Ay vs Darui, Asuma, Temari, Kitsuchi and early part2 Kakashi

[genii96]

His lightening armour was not activated.

so what?,fuuton>raiton,it wouldnt help anyway

 

[iiDarui]

Kakashi isn't as fast as V1 Ay :|

Which means Darui is faster than Kakashi since Darui kept up with v1 Ei to simultaneously strike Sasuke. I agree to that. Chyeah. Darui is faster than Kakashi.

 

[EliteKakashi]

It's still a speculation however. Since he said it was his maximum speed we can obviously say that it was his V2.
It didn't nearly pierce his heart at all, he didn't even seem to be injured and he wasn't bleeding.
Though can you prove with canon facts that Chidori and Raikiri are different? Where does it say that they are two different techniques and that one is more powerful than the other?

I'm not convinced it was his v2, but oh well. I've posted everything I can to back up that point, I would just be getting redundant if I continued

As far as hitting Raikage, you can see

You must be registered for see links

it does pierce in to the skin a bit and there's a cut/small hole on Raikage's chest after Sasuke uses chidori. Two examples being

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

Here's what his chest looked like prior to being hit by chidori, no cut/hole.

You must be registered for see links

Raikiri is a more focused version of chidori, improving it's piercing ability. Raikiri is an s-ranked technique, as it requires more chakra control and is a more difficult version to use(where as chidori is an a-ranked technique). Note how Sasuke's chidori is more just a blob of lightning than it is a blade

You must be registered for see links

. Where as Kakashi's Raikiri(which translate to Lightning Blade) actually forms in to a blade

You must be registered for see links

.

Sasuke's chidori had issues piercing through Gaara's sand. Kakashi's raikiri pierced through v2 cloaks,

You must be registered for see links

 

[xxSasukEkUnxX]

I wouldn't waste my time arguing with him. He doesn't click on a single reference page, nor does he post any himself. He's either a troll or an alt of someone who came to piss people off.

 

[Murasame]

I'm not convinced it was his v2, but oh well. I've posted everything I can to back up that point, I would just be getting redundant if I continued

As far as hitting Raikage, you can see

You must be registered for see links

it does pierce in to the skin a bit and there's a cut/small hole on Raikage's chest after Sasuke uses chidori. Two examples being

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

Here's what his chest looked like prior to being hit by chidori, no cut/hole.

You must be registered for see links

Raikiri is a more focused version of chidori, improving it's piercing ability. Raikiri is an s-ranked technique, as it requires more chakra control and is a more difficult version to use(where as chidori is an a-ranked technique). Note how Sasuke's chidori is more just a blob of lightning than it is a blade

You must be registered for see links

. Where as Kakashi's Raikiri(which translate to Lightning Blade) actually forms in to a blade

You must be registered for see links

.

Sasuke's chidori had issues piercing through Gaara's sand. Kakashi's raikiri pierced through v2 cloaks,

You must be registered for see links

No doubt Kakashi can pierce and most likely kill Ay but that won't happen when Ay is in V2.. I see you're trying to make the argument "he won't go in v2 because he did this or that in the manga" well let me tell you something.. this isn't the manga.. its a hypothetical match up. Ay can use any of his tools that he is displayed so far so there is no reason to hold him back to give Kakashi a chance to win unless the OP restricts V2. Now since this is Kakashi from the beginning of Shippuden he can't risk using overusing Kamui too much other wise he'll tire himself out rather quickly or leave himself open to a lariat when he recuperating from the strain of kamui. Kakashi has no way to hurt Ay in v2 if he can't catch him I'm sorry.. he is just simply to fast. Also I see you say that Ay didn't use V2 in the Minato fight.. well how come he compared his full speed that time with the time he was facing Naruto? If that wasn't as fast as his speed vs Naruto he surely would've commented on it saying he has gotten faster than that time. He didn't so that was indeed V2 unless stated otherwise.

I wouldn't waste my time arguing with him. He doesn't click on a single reference page, nor does he post any himself. He's either a troll or an alt of someone who came to piss people off.

I've been watching this debate for a while and I don't see how he is trolling or trying to piss people off ._. He is correct on his points.. you try to use an outdated databook of Kakashi cutting through lightning Ay loses in this match up but if it was this version of Kakashi alone he'd lose.

 

[EliteKakashi]

No doubt Kakashi can pierce and most likely kill Ay but that won't happen when Ay is in V2.. I see you're trying to make the argument "he won't go in v2 because he did this or that in the manga" well let me tell you something.. this isn't the manga.. its a hypothetical match up. Ay can use any of his tools that he is displayed so far so there is no reason to hold him back to give Kakashi a chance to win unless the OP restricts V2. Now since this is Kakashi from the beginning of Shippuden he can't risk using overusing Kamui too much other wise he'll tire himself out rather quickly or leave himself open to a lariat when he recuperating from the strain of kamui. Kakashi has no way to hurt Ay in v2 if he can't catch him I'm sorry.. he is just simply to fast. Also I see you say that Ay didn't use V2 in the Minato fight.. well how come he compared his full speed that time with the time he was facing Naruto? If that wasn't as fast as his speed vs Naruto he surely would've commented on it saying he has gotten faster than that time. He didn't so that was indeed V2 unless stated otherwise.

The idea behind following a character's mindset is something that's been used in debates for as long as I can remember, in just about any kind of "battledome", whether it be about a manga, comic, or whatever else. As an example:

Stating Kakashi opens up with Kamui would not be in character for him, and is only something you could logically argue if the mindset was bloodlust.

Stating Kakashi would open up most fights with a bunshin feint in order to figure out his opponents abilities is logical under any mindset, as it's a trait of his character.

If that was v2 he used vs Minato, then he was much worse with it than when he used it against Sasuke, or kishi was just trying to jerk off Minato some more. The feats do not match up in the slightest, nor does his appearance.

I still don't understand people saying "I'm holding Ei back". I'm going off of what he's attempted in the manga, nothing more, nothing less. And I'm only saying in the hypothetical situation where he tries to strike Kakashi head on in v1. Nothing more, nothing less.

I've had people already try to turn that in to me saying Kakashi is as fast or faster than v1, or try to turn that in to me saying Kakashi can hit v2, or turn that in to me saying Kakashi would use kamui(Even though I've never even brought up Kakashi using kamui in this fight). My statement is quite simple and VERY clear, I don't know where the confusion has come from.

 

[xxSasukEkUnxX]

No doubt Kakashi can pierce and most likely kill Ay but that won't happen when Ay is in V2.. I see you're trying to make the argument "he won't go in v2 because he did this or that in the manga" well let me tell you something.. this isn't the manga.. its a hypothetical match up. Ay can use any of his tools that he is displayed so far so there is no reason to hold him back to give Kakashi a chance to win unless the OP restricts V2. Now since this is Kakashi from the beginning of Shippuden he can't risk using overusing Kamui too much other wise he'll tire himself out rather quickly or leave himself open to a lariat when he recuperating from the strain of kamui. Kakashi has no way to hurt Ay in v2 if he can't catch him I'm sorry.. he is just simply to fast. Also I see you say that Ay didn't use V2 in the Minato fight.. well how come he compared his full speed that time with the time he was facing Naruto? If that wasn't as fast as his speed vs Naruto he surely would've commented on it saying he has gotten faster than that time. He didn't so that was indeed V2 unless stated otherwise.

I've been watching this debate for a while and I don't see how he is trolling or trying to piss people off ._. He is correct on his points.. you try to use an outdated databook of Kakashi cutting through lightning Ay loses in this match up but if it was this version of Kakashi alone he'd lose.

Invalid. Guy stated so.

You must be registered for see images

 

[Murasame]

The idea behind following a character's mindset is something that's been used in debates for as long as I can remember, in just about any kind of "battledome", whether it be about a manga, comic, or whatever else. As an example:

Stating Kakashi opens up with Kamui would not be in character for him, and is only something you could logically argue if the mindset was bloodlust.

Stating Kakashi would open up most fights with a bunshin feint in order to figure out his opponents abilities is logical under any mindset, as it's a trait of his character.

If that was v2 he used vs Minato, then he was much worse with it than when he used it against Sasuke, or kishi was just trying to jerk off Minato some more. The feats do not match up in the slightest, nor does his appearance.

I still don't understand people saying "I'm holding Ei back". I'm going off of what he's attempted in the manga, nothing more, nothing less. And I'm only saying in the hypothetical situation where he tries to strike Kakashi head on in v1. Nothing more, nothing less.

I've had people already try to turn that in to me saying Kakashi is as fast or faster than v1, or try to turn that in to me saying Kakashi can hit v2, or turn that in to me saying Kakashi would use kamui(Even though I've never even brought up Kakashi using kamui in this fight). My statement is quite simple and VERY clear, I don't know where the confusion has come from.

All of that is correct and I know that.. why you explained to me is beyond me. I agreed with you on the point that he can pierce and probably kill Ay but while he is in V2 its useless to do so.. there is no point arguing in V1 now since Kakashi can definitely kill him while in that state hence why I switched over to V2. It seems you're the confused one here not me.. I understand where you're coming from but no where did I say that you mentioned Kamui I just covered these extra points just in case you mention them.. read carefully at what I'm saying in my post.

Again if Ay was worse at handling his speed before he would've mentioned it.. I don't know honestly why you're trying to come up with these assumptions of yours. That was V2 unless stated or hinted at otherwise.

edit: I like how you tried lecturing me to get off subject on the topic... if so then do you believe Ay> Early Part 2 Kakashi?

Invalid. Guy stated so.

You must be registered for see images

Its called hype.. and it hasn't been proven but has been dis proven since he barely reacted to Sasuke's arrows.. if he was that good he should get most of his opponents with Raikiri correct?

 

[EliteKakashi]

All of that is correct and I know that.. why you explained to me is beyond me. I agreed with you on the point that he can pierce and probably kill Ay but while he is in V2 its useless to do so.. there is no point arguing in V1 now since Kakashi can definitely kill him while in that state hence why I switched over to V2. It seems you're the confused one here not me.. I understand where you're coming from but no where did I say that you mentioned Kamui I just covered these extra points just in case you mention them.. read carefully at what I'm saying in my post.

Again if Ay was worse at handling his speed before he would've mentioned it.. I don't know honestly why you're trying to come up with these assumptions of yours. That was V2 unless stated or hinted at otherwise.

edit: I like how you tried lecturing me to get off subject on the topic... if so then do you believe Ay> Early Part 2 Kakashi

The last part of the post wasn't directed at you, but most others in this thread.

And it doesn't match up with his v2 feats. I don't believe it is his v2, or at least not at the same level as the v2 he used vs Sasuke. Sasuke couldn't even see Ei move with his sharingan, and only reacted to v1 with sharingan precog+speed enhancement from chidori. Until an explanation is given for that, I won't believe otherwise. Far too inconsistent in comparison to his other v2 feats.

Of course Ei > early part 2 Kakashi overall.

 

[Murasame]

The last part of the post wasn't directed at you, but most others in this thread.

And it doesn't match up with his v2 feats. I don't believe it is his v2, or at least not at the same level as the v2 he used vs Sasuke. Sasuke couldn't even see Ei move with his sharingan, and only reacted to v1 with sharingan precog+speed enhancement from chidori. Until an explanation is given for that, I won't believe otherwise. Far too inconsistent in comparison to his other v2 feats.

Of course Ei > early part 2 Kakashi overall.

Alright I'm glad we came to an understanding.. I'd hate to argue against a fanboy who believes Kakashi can win. Thanks for being the understanding type =D

Well if it wasn't V2 Ay would've mentioned it.. he comnpared his speed then to his speed vs Naruto. He didn't say anything about being worse or less experienced in it. If you say this then it discredits Minato's reflexes. I can ask Bogard about this point.. I think he can explain better but oh well I'm not going to argue anymore about it.. since it wasn't the point of our main topic.

 

[EliteKakashi]

Alright I'm glad we came to an understanding.. I'd hate to argue against a fanboy who believes Kakashi can win. Thanks for being the understanding type =D

Well if it wasn't V2 Ay would've mentioned it.. he comnpared his speed then to his speed vs Naruto. He didn't say anything about being worse or less experienced in it. If you say this then it discredits Minato's reflexes. I can ask Bogard about this point.. I think he can explain better but oh well I'm not going to argue anymore about it.. since it wasn't the point of our main topic.

It would be pretty silly of me to debate that. Ei beats pretty much everyone 1v1 that doesn't have some sort of incredible defense(susanoo, Gaara's gigantic sand defenses, etc) if he goes in to v2.

It's not really a discredit to Minato's reflexes..it's actually a discredit to the sharingan's precog abilities if anything(going off the assumption that it was v2 Minato went up against). Minato reacting to v2 would mean that his eyes > the sharingan. And that's just plain incorrect. It's far fetched enough that Minato would be able to see and react to v1 before getting hit, considering it took the sharingan+chidori to pull that off by itself.

 

[iiDarui]

i've been watching this debate for a while and i don't see how he is trolling or trying to piss people off ._. He is correct on his points.. you try to use an outdated databook of kakashi cutting through lightning o_o ay loses in this match up but if it was this version of kakashi alone he'd lose.

thank you !!!!

 

[Murasame]

It would be pretty silly of me to debate that. Ei beats pretty much everyone 1v1 that doesn't have some sort of incredible defense(susanoo, Gaara's gigantic sand defenses, etc) if he goes in to v2.

It's not really a discredit to Minato's reflexes..it's actually a discredit to the sharingan's precog abilities if anything(going off the assumption that it was v2 Minato went up against). Minato reacting to v2 would mean that his eyes > the sharingan. And that's just plain incorrect. It's far fetched enough that Minato would be able to see and react to v1 before getting hit, considering it took the sharingan+chidori to pull that off by itself.

Good point Yeah I always wondered about it but I feel like if i questioned it all the minato fans would swarm me and Bogard would own me on it since that guy is pretty smart... meh I'll stay neutral on it but if what you say was indeed true then people like Sasuke and Itachi have a bigger chance of defeating Minato because of amaterasu.. yeah he has the speed to dodge but the reaction time of his is what counts.

thank you !!!!

You're welcome I didn't like how he had to resort to that as it hasnt been proven to be true.

 

[iiDarui]

Good point Yeah I always wondered about it but I feel like if i questioned it all the minato fans would swarm me and Bogard would own me on it since that guy is pretty smart... meh I'll stay neutral on it but if what you say was indeed true then people like Sasuke and Itachi have a bigger chance of defeating Minato because of amaterasu.. yeah he has the speed to dodge but the reaction time of his is what counts.


You're welcome I didn't like how he had to resort to that as it hasnt been proven to be true.

xD your sig

 

[Murasame]

xD your sig

Yeah it was a pretty foolish statement of his.. this guy is acting to cocky for his own good.. he's been trying to impersonate all the other highly regarded debaters. You can see it here back a few pages when he talks down Community46 as if he is the superior and professional at this.. he still has ways to go if he wants to be as good as the others.

 

[iiDarui]

Yeah it was a pretty foolish statement of his.. this guy is acting to cocky for his own good.. he's been trying to impersonate all the other highly regarded debaters. You can see it here back a few pages when he talks down Community46 as if he is the superior and professional at this.. he still has ways to go if he wants to be as good as the others.

Tht is hella true. Check my sig for another stupid comment.

But yeah. Me and Sasuke had a Shino vs Neji debate yesterday. I let him have it tho. Obviously Shino would win but meh. Alwell

 

[xxSasukEkUnxX]

Tht is hella true. Check my sig for another stupid comment.

But yeah. Me and Sasuke had a Shino vs Neji debate yesterday. I let him have it tho. Obviously Shino would win but meh. Alwell

Quit being mad because you lost. Neji stomps shino.

 

[iiDarui]

Quit being mad because you lost. Neji stomps shino.

I had to let you win ya kno... I'm debating from my cellular device and cannot provide manga scans. Shino wins mid diff. Nuff said on the topic.

 

[xxSasukEkUnxX]

The reasons why there were no manga scans is because you had none. You even mentioned filler attacks multiple time and were completely zoned out from what I was stating. Neji stomps low diff.