Nagato (KidGamer65) vs Kabuto (Prince Charles)

KidGamer65

Active member
Supreme
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
38,776
Kin
8💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
I don't think non-living was ever stated. If so, manga page pls? I thought it was immobile states in the environment.


Non living.

Would it work on broken tree pieces, then? As in, branches that fell of?
The name (Inorganic Reincarnation) suggests that it can only control inorganic things, but Kabuto's explanation simply says non living.
 

Prince Charles

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
12,456
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
The Serpant King~
You must be registered for see images


Man this yo boy prince charles in da mutha fukin house! do I really have to say it?
You must be registered for see images


Let me break it down. Their is different scenario's for this fight as it can start off. In all actuality Nagato will start off by summoning his summons. Cebrus[ ] Rinnegan bird[ ], you know his most common summons. Dsm kabuto has already shown ways to get around his summons by using Manda 2
You must be registered for see images


You must be registered for see images


The scan is pretty self explanatory. Manda 2 with his new enhancements would be more than capable of dealing with his summons as Kabuto goes at the main targets which is Nagato.

~Combating the shared vision between Nagato and his summons~
Let's consider the possibility of Kabuto not summoning Manda 2, many think he will be left vulnerable to the shared vision between Nagato and his summons but he has ways to combat them.

Kabuto has already shown the ability to turn himself into liquid to point where he can make small entities of himself[ ] which will not only confuse Nagato at the slightest but his summons will have no time to react to let nagato know where kabuto may be coming. Nagato is indeed a sensor but at the very least even him will still have trouble.

~Kabuto goes on the offensive~

Starting off Kabuto will use white to make Nagato vulnerable[ ]. This is also an effective counter in regards to Nagato summons. Anyways once White rage is activated Nagato will seem helpless as sasuke and itachi were.
You must be registered for see images

Not only will his vision also become effected but he will eventually become paralyzed which will make him a victim kabuto's and get his body cut in half or simply decapitated.

Now lets say for the sake of Nagato he is capable of clapping his hands together and does a Shrinei tensei hoping to cause damage to kabuto. Not only is this negated due to kabuto's regeneration abilities[ ] but in worst case scenario he will miss kabuto due to white rage impairing his vision as Itachi noted.

Counter to Chibaku tensei
will be a reliable counter to Chibaku tensei. Kabuto can use this opportunity to reach chibaku tensei and simply manipulate the earth compound surrounding the Orb and potentially re guide it back at nagato. universal pull gets countered by kabuto using the body shedding technique at his disposal.

This is my introduction. It should be noted that Im horrible when it comes to openings, im more of a counter type of guy so my opening usually suck so bear with it.



 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Penguin

KidGamer65

Active member
Supreme
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
38,776
Kin
8💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
The Serpant King~
You must be registered for see images


Man this yo boy prince charles in da mutha fukin house! do I really have to say it?
You must be registered for see images


Let me break it down. Their is different scenario's for this fight as it can start off. In all actuality Nagato will start off by summoning his summons. Cebrus[ ] Rinnegan bird[ ], you know his most common summons. Dsm kabuto has already shown ways to get around his summons by using Manda 2
You must be registered for see images


You must be registered for see images


The scan is pretty self explanatory. Manda 2 with his new enhancements would be more than capable of dealing with his summons as Kabuto goes at the main targets which is Nagato.

~Combating the shared vision between Nagato and his summons~
Let's consider the possibility of Kabuto not summoning Manda 2, many think he will be left vulnerable to the shared vision between Nagato and his summons but he has ways to combat them.

Cerberus can't be permanently downed by physical attacks as Nagato explains. So this would be able to keep Manda II busy as Nagato handles Kabuto since none of his summons can't really finish Manda II off.


Kabuto has already shown the ability to turn himself into liquid to point where he can make small entities of himself[ ] which will not only confuse Nagato at the slightest but his summons will have no time to react to let nagato know where kabuto may be coming. Nagato is indeed a sensor but at the very least even him will still have trouble.
Since he has Shared Vision, his summons won't need to alert him as he can see everything they see along with what he sees. Add this on top of his sensing, and the chances of Kabuto blind siding him or slim to none. Allowing Nagato to react and counter via an Asura attack.


~Kabuto goes on the offensive~

Starting off Kabuto will use white to make Nagato vulnerable[ ]. This is also an effective counter in regards to Nagato summons. Anyways once White rage is activated Nagato will seem helpless as sasuke and itachi were.
You must be registered for see images

Not only will his vision also become effected but he will eventually become paralyzed which will make him a victim kabuto's and get his body cut in half or simply decapitated.
As Nagato as full knowledge on Kabuto, he'll be able to counter/evade White Rage before it goes off.

-He can use Asura Path's to escape to the far end of the crater to escape its area of effect. I'd also like to note that it won't be as effective in an open space as it was in the cave due to the cave being a closed space, allowing the sound vibrations and light to bounce of the walls of the cave thus amplifying the effect. Not to mention there is nowhere to run in a closed space.

-He can destroy the dragon and the orb before the dragon the via Asura's various projectiles.





-He can blow the whole thing away along with Kabuto via his basic Shinra Tensei that is

Even if Nagato is caught in White Rage, it won't stop him from using his jutsu. It only prevents jutsu that That being said, his let him figure out where Kabuto is coming from and when he is close to him, allowing him to counter with a Shinra Tensei to blow him and the orb away. Saving Nagato from Kabuto and cancelling the effects of White Rage.

Now lets say for the sake of Nagato he is capable of clapping his hands together and does a Shrinei tensei hoping to cause damage to kabuto. Not only is this negated due to kabuto's regeneration abilities[ ] but in worst case scenario he will miss kabuto due to white rage impairing his vision as Itachi noted.
Vision won't be necessary for Nagato to hit Kabuto with Shinra Tensei as explained above. Though I do agree that it won't do any serious damage to him.


Counter to Chibaku tensei
will be a reliable counter to Chibaku tensei. Kabuto can use this opportunity to reach chibaku tensei and simply manipulate the earth compound surrounding the Orb and potentially re guide it back at nagato. universal pull gets countered by kabuto using the body shedding technique at his disposal.

This is my introduction. It should be noted that Im horrible when it comes to openings, im more of a counter type of guy so my opening usually suck so bear with it.
Muki Tensei is not a valid counter for Chibaku Tensei. As we already know Chibaku Tensei drags rocks, debris, and people up to its core until it reaches its max size or until Nagato stops it.

-To do what you say he can do. He'd have to be able to touch the orb with his hands as he did in the cave, and infuse his life force into it to take control of it. That's going to be pretty hard if not impossible to do, when he's being smashed against the rock by other large rocks. He'd have to liquefy to survive, but he can't use Muki Tensei in that state.

-The gravitational pull of CT wouldn't even allow him to get the rocks away from the orb to begin with, so this fact alone leaves Kabuto's attempt to counter via Muki Tensei in vain.

Nagato has two sure fire ways to finish Kabuto off.

-Chibaku Tensei, which will drag him up and encase him within the rock.

-Gedo Mazo's Soul Dragon, Hanzo needed to Though using this would pretty much mean Nagato is finished for the remainder of the fight, so this is only to be used if he manages to get around Chibaku Tensei. (Which he can't)

Tayuya's Genjutsu, another big threat, can be broken via the Chakra Disruption Blades that Nagato wields, which do as the name implies. Disrupts the chakra of the person who is stabbed by it. Or he can inflict pain on himself via Asura limbs, as the Genjutsu would paralyze his body, but not the extra mechanical limbs he can make after he has been paralyzed.

All in all. Nagato has this in the bag.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Penguin and stoikis

Prince Charles

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
12,456
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
I was almost finished with my counter but my aunt asked to use my laptop for skype so currently im using my phone now. Ill finish my counter wen shes done using my laptop.
 

Prince Charles

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
12,456
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Cerberus can't be permanently downed by physical attacks as Nagato explains. So this would be able to keep Manda II busy as Nagato handles Kabuto since none of his summons can't really finish Manda II off.
This isnt about physical attacks this is about restraining Cerberus as Manda has displayed against Turtle island[ ]. Manda being a snake also plays a factor here when we take into consideration him having potential venom which could Paralyze Cererbus.

Since he has Shared Vision, his summons won't need to alert him as he can see everything they see along with what he sees. Add this on top of his sensing, and the chances of Kabuto blind siding him or slim to none. Allowing Nagato to react and counter via an Asura attack.
You took what I said the wrong way, I didn't mean his summons actually alert him but rather they are the fundamental behind his shared vision. After they get taken care of by Manda 2 Nagato's shared vision will be limited. Nagato's sensing will not be effective while in white rage due to him not being able to focus correctly, as sasuke displayed he said My Ears.. I feel that my bones are rubbing against...! each other[ ]. Taking white rage into consideration and its side effects, Nagato sensing will not be as strong due to white rage.

He can use Asura Path's to escape to the far end of the crater to escape its area of effect. I'd also like to note that it won't be as effective in an open space as it was in the cave due to the cave being a closed space, allowing the sound vibrations and light to bounce of the walls of the cave thus amplifying the effect. Not to mention there is nowhere to run in a closed space.
Using chakra propulsion is a reliable counter but you're not taking into factor of the white rage dragon following after Nagato. We clearly see it going towards the desired target of Kabuto's Demand[ ]. Also it's very questionable that he will even be capable of getting away in time before the radius of the white rage catches him.

Closed space or not doesnt make it any less powerful. Also It's very questionable if the cave was totally closed off. We clearly see a hole behind itachi and sauske in the cave[ ]. Now I will admit the very likely the cave got blocked off due to the rubble but it's still noteworthy. Either way the white rage will still have a toll on his body.

He can destroy the dragon and the orb before the dragon the via Asura's various projectiles.
Except your not taking into factor of those high destructive projectiles from nagato may also damage him due to the blast radius. The smartest option would be for him to expand his fist[ ]. But even then im still doubtful it would destroy the dragon and the orb. If you analyze the white rage dragon it clearly has a liquid like state which puts into question of the projectiles simply phasing right through it.

He can blow the whole thing away along with Kabuto via his basic Shinra Tensei that is
Read the above post regarding the characteristics of the dragon and its liquid like state.

Even if Nagato is caught in White Rage, it won't stop him from using his jutsu. It only prevents jutsu that That being said, his let him figure out where Kabuto is coming from and when he is close to him, allowing him to counter with a Shinra Tensei to blow him and the orb away. Saving Nagato from Kabuto and cancelling the effects of White Rage.
I honestly don't know how you came to the conclusion that he would still be capable of Properly sensing Kabuto when white rage is actives.. It's strain on the victims body is simply too great while maintaining to sense kabuto. I get what you're saying but I find it very unlikely he will be capable of sensing kabuto while in the white rage.

Muki Tensei is not a valid counter for Chibaku Tensei. As we already know Chibaku Tensei drags rocks, debris, and people up to its core until it reaches its max size or until Nagato stops it.
Obviously you dont understand the strategy that kabuto will pull here against CT. Very much like itachi pointed out the gravitational force will pull their attack in to the orb.
You must be registered for see images


But instead this time kabuto will use the gravitational force was a means of transportation to reach the mass of orb formed into a circle and manipulate it to his liking.

Scenario 1 - he uses Muki tensei on the mass rubble to form spikes similar to what he did to Itachi and sasuke but on a much larger scale to deflect off and defend against the other rubble coming towards him.

Scenario 2 - he uses Muki tensei (Theory) to somehow make the mass of rubble move way on it's own.

Scenario 3( most probable and legit counter to Muki tensei)- As soon as he notices Nagato throw up the black orb for CT he immediately actives his Body flame technique which would safely get him away from CT.
You must be registered for see images


To do what you say he can do. He'd have to be able to touch the orb with his hands as he did in the cave, and infuse his life force into it to take control of it. That's going to be pretty hard if not impossible to do, when he's being smashed against the rock by other large rocks. He'd have to liquefy to survive, but he can't use Muki Tensei in that state.
Read above I already gave possible scenarios and and legit ways to counter CT. Scenario 3 as I said is the most probable.

The gravitational pull of CT wouldn't even allow him to get the rocks away from the orb to begin with, so this fact alone leaves Kabuto's attempt to counter via Muki Tensei in vain.
Once again read above

Nagato has two sure fire ways to finish Kabuto off.

-Chibaku Tensei, which will drag him up and encase him within the rock.

-Gedo Mazo's Soul Dragon, Hanzo needed to Though using this would pretty much mean Nagato is finished for the remainder of the fight, so this is only to be used if he manages to get around Chibaku Tensei. (Which he can't)

Tayuya's Genjutsu, another big threat, can be broken via the Chakra Disruption Blades that Nagato wields, which do as the name implies. Disrupts the chakra of the person who is stabbed by it. Or he can inflict pain on himself via Asura limbs, as the Genjutsu would paralyze his body, but not the extra mechanical limbs he can make after he has been paralyzed.

All in all. Nagato has this in the bag.


Already gave a explanation to CT.

Gedo Mazo's Soul Dragon, Hanzo needed to Though using this would pretty much mean Nagato is finished for the remainder of the fight, so this is only to be used if he manages to get around Chibaku Tensei. (Which he can't)
While I admit the dragon has soul-ghost like characteristics it should be noted that he did indeed smash into the ground making physical contact. Worse case scenario Kabuto will have to use Muki tensei as a means to put up a barrier around himself to guard against the soul dragon. After that Manda 2 could restrain the Gedo for a period of time until Kabuto finishes off Nagato and the Gedo will disappear.

The only way Nagato is winning this is by Gedo because physical attacks will have no effect on him.

Possible counter to Gedo soul dragon

A very legit counter I see from kabuto regarding the soul dragon would be to turn himself into liquid.
You must be registered for see images


As you can see during the itachi and sasuke fight he can turn his body into liquid. I highly doubt the soul dragon can still take his soul while his body is non existent and is simply liquid.

Tayuya's Genjutsu, another big threat, can be broken via the Chakra Disruption Blades that Nagato wields, which do as the name implies. Disrupts the chakra of the person who is stabbed by it. Or he can inflict pain on himself via Asura limbs, as the Genjutsu would paralyze his body, but not the extra mechanical limbs he can make after he has been paralyzed.
I pretty much agree on this. But Theirs always the matter of kabutos different form of genjutsu displayed in part 1. He is able to put people to people to sleep with his genjutsu demonstrated in the chunin exams.

Here we see kabuto activate the genjutsu
You must be registered for see images


Then we see feathers fall putting people to sleep
You must be registered for see images


Now I will admit the technique was amplified by other ninja due to it being a large crowd but never the less this is a dsm kabuto now so the technique should be much more powerful then it was in part 1. And yes I will also admit guy and kakashi and sakura were capable of breaking it using genjutsu deflection but this is a heated battle so Nagato may not be able to cancel the genjutsu before he falls asleep which will leave him to getting decapitated on the spot

Kabuto takes this high diff.

If you still have the balls to debate against me then I have one manga panel to express myself
You must be registered for see images
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Icelerate

Transcendence

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Jan 11, 2013
Messages
11,636
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Good luck to both debaters. I've analyzed this match-up multiple times, and have come to the conclusion that in a cave Kabuto wins, but without a cave, Nagato takes this. Nevertheless, good luck once more.
 

KidGamer65

Active member
Supreme
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
38,776
Kin
8💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
This isnt about physical attacks this is about restraining Cerberus as Manda has displayed against Turtle island[ ]. Manda being a snake also plays a factor here when we take into consideration him having potential venom which could Paralyze Cererbus.
Agreed with the venom part.


You took what I said the wrong way, I didn't mean his summons actually alert him but rather they are the fundamental behind his shared vision. After they get taken care of by Manda 2 Nagato's shared vision will be limited. Nagato's sensing will not be effective while in white rage due to him not being able to focus correctly, as sasuke displayed he said My Ears.. I feel that my bones are rubbing against...! each other[ ]. Taking white rage into consideration and its side effects, Nagato sensing will not be as strong due to white rage.
As Sasuke also said, it only impairs their ability to use techniques that require constant concentration. Sensing doesn't require constant concentration so White Rage wouldn't impair it at all. There's also the fact that Itachi managed to hold up Susanoo even when White Rage was active.

Using chakra propulsion is a reliable counter but you're not taking into factor of the white rage dragon following after Nagato. We clearly see it going towards the desired target of Kabuto's Demand[ ]. Also it's very questionable that he will even be capable of getting away in time before the radius of the white rage catches him.
Actually, it fired off, then stopped and started to coil around the orb. Next panel we see Itachi running to get closer to Sasuke. With full knowledge on that starting distance. Its likely he'll never even get that close to Kabuto in the first place which makes it more likely for him not to be caught in White Rage's Area of effect.

Closed space or not doesnt make it any less powerful. Also It's very questionable if the cave was totally closed off. We clearly see a hole behind itachi and sauske in the cave[ ]. Now I will admit the very likely the cave got blocked off due to the rubble but it's still noteworthy. Either way the white rage will still have a toll on his body.
That's where you're wrong. The closed space of the cave walls allow the Sound and Light waves to bounce off the nearby walls, which in turn amplifies the effect. The hole behind them was too small to change the fact that the rest of the cave they were in was closed off, meaning the Sound and Light waves bounce off of each other and become amplified. In this outside area, the Sound and Light waves will do no such thing and will be spread out a large distance all over the place, making the effect weaker.

Except your not taking into factor of those high destructive projectiles from nagato may also damage him due to the blast radius. The smartest option would be for him to expand his fist[ ]. But even then im still doubtful it would destroy the dragon and the orb. If you analyze the white rage dragon it clearly has a liquid like state which puts into question of the projectiles simply phasing right through it.
If he fires a projectile at the thing. The damage will only be in front of him, there is no way he'd get caught in the blast when he is in this open area.

That could be anything, not just liquid. For example it could be plasma, but regardless. It being liquid won't stop explosives from blowing it away or destabilizing its form or something of the like. As seen when Suigetsu got hit by Bijuu Dama.

Don't forget he has a , just like Bijuu Dama. So even if it is liquid (Which I doubt) it'll get blown away which saves Nagato.

Read the above post regarding the characteristics of the dragon and its liquid like state.
It being liquid won't stop it from being pushed away via Shinra Tensei. Shinra Tensei is simply a repulsive force.

I honestly don't know how you came to the conclusion that he would still be capable of Properly sensing Kabuto when white rage is actives.. It's strain on the victims body is simply too great while maintaining to sense kabuto. I get what you're saying but I find it very unlikely he will be capable of sensing kabuto while in the white rage.
I don't know how you came to the conclusion that he wouldn't be able to sense him or that his sensing would be impaired. When sensing doesn't require concentration to be active. It only requires you to be Something Nagato will clearly be doing when he is in battle. So sensing really doesn't require concentration and focus.


Obviously you dont understand the strategy that kabuto will pull here against CT. Very much like itachi pointed out the gravitational force will pull their attack in to the orb.
You must be registered for see images


But instead this time kabuto will use the gravitational force was a means of transportation to reach the mass of orb formed into a circle and manipulate it to his liking.

Scenario 1 - he uses Muki tensei on the mass rubble to form spikes similar to what he did to Itachi and sasuke but on a much larger scale to deflect off and defend against the other rubble coming towards him.

Scenario 2 - he uses Muki tensei (Theory) to somehow make the mass of rubble move way on it's own.

Scenario 3( most probable and legit counter to Muki tensei)- As soon as he notices Nagato throw up the black orb for CT he immediately actives his Body flame technique which would safely get him away from CT.
You must be registered for see images
Scenario 1 Counter: He'd be pulling up large rocks, debris from the destroyed Konoha village, and the rocks on the Hokage Mountain. At the end of the day, the spikes he formed are made from ordinary rocks. They would be completely crushed by the incoming rubble, they wouldn't deflect any rubble coming towards him and the orb.

Scenario 2 Counter: Impossible. Even if he took control the of the rocks. The black orb in the middle has too strong a gravitational pull. Regardless of Kabuto's wishes it would pull any rubble under his control to the center and it would keep it there.

Scenario 3 Counter: Where is he going to go? Chibaku Tensei's area of effect was larger than a whole Mountain Range. He has nowhere to run. Even if he finds a place to go. He'll eventually need to come back to fight Nagato (Unless he'd like to run away and forfeit, lol), so when he comes back. Nagato starts the gravitational pull once again. Note that he says

So I fail to see how this counter is legit.

Read above I already gave possible scenarios and and legit ways to counter CT. Scenario 3 as I said is the most probable.
Addressed.



Once again read above
Addressed.



Already gave a explanation to CT.
Adressed.

While I admit the dragon has soul-ghost like characteristics it should be noted that he did indeed smash into the ground making physical contact. Worse case scenario Kabuto will have to use Muki tensei as a means to put up a barrier around himself to guard against the soul dragon. After that Manda 2 could restrain the Gedo for a period of time until Kabuto finishes off Nagato and the Gedo will disappear.
I guess I can agree here. Though CT will end this so Gedo will never be used.

The only way Nagato is winning this is by Gedo because physical attacks will have no effect on him
.
Chibaku Tensei.

Possible counter to Gedo soul dragon

A very legit counter I see from kabuto regarding the soul dragon would be to turn himself into liquid.
You must be registered for see images


As you can see during the itachi and sasuke fight he can turn his body into liquid. I highly doubt the soul dragon can still take his soul while his body is non existent and is simply liquid.
I can't say that I disagree. Then again the Soul Dragon takes the soul of anything it makes contact with. Kabuto still has a soul even in liquid form. But the Muki Tensei counter is good though.

I pretty much agree on this. But Theirs always the matter of kabutos different form of genjutsu displayed in part 1. He is able to put people to people to sleep with his genjutsu demonstrated in the chunin exams.

Here we see kabuto activate the genjutsu
You must be registered for see images


Then we see feathers fall putting people to sleep
You must be registered for see images


Now I will admit the technique was amplified by other ninja due to it being a large crowd but never the less this is a dsm kabuto now so the technique should be much more powerful then it was in part 1. And yes I will also admit guy and kakashi and sakura were capable of breaking it using genjutsu deflection but this is a heated battle so Nagato may not be able to cancel the genjutsu before he falls asleep which will leave him to getting decapitated on the spot

Kabuto takes this high diff.

If you still have the balls to debate against me then I have one manga panel to express myself
You must be registered for see images
lol? Nagato mastered Yin Release at Age 10. (6 Nature Transformations refer to the 5 basic ones, and also Yin-Yang) Sage Mode may power up his Genjutsu but still, Sakura was able to break it in Part 1. Nagato, a Genjutsu master, who has mastered Yin Release ( ), along with his Chakra Disruption Blades, also coupled with the fact that a bunch of ninja already helped with that Genjutsu to amplify it. I don't see it being threat or a factor in this match.
 
Top