Yata Mirror 101

[Klaves]

The databook states that the Yata is the thing that nullifies the attack : And nothing more.

It must have a wielder to be summoned, but the Yata has no choice but to nullify the attacks : claim that stands on empty air. Does objective reality submit to your subjective opinion? *Why has the Yata no choice but to nullify attack that does not touch it?

It must have a wielder to be summoned, but the Yata has no choice but to nullify the attacks : not the issue

the Yata is automatic : Yes; that is what I assumed and the reason why I disagree. Extending means more then just nullify opposing force it comes in touch with.

Why should it extend for no reason? Maybe if there is a "shrink" jutsu or something but not from the fire in the exploding kunais. What tells the mirror to extend if it is not the opposing jutsu?

Changing any and all properties leaves almost limitless options : but does it have more then one method?
*To return the same opposing force
*To detect incomming opposing force directed to its wielder <- does not make sense
*To extend itself to protect its weilder <- does not make sense

I am ready to consider argument that states the mirror extends from the kinetic energy applied to it; but not that it "grows" for no reason....

I cannot find any logical conclusion to say that it can only block from the front and needs to be used as a normal shield would

Do you even know what logic is? It is simply telling it as it is objectivetly.

"(Beer OR hot woman) AND steak" means "steak with either beer or hot woman"

I Khisi isn't lazy nor subjective "no-plotter"(at least not all the time.. Tobi as Obito was just stupit..)... He is most of the time objective and thinks about weakness and would exploid then in the story. Good example when he placed a "sticky bomb" on Minato That was awesome!

It nullifies the attack and nothing more. Right. But, it has reign to change any properties needed to nullify the attack. For instance if fire engulfed the front, you would say the Yata would nullify that. But, what if the flames kept coming and began to creep around the edges of the Yata? Logically with the explanation the databook provides, the Yata should change properties (shape and/or size) in order to effectively nullify the attack. I'm not stating it can become a full encasing shield with no cause, but that it may in order to nullify an attack. It does this by changing its properties.

It is not stated that the Yata needs to be summoned. Yet, how does the Yata exist without a Susano? How does it exist without a shinobi to perform that Susano? I don't know, but it is clear that a Susano needs to be present for it to exist in the way it is described within the databook. When I said "summon" I really meant in the simplest of ways: the Yata needs a Susano or the Yata would not be there.

As for the Yata nullifying things that it doesn't touch, it can't. The attacks are only nullified when they need to be. If you are concerned by how the Yata would "know" an attack was coming from behind, then you are not fully understanding the capabilities of the Yata. Changing properties appropriately to it's nullification purposes, the Yata will change size or shape if need be. Why? Because the Yata is nullifying the attack, but to protect what? Itself? The Susano? The wielder? As the image would imply, it is protecting the Susano. Perhaps it is doing this to protect the wielder, I don't know. But in any case, it ends up protecting both the Susano and the wielder.

Your issue with the Yata extending is hard to understand. The Yata would only extend, expand, change shape or size if it is needed to nullify an attack. You are acting as if somehow the Yata and all its capabilities fit within the original shape of it. As if it would "spread it too thin". That is simply not the case for something that can manipulate all of its properties, including thickness. There is no limit to this manipulation and thus expansion would simply be a one property adjustment that the Yata would make in order to nullify an attack that warranted it.

I'll start now with your statement that it does not make sense for the Yata to detect an incoming attack. It can't. The wielder may play a part in this, I don't know. What I'm saying is that knowing the attack is coming is not necessary; the Yata will perform its purpose regardless. A head on attack to the original shape of the Yata would work the same. The Yata doesn't know what the attack is until it needs to nullify it. The timing of such an act is incredible. It performs this nullification to protect. When the Yata can manipulate itself into whatever in needs to in order to nullify (and protect), why would it be limited to do so just because an attack isn't linear with its original positioning? If it can manipulate itself into whatever it needs to be, precisely when it needs to, how can you doubt its potential?

 

[Pepsilover]

It nullifies the attack and nothing more. Right. But, it has reign to change any properties needed to nullify the attack. For instance if fire engulfed the front, you would say the Yata would nullify that. But, what if the flames kept coming and began to creep around the edges of the Yata? Logically with the explanation the databook provides, the Yata should change properties (shape and/or size) in order to effectively nullify the attack. I'm not stating it can become a full encasing shield with no cause, but that it may in order to nullify an attack. It does this by changing its properties.

It is not stated that the Yata needs to be summoned. Yet, how does the Yata exist without a Susano? How does it exist without a shinobi to perform that Susano? I don't know, but it is clear that a Susano needs to be present for it to exist in the way it is described within the databook. When I said "summon" I really meant in the simplest of ways: the Yata needs a Susano or the Yata would not be there.

As for the Yata nullifying things that it doesn't touch, it can't. The attacks are only nullified when they need to be. If you are concerned by how the Yata would "know" an attack was coming from behind, then you are not fully understanding the capabilities of the Yata. Changing properties appropriately to it's nullification purposes, the Yata will change size or shape if need be. Why? Because the Yata is nullifying the attack, but to protect what? Itself? The Susano? The wielder? As the image would imply, it is protecting the Susano. Perhaps it is doing this to protect the wielder, I don't know. But in any case, it ends up protecting both the Susano and the wielder.

Your issue with the Yata extending is hard to understand. The Yata would only extend, expand, change shape or size if it is needed to nullify an attack. You are acting as if somehow the Yata and all its capabilities fit within the original shape of it. As if it would "spread it too thin". That is simply not the case for something that can manipulate all of its properties, including thickness. There is no limit to this manipulation and thus expansion would simply be a one property adjustment that the Yata would make in order to nullify an attack that warranted it.

I'll start now with your statement that it does not make sense for the Yata to detect an incoming attack. It can't. The wielder may play a part in this, I don't know. What I'm saying it that knowing the attack is coming is not necessary; the Yata will perform its purpose regardless. A head on attack to the original shape of the Yata would work the same. The Yata doesn't know what the attack is until it needs to nullify it. The timing of such an act is incredible. It performs this nullification to protect. When the Yata can manipulate itself into whatever in needs to in order to nullify (and protect), why would it be limited to do so just because an attack isn't linear with its original positioning? If it can manipulate itself into whatever it needs to be, precisely when it needs to, how can you doubt its potential?

the Yata should change properties (shape and/or size) in order to effectively nullify the attack

You are hellbent on this "attack". If I would verbally attack its wielder; would it verbally return my bash?

Like others have said, it returns the opposing element to element it comes in touch with.
We don't know if it nullifies "fire against fire" or "water against fire".

The focus is NOT THAT IT NULLIFIES "ATTACK"; rather that it is said "to be endowed with all nature transformations and AS SUCH changes its own characteristics to completely negate any opposition".

While "negating any opposition" might suggest "water against fire", I would suspect it returns the same element in opposition. This way it can also nullify kinetic energy and it also supports the latter denotion of the shield, e.g. "mirror".

There is nothing about ambigious "attack" on its weilder; only about its ability to transform to nullify opposition "element".(more on that later.)

As for the Yata nullifying things that it doesn't touch, it can't. The attacks are only nullified when they need to be

It sounds like you are prepering to contradict yourself "legally" later..

If you are concerned by how the Yata would "know" an attack was coming from behind, then you are not fully understanding the capabilities of the Yata. Changing properties appropriately to it's nullification purposes, the Yata will change size or shape if need be. Why? Because the Yata is nullifying the attack

Like I suspected... plot no jutsu..

You are basically saying one thing:

"Yata nullifes "all attacks"... Here let me wrap this statement in various ways"...

Let me say this once. Yata does not care about "attacks"!

It cares about what lands on it. The part of the name is MIRROR. It has influence from "Yata no Kagami" and is used as shield. (Why does it not extend by default all over susanoo?)

All evidence point that it returns the same thing that hits it and no more. There is nothing about "attack" on its wielder.. Only opposition to what that lands on it; equal to nullify.

p.s
You need more constriction context in your "logic"/imagination. There are no fun plots without context and some sense.

 

[Klaves]

the Yata should change properties (shape and/or size) in order to effectively nullify the attack

You are hellbent on this "attack". If I would verbally attack its wielder; would it verbally return my bash?

Like others have said, it returns the opposing element to element it comes in touch with.
We don't know if it nullifies "fire against fire" or "water against fire".

The focus is NOT THAT IT NULLIFIES "ATTACK"; rather that it is said "to be endowed with all nature transformations and AS SUCH changes its own characteristics to completely negate any opposition".

While "negating any opposition" might suggest "water against fire", I would suspect it returns the same element in opposition. This way it can also nullify kinetic energy and it also supports the latter denotion of the shield, e.g. "mirror".

There is nothing about ambigious "attack" on its weilder; only about its ability to transform to nullify attack.(more on that later.)


As for the Yata nullifying things that it doesn't touch, it can't. The attacks are only nullified when they need to be

It sounds like you are prepering to contradict yourself "legally" later..

If you are concerned by how the Yata would "know" an attack was coming from behind, then you are not fully understanding the capabilities of the Yata. Changing properties appropriately to it's nullification purposes, the Yata will change size or shape if need be. Why? Because the Yata is nullifying the attack

Like I suspected... plot no jutsu..

You are basically saying one this:

"Yata nullifes "all attacks"... Here let me wrap this statement in various ways"...

Let me say this once. Yata does not care about "attacks"!

It cares about what lands on it. The part of the name is MIRROR. It has influence from "Yata no Kagami".

All evidence point that it returns the same thing that hits it and no more. There is nothing about "attack" on its wielder.. Only opposition that lands on it.

p.s
You need more constriction context in your "logic"/imagination. There are no fun plots without context and some sense.

This will be my last post. You are kind of rude, refuse to answer any questions and seem to scrutinize constantly.

It is endowed with more than just the nature transformations. "...with the power to change every one of its properties"-Databook. Forget the "attack". We both agree that it returns the opposing force, yet you act as if all its possible properties exist within the nature transformations? That is speculation, and since "all properties" contains more than what you are willing to accept, it can't be helped.

It is stated nowhere that the Yata mirror may only nullify from its original position. It IS stated however that the Yata may change any property or attribute necessary to nullify. It is not specified to whether or not it can or cannot change shape to nullify (but with the databook entry, it is a logical conclusion since shape and size are properties).

The image from earlier clearly shows an expanded Yata. The part of the Yata that isn't covered in the explosion is nullifying the force/pressure from the explosion from exerting itself onto the rest of the Susano. It protects both the Susano and its user. This is an example of that property manipulation.

Also, I never argued what force it was using to nullify the attack. That's irrelevant.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

And according to databook both kamui and raikiri are unblock able.......Authority of the gods b!tch

 

[Xāvî1]

yata mirror technically blocks everything and hasn't been proven otherwise. However, seeing other powerful characters, Narutobase members decided to downplay yata mirror for their own convenience.

unless sasuke shows the yata mirror its pointless to urgue on the topic

 

[Tobby17]

I think yata mirror is like Minato's space time barrier

 

[Pepsilover]

This will be my last post. You are kind of rude, refuse to answer any questions and seem to scrutinize constantly.

It is endowed with more than just the nature transformations. "...with the power to change every one of its properties"-Databook. Forget the "attack". We both agree that it returns the opposing force, yet you act as if all its possible properties exist within the nature transformations? That is speculation, and since "all properties" contains more than what you are willing to accept, it can't be helped.

It is stated nowhere that the Yata mirror may only nullify from its original position. It IS stated however that the Yata may change any property or attribute necessary to nullify. It is not specified to whether or not it can or cannot change shape to nullify (but with the databook entry, it is a logical conclusion since shape and size are properties).

The image from earlier clearly shows an expanded Yata. The part of the Yata that isn't covered in the explosion is nullifying the force/pressure from the explosion from exerting itself onto the rest of the Susano. It protects both the Susano and its user. This is an example of that property manipulation.

Also, I never argued what force it was using to nullify the attack. That's irrelevant.

I am rude; I get easially annoyed but there is no need to take it to a personal level. Arguments hone the ability to apply and take criticism.

I got annoyed by you when you tried to undermine my statement "dashes indicating speed" with the "cat going to space image"; so you gave me permission to be rude

I am going all anbu squat on you! :anbus:

---
First; stop trying to shadow your claim. It is easy to filter out what you really want to say. "Itachi solos with Yata-mirror and it defends against all attacks"... We are all different kind of fanboys here; no need to hide it =D

It is not specified to whether or not it can or cannot change shape to nullify (but with the databook entry, it is a logical conclusion since shape and size are properties).

it is a logical conclusion

<- this premises is invalid! :devil:

No; it is not a logical "conclusion".

I know you are trying to make this claim that sounds something like this: "Yata will defend its wielder without any regard of direction of the attack"; -and you are not doing a good job shadowing this claim.

There is no evidence and the only context that suggessed that it might expand is when it is directly hit with an element with expanding attribute... <- Still only a speculation but makes sense given the context.
One time you say you agree with only this but then you suddenly extend this "posibility" e.g.

If you are concerned by how the Yata would "know" an attack was coming from behind, then you are not fully understanding the capabilities of the Yata. Changing properties appropriately to it's nullification purposes, the Yata will change size or shape if need be. Why? Because the Yata is nullifying the attack

The context is defending against attack from beind right?
You say:
"Yata is nullyfying the attack", "the Yata will change size or shape if need be", "Why? Because the Yata is nullifying the attack"... <- This is all you say! There is nothing else to understand.

So with plot-no-context; the Yata does not need to "know" where its nullify its attack? it simply nullifies it because that is what it does?? You sound like a entry level programmer at the best... (it is also not the primary function of the Yata-mirror. It only changes its attributes to correspond/mirror the opposing element attribute.)

I look at the manga and see that Itachi did not use the Yata to take less damage agains Kabudo, -or to nullify Nagatos "black hole" gravity jutsu. What should I make of this objective material when I compere it to your subjective speculations?

It is also cooler that it have some kind of restrictions as Itachi could use tactics like bottlenecking where the opponent can strike him; like how Sasuke uses Amaterasu.

Also, I never argued what force it was using to nullify the attack. That's irrelevant.

I was giving you a context where the name comes from; a insight that might help clarify its function and constraints as you hide behind "possibilities" of being endowed by all properties. You talk like the Yata-mirror is a living plot-no-defense with no context, constrainst or any other limitations.

Forgetting the context; I could also do the same thing and argue that the shield is also as a weapon. If we forget that it only returns a equal force to nullify opposition force*; then why should we limit our imagination only with the function of "growing"?

*like the ground under your feet returns the same amount of force you apply to it.

 

[Klaves]

I am rude; I get easially annoyed but there is no need to take it to a personal level. Arguments hone the ability to apply and take criticism.

I got annoyed by you when you tried to undermine my statement "dashes indicating speed" with the "cat going to space image"; so you gave me permission to be rude

I am going all anbu squat on you! :anbus:

---
First; stop trying to shadow your claim. It is easy to filter out what you really want to say. "Itachi solos with Yata-mirror and it defends against all attacks"... We are all different kind of fanboys here; no need to hide it =D



<- this premises is invalid! :devil:

No; it is not a logical "conclusion".

I know you are trying to make this claim that sounds something like this: "Yata will defend its wielder without any regard of direction of the attack"; -and you are not doing a good job shadowing this claim.

There is no evidence and the only context that suggessed that it might expand is when it is directly hit with an element with expanding attribute... <- Still only a speculation but makes sense given the context.
One time you say you agree with only this but then you suddenly extend this "posibility" e.g.



The context is defending against attack from beind right?
You say:
"Yata is nullyfying the attack", "the Yata will change size or shape if need be", "Why? Because the Yata is nullifying the attack"... <- This is all you say! There is nothing else to understand.

So with plot-no-context; the Yata does not need to "know" where its nullify its attack? it simply nullifies it because that is what it does?? You sound like a entry level programmer at the best... (it is also not the primary function of the Yata-mirror. It only changes its attributes to correspond/mirror the opposing element attribute.)

I look at the manga and see that Itachi did not use the Yata to take less damage agains Kabudo, -or to nullify Nagatos "black hole" gravity jutsu. What should I make of this objective material when I compere it to your subjective speculations?

It is also cooler that it have some kind of restrictions as Itachi could use tactics like bottlenecking where the opponent can strike him; like how Sasuke uses Amaterasu.



I was giving you a context where the name comes from; a insight that might help clarify its function and constraints as you hide behind "possibilities" of being endowed by all properties. You talk like the Yata-mirror is a living plot-no-defense with no context, constrainst or any other limitations.

Forgetting the context; I could also do the same thing and argue that the shield is also as a weapon. If we forget that it only returns a equal force to nullify opposition force*; then why should we limit our imagination only with the function of "growing"?

*like the ground under your feet returns the same amount of force you apply to it.

Hey man, I'm not the one who posted the cat picture....

 

[ixc]

The manga stated ''Zetsu" that Itachi with Yata mirror and Totsuka blade is invincible.

Itachi solo's the Narutoverse.

 

[Pepsilover]

Hey man, I'm not the one who posted the cat picture....

I ... feel ... like ...an ... ass....

I am an idiot...

here: a +1 rep...