here
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Doton
Now what most people neglect to realize in this match is that Kakuzu's best defense is a doton technique, while Kisame's strongest offensive Jutsu are Suiton's ..Which means Kakuzu has the elemental advantage, Basically Domu tanks, Normal Shark Bullets, and Kisame's hungry sharks due to One) it being a suiton 2) It being a jutsu that tears and rips your opponent, which Domu fully nullifies, however GSB May absorb domu before it can administer its elemental superiority, Kakuzu has other way's to deal with it ..which i'll note once your bing it up
Basic offensive strategy
Due to Kisame's great Chakra absorbing abilities the main offense in this fight would have to be Kakuzu's threads, First off Kisame has already shown that if taken By surprised Samehada can be removed quite easily, Even though he had intel on Kakuzu enough to know he was immortal i doubt he knew he was a complete ragdoll so the threads would take him by surprise. Kakuzu has many ways to remove the the blade however the one he would try first is most likely by using his threads to extend his hand and grab the blade out of Kisame's grasp
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. His threads were able to restrain a most likely heavier weapon
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look at top image threads holding it to the right of the image Kakuzu could extend his fist as to look like he would be aiming for a punch to Kisame, however once Kisame blocks or avoids it the threads would split off and grasp the blade and remove it, Once down Kakuzu obviously has the advantage here once the sword is gone, the threads from his other hand can begin ripping into Kisame's chest removing the heart..
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, this is just a basic way..Their are other ways in which Kakuzu can win this match, better ways as well..I'll bring them up once you implement certain moves on Kisame's part
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Forbidden Technique
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Nice effort in trying to eliminate the possibility of Kakuzu drowning, but not good enough. Kakuzu does in fact require oxygen to survive, and i'll prove to you why.
If we take into consideration what exactly keeps the "immortal" Kakuzu alive, it is his living hearts. The heart is a muscle/organ that needs oxygen to operate and thus circulates oxygen throughout the body. The way this works is, oxygen is intake by any means and attaches to red blood cells (found in blood) which is pumped through the heart then throughout the entire body. In Kakuzu's case, it might not work exactly like that of a human body, but what is certain is that blood is being pumped within his hearts
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Which indicates that his hearts require oxygen to operate and keep alive; Oxygen that he will be deprived of underwater. Thus, Kakuzu can not survive without oxygen.
Assuming Kisame only goes after Kakuzu each time; which doesn't make much sense for Kisame to do after seeing how Kakuzu immortality works. What stops Kisame from aiming to destroy the masks in any order that he chooses?
There are a lot of things here in Kisames case you are not taking into consideration, but i'll counter this as it is and save everything else for the offensive portion of my rebuttal.
It seems you're forgetting the way Samehada absorbs chakra by stating "whichever lightning bolt Samehada neglects". Samehada wouldn't neglect a single lightning bolt, as the way it absorbs chakra is threw the vicinity of it's chakra absorption range. As you can see
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Samehada didn't neglect one of Bee's raiton blades, but absorbed both of them when they reached within it's absorption range. The same principle can be applied to Kakuzu's lightning bolts. While, I understand that Kakuzu's raiton bolts contain more chakra then Bee's raiton infused blades, keep in mind Samehada is able to absorb 6 tails worth of bijuu chakra at a given time. That is still a considerably large amount of chakra. Now, will Samehada be able to absorb the entirety of Kakuzu's raiton bolts? The answer is uncertain. However, even if it can't, what is certain; is that the raiton will be significantly weaker before hitting Kisame. Thus, it will surely lose it's penetrative force in front of Kisame's durable body and only cause minimal damage. Such minimal damage that I don't believe it will put Kisame in such a defenseless state as he was in when hit by Bee's V2 lariat. Also, if there was ever an instant that Kisame was in risk of losing contact with Samehada, he can simply partially merge with it [
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] Something that shouldn't catch Kisame off guard while facing only one opponent, opposed to four when Samehada was taken away from him. You never specified whether the fuuton mask is within the WD or outside it. So i'll address both.
Outside the WD, I don't believe this fuuton will cause the WD to disperse. Simply because it'll only push away the dome seeing as that's what it did to the hollow tree's [
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]Inside the WD, I will admit this may be a viable counter as the tremendous force caused by this fuuton technique might break Kisames control in holding it together causing the dome to burst. However, like before with the raiton, you're not taking into consideration Kisames counters. Inside the WD, Kisame is capable of swiftly dealing with Kakuzu and the masks. Something I will get into in my offensive portion.
Honestly, your assumption that Kisame would opt in facing Kakuzu as well as his 4 masks without creating his own water source is laughable. It makes absolutely no sense, especially when we consider Kisames fighting style. But anyways;
The accusation that Samehada wouldn't absorb the katon before erupting because it doesn't like absorbing katon is false. Why wouldn't Samehada absorb it? It did it
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against Itachi's grand fireball despite not liking it. Kakuzu's katon really isn't a factor here and considering this weak points concerning it; I don't see why you think it is. Kakuzu's katon is simply countered by chakra absorption (as I stated above), Kisame's large scale suiton, or simply avoided by going underground [
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] I don't believe addressing this technique with a well detailed counter is even necessary as it's nothing threatening to Kisame.The masks "easily" escaping the WD; I will address later in my rebuttal. In response to the Wind+Fire mask evaporating portions of the Dome: They could, however that will only be wasting chakra. Something that is vital in using wisely while facing Kisame. As we can clearly see how much water Kisame is able to expel out of his mouth in such a short amount of time [
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] with only 30% of his original amount of chakra, Kakuzu trying to evaporate the WD is futile. In addition, Kakuzu's masks haven't been shown to fire in a quick succession anyways. Granted, Doton Domo can tank Kisames sharks aside from GSB.
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Your whole strategy has just been debunked. Kakuzu's tendrils are manipulated by chakra. Thus, Samehada will simply absorb said chakra causing Kakuku's tendril manipulation to be nullified, which eliminates any possibility of kakuzu removing Samehada from Kisames grasps.
The offensive
Close Quarter Combat
To start things off, I'd like to bring to everyone reading this' attention that Kisame has a slight edge over Kakuzu in CQC according the DB scores. That being, while Kisame and Kakuzu share the same speed score, Kisame has a 4.5 in taijutsu while Kakuzu has a 4. I understand that this isn't much of a difference, but while taking into consideration that Kakuzu's chakra manipulated tendrils and Doton Domo will be non-effective, Kisame has a clear advantage in this particular area. With all this being said, it won't be hard for Kisame to overwhelm Kakuzu in CQC where he is liable to get shredded by Samehada.
It's not until the fight progresses and Kakuzu realizes that he cannot defeat Kisame in CQC that he will opt to releasing his masks. Kisame, after quickly realizing he is outnumbered will most likely utilize his Mizu Bunshins which he has seen to use last time he was outnumbered [
Suiton: Bakusui Shōha
With the Suiton: Bakusui Shōha into play, Kisame has a huge advantage as his speed greatly increases, easier access to suiton techniques, as well provides him shelter from Kakuzu's masks. Like before, Kisame can simply implement Mizu Bunshins to aid him in taking Kakuzu and all his masks down by firing countless Shark bombs from many different directions to knock the masks out of the sky. Meanwhile, Kisame can fuse with Samehada to blitz Kakuzu. I shouldn't have to mention Kisames speed while fused with Samehada, so Kakuzu avoiding Kisame even on the surface, is unlikely. Once Kisamehada gets a hold of Kakuzu the fight is nearly over; as Kakuzu will be defenseless as all his chakra will be drained, meaning no tendril manipulation, drowning, as well as Kisamehadas ability to grow spikes [
Kakuzu's raiton won't save him here, as it will practically only do harm to Kakuzu himself. Seeing as the way lightning transmits over water [
The rate of which Kisamehada can absorb chakra is often very overlooked. In fact, the amount and time it takes Kisamehada to absorb chakra is obviously superior to that of Samehada alone, but more or less comparable to that of Preta Paths.
Preta Path
Kisamehada
Take note; it took roughly around the same amount of time for both Kisamehada and Preta Path to remove Bee's V2 chakra.
While it can be argued that Kisamehada didn't absorb as much as Preta Path in that given amount of time, due to the fact that Bee still had his chakra cloak; Just understand that while Preta Path completely caught Bee by
Despite Bee's efforts of trying to not allow his chakra to be drained, Kisamehada was still able to not only completely absorb Bee's V2 state, but he also managed to absorb Bee's chakra cloak as well as the partial Hachibi transformation [
Thus, the end result remained the same. A lifeless Bee; and a chakra-less Bijuu
Suiton: Dai Bakusui Shōha
The Suiton: Dai Bakusui Shōha, also known by the Water Dome, surely spells out Kakuzu's defeat. Seeing as Kakuzu will be deprived of oxygen which he can survive without; and without no way of getting himself out he is done for. Now, whether Kakuzu's masks gets captured within the WD or not is not a sure thing, so i'll address both scenarios.
If the Water Dome does in fact swallow up Kakuzu along with his masks given it's enormous size and speed it travels (as fast as Kisamehada can swim) then they will be taken out without the possibility of escaping. Kisame while fused Samehada gains sensory abilities [
"
It is a common misconception that while Kisame is fused with Samehada ( "Kisamehada" ) they cannot use ninjutsu. This is untrue. In fact, Kisamehada has already been shown to use ninjutsu while in this form.
This proves that Kisamehada is able to emit chakra to not only hold the massive Water Dome together, but to keep it moving in any direction he swims. Thus, proving that using ninjutsu in this form is not out of Kisames reach. Now that I have proved Kisamehada is able to perform 1/2 of what is required to use ninjutsu; all there is left is the performance of hand signs.
Many may argue that it is impossible for Kisamehada to use ninjutsu because he isn't able to perform the required hand signs due to his webbed hands. Though this is most likely true; fortunately for Kisame, most of his suiton techniques only require a single hand seal.
-Daikodan requires a single hand clap [
-Suiton: Bakusui Shōha requires a clap of his hands [
-Suiton: Dai Bakusui Shōha requires a single hand seal[
-Kuchiyose No Jutsu only requires a blood sample and a thrust of his hand
[
-Suiton: Goshokuzame only requires a hand clap and a thrust of his hand
[
With that being said, techniques such as smaller scale GSB [
If the Masks are able to fly out of the range of WD while it's be formed, it will still not change the outcome of the fight. As I already previously established that fuuton mask will only push the Dome back, the fuuton+fire will evaporate some of the water, but Kisame can simply produce more water, and the raiton mask will only hurt Kakuzu. This means Kakuzu will only fall prey to Kisamehada in the WD, resulting in the masks most likely having to enter the Dome as they seem to automatically come to Kakuzu's aid when his heart has been destroyed [
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Close Quarter Combat
To start things off, I'd like to bring to everyone reading this' attention that Kisame has a slight edge over Kakuzu in CQC according the DB scores. That being, while Kisame and Kakuzu share the same speed score, Kisame has a 4.5 in taijutsu while Kakuzu has a 4. I understand that this isn't much of a difference, but while taking into consideration that Kakuzu's chakra manipulated tendrils and Doton Domo will be non-effective, Kisame has a clear advantage in this particular area. With all this being said, it won't be hard for Kisame to overwhelm Kakuzu in CQC where he is liable to get shredded by Samehada.
It's not until the fight progresses and Kakuzu realizes that he cannot defeat Kisame in CQC that he will opt to releasing his masks. Kisame, after quickly realizing he is outnumbered will most likely utilize his Mizu Bunshins which he has seen to use last time he was outnumbered [
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] Mizu Bunshins wielding Samehada that are completely endowed with both Kisames and Samehadas abilities
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. Kisame can then use
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in unison with the Mizu bunshins for a underground assault. Not only will this allow Kisame to avoid all of Kakuzu's hearts, but it will surely overwhelm Kakuzu with numbers when serviced and striking him with multiple Samehada copies. Not to mention, this will surely allow Kisame the chance to use his
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without the possibility of getting blown away via the fuuton mask. Suiton: Bakusui Shōha
With the Suiton: Bakusui Shōha into play, Kisame has a huge advantage as his speed greatly increases, easier access to suiton techniques, as well provides him shelter from Kakuzu's masks. Like before, Kisame can simply implement Mizu Bunshins to aid him in taking Kakuzu and all his masks down by firing countless Shark bombs from many different directions to knock the masks out of the sky. Meanwhile, Kisame can fuse with Samehada to blitz Kakuzu. I shouldn't have to mention Kisames speed while fused with Samehada, so Kakuzu avoiding Kisame even on the surface, is unlikely. Once Kisamehada gets a hold of Kakuzu the fight is nearly over; as Kakuzu will be defenseless as all his chakra will be drained, meaning no tendril manipulation, drowning, as well as Kisamehadas ability to grow spikes [
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] to impale Kakuzu threw the heart.Kakuzu's raiton won't save him here, as it will practically only do harm to Kakuzu himself. Seeing as the way lightning transmits over water [
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]-[
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] it will easily be absorbed by Kisamehada given it's absorption capabilitiesPreta Path
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Kisamehada
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Take note; it took roughly around the same amount of time for both Kisamehada and Preta Path to remove Bee's V2 chakra.
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While it can be argued that Kisamehada didn't absorb as much as Preta Path in that given amount of time, due to the fact that Bee still had his chakra cloak; Just understand that while Preta Path completely caught Bee by
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, while Bee was being resistant and fighting Kisamehada back by partially transforming into the Hachibi [
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] Thus, pumping in more chakra which resulted in prolonging the process in which Kisamehada completely absorbing the Hachibi's chakra. Despite Bee's efforts of trying to not allow his chakra to be drained, Kisamehada was still able to not only completely absorb Bee's V2 state, but he also managed to absorb Bee's chakra cloak as well as the partial Hachibi transformation [
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] Far exceeding Samehada limitations of 6 tails worth of bijuu chakra. Thus, the end result remained the same. A lifeless Bee; and a chakra-less Bijuu
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Suiton: Dai Bakusui Shōha
The Suiton: Dai Bakusui Shōha, also known by the Water Dome, surely spells out Kakuzu's defeat. Seeing as Kakuzu will be deprived of oxygen which he can survive without; and without no way of getting himself out he is done for. Now, whether Kakuzu's masks gets captured within the WD or not is not a sure thing, so i'll address both scenarios.
If the Water Dome does in fact swallow up Kakuzu along with his masks given it's enormous size and speed it travels (as fast as Kisamehada can swim) then they will be taken out without the possibility of escaping. Kisame while fused Samehada gains sensory abilities [
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] which means Kisame will know exactly how many hearts are within his WD and their exact locations. Kisamehada can then easily take them out with his suiton techniques.
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"
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"It is a common misconception that while Kisame is fused with Samehada ( "Kisamehada" ) they cannot use ninjutsu. This is untrue. In fact, Kisamehada has already been shown to use ninjutsu while in this form.
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is ninjutsu that Kisamehada uses to enable the Water Dome to move in the direction that Kisamehada is swimming, with Kisamehada being the the centerpiece.
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This proves that Kisamehada is able to emit chakra to not only hold the massive Water Dome together, but to keep it moving in any direction he swims. Thus, proving that using ninjutsu in this form is not out of Kisames reach. Now that I have proved Kisamehada is able to perform 1/2 of what is required to use ninjutsu; all there is left is the performance of hand signs.
Many may argue that it is impossible for Kisamehada to use ninjutsu because he isn't able to perform the required hand signs due to his webbed hands. Though this is most likely true; fortunately for Kisame, most of his suiton techniques only require a single hand seal.
-Daikodan requires a single hand clap [
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]-Suiton: Bakusui Shōha requires a clap of his hands [
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]-Suiton: Dai Bakusui Shōha requires a single hand seal[
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]-Kuchiyose No Jutsu only requires a blood sample and a thrust of his hand
[
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]-[
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]-Suiton: Goshokuzame only requires a hand clap and a thrust of his hand
[
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]-[
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]With that being said, techniques such as smaller scale GSB [
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], 5 Feeding Sharks [
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]-[
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], or Shark summons [
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]-[
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] can be utilized within the WD to take Kakuzu as well as his masks. If the Masks are able to fly out of the range of WD while it's be formed, it will still not change the outcome of the fight. As I already previously established that fuuton mask will only push the Dome back, the fuuton+fire will evaporate some of the water, but Kisame can simply produce more water, and the raiton mask will only hurt Kakuzu. This means Kakuzu will only fall prey to Kisamehada in the WD, resulting in the masks most likely having to enter the Dome as they seem to automatically come to Kakuzu's aid when his heart has been destroyed [
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] ultimately resulting in defeat.
Prince Charles
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LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO holy shit Forbidden tech got turnt up. Zexion your done bro lol
Zexion~
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Not even i've already got counters ready for half of these ...post will be up in a sec
deidara senpai
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this is getting veeeeery heated i like it lets go!!
Zexion~
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First off you completely ignored my point on Kakuzu already cutting off his air supply? So how exactly is it done if he needs oxygen. You also sort of neglected a pretty obvious fact that disproves all of this
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The heart creatures Kakuzu uses clearly have neither A) Oxygen or B) Any blood obviously
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(no blood here) Simply a heart and some chakra U_U Which means that the hearts can survive on their own without Oxygen meaning Kakuzu can as well. Also just because someone has blood does not mean they NEED oxygen to survive. Just look at Sasori for example ..
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nothing but wood and a heart, No lungs..no viable way to get oxygen yet blood still circulated (dripping out his mouth) and his veins were obviously still working. No your real world science argument is moot here U_ULol Kisame hitting flying hearts is unlikely, but i suppose if he destroys them individually then yes..he chooses the order
If that's the case and Kisame really does indeed have a absorption field similar to preta path's i suppose...How was that V2 cloak not absorbed when Bee Lariated Kisame? Was it simply because Sameahda was too slow to react? If so then theirs still a problem, as Kakuzu's raiton is incredibly fast. Shikamaru could not even activate a ninja scroll before the bolts hit
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now before you say "Kakashi was able to intercept it so it can't be too fast" He was only able to do so because he was already en route there, he saw through the jutsu with his sharingan and began moving to intercept it before the jutsu was even launched as Kakuzu so observantly states
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The fact that it happened so late in the jutsu gives even more proof on how truly fast it is U_U Another thing If Kisame/Samehada were to some how miraculously, activate this in time that would mean his whole focus would be on this raiton, which would still take time to absorb, similar to how Kakuzu negated it here i suppose
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Which would mean he's wide open to an attack from behind by eithehr the fire or wind heart, Pretty sure...no definitely sure that scan was only showing him exiting the Merged state, U_U No proof he could actually do that, and even if he can Kakuzu's threads are quick enough to grab it and remove it ( yes his threads still work which i'll get to later) Also 4 opponents then..4 opponents here. Kisame still can be caught off guard..easily
Doesn't matter, as you clearly do not understand that scan at all..Where does it show tree's being blown away? It crushed the dead tree's with Pressure and then the debris was blown away by the resulting gust that came with the technique ...(also why Shikamaru and Chouji were thrown back..and they were BEHIND the jutsu)
Lol, no Kakuzu's fuuton is quicker then Kisame dealing with the masks in any manor ..
Not really :| But it doesn't matter, due to the location Even with the Suiton there's going to be a tree near Kisame ...Kakuzu merely fires it at the closest tree, the effect would still be the same
lol you don't get it ..Why would Samehada absorb such a SMALL fire ball that is not even going to hit Kisame? (so it seems) Its hitting the ground next to him...Itachi's fire ball was A)Much larger and B) Directed At Bee... And notice how he did not even absorb all of it? Like it tends to do with any other jutsu, as it hungers For chakra, the fact that it did not GO OUT OF ITS WAY too absorb all of Itachi's fireball basically proves that its not going to go out of its way to absorb something that looks as though its not even going to bother Kisame ...
Lol Kisame's large scale suitons are not being active before The Katon erupts...Immediatly when it hits the surface is it going to erupt.. Going under-ground eh, You posted that in your offensive part as well, i'll crush that thought then
That's not my point..he would then have to convert it with chakra into a dome again, and by that time Kakuzu can easily escape the dome with a giant gaping hole 0.0 And don't worry about Chakra Kakuzu will be just fine, He may not have as much as Kisame but he has a shit load himself
What i thought punk
Lmao nope , "Chakra to manipulate" As in the chakra inside his body, is used to manipulate the threads, Meaning he does not simply input chakra into the threads, as they are connected to his heart's chakra system..a chakra source at all times so that chakra source controls the threads without imputing chakra. Its the same way he control's his hearts, he funnels his chakra into the separate heart and chakra systemand the creature is then able to move around and use Jutsu as the threads the creature is created of are still attached to that heart which has chakra ..If what your saying is true then the threads would of continued to move here
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and since Kisame is not Absorbing Someone's chakra THROUGH an object with Samehada, my argument still stands The offensive
Kakuzu's threads are still available actually, so with the addition of them back into the equation, Kakuzu clearly has the edge in CQC
What is this why are you assuming he will go directly into CQC? laughable as you would say ..
He clearly did not do that once he knew he was going up against Kakashi Hatake
Mizu Bunshin's? That exploit never really actually proved how Samehada would still retain its abilities, and comparing it to Zabuza's is a completely different thing ..as it is a living creature and as we all know..User's of the clone jutsu can not specifically clone someone else...You can clone something and transform it into looking like another creature or weapon
Ahh so your saying Kisame go underground huh well big mistake there as Kakuzu to is capable of moving under ground at fast speeds as well
Umm just so you know Merged Kisame is slow as **** when above water ...So i am assuming that all this is taking place during water dome ...
Already Proved that Kakuzu does not need air again ..Also Once in water Dome Kakuzu would no doubt make up for his lack of speed..with his almost inpenetrable defense..no i am not talking about Domu i am talking about EGF itself, Since Kakuzu can in fact breath underwater, all he needs to do is go into EGF V2 mode
Shark Bullets ..hitting the mask's Come on my man what is that...Such linear and arcing attacks are not touching masks that can fly around perfectly,
Never said it would...
All this is great and all but...i already proved the threads do not require chakra inputted into them...so it really does not matter how much chakra Kisame can absorb and how fast..
How are the masks absolutely taken out? Kakuzu would use the same method as Bee did
Never even thought he could not use jutsu when in that form, nor was i going to argue against it ..
No you were confused on the Wind masks abilities whether on the inside or out, its dispersing the water dome, how can you even make such a claim? as they all go running to Kakuzu? At most one would go to his aid, U_U Although Kakuzu does not need a replacement as he will not die here, iv'e already proven he can survive without oxygen yet again
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Kakuzu's threads are still available actually, so with the addition of them back into the equation, Kakuzu clearly has the edge in CQC
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and Not even mentioning his other forms for nowWhat is this why are you assuming he will go directly into CQC? laughable as you would say ..
He clearly did not do that once he knew he was going up against Kakashi Hatake
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since they each know that the other is part of the Akatsuki he's not starting with it here, although if Kisame wants to recklessly engage him in it go right ahead..With the strength of his threads he is bound to lose but i'll counter your other stuff anyway's Mizu Bunshin's? That exploit never really actually proved how Samehada would still retain its abilities, and comparing it to Zabuza's is a completely different thing ..as it is a living creature and as we all know..User's of the clone jutsu can not specifically clone someone else...You can clone something and transform it into looking like another creature or weapon
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? But no cloning a living entity is not possible, That is most likely what Pain did as a matter of fact..It explains why he did not absorb Chakra once that whole fight..and why the created clones did not carry Samehada, so no Mizu Bunshin clones do not harness Samehada.. Ahh so your saying Kisame go underground huh well big mistake there as Kakuzu to is capable of moving under ground at fast speeds as well
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his hearts as well seeing as their made of threads that can do the same...So while Kisame's suitons are negated under the earth because..you know earth<Suiton ( Or just for the lack of water i suppose) Kakuzu can still fire off Katon's and Raitons especially that will rip through the underground and pierce Kisame unexpectedly, his threads can deal with clones
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Umm just so you know Merged Kisame is slow as **** when above water ...So i am assuming that all this is taking place during water dome ...
Already Proved that Kakuzu does not need air again ..Also Once in water Dome Kakuzu would no doubt make up for his lack of speed..with his almost inpenetrable defense..no i am not talking about Domu i am talking about EGF itself, Since Kakuzu can in fact breath underwater, all he needs to do is go into EGF V2 mode
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which now grants him the ability to attack and defend from all angles and at different times, Kisame may now have the speed advantage but even with that its going to be hard getting by Kakuzu's defense, Note that just one hit from these are tearing right through Kisame as they were able to rip through the ground
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, enough to end him, and since i don't think he can heal when in merged form, ...Even if he can Kakuzu will realize this and then next time simply rip out an organ which Kisame is most certainty NOT healing from with just Chakra, If Kisame does indeed try to launch Jutsu at him Kakuzu still has Domu ....And every other heart for that matter really, all that can erradicate any Suiton at himShark Bullets ..hitting the mask's Come on my man what is that...Such linear and arcing attacks are not touching masks that can fly around perfectly,
Never said it would...
Preta Path
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Kisamehada
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Take note; it took roughly around the same amount of time for both Kisamehada and Preta Path to remove Bee's V2 chakra.
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While it can be argued that Kisamehada didn't absorb as much as Preta Path in that given amount of time, due to the fact that Bee still had his chakra cloak; Just understand that while Preta Path completely caught Bee byYou must be registered for see links, while Bee was being resistant and fighting Kisamehada back by partially transforming into the Hachibi [You must be registered for see links] Thus, pumping in more chakra which resulted in prolonging the process in which Kisamehada completely absorbing the Hachibi's chakra.
Despite Bee's efforts of trying to not allow his chakra to be drained, Kisamehada was still able to not only completely absorb Bee's V2 state, but he also managed to absorb Bee's chakra cloak as well as the partial Hachibi transformation [You must be registered for see links] Far exceeding Samehada limitations of 6 tails worth of bijuu chakra.
Thus, the end result remained the same. A lifeless Bee; and a chakra-less Bijuu
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All this is great and all but...i already proved the threads do not require chakra inputted into them...so it really does not matter how much chakra Kisame can absorb and how fast..
How are the masks absolutely taken out? Kakuzu would use the same method as Bee did
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Which Kisame has no answer for, they all try to escape the dome in different directions and Kisame would no doubt go for Kakuzu..Why? Because he has no clue what the masks are .. He most likely thinks that killing Kakuzu would dispose of them as well..No the masks go free, I already posted what would happen when Kisame and Kakuzu clash under water...Never even thought he could not use jutsu when in that form, nor was i going to argue against it ..
No you were confused on the Wind masks abilities whether on the inside or out, its dispersing the water dome, how can you even make such a claim? as they all go running to Kakuzu? At most one would go to his aid, U_U Although Kakuzu does not need a replacement as he will not die here, iv'e already proven he can survive without oxygen yet again
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Zexion~
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I didn't ignore anything. You're under the impression that I meant Kakuzu breaths threw his lungs, which I didn't state anywhere in my post. I can't prove to you how exactly Kakuzu obtains oxygen, but it's clear he does it. Else how would he keep the hearts "alive" and beating? Unless you're suggesting that these hearts are not in fact operating which would mean they're "dead" which couldn't be the case, else how else would he utilize it's nature affinity? He wouldn't. The hearts must remain alive and operating to maintain these abilities much like Sasori's human puppets [
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] So, I will ask you, how exactly are the hearts being kept alive and operating without the intake of any oxygen (which the heart needs)?And you're using an unconfirmed example, in saying Sasori doesn't need oxygen to remain alive. Never ever confirmed. And actually, the fact that Sasori did in fact bleed after his core was pierced, confirms that he has blood circulating within him (the hearts job) So real world logic is being applied here with the hearts functions, but it doesn't apply with how the heart is kept operating? Kay. Then why didn't Sasori's heart or core continue to function after being pierced? Real world logic applied here also.
Wasn't unlikely for TenTen [
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] And the other fodders [
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]*_*
Kisame made it clear that the V2 cloak was
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. So, yes, that would mean that it would take Samehada a longer time to absorb it in addition to Bee's incredible V2 Bee. Unless you're implying Kakuzu's raiton contains more chakra then Bee's V2 form, I don't see where you're getting at here. And activate what exactly? It doesn't take any time for Kisame and Samehada brace themselves for an upcoming attack nor do they need to "activate" anything to absorb chakra. And Kakuzu would ambush Kisame from behind despite him never showing to do so? I think you're overrating the speed of which his masks can travel. Even so, you so foolishly believe Kisame will stand and watch Kakuzu release his masks and just stand there without doing anything. Kisame obviously would expel his Suiton: Bakusui Shōha or use his Mizu Bunshins at the very least; which'll eliminate any possibility of Kakuzu ambushing Kisame from behind... something that he has never done nor seems capable of doing.
Lmao, huh? No proof he could actually do that... Are you Ray Charles to the manga scans? He did it here as well while merging [
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] So you're saying Kisame can't partially merge with something he can fully merge with? Makes sense. And no his threads will not ( Nope, no, they certainly can not which I'll get to later) Assuming Kisame doesn't create Mizu Bunshins, which you find so far-fetched to occur.
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Where does the DB mention the tree's being crushed? It specifically says the tree's are being knocked down... and how are the tree's being knocked down? By the tremendous blowing force. This is clearly not something that will cause the WD to disperse from the outside.
So Kisame spawning a Shark Bomb beside the masks in slower then the time it'll take Kakuzu to realize what he's in and use his fuuton mask? Okay. Zabuza was able to utilize his Mizu Bunshins [
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] a considerable distance away from his real body [
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] He most likely created it from the water within his mist. So I see no reason why Kisame can not spawn his Shark Bomb at any location within his chakra made water source.Lmao, you're right.. Kisame opting in facing Kakuzu and 4 masks capable of unleashing powerful elemental techniques without utilizing his Mizu Bunshins among other suiton techniques is completely and utterly ridiculous :| C'mon now.
You're losing it.
So because the fireball isn't completely aimed at Kisame, He won't take any precautions despite this being a battle to the death? So Kisame will assume that Kakuzu is firing of a fireball for no apparent reason other then to waist his chakra? Laughable.
Kisame will in fact take any procedure necessary (Chakra absorption, Countering with Suiton, or going underground) to rid him of this threat. Honestly, just cut this crap. This is weak.
That's not how it works. Firing a Katon into water doesn't leave holes in it, lol. It will simply evaporate the water, as in, causing the dome to become smaller. Which is countered by simply adding more water into the dome, as I stated before. And Kisame's chakra is constantly holding it together, so in order for Kakuzu to get out, he would have to make it disperse altogether.
What i thought punk
Tough guy huh? :dunno:
If what you say were to be the case, then explain to me how the masks are able to freely move on their own with the ability to spot their targets. Without Kakuzu manipulating them himself via transmitting his chakra to the threads, this would mean the masks have some type of sensory ability to track down their targets. An ability they obviously do not have seeing Kakuzu doesn't possess it himself. So it is questionable to me which way he manipulates these masks. Either way, Samehada will be able to absorb the chakra. A single swipe completely stopped Naruto from perform his summoning technique [
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]-[
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] So yes, Samehada is able to absorb chakra even if it's not physically present. They're actually not, seeing as you thought Samehada isn't able to absorb chakra that isn't visibly and physically there. As long as chakra is being used, Samehada can absorb it. So nope, Kisame dominates in this field.
Lmao, you mean after Kakashi took out one of his hearts? He didn't use it against his fight with the Izumo and Kotetsu either. Furthermore, this is how fights in Naruto go down; a ninja never shows his strongest techniques unless it's necessary. Kakuzu doesn't opt in releasing his masks until he plans on getting serious and wants to end the battle [
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] Why wouldn't they engage in CQC off the start of the match.I'm going to break this down for you.
- The technique Pain used requires the user's chakra [
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- Only a single body was used to create the Kisame clone [
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- This means that the Samehada clone was made purely out of Kisames chakra that was given to Pain (What is a Mizu Bunshin made of? Kisame's chakra)
- This Samehada clone made purely of Kisames chakra had several of the real Samehadas qualities such as only being loyal and held by Kisame (Samehadas Sensory ability), as well as freely moving on it's own [
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The Samehada clone didn't show any chakra absorption ability as Kisame was fighting Team Gai... a team that doesn't really incorporate any chakra usage. Throughout the fight, no ninjutsu was even used. Despite not getting the chance to showcase it's chakra absorption capability, the clone showed some other Samehada qualities and abilities, which I stated above. This should be more then enough proof that a Mizu Bunshin clone of Samehada is capable of the very same. Also, Samehada was knocked off of Kisame by Gai, when he used the Mizu Bushin. Explaining why they were not on the Mizu Bushin. Here, we see Gai knocking away Samehada, and then Mizu Bushin being created[
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].We then see it returning here AFTER the Mizu Bushin were created [
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]I don't see Kakuzu going underground, but rather just a limb. Just because his narrow and small arm and threads were capable of going underground and travel a considerably fast speed doesn't mean Kakuzu as a whole can accomplish this. Certainly not as fast, anyways. And even if he can, without any sensory abilities, Kakuzu won't be able to see or know of Kisames movements while on the contrary, Kisame will know of Kakuzu's granted by Samehada. Thus, countering Kisames in this area is not very likely, nor is it a good strategy. Funny you didn't post the scan of Kakuzu being feinted by base Naruto a few manga pages after [
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] So what were you saying about Kakuzu dealing with clones? :|You misunderstood me. I didn't mean that Kisamehada will be on the surface on the water; I meant that even Kakuzu being on the surface, he wouldn't be able to outrun Kisamehada swimming below the surface. And no, this is all taken place on the huge lake hence the title.
A simple counter for Earth Grudge Fear V2 is the Great Shark Bullet... which will absorb all of Kakuzu's chakra and potentially take out a heart in the process. And yes, Kisamehada gains all of Samehadas ability, so he can self heal himself.
Thought so.
And I debunked your refutation once again. So, again, Kisamehada making contact with Kakuzu means all his chakra being drained.
Lmao, have you forgotten all of Kisames capabilities? Kisame while fused with Samehada gains sensory abilities, which means he will without a doubt sense the chakra within the masks. So of course he will aim to take them out as it takes no genius to realize this is part of Kakuzu's arsenal. Kakuzu and the masks swimming in separate directions accomplishes nothing as Kisamehada can fire off Shark bombs, GSB, and shark summons, all of which that can swim much faster in the WD.
So then what made you think the masks will be escaping the WD by swimming in separate directions. :|
No I wasn't. The DB disagreed with you. All the fuuton would accomplish on the outside is pushing the WD. It's pressured damage can't be implemented unless it's within the WD, as it would push out throughout the entire Dome causing it to disperse. From the outside, it will only hit one side of the dome, and knocking down a bunch of dead hollow tree's isn't an impressive enough feat to say it will overcome Kisames chakra control and make it disperse. At most one goes to his aid? Is that why
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of them has shown to come to his aid? Lmao, now you're denying manga facts. You didn't prove shit bro. Even if he can, you're not taking into consideration that chakra absorption=death as well. Either way, Kakuzu is done in the Water Dome.