For you Obito haters

[l Forgotten l]

I dislike Obito, and you just made me dislike him a little more with that 3rd option

 

[b7718]

Bro, just post what you have to say, I'm not looking for an edited old post.

 

[b7718]

I'm lazy, and my pizza's here.

 

[SabakuNoGaaraOVZ]

That is an excellent example to further explain. We've seen Sasuke's/Itachi's/ and Madera's (though his version of events are still on the way) internal struggle with decisions they've made or decisions they’re contemplating.

Obito was crushed by boulders, met Madera, and Rin died. Bing, Bang, Boom. - He's a bad guy that wants to put an end to the world as we know it.

Had Kishi spent a few chapters with Obito grappling with himself once Madera passed away (questioning his judgement and the path he was about to take) prior to his attack on the Village with Minato, it would have resinated with us on a much deeper level.

Madara was dead, he could’ve left and dedicated the rest of his life to doing anything, however he made the choice to go through with ending this world in favor of a new one (If that's even still the plan).

Now these are few ideas off the top of my head that I thew together, but here's some examples of how Kishi could've tugged on our emotions (I'll write more later):

- Obito knew exactly when he "needed" to attack the village - It's literally a ticking clock scenario (classic tension builder)

- Have him mentally grappling with horrendous acts that he knows he has to commit.

- There's no doubt he knew that he had to face Minato, a man he deeply respected, and that he probably viewed as a second father, show that troubling him.

- Minato's no push over either, his skills were revered throughout the ninja world, maybe show him training to fight against him physically and mentally.

- To release Kurama, he knew that he would have to kill Kushina (who I'm certain he's met and spent time with in the past). Have him recall the first time he was introduced to her. Show her smiling, and laughing with Minato, Rin, and Kakashi. Let those memories eat him up from the inside out - But SHOW IT.

- We know Zetsu was around, show Obito watching the village and his friends from afar, have him poke up from the ground to offer up some words of "wisdom" to egg him on.

- Maybe have Obito's conviction to go through with the plan begin to falter and Boom!

- Blind side him again. Have him on the verge of returning back to the village, and set in motion another trigger to push him over the edge and proceed forward with the attack. (Have Zetsu be responsible for setting whatever it is in motion to spur him on).

I'm certain another flashback is on the way soon to correct that, but it missed its mark, we'll get the information, but it'll most likely be more about his decision to deviate from Madara's original plan, and reveal his own (it won't have the same emotional impact, but there was room for both).

I’ll come back to this in a bit, my lunch break is over.

And yes i agree that these types of flashback would definetly improve obito's story, I totally forgot about the fact that the dude was gna fight his own teacher, attack his own village etc. BUT, dont you think it would be a little late to show these flasbacks now? I mean, kishi had the chance to do this when kakashi saw obito was tobi, or with these madara & obito flashbacks, maybe even now when minato encountered him? Maybe he didnt show them cus we've already been seeing a lot of flashbacks, but when he fought kakashi, or when he was taking control of the juubi inside him, there was time to show us some more, and instead of showing us these new information type of flashbacks, he showed us some about how he remembers his team (So he actually liked his team but had no problem fighting his teacher..)

 

[Murasame]

Really? You just couldnt understand that the last part of my comment was meant to show you that obito's story sucks?
And then call me an idiot while you're the one that actually thinks that I find sakura's background story interesting?

You know what, lets just skip that. For the bold; This is what Obito is doing now. This is not his background story. This is the result of his background story. His background story is the rin + manipulation by madara part (and that SUCKED, although his actions in the past 16 years were all boss moves). The manipulation part wasnt that special either, cus that was an extreme coincidence that madara happened to be the one saving him (making the story suck even more)
italic; this makes madara a boss, not obito. and again, it wasnt interesting that he got manipulated.

furthermore, you think obito's story is better than sasuke's? how?

as for madara; read chapter 625, if you still find obito's story more interesting than madara's after that then im outta here.

Lol Im starting to get the feeling that its like that on about every thread..
I mean, im not even attacking him. imo obito is a boss for the bossmoves hes making now, but i just cant deny that that rin shinobi system is pure bs.

It's all a matter of opinion you moron. You think Obito's back story sucks I don't.

*sigh* Where did I call you an idiot for liking sakura's backstory? You didn't say that.. this is what you said "didnt think it would be debatable that Obito's story is less interesting, I mean.. If you really think you can compare his story with these other guys, we might as well add sakura's story; an insecure girl that got bullied and then ino came and made her more confident" I said the comparison was dumb not your likeness for her... get it right.

Where did I say Obito's back story was better than Sasuke's or Madara's? Do you have reading comprehension problems? I clearly said SAME and imo. Don't like it? Go cry about it then.

Did you ignore his everything before that? See you don't get the whole picture.. you're only revolving around his descent to darkness but seem to forget everything before that. Reread Kakashi Gaiden then look at all flashbacks involving Obito that'll explain better than I could.

And if you still don't like him that is not my problem.. I'm not here to change yours or anyone's opinion

 

[SabakuNoGaaraOVZ]

It's all a matter of opinion you moron. You think Obito's back story sucks I don't.

*sigh* Where did I call you an idiot for liking sakura's backstory? You didn't say that.. this is what you said "didnt think it would be debatable that Obito's story is less interesting, I mean.. If you really think you can compare his story with these other guys, we might as well add sakura's story; an insecure girl that got bullied and then ino came and made her more confident" I said the comparison was dumb not your likeness for her... get it right.

Where did I say Obito's back story was better than Sasuke's or Madara's? Do you have reading comprehension problems? I clearly said SAME and imo. Don't like it? Go cry about it then.

Did you ignore his everything before that? See you don't get the whole picture.. you're only revolving around his descent to darkness but seem to forget everything before that. Reread Kakashi Gaiden then look at all flashbacks involving Obito that'll explain better than I could.

And if you still don't like him that is not my problem.. I'm not here to change yours or anyone's opinion

Lmao don't freaking make me laugh with the last part.. I'm not going to bother elaborating on that because anyone who isn't an idiot wouldn't use that comparison.

I used that comparison, that makes me an idiot then right? so you called me an idiot indirectly and a moron directly. I'm not even reading the rest of whatever you got to say if this is the type of person you are, why post a thread or even talk to people on the internet if you're this hot headed? let your guard down fanboy, dont ruin your day over an anime character

 

[Murasame]

I dislike Obito, and you just made me dislike him a little more with that 3rd option

Not my problem.

Bro, just post what you have to say, I'm not looking for an edited old post.

That is an excellent example to further explain. We've seen Sasuke's/Itachi's/ and Madera's (though his version of events are still on the way) internal struggle with decisions they've made or decisions they’re contemplating.

Me:Well we didn't know Tobi was Obito majority of the show correct? So tell me how are we going to get connected to Obito the same as we did with Itachi and Sasuke in suhc a short time? They both had plenty of time for development and whatnot. He is the same as Madara.. his events are still ongoing so please stop with your nonsense.

Obito was crushed by boulders, met Madera, and Rin died. Bing, Bang, Boom. - He's a bad guy that wants to put an end to the world as we know it.
Me:Again you you're thinking on the simple side there's more to it so please don't make repeat myself.. I explained this multiple times.

Had Kishi spent a few chapters with Obito grappling with himself once Madera passed away (questioning his judgement and the path he was about to take) prior to his attack on the Village with Minato, it would have resinated with us on a much deeper level.

Me:Not really because some people would complain about it and say "is he even a true villan" or "he might get talk no jutsu'd in the future".. we get that now just imagine it if we saw Obito having doubts about being a villain.. see where I'm going? No matter what there is going to be people who complain about the character.. there would be some guy like you doubting whether he is a villain or not and then there would be a guy like me trying to prove he is.. do you see it? No matter what there is going to be two sides arguing about it no matter how you paint it. Now to counter this yet again I have to repeat myself.. Obito had just seen his best friend kill his love interest at the time who was being used by another village for their personal gain.. the ones who are responsible for it are there. Being an Uchiha who are highly emotional he attacks and kills them in cold blood.. you think after murdering that many people that someone especially an Uchiha are going to be the same sane person again.. that's doubtful my friend not to mention he was manipulated by Madara into creating an ideal world for both of them by then he was brainwashed so why would he doubt his actions? That wouldn't make sense at all.

Madara was dead, he could’ve left and dedicated the rest of his life to doing anything, however he made the choice to go through with ending this world in favor of a new one (If that's even still the plan).
Read above Anyways whats makes you doubt that its not his plan anymore?

Now these are few ideas off the top of my head that I thew together, but here's some examples of how Kishi could've tugged on our emotions (I'll write more later):

- Obito knew exactly when he "needed" to attack the village - It's literally a ticking clock scenario (classic tension builder)

- Have him mentally grappling with horrendous acts that he knows he has to commit.
Me:He was brainwashed already and was intent on pursuing his goal now.. why would he do that?

- There's no doubt he knew that he had to face Minato, a man he deeply respected, and that he probably viewed as a second father, show that troubling him.
Me:As Obito stated he didn't care about this reality so why?

- Minato's no push over either, his skills were revered throughout the ninja world, maybe show him training to fight against him physically and mentally.
Me:I can maybe agree on this one but train how? Madara already taught him what was necessary.. besides we don't need to see every detail of what he did.. we didn't see Sasuke train much during the timeskip no? People would complain about it too and it would prolong the manga when Kishi intends to finish it soon. We did see Obito train a little during the flashback with Madara and that is all we need. Even a mention could be suffice.. if we go the way you're going this manga would take along time to finish.

- To release Kurama, he knew that he would have to kill Kushina (who I'm certain he's met and spent time with in the past). Have him recall the first time he was introduced to her. Show her smiling, and laughing with Minato, Rin, and Kakashi. Let those memories eat him up from the inside out - But SHOW IT.
Me:I haven't recalled Obito meeting Kushina or recall any reference that they did so this would seem far fetched but if they did then yeah you could have a point but then again recall what I said above.

- We know Zetsu was around, show Obito watching the village and his friends from afar, have him poke up from the ground to offer up some words of "wisdom" to egg him on.
Me:I can agree with this

- Maybe have Obito's conviction to go through with the plan begin to falter and Boom!
Meeople would complain so much about that because they want a villain who isn't what they refer to "talk no jutsu'd" they want a villain who won't fall to the hero's words.. people would still be complaining about it

- Blind side him again. Have him on the verge of returning back to the village, and set in motion another trigger to push him over the edge and proceed forward with the attack. (Have Zetsu be responsible for setting whatever it is in motion to spur him on).
Me:I can agree to an extent with this one

I'm certain another flashback is on the way soon to correct that, but it missed its mark, we'll get the information, but it'll most likely be more about his decision to deviate from Madara's original plan, and reveal his own (it won't have the same emotional impact, but there was room for both).
Me:We'll have to wait and see because like Madara his story is not completed.

Alright now that I'm done with countering your posts do you see what I mean? It's a matter of opinion yours isn't the best. No matter how you want it to be there is going to be people like us debating over what they do or don't like. Well this wasn't even the topic of my thread but I guess I asked for it. This isn't about a competition of who has the best backstory.

Lmao don't freaking make me laugh with the last part.. I'm not going to bother elaborating on that because anyone who isn't an idiot wouldn't use that comparison.

I used that comparison, that makes me an idiot then right? so you called me an idiot indirectly and a moron directly. I'm not even reading the rest of whatever you got to say if this is the type of person you are, why post a thread or even talk to people on the internet if you're this hot headed? let your guard down fanboy, dont ruin your day over an anime character

Yeah because you think its bad to compare obito's backstory with Sasuke, Itachi and Madara but its bad enough for sakura to be compared as well? Oh sorry I'm so hot headed because I said idiot or moron.. oh gee. Yeah I'm just going to be depressed and be mad at everyone because of a fictional character. Geez I'm also a fanboy because Obito is the best ever right? I've been telling everyone to go with my opinion.

Now seriously like I said you can have your opinions and if you don't like Obito that is not my problem.. as I've said this is merely to clear up misconceptions and have people take things into consideration they didnt do before. You and b7718 revolve way too much on only his descent to the darkness but ignore anything before that Kakashi gaiden and the flashbacks afterwards.

 

[b7718]

And yes i agree that these types of flashback would definetly improve obito's story, I totally forgot about the fact that the dude was gna fight his own teacher, attack his own village etc. BUT, dont you think it would be a little late to show these flasbacks now? I mean, kishi had the chance to do this when kakashi saw obito was tobi, or with these madara & obito flashbacks, maybe even now when minato encountered him? Maybe he didnt show them cus we've already been seeing a lot of flashbacks, but when he fought kakashi, or when he was taking control of the juubi inside him, there was time to show us some more, and instead of showing us these new information type of flashbacks, he showed us some about how he remembers his team (So he actually liked his team but had no problem fighting his teacher..)

Oh yeah... It could've been great for his polls. He could have a moment of redemption and touches down on something like that before he dies, but it would just be sad.

 

[Murasame]

Oh yeah... It could've been great for his polls. He could have a moment of redemption and touches down on something like that before he dies, but it would just be sad.

Well did you see my counter?

 

[b7718]

Me:Well we didn't know Tobi was Obito majority of the show correct? So tell me how are we going to get connected to Obito the same as we did with Itachi and Sasuke in suhc a short time? They both had plenty of time for development and whatnot. He is the same as Madara.. his events are still ongoing so please stop with your nonsense.

- Biju Naruto


- But we did get Kakashi Chronicles, we got to know Obito's character a bit.

- There weren't to many gripes with Tobi, his character held your attention for the most part.

- And now we get the reveal! (Tobi is Obito the fans go WTF! How?)

- We get a flashback. (Kishi Really needs to legitimize Tobi's true identity at this point. He really needed to pull this off right, the fans kinda need a pretty solid explanation to sell its believability. Obito was crushed by boulders, they saw it happen. Not to mention his character was fine as it was, his death served a purpose, it turned Kakashi into the man we all know today, he passed on those lessons to Naruto. Some hard questions need to be answered here, otherwise the fans are calling shenanigans.)

- Rather then giving a decent explanation as to how he survived we got: "It looked like you slipped through the rocks (With a 2 tomoe Sharingan) explanation".

- Believe it or not, fans called bull**** (The believability of Tobi being Obito doesn't sit well with fans)

I don't need to go on, the starting point was the flashback. That was when we needed to connect.

If you wanted people to connect with Obito, You first needed a solid explanation as to how Obito could have survived to become Tobi. they didn't do that so people's suspension of disbelief was broken almost immediately into the flashback, there for all information from there on out was tainted with discontent.


- By the way, pretty much everyone thought Itachi was bad guy, we didn't get to know him until his flashback. - Much like Obito, Itachi was wearing a mask throughout most of the series as well.

- When Itachi finally took that mask off it enhanced his character.


This may be a while haha. Still have to go through the rest of it.

 

[b7718]

Me:Again you you're thinking on the simple side there's more to it so please don't make repeat myself.. I explained this multiple times.

Nope, certainly don't need that. For some reason, you just don't seem to grasp the concept that I understand perfectly well what happened. - It wasn't effective. It could've worked out great, but it didn't.

 

[Murasame]

- Biju Naruto


- But we did get Kakashi Chronicles, we got to know Obito's character a bit.

- There weren't to many gripes with Tobi, his character held your attention for the most part.

- And now we get the reveal! (Tobi is Obito the fans go WTF! How?)

- We get a flashback. (Kishi Really needs to legitimize Tobi's true identity at this point. He really needed to pull this off right, the fans kinda need a pretty solid explanation to sell its believability. Obito was crushed by boulders, they saw it happen. Not to mention his character was fine as it was, his death served a purpose, it turned Kakashi into the man we all know today, he passed on those lessons to Naruto. Some hard questions need to be answered here, otherwise the fans are calling shenanigans.)

- Rather then giving a decent explanation as to how he survived we got: "It looked like you slipped through the rocks (With a 2 tomoe Sharingan) explanation".

- Believe it or not, fans called bull**** (The believability of Tobi being Obito doesn't sit well with fans)

I don't need to go on, the starting point was the flashback. That was when we needed to connect.

If you wanted people to connect with Obito, You first needed a solid explanation as to how Obito could have survived to become Tobi. they didn't do that so people's suspension of disbelief was broken almost immediately into the flashback, there for all information from there on out was tainted with discontent.


- By the way, pretty much everyone thought Itachi was bad guy, we didn't get to know him until his flashback. - Much like Obito, was wearing a mask throughout most of the series as well.

- When Itachi finally took that mask off it enhanced his character.


This may be a while haha. Still have to go through the rest of it.

Yes we got to know him before the whole descent to darkness.. after that not much was known about him until Obito's reveal.

Yesh because he had this mystique about him and a lot of people debated of who he really was or what not.. thats why he was an exciting character or atleast interesting.. some people are just mad because the choice they picked for Tobi wasn't true.

I will admit it didn't really look as believable but what can you do about it.. If it's what Kishi intended then its true. You can't argue with it besides he still would've died if Madara hadn't shown up to save him.

I'll look into that but yeah when I read it didn't sound believable to me either.

True but it didn't affect everyone's opinion as you're overexaggerating... I still and will like Obito for who he is.. I won't dislike him because of what you or anyone has to say it will be of my own accord. Anyways you can say everything you want but it won't change nothing because at the end of the day you're merely stating opinions while I go with the manga.

And even then there are people who don't believe it. Like I told you earlier everyone has their views/opinions about certain thins. I'll link you to a thread about Itachi being evil even when its shown he is a good guy.. this goes to show what I said previously is true.

 

[b7718]

Me:Not really because some people would complain about it and say "is he even a true villan" or "he might get talk no jutsu'd in the future"..

- this will do fine.

- No, true Villains are boring. People love tragic Villains, they crave them. It gives the villain depth. Tragedy breeds character, and nearly ever Villain in the series has a painful past, we identify with their vulnerability.

- He's going to get talk no jutsu'd no matter what, we might as well like the guy in the mean time.

Now to counter this yet again I have to repeat myself.. Obito had just seen his best friend kill his love interest at the time who was being used by another village for their personal gain.. the ones who are responsible for it are there. Being an Uchiha who are highly emotional he attacks and kills them in cold blood.. you think after murdering that many people that someone especially an Uchiha are going to be the same sane person again.. that's doubtful my friend not to mention he was manipulated by Madara into creating an ideal world for both of them by then he was brainwashed so why would he doubt his actions? That wouldn't make sense at all.

- Yep... I’m privy to the sensitive nature of the Uchiha’s PMS Bloodline. (should sound familiar)

- Would he be the same, No. But I’m not the same person I was yesterday either. He's a ninja though, he has killed before so it shouldn’t be “Oh my god I just took a life” traumatizing, but it would certainly have some scaring effects.

- What we saw was an outburst of rage when he went ape and killed those (Cloud?) ninja's , I would have liked to see his decent into darkness. Him actually getting over murdering anyone, maybe show him killing innocent people and wrestling with it, then show him doing it again and it doesn’t bother him.


There are ways to make it work, it was a poor presentation C-

 

[b7718]

Read above Anyways whats makes you doubt that its not his plan anymore?

You never reveal your true plan until your in a position to carry it out, until then it's misdirection all the way.

 

[b7718]

Me:He was brainwashed already and was intent on pursuing his goal now.. why would he do that?

He had no free will power whatsoever? - If that's the case, it wasn't established.

 

[b7718]

Me:I haven't recalled Obito meeting Kushina or recall any reference that they did so this would seem far fetched but if they did then yeah you could have a point but then again recall what I said above.

- It was established that Minato and Kushina became an item after he rescued her as a child.

- Since Obito is younger then Minato, it's pretty safe to say she was around, and seeing Minato. - It's completely reasonable to speculate that Minato (Their sensei) introduced his students at some point to his ninja wife. - It could've (and in my opinion should've) happened.

 

[b7718]

- There's no doubt he knew that he had to face Minato, a man he deeply respected, and that he probably viewed as a second father, show that troubling him.

Me:As Obito stated he didn't care about this reality so why?

- Yeah, he said that, do you mean everything you say? I also remember a photo of Obito, Minato, Rin and Kakashi in his mind few chapters back too.

- Showing an internal struggle would've made him more "real". It goes back to a decent into darkness.

 

[b7718]

Alright now that I'm done with countering your posts do you see what I mean? It's a matter of opinion yours isn't the best. No matter how you want it to be there is going to be people like us debating over what they do or don't like. Well this wasn't even the topic of my thread but I guess I asked for it. This isn't about a competition of who has the best backstory.

What did you counter? You agreed with a bunch examples of mine that I came up with during my lunch break that would've improved peoples perception of Obito.


If anything you should've taken away that the progression of Obito's character development could've been presented better.

 

[Murasame]

- this will do fine.

- No, true Villains are boring. People love tragic Villains, they crave them. It gives the villain depth. Tragedy breeds character, and nearly ever Villain in the series has a painful past, we identify with their vulnerability.

- He's going to get talk no jutsu'd no matter what, we might as well like the guy in the mean time.





- Yep... I’m privy to the sensitive nature of the Uchiha’s PMS Bloodline. (should sound familiar)

- Would he be the same, No. But I’m not the same person I was yesterday either. He's a ninja though, he has killed before so it shouldn’t be “Oh my god I just took a life” traumatizing, but it would certainly have some scaring effects.

- What we saw was an outburst of rage when he went ape and killed those (Cloud?) ninja's , I would have liked to see his decent into darkness. Him actually getting over murdering anyone, maybe show him killing innocent people and wrestling with it, then show him doing it again and it doesn’t bother him.


There are ways to make it work, it was a poor presentation C-

Multi posting is against the rules just letting you know.

Again you act like that you speak for everyone and I have said that not everyone shares the same views as you... this is what you think! I'm satisfied with the way he is. You try too hard to force your opinions on others and that is not right.. I've looked at all your posts concerning Obito and its quite obvious that you hate Obito as if he was someone that did something bad to you in real life. You act like you are superior and your opinion is fact.. you don't like it when others actually like Obito and belittle them. Anyways tell how your statement is fact? People have different tastes and thats what you fail to grasp.

Ok "Kishimito".. we'll have to wait and see whether he is talk no jutsu'd or not. This another example where you make your opinion look like it's a fact.

"Would he be the same, No. But I’m not the same person I was yesterday either. He's a ninja though, he has killed before so it shouldn’t be “Oh my god I just took a life” traumatizing, but it would certainly have some scaring effects."

Fail comparison of course you change everyday but how does translate to Obito's situation? There is different levels to this and the comparison you used isn't compatible to it. Yes he is a ninja and he has to kill but does he kill in cold blood? No and thats what separates this incident from the others.

That was all displayed against the cloud ninja and there are other multiple occasions where he shows it.. attempting to kill Minato, Kakashi, and Gai who were people he was acquainted with before.

You never reveal your true plan until your in a position to carry it out, until then it's misdirection all the way.

Is there a rule for this? No I don't think so.. Besides there was going to be a war regardless.

He had no free will power whatsoever? - If that's the case, it wasn't established.

It's what he wants to do.. Madara manipulated him into believing it but he still didn't need to follow Madara's path.. besides he was convinced once he also saw how cruel the ninja world and system was.

- It was established that Minato and Kushina became an item after he rescued her as a child.

- Since Obito is younger then Minato, it's pretty safe to say she was around, and seeing Minato. - It's completely reasonable to speculate that Minato (Their sensei) introduced his students at some point to his ninja wife. - It could've (and in my opinion should've) happened.

Well it wasn't elaborated on so its speculation at best... Otherwise in the flashback he would've said something about her like he did with Minato and Kakashi. If it is though this is one of the points of yours I can agree with. Also its not like Obito had to have a special relationship with Kushina.

- Yeah, he said that, do you mean everything you say? I also remember a photo of Obito, Minato, Rin and Kakashi in his mind few chapters back too.

- Showing an internal struggle would've made him more "real". It goes back to a decent into darkness.

It can be interpreted in different ways.. it can mean he still has feelings about them and is struggling internally or it can mean that he just used them as motivation because he wants them together again in the dream world.. seeing as how he ripped Minato's arm off casually and sticked that Bijuu dama ball to him to wipe out naruto ,sasuke, and minato afterwards shows other wise. If either one is correct though it goes against you anyways since you say he needs internal struggles.

What did you counter? You agreed with a bunch examples of mine that I came up with during my lunch break that would've improved peoples perception of Obito.

I agreed with like 2-3 points not with everyone of them.

 

[b7718]

Well did you see my counter?

From your loaded poll? Seriously?

I'm one of those guys who doesn't give a damn what the popular opinion is. The Nazi party was pretty popular in Germany at one time, In America the majority believed at one point in time that women shouldn't be able to vote either. I don't think I need to continue.