[Theory] naruto regenerates the chakra he uses to create clones.

[osba]

It must be this way, because else the clones he left at the waterfall to gather sage chakra shouldn't have helped seeing as it is a 33% yin 33% yang 33% nature chakra ratio
..But he wasn't capable of creating new clones..
proof:

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(Don't mind the text, its from another theory of mine ^.^)

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Wich must mean that the reason he was only capable of creating that much clones was because he had too little time to regenerate his chakra.

Plot hole: if Naruto could create clones and let them regenerate their chakra, what is keeping him from creating an entire army at some desolate place and letting them poof whenever he needs alot of chakra the same way you would use a yin seal?

 

[valandil988]

Hmm it is a hazy area tbh. The fact that Kishi retconned Shadow clones to charge up senjutsu for Naruto is what caused this problem. Before that we thought shadow clones actually used chakra causing it to be lost after the jutsu ended. Apparently that isn't the case at all, all chakra used to create the shadow clones is returned to the user unless it is utilized is some other way. Ie jutsu. Big plot hole really.

 

[osba]

Hmm it is a hazy area tbh. The fact that Kishi retconned Shadow clones to charge up senjutsu for Naruto is what caused this problem. Before that we thought shadow clones actually used chakra causing it to be lost after the jutsu ended. Apparently that isn't the case at all, all chakra used to create the shadow clones is returned to the user unless it is utilized is some other way. Ie jutsu. Big plot hole really.

yeah i'm hoping for some genius to explain it to us but if you would ask me, i would say it is indeed a plothole.. even if it would work the way i state here there still is a plothole..

 

[Vetox]

I thought of it that way...but meh...I dont think too much about it XD

 

[ldrill28]

I don't quite understand what you're getting at. Shadow Clones do cost chakra, but they also become their own entity. I'm missing this regenerate chakra point you're implying. The clones Naruto had gathering nature energy, didn't regenerate his chakra when dispersed, they provided him with nature energy to enter Sage Mode. While in Sage Mode all of his abilities are enhanced, including physical endurance and vitality. Obviously when he enters this mode he will become reinvigorated, but his chakra isn't being regenerated, he just gains access to another energy source. Having Shadow Clones gather nature energy is noted to require focus, that is why his clone number is limited whilst employing this strategy. Seeing as how he is the GOAT at Shadow Clones, I would assume whatever strategy he puts into motion regarding them, is the best possible one. Now, he can enter Sage Mode so quickly I doubt he will use that course of action again.

 

[osba]

I don't quite understand what you're getting at. Shadow Clones do cost chakra, but they also become their own entity. I'm missing this regenerate chakra point you're implying. The clones Naruto had gathering nature energy, didn't regenerate his chakra when dispersed, they provided him with nature energy to enter Sage Mode. While in Sage Mode all of his abilities are enhanced, including physical endurance and vitality. Obviously when he enters this mode he will become reinvigorated, but his chakra isn't being regenerated, he just gains access to another energy source. Having Shadow Clones gather nature energy is noted to require focus, that is why his clone number is limited whilst employing this strategy. Seeing as how he is the GOAT at Shadow Clones, I would assume whatever strategy he puts into motion regarding them, is the best possible one. Now, he can enter Sage Mode so quickly I doubt he will use that course of action again.

You really dont get it do you? x)
read it again and if you still don't understand it i'm afraid i can't help you i wrote it down as simple as possible

 

[AzR]

wait... isnt the clone duty just to collect nature's energy... they didnt actually mold it to senjutsu

 

[osba]

wait... isnt the clone duty just to collect nature's energy... they didnt actually mold it to senjutsu

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sage mode = gathered nature energy

 

[ldrill28]

You really dont get it do you? x)
read it again and if you still don't understand it i'm afraid i can't help you i wrote it down as simple as possible

SMH, you're giving yourself way too much credit. My point is you don't even understand the subject you're broaching. I'm not looking to get into a debate with you over something so clearly explained in the manga, so live and let live I suppose.

 

[AzR]

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sage mode = gathered nature energy

yes.. i know that sage mode can still be gathering nature energy but they have to sit perfectly still... just like the clones used by naruto and the jiraiya with the amphibian tech by the toads... to separate movement and stillness

if you noticed during the pain arc.... at myoubokuzan mountain,naruto gathering the nature's chakra but there is no sign of sage mode on his eyes and also with the link you gave,you see the mark on his eyes but its actually naruto turning into frog

 

[yoshimitsu]

My guess is having that many clones dilutes all his forms of chakra too much. So when it is needed, he would only be making use of his nature chakra and not nature + spiritual + physical.

There's also the matter of concentration and ability to withhold from being consumed by natural energy. 2-3 Clones gathering nature chakra seems the best Naruto can do.

 

[Sot6p]

SMH, you're giving yourself way too much credit. My point is you don't even understand the subject you're broaching. I'm not looking to get into a debate with you over something so clearly explained in the manga, so live and let live I suppose.

Nobody understands the subject, honestly.
Kishi doesn't, either.
This isn't science.
This wasn't made to make sense. You're always bond to find holes in the logic of a man.

 

[osba]

yes.. i know that sage mode can still be gathering nature energy but they have to sit perfectly still... just like the clones used by naruto and the jiraiya with the amphibian tech by the toads... to separate movement and stillness

if you noticed during the pain arc.... at myoubokuzan mountain,naruto gathering the nature's chakra but there is no sign of sage mode on his eyes and also with the link you gave,you see the mark on his eyes but its actually naruto turning into frog

Yes but you see it still takes chakra to keep the gathered nature chakra in tome.. one part yin and yang per nature..
For it to be beneficial Naruto must be capable of replenishing his chakra he has stored in the shadowclone even before it vanishes.
Actually when he is done training at the waterfall he does have the markings:yeah:

 

[FearxDeath]

First off I want to say that you have underestimated the potency of Senjutsu. Keep in mind that charging up for a brief [5 scans] moment gave Naruto enough chakra to use Rasenshuriken 3 times, So to compare that to a Naruto who has been charging up Senjutsu in the waterfall for days.

Spoiler

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Below is a excerpt from a thread I created a while back:

What is the Shadow Clone Jutsu​

Spoiler

Shadow clone is merely a jutsu that allows you to create clones of yourself which can be used in many different ways from attacking the enemy, distracting the enemy, confusing the enemy, or even gaining intellegence from the enemy.

Short-coming of the Shadow Clone Jutsu​

Spoiler

Spoiler

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As the scan says, your chakra is divided amoung each clone who then act on there own, lets do some math to find out how damaging this really is. Let us say the average Jounin has 1,000 Chakra Supply. Lets say that Naruto has 10x this amount, including chakra from Kurama. Which would give him 10,000 Chakra. Now if Naruto was to make 3 clones, each would have 3,300 Chakra supply, which in itself isnt too bad. But if he were to make 10 clones. Now as we this jutsu has the potentail to do alot more harm than good as it makes the original user alot weak. These are alot different from regular clones which have no chakra and are merely diversions, or water/earth clones which hold 1/10 of the casters chakra and dissepate into there respective natures when destroyed [

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].

The identifying trait of a shadow clone is that it disapears into a puff of smoke when destroyed, and can interact physically with other objects and people. But again most importantly is that rather than having a fraction of the casters jutsu they have a dividend of it. If kakashi was to make 2 water clones they would each have 1/10th of his chakra and he would have 8/10ths, if he were to make 2 shadow clones him and the clones would each have 1/3 of his maximum chakra. This allows the shadow clones to use more powerful attacks at the cost of the casters chakra.

*Keep in mind one does not regain the chakra used to create a shadow clone when the clone is detroyed, this is the same for ANY clone technique. Although one does gain the experience and knowledge gained of the clone regardless. The Chakra is only regained if the user manually releases the technique, I will comment on this later in the thread in the "ADDED SECTION"*

If Chakra was returned upon death then during Naruto's fight with Pain when Pa reverse summoned the clone he would have simply killed it instead of yelling at Naruto to undo the jutsu.

Types of Clone Jutsu's

Spoiler

Not all clones are Shadow Clones. For instances there are Rock Clones, Water Clones and Earth Clones, Although these are not standard clones as they have "Substance" and can interact with things and attack things, they are also not refereed to or thought of as Shadow Clones. [

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]

But it is only in Kakashi's case do we see the clone refereed to as a kage, or shadow.

Proof of Clone Draining Chakra

Spoiler

Spoiler

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Rai-kage Bunshin = Lighting-Shadow Clone

In this scan where kakashi fought off Pain he opened with a lighting-Shadow Clone, afterwards Choiji's dad says it was an impressive feat but what about your chakra reserves, and kakashi responds by saying he has about half his chakra left.

Now we already know that Chidori doesnt consume alot of chakra, we have seen Kakashi use it far too many times without being drained of half of his chakra. So then why when mixing a lighting style with a clone does he suddenly lose HALF his entire chakra? Because when the clone was killed the chakra was not returned to him.

One thing to keep in mind is that Kakashi's lighting clone technique was a shadow clone combination with a lighting technique. We know that it is a shadow clone because it can interact with the objects around it and cast jutsu. Here is a link backing up this fact: [

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]

 

[Mr Hiru]

First off I want to say that you have underestimated the potency of Senjutsu. Keep in mind that charging up for a brief [5 scans] moment gave Naruto enough chakra to use Rasenshuriken 3 times, So to compare that to a Naruto who has been charging up Senjutsu in the waterfall for days.

Spoiler

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You must be registered for see images

Below is a excerpt from a thread I created a while back:

What is the Shadow Clone Jutsu​

Spoiler

Shadow clone is merely a jutsu that allows you to create clones of yourself which can be used in many different ways from attacking the enemy, distracting the enemy, confusing the enemy, or even gaining intellegence from the enemy.

Short-coming of the Shadow Clone Jutsu​

Spoiler

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

As the scan says, your chakra is divided amoung each clone who then act on there own, lets do some math to find out how damaging this really is. Let us say the average Jounin has 1,000 Chakra Supply. Lets say that Naruto has 10x this amount, including chakra from Kurama. Which would give him 10,000 Chakra. Now if Naruto was to make 3 clones, each would have 3,300 Chakra supply, which in itself isnt too bad. But if he were to make 10 clones. Now as we this jutsu has the potentail to do alot more harm than good as it makes the original user alot weak. These are alot different from regular clones which have no chakra and are merely diversions, or water/earth clones which hold 1/10 of the casters chakra and dissepate into there respective natures when destroyed [

You must be registered for see links

].

The identifying trait of a shadow clone is that it disapears into a puff of smoke when destroyed, and can interact physically with other objects and people. But again most importantly is that rather than having a fraction of the casters jutsu they have a dividend of it. If kakashi was to make 2 water clones they would each have 1/10th of his chakra and he would have 8/10ths, if he were to make 2 shadow clones him and the clones would each have 1/3 of his maximum chakra. This allows the shadow clones to use more powerful attacks at the cost of the casters chakra.

*Keep in mind one does not regain the chakra used to create a shadow clone when the clone is detroyed, this is the same for ANY clone technique. Although one does gain the experience and knowledge gained of the clone regardless. The Chakra is only regained if the user manually releases the technique, I will comment on this later in the thread in the "ADDED SECTION"*

If Chakra was returned upon death then during Naruto's fight with Pain when Pa reverse summoned the clone he would have simply killed it instead of yelling at Naruto to undo the jutsu.

Types of Clone Jutsu's

Spoiler

Not all clones are Shadow Clones. For instances there are Rock Clones, Water Clones and Earth Clones, Although these are not standard clones as they have "Substance" and can interact with things and attack things, they are also not refereed to or thought of as Shadow Clones. [

You must be registered for see links

]

But it is only in Kakashi's case do we see the clone refereed to as a kage, or shadow.

Proof of Clone Draining Chakra

Spoiler

Spoiler

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Rai-kage Bunshin = Lighting-Shadow Clone

In this scan where kakashi fought off Pain he opened with a lighting-Shadow Clone, afterwards Choiji's dad says it was an impressive feat but what about your chakra reserves, and kakashi responds by saying he has about half his chakra left.

Now we already know that Chidori doesnt consume alot of chakra, we have seen Kakashi use it far too many times without being drained of half of his chakra. So then why when mixing a lighting style with a clone does he suddenly lose HALF his entire chakra? Because when the clone was killed the chakra was not returned to him.

One thing to keep in mind is that Kakashi's lighting clone technique was a shadow clone combination with a lighting technique. We know that it is a shadow clone because it can interact with the objects around it and cast jutsu. Here is a link backing up this fact: [

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]

So, to be conclusive, you're stating that the Shadow Clones only returns chakra when the User or the Clone undoes the technique voluntarely?

 

[FearxDeath]

So, to be conclusive, you're stating that the Shadow Clones only returns chakra when the User or the Clone undoes the technique voluntarely?

Yes, I had a debate about this with someone some time ago and the place where we drew the line at was that: although some chakra may be returned upon destruction, along with the information the shadow clones get, said amount would be considerably less than the total amount of chakra the clone had.

The part about Pa toad yelling for Naruto to undo the summon as oppose to him just killing it was pretty much the closer. But the fact that Naruto could make 1000, have them all killed and still survive left me with 3 options:

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1) Naruto being an Uzumaki has high reserved chakra making it harder for him to die, in a sense when near death he gets a chakra boost. So when he drops to 1/10 chakra levels, he gets boosted back up to 3/10.. but that seemed unlikely.

2) When low on Chakra he taps/takes in some of the Kyubi chakra which helps him refuel. This is more likely and probably true but the other guy would accept it.

3) So I settled for, he gets a small amount of chakra back, so if he makes 9 clones and all of them die, even though that would leave him at 1/10 chakra, he gets about 2/10 back from every clone, which adds to be 2/10 back to him. Leaving a total of 3/10.

 

[adeshina365]

It's the only logical way that Naruto can make as much clones as he does and still fight after the fact.

I mean, does it make sense for Naruto to make say 100 clones, leaving him with 1/100 of his chakra left and still have enough energy to fight? I don't think so.

 

[osba]

.

yes but you see then it should not have helped for naruto to use the clones to gather nature energy.. its a 33% 33% 33% ratio so if he gives each clone 33% of his chakra, and he goes to battle with 33% himself, the sage clones don't add anything.
so if you look at it that way then he only went against pain with 33% of his chakra..
but why would it help to have 33% 3 times or 100% 1 time? beats me.
it should be like this: 50% chakra on one clone, wait for his chakra to reacummulate and create another clone.

 

[mlickko]

yes but you see then it should not have helped for naruto to use the clones to gather nature energy.. its a 33% 33% 33% ratio so if he gives each clone 33% of his chakra, and he goes to battle with 33% himself, the sage clones don't add anything.
so if you look at it that way then he only went against pain with 33% of his chakra..
but why would it help to have 33% 3 times or 100% 1 time? beats me.
it should be like this: 50% chakra on one clone, wait for his chakra to reacummulate and create another clone.

Jeez, so your point was that simple thing?
You thought that when Naruto creates clones, he is left only with some?
For example, if he does 10 clones he is left with 1/10 of his total chakra but he stays with 1/10 of chakra until he releases the clones? And you are making a point that he can regenerate that 1/10 to full capacity all the while his clones are active?....
I thought this was common logic.

 

[osba]

Jeez, so your point was that simple thing?
You thought that when Naruto creates clones, he is left only with some?
For example, if he does 10 clones he is left with 1/10 of his total chakra but he stays with 1/10 of chakra until he releases the clones? And you are making a point that he can regenerate that 1/10 to full capacity all the while his clones are active?....
I thought this was common logic.

if it is, then why doesn't he create an army of clones that he "poofs" whenever he needs chakra like a yin seal? plot?
if you have nothing to add to this discussion please stay away..