That is only part of said argument and your rebuttal is just as poor, if not, even moreso. Hiruzen said that there was always something "off" about Orochimaru. Regardless of if his parents were alive, he'd still be evil.
Being "off" doesn't make you evil, with parental guidance & influence surrounding you then the chance of that growing is significantly lowered if not completely nullified. You cant say that oro would still be evil based on a statement saying that he was "off", because even he cried when he was attacking hiruze, he feels sadness & therefore isnt adherently evil.
Remember that Orochimaru mastered Edo Tensei, if that was the case, he'd simply bring them back. Same for Madara.
& obito can do the same with rin, I don't see the validity in this point.
The Uchiha clan always distrusted the Senju clan, had Izuna not died, things would have still remained the same.
Untrue, many uchiha wanted the fighting to stop. It was izuna's sacrifice against that which turned madara against hashi & thus brought him on his path towards darkness. Uchiha were defecting to the senju, remember? When hashi proposed the idea of an alliance who hesitated? Madara did, he was considering it, unlike his brother who wanted nothing to do with the them. Once izuna died then madara realized that his sacrifice was for nothing & now he had a reason other than his uchiha heritage to hate the senju. Had izuna not died then a proper true could have been established as madara would've grown no hate.
Izuna's death was the catalyst, oro's parents were his catalyst, same for obito & rin.
Think about it, Hashirama stated that Madara had four younger brothers including Izuna. If this was truly about Izuna as Rin is for Obito, why didn't Madara snap when his other brothers died?
I don't see any proof stating that he didn't..
Also remember that even though Madara was upset at his brother's death, he was willing to move past that when Hashirama was willing to kill himself. It was Tobirama's distrust and refusal to allow Madara become Hokage that made him realise that hope was futile.
Further proving my point, tobirama's influence also helped stem madara's darkness. Had tobirama not been there to fan the fire then madara's chances at becoming evil would be much less likely. You cant deny it as you said so yourself.
Concerning Sasuke, he's just the same as Obito, only when he was finally told the truth about his brother by Tobi and
Hashirama, he let their deaths go. Obito has yet to do any of that.
Because he is too far gone into the darkness, before sasuke turned good he was all in it for Itachi, he didn't let go of Itachi's death until the very end. Madara hasn't let go of izuna's death, he just doesn't talk about him much due to his overall lack of interest in anything except for hashi.
Villains have something which caused their turning point. Madara's was izuna, oro's was arguably his parents, nagato had his parents & yahiko. Sasuke had his parents & itachi's death & obito had rin. All villains have a death that planted the seed of hate, it takes a dark influence & evil forces in order to water, grow & nurture said seed.
Like I said above, it's not about who dies in Madara's case. Or any of the other villains I mentioned in my earlier posts. But with Obito, it applies. Had it been anyone else, Obito wouldn't have done the things he's done. When Rin died, that's when he cracked.
Yes it was as I have proven. Had a fodder uchiha died in izuna's place then do you think he would still care about his sacrifice? or course not. It was the fact that his brother died believing in something & madara wishes to honor him. Without izuna then madara's descent into darkness is nothing. Same with sasuke, sasuke was convinced at the end but its proven that his mind can easily be persuaded. Obito on the other hand, not so much.
Normally, I'd agree with you when you say it's not about him, but with him constantly mentioning it and referencing it, that starts to show otherwise as the other villains hadn't done so.
Why are you stating false facts again? Sasuke didn't stop talking about itachi. It was because his goal as a villain revolved around him. Obito's goal as a villain revolves around what happened to rin & so he talks about it.
Just because he mentions it all the time doesn't mean that that's the only reason or its all about that. Simply his ideals & his entire plan stemmed from that moment, that moment where instead of a comforting grasp he received a cold embrace. He even says in the recent chapter that minato always arrives too late, had minato been there to comfort him then guess what? possible good obito.
Madara ruined everything for his innocence & childhood & you cannot deny that as it is an absolute fact.
Obito's goal isn't larger. Yes you raise a point in how Madara twisted his ideals, but think of it this way, Madara gave his plans more depth. Without it, it would fully revolve around Rin.
You just said that if madara wasn't there then obito would still have a plan, albeit with less depth, well madara gave him a plan to begin with. If obito was by himself then he would've most likely committed suicide or fallen into an extreme form of depression. Madara's I/T gave him hope for a better future, a future where nobody has to experience what he experienced.
If obito was given the proper mentor to guide him then there wouldn't even be an I/T plan because it was madara's idea. What would obito do by himself? Go hunt down the entire mist ninja for the sake of rin? Then what? His revenge is fulfilled & he can go back to konoha, that's what sasuke would've done had obito not told him the truth, so there you go..
Sasuke is similar in that case. Also, think about all the Rin flashbacks he's had. Even if a situation had nothing to do with Rin, he'd find a way to make it about her, as the latest chapter shows.
Yes, he is similar in almost every way. & so what about the flashbacks? They all have something to do with his plans & the bigger picture behind what is going on. None of the rin flashbacks are for no reason, they all post some sort of relevance to obito's intentions. & he's not trying to make it about her, the last chapter shows that minato was too late to save him it was about minato, rin isn't even mentioned.
Also, take note how he didn't go through with Madara's plan because of what? His thoughts about Rin. Unlike the other villains, he can't seem to let that go. That is many people's issue here.
When did he not go through with the plan? When he was a stricken 14 year old kid who was still conflicted by moral choices that he made (the mass murder).
I have no clue when you think that he didn't go through with madara's plan but he always did, he was just never on madara's side.
& the letting go, again was shown with both sasuke & nagato & madara, if obito couldn't let go then why the hell didn't he revive her? If all he cares about is rin then where is she? Why isn't obito on the other side of the world with a revived rin? Why all the trouble? Because its bigger than just a girl, she merely started it while madara perpetuated it. See? its simple if you dont look at it through a closed mind like many people here do.
Remember that his team thought he was dead. Considering the injury, we can't blame them. Madara could have persuaded him ad infinitum, but if he felt that Rin should rest in peace, they would all be for naught.
Hmm.? Im going to need you to clarify this point.
Also, one can't influence someone to do something that they never cared or had any intentions to do. The thought of Rin had to be in Obito's mind for Madara's manipulation to have been effective. Think of it like this, I could convince you to hurt yourself all I want, but if you don't want to do it, I won't have any success in getting you to.
Completely true & I never denied it, my point however is that even if obito wanted to pursue evil goals, madara was the one who encouraged him to do those things. Everyone who experiences death will obviously hold some form of pain, especially when the one who died was murdered, if your sibling was murdered would you not hate the one responsible & want to kill them? Of course you would, madara knew this & exploited it. You are right, you cant influence someone to do something that they don't want to do, but you can convince them otherwise, which is exactly what minato's influence would've done. I think I've made my point, it all still boils down to influence in the end.
That's true but heed what I said before, if Obito didn't have the thought in his mind, nothing Madara would have done would have worked.
Anybody in his situation would feel the exact same way because that's what the murder of a loved one does, it makes you hate the ones responsible & madara gave obito something that he could do to stop that pain.
Also, remember that Madara was elderly and would die soon, therefore ending his influence. Even as Madara passed and no longer could manipulate him, Obito still continued his plan. When Madara was revived and he was confronted, he still continued on. Now this time it's on him.
This is already after the fact, & btw you have no idea how long madara was alive for, he could've been around for a few more years, & regardless, the seed was watered & it had already started to sprout at that point. As I stated earlier, madara is old & extremely knowledgeable regarding the uchiha & their emotions, if madara knew that his time was soon over then he would take the necessary precautions in order to cement obito's spot as a villain.
Madara was exploiting obito's young uchiha mind, nothing more U_U
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